როგორ პასუხობენ საზოგადოებაში არსებულ კითხვებს ოპოზიციის და პოზიციის წარმომადგენლები
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saqarTvelos momdevno sami kviris ganmavlobaSi droebiTi mTavroba eyoleba axali premier-ministriT da Zveli saxeebiT
droebiT mTavrobasTan dakavSirebiT mamuka baxtaZe ganmartavs, rom saministroebis raodenoba 14-dan 11-mde Semcirdeba, rasac dro sWirdeba. mTavrobis reorganizaciasTan dakavSirebiT gancxadeba saqarTvelos parlamentis Tavmjdomarem irakli kobaxiZemac gaakeTa da Tqva, rom saWiroa kanonSi Sesabamisi cvlilebis Setana, rasac erT kviraSi ver moaswrebdnen.
– mizezi isicaa, rom erTkviriani vada aqvs premier-ministrobis kandidats mTavrobis Semadgenlobis dasaxelebisTvis. bunebrivia, erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi SeuZlebelia kanonSi cvlilebebis Setana. mTavrobis reorganizacia rom ganxorcieldes, unda Sevides cvlilebebi mTavrobis Sesaxeb kanonSi, amisTvis saWiroa proeqtis SemuSaveba, mTavrobis sxdomis CaniSvna, am procedurebis gavla SeuZlebelia erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi da es aris samarTlebrivi mizezi, ris gamoc Cven gviwevs samkviriani Tu oTxkviriani intervaliT mTavrobisTvis ndobis orjer gamocxadeba, – ganacxada parlamentis Tavmjdomarem.
mamuka baxtaZe imasac irwmuneba, rom qveyanas axlandelTan SedarebiT `mcire~ mTavroba sWirdeba, rac garkveuli uwyebebis gaerTianebas gulisxmobs.
– Cven warmodgenili gvaqvs konkretuli amocanebi da programa. Sesabamisad, vsaubrobT, rom mcire zomis mTavroba gvWirdeba, raTa gadawyvetilebebi efeqturad da operatiulad miviRoT. rac mTavaria, dro gadawyvetilebis miRebis momentidan im dRemde, rodesac Cveni moqalaqe am gadawyvetilebis Sedegad igrZnobs miRebul serviss an sikeTes, maqsimalurad unda Semcirdes. arc erT funqcias ar davakninebT, piriqiT, saministroebis Serwyma organulad ganxorcieldeba funqciebisa da amocanebis mixedviT. rac mTavaria, Cveni mTavari amocanaa, qveynis ekonomikas saxelmwifo mmarTvelobiTi aparatis Senaxva Zalian Zviri ar ujdebodes. aqedan gamomdinare, maqsimaluri zRvari Semogvaqvs. es mTliani Sida produqtis 3,9 procentia da niSnavs, rom im ekonomikuri zrdidan gamomdinare, rac dRes gvaqvs, saSualebas mogvcems, Tavisufali resursis saxiT, daaxloebiT, 100-120 milioni lari gamovaTavisufloT da im socialuri programebisken da maT Soris, ganaTlebisken mivmarToT, romlebic, Cveni gadasaxedidan, ufro prioritetulia, – acxadebs baxtaZe.
sainteresoa, vin darCeba Zveli saxeebidan mamuka baxtaZis Semcirebul axal mTavrobaSi. vis gauRimebs fortuna da vis – ara, amas uaxloes momavalSi gavigebT, Tumca, opoziciisTvis da sazogadoebis erTi nawilisTvis miuRebeli iusticiis ministri Tea wulukiania. iTqva isic, rom Tu wulukians `gawiravs~ mmarTveli gundi, arc es ukanaskneli daixevs ukan…
ramdenad sarwmunoa yofili premieris wasvlis (Tu gaSvebis) oficialuri versia, ratom dadga dRis wesrigSi mcire mTavrobis koncefcia da ra Seicvleba saministroebis SemcirebiT? am da mkiTxvelisTvis saintereso sxva kiTxvebs `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrma, baTumis sakrebulos deputatma levan anTaZem da regionis sakanonmdeblo organos warmomadgenelma, umravlesobis deputatma daviT bacikaZem upasuxes.
