,, ამ საკითხის პოლიტიკურ ჭრილში განხილვა არ არის მართებული”
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xmauri baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTlos Tavmjdomaris
daviT mamiseiSvilisa da mosamarTle irakli SavaZis irgvliv isev grZeldeba. maT iusticiis umaRles sabWoSi 2 marts mousmines, Tumca uSedegod, radgan sabWos gadawyvetileba ar miuRia
mosamarTle irakli SavaZe daviT mamiseiSvils zewolaSi, samsaxurebrivi uflebamosilebis gadametebasa da borotad gamoyenebaSi adanaSaulebs. baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTlos Tavmjdomare ki mosamarTlis braldebebs absurduls uwodebs da kategoriulad uaryofs raime tipis zewolas.
irakli SavaZe iusticiis umaRlesi sabWosadmi ukmayofilebas ar malavs da ambobs, rom man is kriteriumebi daakmayofila, rac uvado mosamarTled gamwesebisTvis iyo dadgenili. sabWos uars ki daviT mamiseiSvils ukavSirebs. iusticiis umaRlesi sabWos wevrebma irakli SavaZes gasaubrebis oqmis gasajaroebisken mouwodes, risi winaaRmdegi arc Tavad mosamarTlea, Tumca erTi pirobiT – gasajarovdes uvadod gamwesebis sxva msurvelebTan gasaubrebis oqmebic.
rac Seexeba baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTlos Tavmjdomares, irakli SavaZis braldebebs igi sicruis tiraJirebas uwodebs. daviT mamiseiSvili arasamTavrobo organizaciebisgan da mosamarTle irakli SavaZisgan dezinformaciis gavrcelebisTvis bodiSis moxdas iTxovs.
iusticiis umaRlesi sabWos wevrebma gadawyvites, damatebiTi informaciis misaRebad da detalebis gasarkvevad baTumSi Camovidnen da saqalaqo sasamarTlos mosamarTleebs gaesaubron.
am dromde ucnobia, daiwyeba Tu ara disciplinuri samarTalwarmoeba irakli SavaZis an daviT mamiseiSvilis winaaRmdeg. arasamTavrobo organizaciebis warmomadgenlebis erTi nawili ki, vinc Sexvedras eswreboda, gamoZiebis dawyebas moiTxovs. irakli SavaZe sarCels amzadebs da sakuTar interesebs sasamarTloSi daicavs.
cnobilia isic, rom baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTlos Tavmjdomares daviT mamiseiSvils mxars amave sasamarTlos mosamarTleebi uWeren, romlebmac mxardaWera gancxadebiT gamoxates. irakli SavaZes ki advokatTa korpusi ucxadebs ndobas. kolegebs mis keTilsindisierebasa da kvalificiurobaSi eWvi ar SeaqvT.
`fici mwams, bolo makvirvebs~ – ase gamoexmaura iusticiis umaRles sabWoSi mamiseiSvili-SavaZis Sexvedras advokati ramin papiZe, romelic am dReebSi gansakuTrebuli aqtiurobiT gamoirCeoda socialur qselSi… da ara mxolod. mosamarTleebs Soris urTierTdapirispirebaze advokatma `aWarasTan~ isaubra. ramin papiZe ambobs, rom baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTlos irgvliv atexili xmauri politikur WrilSi ar unda ganixilon, radgan es ar aris politikuri dapirispireba.
– isini ar arian politikosebi da am sakiTxis politikur WrilSi ganxilva ar aris marTebuli. dapirispireba gamowveulia batoni mamiseiSvilis mxridan SesaZlo samsaxurebrivi uflebamosilebis gadametebiT. mas ar surda, batoni SavaZe daniSnuliyo uvadod da amas iusticiis umaRlesi sabWos zogierT wevrTan axlo megobruli urTierTobebiT miaRwia, – acxadebs advokati, romelsac sasamarTlo sistemaze Tavisi Sexeduleba aqvs. fiqrobs, rom sasamarTlo xelisufleba uzurpirebuli aqvs saakaSvilis reJimis mier daniSnul mafiozur klanur gunds – levan TevzaZes, levan murusiZes, mixeil CinCalaZes da a.S. mosamarTled ver dainiSneba am klanisaTvis miuRebeli sxva piri.
