,, ათათურქმა ძალიან კარგად აღნიშნა, რომ თურქეთს სურს, საქართველო იყოს ძლიერი და დამოუკიდებელი”
მანანა ტაკიძე 577 10 15 17
TurqeTis generalur sakonsulos baTumSi, Tavisi arsebobis istoriaSi, pirveli qali konsuli hyavs. maqbule qoCakma am Tanamdebobaze iasin Temizqani Caanacvla. profesiiT iuristi, 17 welia diplomatiur saqmian-obas eweva. sxvadasxva periodSi, TurqeTis respublikis sagareo saqmeTa saministroSi araerT sapasuxismgeblo Tanamdebobaze muSaobda – 2003-2007 wlebSi daniaSi TurqeTis respublikis saelCos iuridiuli mrCeveli iyo, 2009-2012 wlebSi – italiaSi TurqeTis respublikis elCis moadgile, baTumSi Camosvlamde ki, 2015-2017 wlebSi, azerbaijanSi TurqeTis respublikis elCis moadgile iyo. qalbatoni maqbule sasiamovno mosaubre aRmoCnda. vfiqrobT, masTan interviu saintereso iqneba Cveni mkiTxvelisTvis.
– qalbatono maqbule, Tqven pirveli qali konsuli xarT baTumSi. ras niSnavs es TqvenTvis?
– Cveni sakonsulo erT-erTi uZvelesi diplomatiuri dawesebulebaa, romelic aseve, erT-erTi pirveli gaixsna am qalaqSi. Cemamde baTumSi bevri Rirseuli adamiani muSaobda da didi pativia, viyo pirveli qali konsuli. manamde vmuSaobdi baqoSi da mqonda SesaZlebloba, garkveulwilad Tvalyuri medevnebina saqarTveloSi mimdinare procesebisTvis. rodesac adgilis Secvlis periodi axlovdeba, Cven gveZleva sia, da mec sasurvel axal samuSao adgilad baTumi mivuTiTe. saministrom moTxovna damikmayofila.
– da mainc, ratom – baTumi?
– baTumi saqarTvelos da aseve mTeli SavizRvispireTis erT-erTi ulamazesi da gamorCeuli qalaqia. Cveni qveynebis intensiuri, mWidro TanamSromlobis fonze, pozitiuri dRis wesrigiT, vfiqrob, aq ufro metis gakeTeba SeiZleba. bevri qveynis statikuri mdgomareobisgan gansxvavebiT, romlebmac umeteswilad ukve daasrules ganviTareba, aq Zalian bevri kargi saqmis gakeTebaa SesaZlebeli. saqarTvelo-TurqeTs mWidro ekonomikuri urTierToba aqvT erTmaneTTan da esec mniSvnelovan rols TamaSobs. am urTierTobas didi potenciali aqvs. aqtiuri komunikacia aqvT Cvens mTavrobebs, rac, aseve, mniSvnelovania. baTumSi Camosvlis Semdeg davrwmundi Cemi gadawyvetilebis sisworeSi. Zalian datvirTuli samuSao grafiki maqvs. vimedovneb, baTumidan pozitiuri SedegebiT waval da SevZleb Cemi mokrZalebuli wvlili Sevitano am urTierTobebis gaRrmavebaSi.
– TurqeTi saqarTvelosTvis erT-erTi ZiriTadi investoria, romelmac araerTi saintereso proeqti ganaxorciela Cvens qveyanaSi. Tqveni muSaobis periodSi xom ar igegmeba raime siaxle am mimarTulebiT?
