,, თუ სიჩუმე აკადამიურობაა, ქალაქში ერთი ადგილი მეგულება – სოუქსუს ეძახიან”
ნინო ცხვარაძე 591 98 24 30
medea vasaZem, 2012-2016 wlebis aWaris avtonomiuri respublikis umaRlesi sabWos wevrma, adamianis uflebaTa dacvis sakiTxTa komisiis Tavmjdomarem politikuri gaerTianeba `qarTuli ocneba~ 2015 wels datova. Tavis gadawyvetilebas imTaviTve mZime uwoda da ganmarta: `es gadawyvetileba gaxlavT 2 wlisa da 4 Tvis analizis Sedegi da gaaCnia ori daniSnuleba – am gadawyvetilebiT vrCebi Cemi qveynis samsaxurSi (romelsac, rogorc Cans, jer kidev vWirdebi!) da vicav Cems biografias (bolo 25 wlis ganmavlobaSi, TiTo aguriT, ofliTa da sisxliT rom miSenebia!)~…
sadeputato vadis amowurvis Semdeg, medea vasaZem isev scada sakanonmdeblo organoSi Sesvla Tanamoazre da Tanagundel murman dumbaZesTan erTad, politikuri gaerTianebidan `emsaxure saqarTvelos~, magram mcdeloba uSedego aRmoCnda. axlaxan, `emsaxure saqarTvelos~ liderebi `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ organizebul aqciaze gamoCdnen aWaris yofil mTavrobis Tavmjdomare levan varSalomiZesTan erTad. arada, sazogadoebas dResac kargad axsovs murman dumbaZis 2012 wels, winasaarCevno periodSi, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ misamarTiT gakeTebuli gancxadeba: – vinc xuTians moxazavs marjvena xeliT, kibo gauCndeba, marcxena xeliT moxazavs – infeqciao.
xuTiani isev xuTianad darCa, xolo dumbaZe-vasaZis poziciebi Seicvala. levan varSalomiZis gverdiT maTma gamoCenamac kiTxvis niSnebi gaaCina. sazogadoebaSi arsebuli mosazrebiT, erT dros sxvadasxva asparezze mebrZoli politikosebis gzebi SesaZloa, gadaikveTos.
mosalodnelia Tu ara `emsaxure saqarTvelos~ da `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ gaerTianeba? rogor afasebs wlebis win mmarTveli gundis datovebis gadawyvetilebas? am da sazogadoebisTvis saintereso sxva sakiTxebze `aWaras~ medea vasaZe esaubreba.
– qalbatono medea, modiT, saubari `qarTul ocnebaSi~ mimdinare procesebiT da biZina ivaniSvilis politikaSi dabrunebiT daviwyoT. rogor fiqrobT, ra xdeba mmarTvel partiaSi da ram gadaawyvetina ivaniSvils `meored mosvla~?
– biZina ivaniSvilis dabrunebis ramdenime argumenets ganixilaven. amboben, rom mas ucxoeTSi yofiTi problemebi aqvs samarTaldamcavebTan da garkveuli imuniteti sWirdeba. amasTan, TvalnaTliv Cans (da arc Tavad uaryofen) partiaSi seriozul dapirispirebas. amdenad, vfiqrob, biZina ivaniSvili dabrunda ganxeTqilebamde misul partiaSi situaciis dasalageblad, an SesaZlebelia orive versiis erTad ganxilva.
– ganxeTqilebaSi Zvelebsa da axlebs Soris dapirispirebas gulisxmobT?