– batono ramin, ramdenad marTebulia sazogadoebis didi nawilis protesti iusticiis umaRles sabWoSi `nacionaluri moZraobis~ xelisuflebisdroindeli gaxmaurebuli saqmeebis mosamarTleTa saqmianobasTan dakavSirebiT?
– absoluturad samarTliania. maT Rirseba rom hqonodaT, SeeZloT, bevr saqmeze mieRoT obieqturi gadawyvetilebebi. isini atarebdnen adeiSvilis da saakaSvilis SekveTil mkacr, agresiul, araobieqtur, araadamianur da arasamarTlian principebze dafuZnebul sisxlis samarTlis politikas.
– sakuTari simarTlis damtkicebas cdiloben rogorc SavaZe, ise mamiseiSvili. rogor fiqrobT, vis mxaresaa simarTle?
– simarTle irakli SavaZis mxares aris. amis Tqmis safuZvels maZlevs Tundac daviT mamiseiSvilis aRiareba, rom ori wlis ganmavlobaSi masTan ar gaaCnda komunikacia konkretul sakiTxebze SeuTanxmeblobis gamo. saqalaqo sasamarTlos Tavmjdomaris argumenti komunikaciis Sewyvetis mizezebTan dakavSirebiT – sasaciloa. is ar aris winaswarmetyvelebis niWiT dajildoebuli, rom ganeWvrita, ori wlis Semdeg ras daabralebda irakli SavaZe. daviT mamiseiSvilis am argumentSi erTi ram damafiqrebeli da yuradsaRebia – Tuki man winaswar icoda, rom batoni SavaZis uvado mosamarTled daniSvnaSi SeeZlo xelis SeSla, bunebrivia, amis `winaswarmetyvelebis~ safuZveli hqonia, rac gansakuTrebul unarTan namdvilad ar aris dakavSirebuli. man, ubralod, winaswar icoda, rom irakli SavaZe uvadod mosamarTled dauniSnaobas aucileblad mas daukavSirebda.
– ramdenime dRis win iusticiis umaRlesma sabWom dapirispirebul mosamarTleebs mousmina. rogor SeafasebT am Sexvedras?
– es iyo formaloba. Sexvedris mizani irakli SavaZis personis maqsimaluri diskreditacia iyo, Tumca mcdeloba uSedegod dasrulda.
– daviT mamiseiSvili irakli SavaZesTan gasaubrebis oqmis gasajaroebas iTxovs. rogor fiqrobT, samarTliani iqneba mxolod erT mosamarTlesTan gasaubrebis oqmis gasajaroeba, Tu amas gadawyvets sabWo?
– aucileblad unda gasajarovdes rogorc irakli SavaZesTan, aseve konkursSi monawile yvela uvado mosamarTled gamwesebis msurvel kandidatTan gasaubrebis oqmi. aseve, aucileblad mimaCnia gasajarovdes rogorc daviT mamiseiSvilTan, ise iusticiis sabWos im wevrebTan gasaubrebis oqmebic, romlebic uvadod dainiSnnen. amiT gamoCndeba, vis ra sirTulis kiTxvebi dausves, dausves Tu ara, saerTod, kiTxvebi samarTlebriv sakiTxebze, ra moculobiT da a.S.
– irakli SavaZe gasaubrebis oqmis gasajaroebis momxrea, Tu sxva mosamarTleebTan gasaubrebis oqmebic gasajarovdeba. iqneba amisTvis sabWo mzad?
– iusticiis umaRlesi sabWo amas ar dasTanxmdeba, vinaidan gamoCndeba mosamarTleobis msurveli calkeuli kandidatebis mimarT sabWos wevrebis mikerZoebuli damokidebuleba da zogadad, maT qmedebebSi sisxlis samarTlis danaSaulis niSnebi.