– gegmebi gvaqvs. Cveni ZiriTadi mizania investiciebis gazrda, gansakuTrebiT ki erToblivi produqtebis warmoeba da misi realizeba mesame qveynis bazarze. aq warmoebas sxvadasxva privilegiebi aqvs lojistikuri, energetikuli da muSaxelis mimarTulebiT. saqarTveloSi uamravi teqstilis fabrikaa. mxolod aWaraSi 500-mde sxvadasxva tipis sawarmo moqmedebs, sadac 20 000 adamiania dasaqmebuli. ramdenime xnis win, foTSic gavxseniT teqstilis msxvili sawarmo, sadac dasaqmdeba 3 000 adamiani. Cemi xuTTviani muSaobis periodSi orma biznesmenma ukve miiRo mniSvnelovani sainvesticio gadawyvetileba, maTgan erTi quTaisSi avejis sawarmos mSeneblobaSi, meore ki soflis meurneobis mimarTulebiT daabandebs Tanxas. es procesi mudmivad grZeldeba, aq Camosul seriozul investors maqsimalurad SevuwyobT xels. Tavisufali savaWro SeTanxmebebis safuZvelze erTobliv warmoebas da realizebas did mniSvnelobas vaniWebT, aseve mniSvnelovania CvenTvis ormxrivi vaWroba da infrastruqturuli proeqtebi.
– ramdenime wlis win TurqeTis prezidentis rejep taip erdoRanis rizes universitetSi gamosvlas, sadac, rogorc mediiT iTqva, baTums TurqeTis Semadgenel nawilad moixseniebs, mosaxleobis kritika mohyva. amaze araerTi ganmarteba gakeTda, miuxedavad amisa, dRes isev wamoiwina wina planze am sakiTxma. rogor fiqrobT, vis aZlevs xels situaciis daZabva?
– saqarTvelos mosaxleobis didi nawilisTvis cnobilia, Tu ratom aris es naTqvami amoglejili konteqstidan. garkveuli wreebi, romlebic Sewuxebulni arian Cveni urTierTobis maRali doniT, aseT saTuT Temebze apelirebiT negativis Setanas cdiloben da aWaris regionSi nebismier sakiTxs – yarsis xelSekrulebas Tu religiur Temas, dRis wesrigSi ayeneben. amis Taobaze sakonsulom Cveni pozicia Tqveni gazeTis saSualebiT ukve daafiqsira. TurqeTis prezidenti erTaderTi saxelmwifo lideria, romelmac 2017 wlis seqtemberSi, gaeros 72-e generalur asambleaze, saqarTvelos suverenitetisa da teritoriuli mTlianobis mtkice mxardaWera gamoxata. Cemi azri Tu gainteresebT, movismine prezidentis gamosvlis Canaweri da iq msgavsi araferi Tqmula. pativcemuli TurqeTis prezidentis ori wlis win gakeTebuli gancxadeba regionis xalxTa intensiur urTierTobebs asaxavs. xazi esmeba ori eris socialur da kulturul msgavsebas, romlebic saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi gverdigverd cxovroben. imdenad mWidro geografiuli mdebareoba gvaqvs, rom SeuZlebelia maTi gancalkeveba, gansxvaveba. msgavsi gvaqvs kultura, kerZebi, TurqeTSi Zalian bevri warmoSobiT qarTveli cxovrobs da bevri saqarTvelos moqalaqe muSaobs. saqarTvelos miviCnevT moZme megobar qveynad. 100 wlis win, rodesac ankaraSi saqarTvelos pirveli saelCo gaixsna, eris sulierma mamam aTaTurqma Zalian kargad aRniSna, rom TurqeTs surs, saqarTvelo iyos Zlieri da damoukidebeli. migvaCnia, rom Zlieri saqarTvelo wvlils Seitans TurqeTis gaZlierebaSi. TurqeTis damokidebuleba saqarTvelosTan mimarTebaSi yovelTvis aseTi iyo da iqneba momavalSic. Cven amas vxedavT yoveldRiurad, regionis ganviTareba xels uwyobs Cvens ganviTarebas. baTumSi rac sasikeTo ram keTdeba, dadebiTad aisaxeba arTvinzec, rizezec da mTlianad, Savi zRvisa da TurqeTis sxva regionebzec. ai, amaze iyo iq saubari, rom Cven erToblivad unda gavZlierdeT. Semdeg es ise gaSuqda, TiTqos TurqeTs raime pretenzia hqonda saqarTvelosTan mimarTebaSi. Cvens qveyanas sxvis teritoriebze Tvali ar uWiravs, gansakuTrebiT, mezobel da megobar qveynebze. saqarTvelosTan sazRvrebi dadgenilia da aranairi eWvi ar arsebobs. Cven bednieri varT dadgenili sazRvrebiT da garkveuli wreebi, romlebsac surT ziani miayenon Cvens jansaR urTierTobebs, verafers gaxdebian.
