ყაბალახიანი აზნაური ქალი – ბათუმის საკრებულოში
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 94
xSirad gvinaxavs Coxa-axaluxSi gamowyobili qarTveli mamuliSvilebi, romlebic am samosiT xazs usvamen TavianT warmomavlobas da amayoben qarTvelobiT, magram darwmunebuli var, scenis garda bevrs aravis Sexvedria tradiciulad Semosili qalbatoni da isic oficiozSi. warmoidgineT, baTumis municipalitetis axali mowvevis sakrebulos wevrTa da damswre sazogadoebis gaoceba, rodesac erT-erTi deputati qalbatoni tradiciuli ekipirebiT, – mosasxamiT, yabalaxiT da grZeli qvedaweliT Senarnarda pirvel sxdomaze. simarTle giTxraT, natalia ZiZigurs, axalgazrda, tankenar, lamaz qals, namdvilad mouxda am tipis tansacmeli, magram ram gadaawyvetina baTumel iurists am nabijis gadadgma da ra surda eTqva Cveni sazogadoebisTvis, amaze da sxva Temebze Tavad saubrobs `aWarasTvis~ mocemul interviuSi.
– qalbatono natalia, daviwyoT imiT, rom marTlac saocari efeqti moaxdineT Tqveni pirvelive gamoCeniT sakrebulos sxdomaTa darbazSi. ratom miiReT tradiciuli samosiT misvlis gadawyvetileba da iqneb isic gviTxraT, istoriulad romeli kuTxis qalebi atarebdnen am models?
– tansacmlis modeli megreli Tavad-aznaurTa qalebis Cacmulobidan aviRe, dedaCemi megrelia da swored amitom. rac Seexeba Cems araordinarul Sesvlas sakrebuloSi, mimaCnia, rom am qmedebiT kidev erTxel gavusvi xazi, rom qarTvelebi, tradiciebis, adaT-wesebis, Cveni lamazi da saamayo warsulis mimdevrebi varT da arasodes viviwyebT `saidan movdivarT~. vfiqrob, dadga dro, gavixsenoT es WeSmariteba da swored oficialur Sekrebebze davafiqsiroT sakuTari principebi, razec bevradaa damokidebuli dRevandeli saqarTvelos TviTmyofadobis gadarCena da Cveni momavali Taobebis swori mimarTulebiT aRzrda. rodesac warvsdeqi Jurnalistebis winaSe, xmamaRla ganvacxade: `me dRes macvia qarTuli samosi yvela im qalis pativsacemad, romelic odiTganve iRvwoda saqarTvelos gadarCenis, aRzevebisa da winsvlisTvis. aWaraSi xom udidesi qalbatonebi gvyavda da gvyavs axlac. amitom, wina Taobebis dawyebuli saqme unda gadmovibaroT, kidev ufro gavZlierdeT da ise viRvawoT qveynisTvis, rom gavxdeT momdevno TaobebisTvis samagaliTo~. SeiZleba Cemi sityvebi paTetikurad mogeCvenoT, magram garwmunebT, absoluturad gulwrfeli var yvelaferSi, rac Cems saqarTvelos da qarTvel xalxs Seexeba.
– sakrebuloSi moxvdiT `qarTuli ocnebis~ siiT, konservatorTa kvotiT. ra posti gikaviaT `konservatiul partiaSi~ da ratom gadawyviteT swored maTTan misvla politikaSi Tavis dasamkvidreblad?
– `konservatiuli partia~ zogadad, Zalian axlosaa Cems xasiaTTan da msoflmxedvelobasTan. mimaCnia, rom enam, sarwmunoebam da tradiciebma gadagvarCina, aqamde mogviyvana. amitomac var darwmunebuli, rom Cveni partiaa is Zala, romelic samSoblos WeSmaritebis gzaze atarebs. ukve wlebia, rac am partiaSi aWaris qalTa sazogadoebis Tavmjdomare var da arasodes daveWvebulvar Cemi Tanapartielebis msoflmxedvelobasa da principebSi.
– rogor daaxasiaTebT Tqvens axal kolegebs?
– gamocdili kadria yvela – poziciidan Tu opoziciidan. TiToeuls Tavisi gza aqvs gavlili da am etapisTvis, mzadaa, Tavisi adgili daikavos qalaqis municipalitetis sakanonmdeblo organoSi. isic minda giTxraT, rom yvela profesionalia. darwmunebuli var, Cveni muSaobiT qalaqs bevrad meti daetyoba, vidre aqamde.
– sakmaod TviTdajerebuli gancxadebaa. ratom fiqrobT ase?
– yvelas sakuTari midgoma, xedva gaaCnia. vici, qalaqSi uamravi problemaa mosagvarebeli, gvinda yvelaferi es uceb gakeTdes, magram sanam praqtikul saqmes daviwyebT, saTanado kanonmdebloba da normatiuli aqtebi unda SemuSavdes, ris safuZvelzec yvelaferi uproblemod mogvardeba. es ki Cveni, sakrebulos wevrebis prerogativaa. swored amitom vusvam xazs Cemi kolegebis profesionalizms, rac imeds maZlevs, rom arc erTi maTgani dauSvebs Secdomas baTumTan da baTumelebTan. cxadia, vgulisxmob sakanonmdeblo saqmianobisTvis Cveul dapirispirebebs, rac samwuxarod, xSirad, politikuri partiebis wvrilman davazea agebuli da azaralebs Cvens moqalaqeebs.