– `Zvelebs~ amgvari Sefaseba aRizianebT, momismenia sayveduri, ratom gvyofen Zvelebad da axlebado, Tumc aseTi dayofa realurad arsebobs. partiaSi axalSemomatebulebi, anu axalgazrdebi 2012 wlamde ar yofilan `qarTuli ocnebis~ gverdiT. isini, romlebsac `Zvelebs~ eZaxian, SedarebiT Tavisuflebismoyvare, gabeduli adamianebi arian, ramdenadac 2012 wlamde mimdinare procesebSi iyvnen CarTulebi. bunebrivia, maTi mosazrebebis gauTvaliswineblobas da ignorirebas, rogorc amboben, umetesoba ver Seegua. vfiqrob, gadawyvetilebebis miRebaSi maTi minimalurad CarTuloba gaxda dapirispirebis mizezi, Tumca arc axlebi iRebdnen gadawyvetilebebs damoukideblad.
– aWaraSi vis daasaxelebT `qarTuli ocnebis~ Zveli saxeebidan?
– Zvelebidan mxolod irakli WeiSvilsa da daviT bacikaZes (marTalia, bacikaZem 2012 wlis mTeli saarCevno periodi abasTumanSi, CeroSi wamowolilma gaatara, Tumc – mainc). danarCenebi sxvadasxva poziciidan akrefili adamianebi arian. nurc erTi daiCemebs, rom Tavis droze Cven gverdiT iyvnen.
– Tqven mmarTveli gundis datovebisTanave TqviT, rom gadawyvetileba emociur niadagze ar migiRiaT… dResac igives fiqrobT?
– igives vfiqrob da Cemi gadawyvetilebiT kmayofili var, radgan realurad ar var im procesebis monawile, romelic dRes aris partiaSi da, zogadad, qveyanaSi. pasuxismgeblobas arasodes gavqcevivar, Tumc, es is SemTxveva iyo, roca pasuxismgebloba ukavSirdeboda Cemi biografiis waxdenas. pasuxismgebloba movixseni partiis datovebiT. bolo dros amboben, TiTqos medea vasaZes ukan dabrunebis mesijebi aqvso (damaxinjebul-daCexili interviuebidan ase amoikiTxes albaT).
– gamoricxuli, miT ufro politikaSi, araferia. dabruneba rom SemogTavazon, daTanxmdebiT?
– erT mdinareSi orjer ar Sedian. verc makadreben.
– wina mowvevis umaRlesi sabWo xmauris, urTierTdapirispirebis fonze muSaobda. rogoria axali mowvevis sakanonmdeblo organo?
– kanonmdeblebis saqmianobas CamoZinebul mdgomareobas vuwodeb, isini ar arian TanamebrZolebi da arc Tanamoazreebi, sxvadasxva poziciidan mosuli, sxvadasxva warsulis, biografiis, Rirebulebisa da `politikuri codvebis~ matarebeli adamianebi arian. umaRlesi sabWos ori wevris magaliTze SemiZlia vTqva (gvarebis dasaxelebisagan Tavs Sevikaveb): roca erTi daakaves, meore aqtiurad monawileobda mtkicebulebebis SegrovebaSi, mowmeebi mihyavda dasakiTxad… rogor warmogidgeniaT am adamianebis erToba? umaRles sabWoSi yvelaferi modunebulia. erT-erT interviuSi Tavmjdomare daviT gabaiZem Tqva – akademiurad mivyvebiT procesebs, xmauris gareSeo. Tu siCume akademiurobaa, qalaqSi erTi adgili meguleba – souqsus eZaxian – iq iseTi siwynarea, ukeTess ver inatrebs adamiani. parlamenti laparaks niSnavs, laparakis adgilia da Tu iq cocxali procesebi ar midis, aseTi sakanonmdeblo organo arc sainteresoa da arc qmediTunariani.
– axlaxan aWaris konstituciis redaqtirebuli varianti damtkicda. rogorc iuristi, rogor fiqrobT, ra Seicvala regionis mTavar kanonSi?