– dRes xSirad ixseneben yarsis xelSekrulebasac…
– am sakiTxis garSemo arsebuli SeSfoTeba mTlianad Sorsaa kanonisa da realobisgan. saubaric zedmetia, rom TurqeTs raime cudi ganzraxva aqvs amasTan dakavSirebiT. igoneben legendebs, TiTqos mas 2021 wels vada ewureba da viTomcda mosalodnel safrTxeebze saubroben. getyviT, rom am xelSekrulebas vada ar aqvs. TurqeTi yovelTvis saerTaSoriso platformebze, umaRles doneze da mtkiced gamoxatavs mxardaWeras saqarTvelos suverenitetisa da teritoriuli mTlianobisadmi. Dda amas ara mxolod acxadebs, aramed aqtiuri qmedebebiTac uWers mxars da uwyobs xels. Zalian nayofieri TanamSromloba gvaqvs Tavdacvis, samxedro sferoebSi, am mimarTulebiT teqnikuri da finansuri mxardaWera intesiurad grZeldeba da viTardeba. yvelaze metad Cven mxars vuWerT saqarTvelos natoSi gawevrianebas. azerbaijanis, saqarTvelos, TurqeTis ministrebs Soris periodulad imarTeba Sexvedrebi rogorc sxva, aseve Tavdacvis sferoSi. sxvadasxva sferoSi TanamSromlobis kidev ufro gaRrmaveba emsaxureba Cvens saerTo interesebs. istoriisa da religiis sakiTxebSi ararsebuli preten-ziebis gamoTqmiTa da apelirebiT cdiloben Crdili miayenon Cvens urTierTobebs, magram verafers miaRweven – Cven vaxorci-elebT araerT sasargeblo proeqts da am principebiT vxelmZRvanelobT yovelTvis.
1992 wels saqarTvelosa da TurqeTs Soris gaformda megobrobis xelSekruleba. yvela aseTi SeTanxmeba gansazRvravs Cvens sazRvrebs, Cveni samomavlo perspeqtivebi emsaxureba saerTo interesebs da Cvens ganviTarebas. arsebobs am TanamSromlobis Zalian bevri magaliTi, baqo-Tbilisi-jeihani, baqo-Tbilisi-erzrumi, baqo-Tbilisi-yarsis proeqtebi. 12 ivniss gaixsneba kidev erTi proeqti `Tanafi~, romelic saqarTvelos gavliT azerbaijanis gazis, kaspiis energetikuli resursebis jer TurqeTisTvis, Semdeg evropisTvis miwodebas iTvaliswinebs. es proeqti iZleva SesaZleblobas, rom ganviTardes da gaZlierdes Cveni qveynebi da amasTan didi strategiuli mniSvnelobac aqvs. savaraudod, garkveul wreebs ar surT, rom Cven gvqondes kargi urTierToba, ganvaxorcieloT aseTi mniSvnelovani erToblivi proeqtebi da aseTi mcdelobebiT, sazogadoebis garkveuli nawilis SecdomaSi SeyvaniT da maTze gavleniT cdiloben zianis miyenebas. Cveni saukeTeso pasuxi yvela aseT mcdelobaze aris is, rom Cveni urTierTobebi dRiTi dRe kidev ufro Rrmavdeba da viTardeba.