– rogorc iuristi, TvliT Tu ara, rom dRes sasamarTlo Tavisufalia?
– diax, vTvli da Zalian amayi var aseTi mkveTri, sasikeTo cvlilebebiT am marTlac urTules sistemaSi. dRes sasamarTlo Tavisufalia, razec migviTiTebs, Tundac, arCevnebis periodSi gamarTuli araerTi sasamarTlo procesi, romelic xSirad opoziciis gamarTlebiT sruldeboda.
– saakaSvili, amas winaT, saxuravebze rom darboda, sapirispiros acxadebda da Cvens samarTals `erTi kacis~ nebaze agebuls uwodebda, eSinoda daWeris da saqarTveloSi eqstradirebis…
– mrcxvenia Cemi qveynis istoriaSi am furclis, mrcxvenia, rom saakaSvili dafiqsirda, rogorc Cveni qveynis prezidenti. sxvas verafers vityvi am Temaze.
– sul sami qali xarT axali mowvevis sakrebuloSi. migaCniaT, rom es raodenoba sakmarisia?
– qali udavod meti unda iyos rogorc sakrebuloSi, ise mmarTvel organoebSi, magram Cvens realobaSi ase ar xdeba.
– ra migaCniaT amis mTavar mizezad?
– yvela xom erTnairad ar cxovrobs. umravlesobas miaCnia – ojaxSi triali, bavSvebis aRzrda da sxva am saxis datvirTva ufro metad Seefereba. mivesalmebi diasaxlisebs, im adamianebs, romlebic marTlac TavauReblad Sromoben da iRvwian sakuTari qmar-Svilis keTildReobisaTvis, maTTvis simyudrovis, Tbili keris Sesaqmnelad, magram yvelam TavisiT unda airCios es gza. Cven, sazogado asparezze gamosuli qalebi, am mxriv ormagad vitvirTebiT, magram albaT, ase varCevT. ar vici, ra giTxraT mizezad. yvelas Tavisi axsna-ganmarteba aqvs am sakiTxze, miT umetes, rom mimaCnia – qali arasodes daCagrula Cvens qveyanaSi. igia ojaxis fuZe, Cveni identobis, qarTuli genis matarebeli. rodesac moisurvebda, qarTvel qals aravin uSlida sazogadoebriv asparezze gamosvlas da karieris gakeTebas. amis uamravi magaliTi gvaqvs, jer kidev istoriuli wyaroebidan.
– rogori unda iyos qali, rom movides da fesvebi gaidgas qarTul politikaSi?
– upirvelesad, amis survili da SesaZlebloba unda gaaCndes. Tanac, cxadia, unda iyos Tavisi saqmis profesionali, ganaTlebuli, avtoritetuli. politikaSi mosasvlelad, cxadia, man etapebi unda gaiaros, sakuTar TavSi iyos darwmunebuli da rac mTavaria – uyvardes adamiani.
– politikaSi mosuli yvela mamakaci aseTia?
– es ar aris Cemi gansasjeli, Tumca, isic faqtia, rom Zalian Zlieri unda viyoT qali-politikosebi, radganac rogorc ki aRmovCndebiT sazogadoebis yuradRebis centrSi, mamakacebis mxardamxar, ufro mets iTxoven Cvengan _ igive codnas, avtoritets, principulobas, gamocdilebas da a.S.
– mainc riT gansxvavdeba qali politikosi mamakacisgan?
– qali ufro sensitiuria, gulTan axlos miaqvs nebismieri problema. siyvaruli SeuZlia. roca, maRal postze xar, Tu adamiani ar giyvars, moyvass ar afaseb, ver SeZleb gamoadge sazogadoebas, igive Sens qalaqs, Sens Tanaqalaqelebs.
– rogorc `konservatiuli partiis~ warmomadgenels, xom ar gzRudaven mmarTveli partiis gundis wevrebi?
– sruli Tavisufleba gvaqvs. aravin gvzRudavs, Tanasworuflebiani urTierTobebia Camoyalibebuli. nebismieris azrs ismenen da iTvaliswineben.
– mamakacebi xom ar gCagraven?
– ara, ras ambobT, piriqiT, yuradRebiT gvekidebian. Cans, rom am kuTxiT TanamSromloba orive mxarisTvis sasikeToa. Cven vswavlobT maTgan da isini – Cvengan. kargi gundi Seikra.
– baTumi da – Tqven, rogor aRiqvamT mas axla, roca qalaqis mmarTvelTa Soris moxvdiT?