– arafers iZleva redaqtirebuli konstitucia. arasamTavrobo organizaciebis Sefasebebs, maT poziciebs ver vxvdebi. TiTqmis yvela arasamTavrobo organizacia, romelic kriWaSi edga Cveni mowvevis umaRles sabWos, dRes am konstituciaze ambobs mxolod erTs – konstitucia, Turme, kargad ikiTxeba. es aris mTavari? konstitucia, zogadad, martivi da gasagebi eniT iwereboda da martivad ikiTxeboda yovelTvis. martivad wakiTxvis SesaZlebloba ar niSnavs arsebiT cvlilebebs. me Tu mkiTxavT, aris mimarTulebebi, sadac Cveni regionis interesebi dazaralda kidec…
– cvlilebebiT sakanonmdeblo organos funqcia gazrdilia da, amasTan, aRmasrulebel xelisuflebas umaRlesi sabWosadmi angariSvaldebuleba ekisreba.
– es formaluria, verc erTi umaRlesi sabWo, garda wina mowvevisa, sadac zogierTebs gvqonda gabeduli da principuli midgoma rigi sakiTxebisadmi, Tavis uflebamosilebas srulyofilad da amomwuravad mainc ver iyenebda. amdenad, raRacis mimateba, roca arsebuls ar iyenebdi, praqtikulad arafers iZleva da amitomac formaluria, miT ufro morCili umravlesobis pirobebSi.
– mpg-m `emsaxure saqarTvelos~ 2016 wlis arCvenebi waago, amis Semdeg Tqven da murman dumbaZem erTgvari taim-auti aiReT, politikurad aRar aqtiurobdiT...
– batoni murmani saqarTveloSi ar gaxldaT, me ki aWaris mTavrobis Tavmjdomares jer kidev deputatis statusiT roca Sevxvdi, davpirdi, opoziciuri ganwyobebi erTgvar axirebas rom ar damsgavseboda, muSaobis saSualebas mivcemdi da roca Cemi, rogorc deputatis, Tanadgoma dasWirdeboda, gverdiT davudgebodi. amdenad, garkveuli periodi erTgvar monitorings vawarmoebdi. amasTan, arCevnebSi damarcxebam ganapiroba is, rom unda mefiqra Cemi gadawyvetilebis marTebulobaze. 2016 wels, statistikuri monacemebiT, Cven ki ar wavageT, Zalian wavageT arCevnebi, Tumca TandaTan davrwmundi, rom monacemebi gayalbebuli iyo.
– mTavrobis Tavmjdomaris saqmianobis monitoringis Sedegi rogoria? gvaxsovs, mis winamorbeds mudmivad akritikebdiT…
– es ufro moqnili adamiania, magram SeniSvnebi damigrovda… pataraZis mTavrobas `padiezdis~ mTavroba SevarqviT. mniSvnelovan Tanamdebobebze dasaqmebuli pirebi misi `samezobloa~. yvelaferi dokumenturad maqvs gadamowmebuli, maT Soris naTesauri kavSirebic ki. samwuxarod, am adamianis Tvalsawieri ver gascda `aRorZinebis~ wevr yofil Tanamdebobis pirebs.
– `nacionaluri moZraobis~ xelisuflebaSic iyvnen abaSiZis droindeli kadrebi…
– SeiZleba iyvnen, ar gamovricxav, magram Cven dros amas vakontrolebdiT. imasac getyviT, rom umaRlesi sabWos aparatSi myavda abaSiZis droindeli vice-meri, romelic dRemde umaRles sabWoSi muSaobs. amiT imis Tqma minda, rom am adamianebma unda imuSaon TavianTi ganaTlebis da SesaZleblobebis Sesabamisad, magram ara mniSvnelovani gadawyvetilebebis mimReb Tanamdebobebze. xelisufleba Caabaro im adamianebs, romlebsac Tavis droze ar gaaCndaT moqalaqeobrivi pozicia Tundac imaze, rom ColoqSi pasports gvisinjavdnen, arc xidis afeTqebaze da arc imaze, rom aWaris mosaxleoba ramdenime gvaris mZevali iyo, dauSvebelia. amboben, rom kargi eqimia parlamentis vice-spikeri. Tu kargi eqimia, darCes pacientTan, ra unda politikaSi? miT ufro, rom mis mimarT dRemde arsebobs kiTxvebi. am bolos gavecani parlamentSi misi gamosvlis teqstze komentarebs da pirdapir getyviT, rom im `Zveli~ gvarebiTa da saxelebiT Sevwuxdi.