– batono ramin, irakli SavaZisadmi Tqveni Ria mxardaWera aramxolod socialur qselSi, sasamarTlos Tavmjdomarem Tqven Soris megobruli kavSiriT axsna…
– Cemi postis gamo iusticiis umaRlesi sabWos sxdomaze mosamarTle SavaZisadmi pretenziebis wamoyeneba araadekvaturi da aralogikuri iyo. imis xazgasma, rom batoni SavaZe Cemi megobaria, ra mizans emsaxureba? iraklisTan iseTive megobruli damokidebuleba maqvs, rogoric bevr Cem kolegasTan, anu araferi gansakuTrebuli urTierToba masTan ar maqvs. am SemTxvevaSi megobroba an keTilganwyoba ki ar aris mTavari, aramed is, rom problemas vxedav sasamarTlo xelisuflebaSi. wesier da profesional adamianebs sdevnis batoni mamiseiSvilis samegobro, sanaTesao da maTTvis sando adamianebs niSnaven mosamarTleebad. ramdenia irakli SavaZeze metad keTilsindisieri da kompetenturi maT rigebSi, daTvalon. zizRiT da boRmiT ar unda icxovros adamianma. piradi wyena, met-naklebad, yvela adamians axasiaTebs, rac Zalian cudi Tvisebaa, magram amasac xom unda hqondes sazRvari? SeiZleba `mtrad~ moekido adamians imis gamo, rom Sen is ar mogwons?! batonma daviTma warmoidginos sakuTari Tavi irakli SavaZis adgilze, misTvis rom msgavsi ram vinmes gaekeTebina, ra mdgomareobaSi iqneboda. irakli SavaZes rom daviT mamiseiSvilisTvis msgavsi gaekeTebina, mamiseiSvilis interesebs davicavdi, radgan ase gavizarde da am moraliT vcxovrob. imaSic darwmunebuli var, rom irakli SavaZe tyuilze ar daificebda, miT umetes, oblad gazrdil Svils. Cemi megobari ki simarTle, siyvaruli da sikeTea….
– dabolos, baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTloSi mimdinare procesebi rogor aisaxeba sasamarTlos imijze?
– uaryofiTad. mimaCnia, rom daviT mamiseiSvils, vidre gamoZieba ar daiwyeba da dasruldeba, samosamarTlo uflebamosileba unda SeuCerdes.
advokat ramin papiZisgan gansxvavebiT, daviT mamiseiSvilsa da irakli SavaZesTan dapirispirebas politikur WrilSi ganixilavs politologi aslan lorTqifaniZe.
– 2003-2012 wlebSi saakaSvilma da adeiSvilma iusticiis skolaSi moamzades kvalificiuri iuristebi sasamarTlo sistemisTvis, aseve uxmes maRali kvalifikaciis iuristebs prokuraturaSic. mosamarTleebi Camoayalibes rogorc prokuraturis kvalificiuri `notariusebi~ da am xnis ganmavlobaSi isini emsaxurebodnen reJims da ara sazogadoebas, samarTals. kanonmdeblobac amgvari sistemis formirebas xels uwyobda. mamiseiSvili am sistemis nawili iyo. mas 2013 wlamde arc erTi gamamarTlebeli ganaCeni ar gamoutania. aravin ambobs, rom mxolod gamamarTlebeli ganaCenebiT izomeba mosamarTlis keTilsindisiereba, magram rogor davijeroT, rom wlebis ganmavlobaSi yvela saqmeSi prokuratura iyo marTali. es SeuZlebelia, rasac mowmobs is faqti, rom mamiseiSvilma 2013 wlidan daiwyo gamamarTlebeli ganaCenebis gamotana 2010 wels miRebuli sisxlis samarTlis saproceso kodeqsis safuZvelze anu man daiwyo prokuraturis notariusis funqciebidan samosamarTleo funqciebis Sesruleba. Secvlili realoba mas amis saSualebas aZlevs.
– batono aslan, ra mdgomareobaa dRes sasamarTlo sistemaSi?