– TurqeTi saqarTvelosTvis ZiriTadi importiori qveyanaa. bolo periodSi dafiqsirda uxarisxo produqciis Semotanis faqtebi. axali wlidan dRemde, jer kartofilis, Semdeg ki gayinuli qaTmis Semotana aikrZala, rasac mosaxleobis araerTgvarovani gamoxmaureba mohyva.
– TurqeTidan qaTmis xorcis Semotana ar akrZalula, mxolod erTi kompania dadginda, romelsac erTi wlis vadiT saqonlis Semotana aekrZala. rogorc CvenTvis aris cnobili, am kompaniam akrZalvis gauqmebis mizniT, Sesamowmeblad, saqarTvelos kompetentur uwyebebs mimarTa. kartofilis Semotanis akrZalvac 1 ivnisidan gauqmda. yvela qveyanas amgvari situaciebisTvis Sesabamisi meqanizmebi gaaCnia da saerTaSoriso vaWrobis Seuferxeblad ganxorcielebisaTvis kompetentur uwyebebs Soris Seiqmna sakomunikacio da ganxilva-Seswavlis arxebi. Cven, rogorc sakonsulo, ra Tqma unda, vawvdiT informacias Cvens kompetentur organoebs da uzrunvelvyofT sakiTxis mokvlevas. Cveni soflis meurneobis saministroebsa da ekonomikis saministroebs Soris isedac aris kargi komunikacia, nebismieri faqtis aRmoCenis Semdeg, produqcia orive qveynis laboratoriaSi mowmdeba. uaryofiTi Sedegis miRebis SemTxvevaSi kompania jarimdeba. Cveni saelCoc aqtiurad adevnebs Tvalyurs am process. CvenTvis mniSvnelovania, msgavs faqtebs adgili ar hqondes. biznesSi da vaWrobaSi aseTi problema nebismier qveyanas SeiZleba hqondes da arc TurqeTia gamonaklisi.
– qalbatono maqbule, sarfis sabaJoze, Turqi mebaJeebis mxridan, bolo dros gaxSirda saqarTvelos moqalaqeebis sityvieri, zogjer ki fizikuri Seuracxyofis, piradobis mowmobebisa da pasportebis dazianebis faqtebi. Tqveni sakonsulos warmomadgenlebma araerTxel gaarkvies adgilze situacia da gaakeTes gancxadebebi. Tqveni azriT, ratom xdeba es da rogor cdilobs Turquli mxare situaciis daregulirebas?
– upirveles yovlisa, unda aRvniSno, rom zogierTi gamonaklisis garda, SemTxveva-pretenziebis ise asaxva da warmoCena, TiTqos amas zogadi xasiaTi hqondes, arasworia. rogorc mogexsenebaT, sarfi erT-erTi mniSvnelovani da intensiurad datvirTuli gamSvebi punqtia or qveyanas Soris. weliwadSi 7 milioni adamiani kveTs am sazRvars. qveiT mgzavrTa gadasvlis TvalsazrisiT, yvelaze datvirTuli gamSvebi punqtia da am kuTxiT pirvel adgilzea qveynis masStabiT. sabaJos Zalian mouxerxebeli, viwro mdebareoba aqvs. erTi mxridan mTa, meoredan ki zRva esazRvreba. momsaxurebis xarisxis gasaumjobeseblad, erTi wlis win daviwyeT samSeneblo samuSaoebi, romlis mizanic moqalaqeebis ufro komfortuli momsaxurebaa. mSeneblobis procesSi garkveuli diskomforti eqmneba rogorc gadamsvlelebs, ise iq momuSaveebs. kidev erTi sirTule, diliT da gvian RamiT, pikis saaTebSi gazrdili mgzavrTa nakadia, amitom gacilebiT meti TanamSromlis CarTvaa saWiro.
