,, გულწრფელად გეტყვით, ამბიციური ადამიანი არ ვარ”
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2018 wels Cveni gazeTis pirveli stumari aWaris jandacvis ministris moadgile ramaz jinWaraZea. Tamamad SeiZleba iTqvas, igi gulwrfeli respondenti aRmoCnda, amasTan, yvela kiTxvas siamovnebiT upasuxa. vinc baton ramazs icnobs, dameTanxmeba, rom igi erTi kargi
baTumelia, romelmac Tavisi profesionalizmiTa da pirovnuli TvisebebiT sazogadoebis pativiscema da siyvaruli daimsaxura
marTalia, Suaxevis raionSi daibada 1970 wels, magram misi mSoblebi im periodSi ukve baTumSi cxovrobdnen da aq gaizarda. damTavrebuli aqvs baTumis #1 saSualo skola, Semdeg – Tbilisis maSindeli sasoflo-sameurneo instituti.
– 1994 wlidan muSaoba maSindel ministrTa sabWoSi daviwye – devnilTa ganyofilebaSi. mogvianebiT ganyofileba ltolvilTa da gansaxlebis saministrod gadakeTda, sadac kadrebis ganyofilebis mTavar specialistad vimuSave. paralelurad Tbilisis Sromisa da warmoebis organizaciis saxelmwifo samecniero-saswavlo institutSi Cavabare da sameurneo samarTlis iurist-ekonomistis profesias daveufle. 2005 wels ltolvilTa da gansaxlebis saministro jandacvis saministros SeuerTda. mec ekomigraciis ganyofilebis mTavari specialitis pozicia Cavibare. 2008 wels devnilTa da gansaxlebis departamentis xelmZRvanelad daviniSne, 2009 wlidan ki jandacvis ministris moadgile var. rac Seexeba Cems ojaxs, samwuxarod, mama gardacvlili myavs, mis gaxsenebaze cremls ver vikaveb, erTaderTi adamiani iyo, romelic sul gverdiT medga. Ddeda, sabednierod, Cven gverdiTaa da minda didxans myavdes janmrTeli. myavs erTi daiko (mas Tavisi ojaxi aqvs), meuRle da qaliSvili, romelic iuristia da erT-erT kerZo kompaniaSi muSaobs.
– Seicvala xelisufleba, Seicvalnen jandacvis ministrebi, Tumca Tqven wlebia, moadgilis posts inarCunebT. naTqvamia, iseT jariskacs ra vuTxari, generlobaze rom ar ocnebobso… ar gifiqriaT, ufro maRal poziciaze gadasuliyaviT?
– gulwrfelad getyviT, rom ambiciuri adamiani ar var. specialistic ki ministris moadgilis doneze vasrulebdi Cems saqmes, magram moadgileoba sxva pasuxismgeblobaa. uSecdomo aravinaa, miT ufro is, vinc saqmes akeTebs. albaT, am wlebis ganmavlobaSi mec mqonia Secdomebi, ufro uneblie, vidre gamiznuli. iseT sferoSi vmuSaob, sadac bevri problemaa rogorc devnilTa, ise ekomigrantTa kuTxiT. socialurad daucveli ojaxebi Cems sakuratoro mimarTulebas ar ganekuTvneba, magram bevr aseT ojaxTanac mqonia Sexeba. erTaderTi, rasac maTTvis vakeTeb, es aris swori rCeva, gzis Cveneba, Tu rogor SeiZleba kanonierad miiRon is, rac saxelmwifosgan ekuTvniT. urTulesi periodi gamoviareT, Tavadac TqviT, rom araerT ministrTan momiwia muSaoba. albaT, Znelia sakuTar Tavze isaubro, magram gverdiT dgoma SemiZlia da Ralati ar mCvevia. didi madloba im adamianebs, visTan erTadac momiwia muSaoba. veravin ityvis, ramazs Tavisi saqme gulianad ar gaukeTebiao. 24-saaTian reJimSi SemiZlia vimuSao da saqme vakeTo. amdenad, rigiTi jariskaci var da generlobaze ar vocnebob.
– Tavadve TqviT, rom uSecdomo aravin aris. dRevandeli gadasaxedidan ras ityviT, ra Secdoma gaqvT daSvebuli cxovrebaSi?