– 2013 wels axalma xelisuflebam memkvidreobiT miiRo imgvari marTlmsajuleba, romelzec zemoT mogaxseneT. yvelas gvqonda molodini, rom daiwyeboda am sistemis demontaJi. xelisufleba moerida sistemaSi ryevebs, romelic gamoiwvevda saerTaSoriso sazogadoebis negatiur reaqcias. amitom gadawyvita sistemis reformireba arsebuli mosamarTleebis Seucvlelad (an etapobrivad Canacvlebis gziT). miiRo kanonmdeblobaSi cvlilebebi, riTac sakadro gadawyvetilebebis miReba didwilad mosamarTleTa konferencias miando, romelSic umravlesobas adeiSvilis kadrebi Seadgenen. Sedegad miviReT saxecvlili CinCalaZe, murusiZe da mamiseiSvili. isini sistemis msxverplad gamocxaddnen, `koleqtiuri murusiZeebi~ Seecadnen samosamarTleo funqciebis SesrulebiT mosamarTlis mantiis garecxvas. dRes Cvens sasamarTlo sistemaSi aRar ereva xelisufleba, Tumca mosamarTleTa korpusis umravlesoba Sedgeba im mosamarTleebisagan, romlebic sazogadoebis did nawilSi diskreditirebulebi arian TavianTi warsuli saqmianobis gamo. mosamarTleTa am Semadgenlobam, isargebla ra xelisuflebis CaurevlobiT, Seqmna monoliTuri erTianoba da didwilad Caketa sistema keTilsindisieri iuristebisaTvis. mosamarTle SavaZe an unda gamxdariyo am sistemis nawili, an mas sistema gariyavda da asec moxda.
– sazogadoebis didi nawili iusticiis umaRles sabWoSi `nacionaluri moZraobis~ xelisuflebis periodSi gaxmaurebuli saqmeebis mosamarTleTa saqmianobas aprotestebs. ramdenad samarTliania es?
– iusticiis umaRlesi sabWo 15 wevrisgan Sedgeba. maTgan 8 mosamarTle wevrs anu umravlesobas irCevs mosamarTleTa konferencia. 1 aramosamarTle wevrs prezidenti niSnavs, xolo 5-s parlamenti irCevs, maTgan erTi, Tu ar vcdebi, saparlamento opoziciis kandidatia. me-15 wevri uzenaesi sasamarTlos Tavmjdomarea.
`ZaRlis Tavi~ swored iusticiis sabWos dakompleqtebis wesSia damarxuli. mosamarTleTa konferenciaze arCeuli rvave mosamarTle wevri, modiT, pirdapir vTqvaT, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ mxardamWeria, mas emateba 1, savaraudod, `nacmoZraobis~ mier SerCeuli aramosamarTle wevric, rac imas niSnavs, rom iusticiis sabWos 15 wevridan 9 adeiSvilis `notariusTa biurodanaa~ (mosamarTle irakli SavaZis uvadod ganmwesebas swored am 9 wevrma ar dauWira mxari). iusticiis sabWo, Tavis mxriv, axdens mosamarTleTa ganmwesebas, am gadawyvetilebis miRebas ki 2/3-is anu 10 wevris Tanxmoba sWirdeba, ris gamoc karga xnis ganmavlobaSi ver xerxdeboda mosamarTleTa daniSvna adeiSvilis 8 notariusi (mapatieT, magram maT mosamarTleebs ver vuwodeb) mxars ar uWerda aramosamarTle wevrebis kandidatebs, iseve, rogorc – piriqiT. amitom iusticiis sabWoSi daiwyo garigebebiT (SeTanxmebebiT) mosamarTleebis ganmweseba – daaxloebiT naxevars adeiSvilis jgufi niSnavs, xolo meore naxevars – gvenetaZis jgufi. Tavis droze irakli SavaZis mosamarTled daniSvnas murusiZis jgufma mxari imitom dauWira, rom am mxardaWeris sanacvlod maT, maTi kandidatis mosamarTled ganmwesebaze Tanxmoba miiRes. amdenad, sazogadoebis didi nawilis protesti umaRlesi sabWos e.w. mosamarTle wevrebis mimarT aris samarTliani.