– qalbatono medea, levan varSalomiZesTan erTad aqciaze Tqveni da murman dumbaZis gamoCena ras mivaweroT?
– maTi aqcia iusticiis saxlTan daiwyo, me da batoni murmani jelal qiqavaze Zaladobis faqts vaprotestebdiT policiis sammarTvelos SenobasTan. `nacionalur moZraobas~ dagegmili hqonia iusticiis saxlidan sammarTvelomde msvleloba. ase aRmovCndiT erTad. ise, levan varSalomiZem aqciaze xeli gamomiwoda da saTanadod ar unda mepasuxa? vidre kiTxvis avtorebi gamoifxizleben da Tavad mixvdebian, rom Zaladobas protesti sWirdeba da gareT gamovlen, manam saxlSi vijde? aqciaze erTad dgoma ki gaerTianebas ar niSnavs.
– anu samomavlod gamoricxavT gaerTianebas?
– am droisaTvis zustad ver getyviT, magram cnobilia, rom saprezidento arCevnebis win mzaddeba erTgvari opoziciuri gaerTianeba. Tu aucilebeli gaxdeba am opoziciur gaerTianebaSi mpg `emsaxure saqarTvelos~ yofna, amas ar gamovricxav. gaerTianebaSi Semaval partiebTan garkveuli droiT programulad viTanamSromlebT. gaerTianeba yovelTvis iZleva Sedegs, aseTia qarTuli politikis uaxlesi istoria. maTematikurad, ra procentiTac igebs `qarTuli ocneba~ arCevnebs, gacilebiT naklebia im xmebze, romelsac jamSi debs opozicia.
– yofil Tanagundelebze ras ityviT, romlebic `qarTulma ocnebam~ politikuri asparezidan gaiyvana…
– yvelani gavafrTxile, roca partias vtovebdi, rom aWaris umaRlesi sabWos gareT darCebodnen. bolo wuTamde imedovnebdnen, rom saarCevno siebSi iqnebodnen, magram… ise, saintereso ram ki moxda – umaRlesi sabWos saarCevno siaSi aRmoCnda daviT bacikaZe, xolo saqarTvelos parlamentis siaSi – svetlana kudba, romelic CvenTan erTad umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomaris moadgilis, daviT bacikaZis Tanamdebobidan gadayenebis proceduraSi monawileobda da misi xma gadamwyvetic ki iyo, am ori adamianidan, cxadia, erTi `scodavda~ gadawyvetilebis miRebisas, anu Tu kudba iyo marTali, rogor moxvda bacikaZe umaRles sabWoSi? an piriqiT, Tu bacikaZe iyo marTali, ra niSniT moxvda svetlana kudba saqarTvelos parlamentSi? alogikuri procesia. Zvel umaRles sabWoSi Cven TanamebrZolebi mainc viyaviT. Zalian menaneba, magram yvelam, garkveulwilad, Secdoma dauSva. yofili Tanagundelebi dResac mekontaqtebian, pativs vcem 2012 wlamde Cvens ganvlil gzas, Semdeg periodsac, mixaria da mtkiva maTi sixaruli da problemebi, magram samomavlod maTTan TanamSromlobas gamovricxav. samwuxaroa, magram faqtia, maTi politikuri kariera dasrulebulia. mTavazoben arasamTavrobo organizaciis Seqmnas, razedac ase vpasuxob – xelisuflebaSi yofnis dros ver vTanxmdebodiT da arasamTavrobo seqtorSi saerTo ra unda gvqondes? mgonia, rom Cemi tipis adamianebi kvlav dasWirdeba qveyanas, amitom vrCebi samSoblos samsaxurSi da yvelas movuwodeb – erTad vemsaxuroT saqarTvelos!