– muSaoba rom daviwye, ukve gavlili iyo is periodi, rac devnilebTan dakavSirebiT moxda aWaraSi – gamosaxlebebs vgulisxmob. Zaladoba is meTodia, romelic arasdros amarTlebs. xalxisTvis, romelmac omi gadaitana, mizeruli Tanxis damateba ar unda dananebodaT, maT sacxovrebelis SeZena rom moexerxebinaT. arc erTi devnili ar iyo winaaRmdegi `medea~ da `mesxeTi~ daetovebina da maT nacvlad ukeTesi Senoba aSenebuliyo. albaT, maSin visac uSualod exeboda, gulTan bolomde ar miitana devnilTa problema, an ar gaaanalizes, rom cotaodeni Tanxis damateba sakmarisi iqneboda, ar momxdariyo is, rac moxda da xalxisTvis tkivilze tkivili ar daematebinaT. arasdros daaviwydebaT arc imaT, arc baTumelebs, me da Cems TanamSromlebs is dReebi, roca adamianebi Zalis gamoyenebiT gamoasaxles sastumroebidan. devnilebTan erTad wlebia movdivar, bevrTan axlo, megobruli urTierToba maqvs, SeiZleba iTqvas, maT xelSi gavizarde. dialogis, xalxTan misvlis arasdros unda SegeSindes, rac ar unda mtkivneul Temas exebodes. unda auxsna, ra ukeTesi iqneba maTTvis. roca problemebis mqone adamianebs vxvdebi, maT adgilze sakuTar Tavs warmovidgen…
– erTxel erT-erT satelevizio gadacemaSi gnaxeT Tvalcremliani, `ocnebis qalaqis~ problemebze sasaubrod iyaviT studiaSi miwveuli… sxvaTa Soris, TviTneburad SeWrilebTanac midixarT xolme… rogor fiqrobT, SesaZlebelia am problemis umtkivneulod gadaWra?
– marTlac mtkivneuli sakiTxia `ocnebis qalaqi~, winasaaxalwlodac vestumreT iq mcxovreb patarebs da SeZlebisdagvarad gavaxareT. regionis mTavrobis Tavmjdomare batoni zurab pataraZe da misi meuRle qalbatoni sofio did gulisxmierebas iCenen. qalbatoni sofio araerTxel imyofeboda maTTan. rogorc sajaro moxele, vityvi, rom `ocnebis qalaqi~ wlebis win daSvebuli Secdomaa. vfiqrob, roca teritoria saxelmwifos kuTvnilebaa, ra Tanxadac ar unda dagijdes, unda daicva. aravin unda waaxaliso, Zaladobrivi gziT saxelmwifos kuTvnil teritoriaze SeiWras. movlenebs ar davaswreb, magram getyviT, rom `ocnebis qalaqTan~ mimarTebaSi seriozuli muSaoba midis.
– sad SexvdiT axal wels?
– wels pirvelad axal wels eras moedanze, SvilTan erTad Sevxvdi.
– rogori iyo 2017 da ras elodebiT axali wlisgan?
– didi molodini maqvs, amboben, morielebis da ZaRlis weliao (icinis). mec noemberSi var dabadebuli. mTavari janmrTeloba, ojaxis wevrebis da axloblebis kargad yofnaa. 2017 wels iyo sixarulic da tkivilic. `leograndis~ tragediam yvela sasixarulo movlena gadafara. 2017 wels 115 ekomigrant ojaxs sacxovrebeli SevuZineT, aseve municipalitetebSi agebul saxlebSi ekomigrantebs sacxovrebeli farTebi gadaveciT. devnilebisTvis binebis ganawilebas saqarTvelos devnilTa da gansaxlebis saministro uzrunvelyofs da momaval wels tabiZis quCaze 164 devnili ojaxisTvis saxlis mSenebloba dasruldeba. zurab pataraZis ZalisxmeviT wablanis mosaxleobisTvis socialuri saxlis mSenebloba ganaxlda da am etapze Sidasaremonto samuSaoebi mimdinareobs. cudi weli ar iyo namdvilad…
– batono ramaz, bavSvobaSi Tovlis babuis arsebobis gjerodaT?
– Tovlis babuis arsebobis yovelTvis mjeroda da Sinaganad axlac minda, mjerodes. dResac patara bavSviviT vuyureb xolme Tovlis babuas.
– mekvled Tu gepatiJebian?
– ki, xSirad mepatiJebian naTesavebi, axloblebi, megobrebi. SeZlebisdagvarad vcdilob, yvelasTan mivide keTili ganwyobiT da saukeTeso vusurvo.
– xSirad uhalstuxod xarT. ar giyvarT misi tareba? xom ar gaxsovT, pirvelad rodis gaikeTeT halstuxi?
– pirvelad pasportis suraTisTvis gavikeTe. zogadad, momwons, mamakaci halstuxs rom atarebs, magram me ver SeveCvie, albaT, Cemi grafikidan gamomdinare… arc halstuxebis koleqcia maqvs, marTalia, mCuqnian kidec, magram mec miyvars gaCuqeba.
– ra ginaniaT cxovrebaSi?
– albaT – araferi.
– qarTul sufrasTan rogori damokidebuleba gaqvT?