amas imitom ganvixilav ase detalurad, rom msurs ukeT gagarkvioT situaciaSi. faqtia, rom aranairi sirTule, mgzavrTa intensiuri mimosvla ar unda aisaxos gadamsvlelebze, es ar aZlevs uflebas vinmes, cudad moeqces moqalaqes. am mimarTulebiT Zalian mkacrni varT. qarTuli da Turquli policiis warmomadgenlebi periodulad xvdebian erTmaneTs, ganixilaven yvela aseT faqts da axdenen reagirebas, raTa aRar ganmeordes. amas garda, Tu vinme CaTvlis, rom mas cudad moeqcnen da Cvens sakonsulos momarTavs, mis saCivars vswavlobT, varkvevT da vugzavniT Sesabamis uwyebas. gamtari punqtis mTeli perimetri kontroldeba videokamerebiT. sabaJo gvawvdis am Canawerebs da moTxovnis SemTxvevaSi, gadavcemT kidec qarTuli mxaris kompetentur uwyebebs. xSiria SemTxveva, rom modave mxaris pretenziebi usafuZvlo aRmoCenila, aranair Zaladobas adgili ar hqonia da simarTles ar Seesabameboda. bevri gadamsvleli, roca mas aqvs deporti, cdilobs masmediis saSualebiT moagvaros problema, rac arasworia. garwmunebT, rom moqalaqeebis uflebebis Selaxva CvenTvis yovlad miuRebelia da arc erTi realuri, cudi mopyrobis faqti, momarTvis SemTxvevaSi, kompetenturi uwyebebis mxridan dausjeli ar darCeba.
– kidev erTi sakiTxi, rasac adgilobrivi mosaxleobis araerTgvarovani gamoxmaureba mohyva, es bolo periodSi saganmanaTleblo dawesebulebebis unebarTvo mSenebloba da akreditaciis gareSe funqcionirebaa. flobT Tu ara informacias amis Sesaxeb da Tqveni pozicia rogoria?
– baTumSi Turqul skolasTan dakavSirebiT qmedeba ganxorcielda saqarTvelos uwyebebis informirebiT, nebarTvis, Tanxmobis da skolasTan dakavSirebuli oficialuri SeTanxmebis procesi grZeldeba. ori qveynis ganaTlebis saministroebs Soris amJamad mimdinareobs molaparakeba.
– swored amaze aqvT pretenzia – jer aaSenes da axla iTxoven nebarTvaso. xom ar jobda, jer licenzia mieRoT da Semdeg gaexsnaT?
– saswrafod dadga amis saWiroeba. madlobeli varT imisTvis, rom saqarTvelos uwyebebma Cveni bavSvebis gadaudebeli aucilebloba gaiTvaliswina da gagebiT moekida. amis Semdeg daiwyo konsultaciebi saerTaSoriso SeTanxmebaze, rac momzadda kidec da xelmoweris etapzea. vinmes ar hqonda informacia da malulad gakeTda yvelaferio, amis Tqma arasworia. saqarTveloSi msoflios sxva qveynebis msgavsad, Turqulis garda, gaxsnilia germanuli, italiuri, franguli da a. S. skolebi, rasac dadebiTad uyurebs yvela. moswavleebi iq ganaTlebasTan erTad qarTul kulturas da xelovnebasac eziarebian, rac, aseve, Zalian mniSvnelovania. moswavleebi swavloben qarTul enas. TurqeTis skolebSic qarTuli arCeviT sagnad iswavleba. TurqeTis 5 universitetSi gaixsna qarTuli enis fakultetebi. anu ganaTlebis sferoSi urTierTTanamSromlobis gaZliereba xels Seuwyobs Cveni qveynebis ekonomikas, vaWrobas, xalxebis Zmobas. Cvenc, survili gvaqvs, male moeweros xeli am xelSekrulebas. es Zalian rTuli da Sromatevadi teqnikuri procesia. xelSekrulebaSi Tundac erTi mZimis Sesacvlelad, xangrZlivi proceduraa gasavleli. imedi maqvs, male dasruldeba yvelaferi da am sakiTxis irgvliv kiTxvis niSnebi aRar iqneba.