– SavaZe-mamiseiSvilis dapirispirebaSi, rogor fiqrobT, vis mxaresaa simarTle?
– mosamarTle irakli SavaZe sistemis msxverplia. rogorc ki is baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTloSi mivida, sasamarTlos Tavmjdomare mamiseiSvilma e. w. `sasamarTlo praqtikis~ CarCoebSi saqmianoba moTxova. es misi sityvebia. sinamdvileSi es praqtika moicavs CinCalaZe-murusiZis, anu adeiSvilis TamaSis wesebiT saqmianobas. bunebrivia, man am wesebiT samosamarTleo saqmianoba ar isurva, ris gamoc is adeiSvilis gundisgan gariyuli aRmoCnda. msoflioSi ar arsebobs precedenti, sasamarTlos Tavmjdomare mosamarTles ar elaparakebodes mxolod imis gamo, rom man e. w. sasamarTlo praqtikis gaziarebaze uari Tqva da gadawyvetilebebs sakuTari sindisis karnaxiT, kanonis safuZvelze Rebulobda. swored am mizezis gamo uari eTqva mas uvadod ganmwesebazec.
– iusticiis umaRles sabWoSi gamarTul Sexvedras rogor SeafasebT?
– iusticiis sabWoSi umravlesobas CinCalaZe-murusiZis jgufi qmnis. swored maT miiRes dausabuTebeli gadawyvetileba irakli SavaZis uvadod ganmwesebaze uaris Sesaxeb. dausabuTebeli imitom, rom orad ori kriteriumi arsebobs mosamarTled uvadod ganmwesebis:
1. profesionalizmi;
2. keTilsindisiereba.
maT sajarod ganacxades, rom irakli SavaZe aris keTilsindisieri da profesionali mosamarTle. Tu es asea, ra mizeziT ar dauWires mxari, ver amboben. samwuxarod, iusticiis sabWo, kanonmdeblobiT ar aris valdebuli miRebuli gadawyvetilebebi daasabuTos. gadawyvetilebebi miiReba faruli kenWisyriT. saWiroa, kanonmdeblobiT mkafiod, detalurad ganisazRvros is kriteriumebi, romlis safuZvelzec gadawyvetilebebi miiReba. disciplinuri devnis Sesaxeb gadawyvetilebas iusticiis sabWos wevrTa 2/3-is anu 10 wevris Tanxmoba sWirdeba. aseTi umravlesoba arc CinCalaZe-murusiZis da arc gvenetaZis jgufs hyavs. ver moxdeba verc irakli SavaZis da verc daviT mamiseiSvilis mimarT disciplinuri devnis ganxorcieleba, radgan maT mxardamWer jgufebs aseTi maRali kvorumi ar aqvT. amitom am mosmenebs Sedegi ver mohyveba. mas ufro moraluri Sedegi eqneba da ara – samarTlebrivi.
– batono aslan, iusticiis umaRlesma sabWom unda gaasajaroos Tu ara irakli SavaZesTan gasaubrebis oqmi?
– samarTliani iqneba, Tu orive oqmi gasajarovdeba. Tumca mas, ramdenadac vici, mosamarTleebis Tanxmoba sWirdeba.
– baTumis saqalaqo sasamarTloSi mimdinare procesebi rogor aisaxeba sasamarTlos imijze?
– ra Tqma unda cudad, Tumca sasamarTlo sistemaSi mimdinare procesebis gareT gamotanas mainc pozitiurad vafaseb, radgan Cven ufro meti informacia miviReT iq arsebuli mdgomareobis Sesaxeb. aman SesaZloa, sazogadoebis moTxovniT, sasamarTlo xelisuflebis reformirebis gagrZeleba daaCqaros da miviRoT imgvari sasamarTlo xelisufleba, romelic iqneba damoukidebeli politikuri gavlenebisgan.