– baTumi uzomod miyvars, Cemi qalaqia da swored amitom davTanxmdi am SemoTavazebas. iciT ra, siyvaruli mxolod lamazi sityvebi da diTirambebi ar aris. elementarulad, rodesac amovardnil qvafenils xedav da ginda gaasworo, an gabzaruli kedlis SekeTebas rom moindomeb, yvavilebs rom ar gadaTelav skverSi da xes tots ar moatex, es aris Sens qalaqze zrunva da misi siyvaruli. unda moZebno yovelive amis gamosworebis saSualeba da mixvide iq, sadac SeZleb realuris keTebas, ra Tqma unda, sakuTari kompetenciis farglebSi…
– xSirad adareben Zvel da axal baTums, Tqven romeli ufro mogwonT?
– dro icvleba, progress moaqvs saxecvlilebebi, magram qalaqi unda ganviTardes gegmazomierad, logikurad, adamianis faqtoris, misi janmrTelobis da komfortis gaTvaliswinebiT. qaosuri mSeneblobebis bumiT ar unda davarRvioT ekologia, ar unda davzaraldeT.
– ojaxSi Zaladobis Tema isev iwevs wina planze, Tumca, dRes ufro daculia qalis uflebebi kodeqsiT, vidre aqamde. rogor fiqrobT, ra unda gakeTdes am problemis Zireulad aRmosafxvrelad?
– mxolod kodeqsi ver Svelis ojaxSi agorebul usiamovnebas, romelic TandaTan ZaladobaSi gadaizrdeba da zogjer letaluri dasasruli aqvs erT-erTi meuRlisTvis. ar vici, ra unda vTqva am situaciaSi, mxolod is mesmis kargad, rom arc erT SemTxvevaSi ar unda CaverioT ojaxSi uxeSad, aucilebelia davicvaT garkveuli distancia da gamoviCinoT taqti. anu gavataroT saTanado RonisZiebebi, magram frTxilad, mozomilad. kanonic aseve mozomilad unda CavrToT, raTa arc erTi mxare ar davazianoT. ar unda daviviwyoT, rom maT Soris bavSvebia da swored aqedan daviwyoT moqmedeba. yvela es problema Zireulad aRmoifxvreba, rogorc ki amaRldeba sazogadoebis TviTSegneba da qalis roli wamoiwevs wina planze. tardeba uamravi trening-seminari am Temaze, magram Tavad qalmac unda daicvas sakuTari uflebebi. Tu gareT ver gamodis, internetis meSveobiT mainc gaecnos, risi ufleba gaaCnia da sad unda mivides ukiduresi gaWirvebisas, vgulisxmob, qmris mier uxeSi Zalis gamoyenebas. sxvaTa Soris, rogorc ki gadawydeba am kuTxiT rigi problema, qalebs miecemaT TviTgamoxatvis, TviTrealizaciis meti saSualeba da ufro iaqtiureben sazogadoebaSi Tu politikaSi. aqve minda aRvniSno, rom aris TavSesafari qalebisTvis, sadac SeuZliaT misvla, Tuki saxlSi gausaZlisi mdgomareoba SeeqmnebaT. 24 saaTis ganmavlobaSi funqcionirebs cxeli xazi.
– ra migaCniaT Tanamedrove dedebis yvelaze did naklad?
– Zalian arian mijaWvulebi internets – maTi mibaZviT, igives akeTeben patarebic da internet-damokidebuleba uyalibdebaT, ris gamoc Semdeg fsiqologebis Careva xdeba saWiro. aucilebelia, deda iyos wignieri, misdios jansaRi cxovrebis wess da CarTos amaSi Tavisi Svilebic, raTa saqarTvelos jansaRi momavali Taoba gauzardos.
– bevrs aqvs umuSevrobis problema…
– diax, es asea da minda vTqva, rom Cveni xelisufleba bevrs akeTebs am kuTxiT. axali mowvevis sakrebulosac gaaCnia rigi proeqti, romlis warmatebiT ganxorcieleba realur Sedegs moitans. TandaTan dalagdeba cxovreba, magram Cven gvinda yvelaferi xelis erTi dakvriT mogvardes, rac ar xdeba. saWiroa Tavad gamoviCinoT saxelmwifoebrivi cnobiereba, Sromisunarianoba, profesionalizmi. jer sakuTar Tavze vimuSaoT da Semdeg moviTxovoT saxelmwifosgan daxmareba. darwmunebuli var, kargi specialisti yovelTvis naxavs samuSaosac da kargi anazRaurebac eqneba.
– galamazebuli fasadebis miRma gvengreva Zveli baTumi. Tu aris saubari am Temaze?
– jer ara, magram vfiqrob, iqneba. am kiTxvis Semdeg kidev erTxel davrwmundi, rom marTlac aucilebelia masmediasTan TanamSromloba, raTa aRmovaCinoT is sferoebi, sadac Cveni uSualo daxmarebaa saWiro. piradad me ki bednieri viqnebi, Tu patara wvlils mainc Sevitan Cemi baTumis aRmSeneblobis saqmeSi… damdeg axal wels gilocav, saqarTvelo!