– bolo dros wina planze wamoswies religiuri Tema. rogor fiqrobT, vis aZlevs es xels?
– amis mizezi TqvenTvisac da CvenTvisac kargad aris cnobili – xels aZlevs maT, visac ar moswons Cveni kargi damokidebuleba. saqarTveloSi did pativs scemen gansxvavebuli sarwmunoebis adamianebs. rogorc TurqeTSi, ise aq, tolerantoba da Semwynarebloba mniSvnelovania. TurqeTma axlaxan kargi gadawyvetileba miiRo Cveni saerTo kulturuli memkvidreobis – oSkis gumbaTis restavraciasTan dakavSirebiT. Aaseve, restavrirebulia mravali sxva istoriuli Zegli da eklesia. msgavs sakiTxebze aranairi problema ar gagvaCnia, TurqeTSi da saqarTveloSi saerTo memkvidreobis SenarCuneba da movla-patronoba mniSvnelovania CvenTvis. zogierTebi aseT Temebze dayrdnobiT cdiloben urTierTobis gafuWebas, rac arasworia. yvelgan, maT Soris TurqeTSic da saqarTveloSic, arsebobs wesebi, romelsac icaven moqalaqeebi da madloba RmerTs, arc erT qveyanaSi am kuTxiT problema ar arsebobs. yvelaze kargi pasuxi iqneba ufro konkretulad, Riad saubari aseT sakiTxebze. ar unda mivceT im adamianebs, romlebic cdiloben isargeblon situaciiT, ziani miayenon da gaafuWon Cveni urTierTobebi.
– qalbatono maqbule, cota Tqvenzec visaubroT. axal samuSao adgils da baTums rogor SeegueT?
– SesaniSnavad vgrZnob aq Tavs. SeviZine bevri megobari. maTi daxmarebiT SevZeli baTumis ukeT gacnoba. am qalaqSi saocrad Tbilad damxvdnen, risTvisac Zalian did madlobas vuxdi yvelas. qarTuli stumarmaspinZloba da stumarTmoyvareoba umaRles donezea. gansakuTrebiT momwons qarTuli sufra, sadac adgils ver naxav Tavisufals, imdeni kerZia. warmoidgineT, es Zalian momwons. yvelaze metad movixible baTumis saocari bulvariT. rogorc ki dros vpoulob, miyvars velosipediT gaseirneba, rac CemTvis yvelaze didi siamovnebaa.
– ramdeni welia, rac diplomati brZandebiT, diplomati qalis cxovreba rogoria da, datvirTuli grafikis miuxedavad, piradi cxovrebisTvis Tu grCebaT dro?
– 17 welia diplomati var. daniaSi – kopenhagenSi, Semdeg italiaSi, kerZod, romSi vmuSaobdi, baTumSi Camosvlamde ki azerbaijanSi, baqoSi gaxldiT. Cemi piradi cxovreba da profesia realurad datvirTul samuSao reJimSi grZeldeba. ojaxi jer ar Semiqmnia. cxovrebaSi yvela detalis winaswar dagegmva sworad ar mimaCnia, radgan yovelTvis ar amarTlebs. balansis dacva pirad cxovrebasa da karieras Soris mniSvnelovania, orive erTmaneTs avsebs da alamazebs, aqedan gamomdinare, romelimes alternativad ver ganvixilav. pirad cxovrebaSic bednieri adamiani var. maqvs saintereso saqme, myavs bevri megobari, miyvars mogzauroba, ferwera da var gurmani. saqarTvelo Cemi am yvela interesis sferosaTvis ulamazesi da mdidari adgilia. iyo diplomati, niSnavs, cxovrebis yvela sferos Seexo da ar gaqvs gansazRvruli samuSao grafiki. kviraSi 7 dRes 24 saaTis ganmavlobaSi vmuSaob. Tu romelime moqalaqes problema aqvs, valdebuli xar, daexmaro, rac Zalian sasiamovno da sapasuxismgeblo procesia CemTvis.