– Zalian seriozuli – miyvars qeific da molxenac, Tamadobac, magram ufro mosmena, im dromde, vidre baxusi mova, mere ki… Tu SeiZleba erTs vityvi… (icinis).
– da ra aris is erTi, rasac ambobT xolme?
– samSoblos sadRegrZelo. miyvars saqarTvelo da Cemi mSobliuri kuTxe. Tu Cems samSoblos dasWirdeba, yvelaferze waval…
– Tavisufal dros ras akeTebT?
– ojaxTan erTad vatareb, gansakuTrebiT dedasTan saubari miyvars.
– rogori meuRle xarT? raSi exmarebiT mas an risi keTeba SegiZliaT samzareuloSi?
– saerTod araferi gamomdis samzareuloSi, albaT, es imis bralia, rom meuRles yvelaferi exerxeba (icinis). Tu metyvis, rom rameSi Cemi daxmareba unda, davexmarebi, sakuTari iniciativiT arafers vakeTeb, radgan mainc ar gamomiva.
– mSvidi CanxarT. ram SeiZleba wyobidan gamogiyvanoT?
– bunebiT marTlac mSvidi var, Ralati, tyuili ar miyvars. albaT, cudic ki aris, ar SemiZlia adamians vuTxra, rom tyuilSi an RalatSi SevamCnie. amiT ufro sakuTar Tavs vvneb.
– rogori gaxsovT Tqveni bavSvobisdroindeli baTumi?
– Zalian lamazi iyo, vseirnobdiT maSindel `pionerTa parkSi~, bulvarSi, botanikur baRSi, `leningoraze~. marTlac kargi bavSvoba mqonda, sportis TiTqmis yvela saxeobaze davdiodi. mamas sportiT da swavliT datvirTuli vyavdi, mkacr `kontrolze~ ayvanili. ise, wynari da mSvidi bavSvi viyavi.
– nadiroba an Tevzaoba Tu giyvarT?
– arc nadiroba miyvars da arc Tevzaoba. Aamboben, Tevzaoba nervebs amSvidebso, magram ar SemiZlia saaTobiT velodo, rodis miva Tevzi ankesTan (icinis), Tumca nanadirevs da Tevzs siamovnebiT mivirTmev.
– ojaxi ras niSnavs TqvenTvis?
– ojaxi CemTvis yvelaferia, rac ojaxSi xar, xar mis gareTac. Tu ojaxi giyvars, yvelas da yvelafris siyvaruls SeZleb.
– Tanamdebobam megobrebi xom ar dagaviwyaT?
– sabednierod, bavSvobisdroindeli megobrebi dRemde momyvebian da arc arasdros damviwyebia isini. klaselebidan bevri warmatebuli biznesmenia. Cems ubnelebTan yofnac Zalian miyvars.
– romeli ubneli xarT?
– gavizarde marqsisa da WavWavaZis quCebis kveTaSi – `Waobis~ dasawyisSi. ufro metad `Waobeli~ var, radgan am ubans da qalaqs erT dros rkinigzis sadguri yofda.
– rogoria Tqveni TvaliT danaxuli dRevandeli baTumi?
– qalaqi dRiTi dRe Sendeba da mSvendeba, bevri ram keTdeba. TiToeuli axali mSeneblobis dawyeba patara bavSviviT mixaria da msiamovnebs. pirovnuladac aseTi var – yvela adamianis warmateba mixaria...
– ras TvliT sakuTar naklad?
– zedmetad mimndobi var, bevr adamians vendobi…
– saaxalwlo nomrisTvis kuriozs xom ar gaixsenebT?
– 31 dekembers, SuadRisas, megobari mirekavs da meubneba, minda Cemi Svili Ramis 12 saaTis mere daibadoso. sad xar-meTqi, vkiTxe. klinikaSio, mipasuxa, iqneb eqims sTxovo da rogorme es saqme momigvaroso. telefoni eqims gadasca, mec didis ambiT `vTxove~ eqims, Cems megobars uars nu etyviT da iqneb misi Svili im dros daibados, roca mas unda-meTqi. aseTi ram ar SeiZleba, ramaz, – mTeli seriozulobiT mipasuxa eqimma. bunebrivia, mec kargad vicodi, magram megobars Txovnaze uari ver vuTxari (icinis). bavSvi 2017 wels daibada…
– dabolos, ras isurvebT am axal wels?
– Cemi samSoblos gaerTianebas. winsvlas, warmatebas vusurveb TiToeul qarTvels. Cven imdeni ram gadavitaneT, saukeTesos Rirsebi varT. cotani varT da erTmaneTs moveferoT. TanadgomiT, urTierTpativiscemiT, swori saxelmwifo politikiT bevri ramis miRweva SeiZleba, maT Soris – nanatri gamTlianebuli samSoblosic.