– oligarqiuli mmarTveloba `qarTuli ocnebis~ stilia – Tanamdebobis pirebi pasuxismgeblebi ara xalxis da amomrCevlis, aramed erTi adamianis winaSe arian. premieri, prokurori, sus-is ufrosi iqneba Tu sasamarTlos Tavmjdomare – yvelas biZina ivaniSvili niSnavs da aTavisuflebs da es qveyanaSi arsebuli yvela problemis qvakuTxedia. rac Seexeba gaeros bavSvTa fondis (UNICEF) kvlevas, romliTac apelireben da romelic yovel or weliwadSi erTxel tardeba, am kvlevebiT Cven arCevnebisas vsargeblobdiT. 2016 wlis kvleviT, siRaribis zrda dafiqsirda, anu wina kvlevaSic is ewera, rac 2018 wels Caiwera da es axali ambavi ar iyo xelisuflebisTvis. qveyanaSi gazrdilia siRaribe da gvaqvs ekonomikuri vardna. apelireben, rom wels TiTqos saswauli moxda da 6-procentiani zrdaa. am maCvenebliT Sors ver wavalT. ase Tu gavagrZelebT, aseuli weli dagvWirdeba aRmosavleT evropis romelime qveyanas rom gavutoldeT. siRaribes mxolod socialuri daxmarebiT ver SeebrZolebi, es Tavis motyueba da drois gawelva iqneba. Tu socialur daxmarebas Tan erTvis ekonomikuri zrda, ra Tqma unda, es Sedegsac gamoiRebs. rac Seexeba saxel-gvarebs, Tu vis airCeven premierad an ministrebad, ra kursic iyo qveyanaSi, mainc is darCeba da araferi Seicvleba. Cven ukve vnaxeT saukeTeso me-4 weli, me-6 wels komunizmSi unda vyofiliyaviT, Tumca, realoba sul sxvaa, samwuxarod… `qarTul ocnebas~ mosaxleobaSi ndoba aqvs dakarguli da Zalismieri meTodebiT cdilobs xelisuflebis SenarCunebas. modiT, isic vTqvaT, ram gamoiyvana mosaxleoba quCaSi – usamarTlobis gancdam. faqtia, am wlebis ganmavlobaSi, maT Soris `nacionaluri moZraobis~ dros da Semdgomac, ar Seicvala sabWoTa Zalovani struqturebis mentaloba. igive biZina ivaniSvili da sxva bevric, xSir SemTxvevaSi, kanonis gverdis avliT moqmedeben. xalxis protestic amas ukavSirdeboda. qarTveli bunebiT amayia, socialuri kuTxiT raRacebs aitans, magram usamarTlobas ver Seegueba. saboloo jamSi mivalT iqamde, rom sistema gaswordeba, yvelaferi kanonierad da ara viRacebis gverdis avliT moxdeba, magram `qarTuli ocnebis~ xelSi amas didi dro dasWirdeba.
– batono levan, droebiTi mTavrobis Seqnas araerTgvarovani da xatovani Sedarebebi mohyva opoziciis mxridan. iTqva, rom ase saxaWapurec ki ar imarTeba… rom aurzauria biZinas kantoraSi… xelisufleba qveyanas ufskrulisken miaqanebs da sxva. Tqven ras fiqrobT, ras emsaxureba droebiTi mTavrobis Seqmna?
– Cemma megobarma feisbuqgverdze dawera, veTanxmebi mis mosazrebas da gavimeoreb: es aris premierobanas da mTavrobanas TamaSi, romelic emsaxureba erT adamians – biZina ivaniSvils. giorgi kvirikaSvils winaaRmdegobebi hqonia masTan da oligarqiuli mmarTveloba ver itans winaaRmdegobebs, alternatiul azrs Tundac sakuTari mxardamWerisgan.
– mcire mTavrobis koncefcia Tu mogwonT da ra Seicvleba saministroebis SemcirebiT?
– es Cven saarCevno programaSi gvqonda Cadebuli, vambobdiT, mTavroba unda iyos kompaqturi, maqsimalurad unda SeizRudos xarjebi. mamuka baxtaZes am ideaSi veTanxmebi. baTumis meriis magaliTze getyviT, 2012 wels saxelfaso xarji, sxva fufunebaze arafers vambob, 8 milioni lari iyo, 2017 wels – 20 milioni, axla 19 milioze metia da am sxvaobas didi maTematikis codna ar sWirdeba. aWaris jandacvis saministro, romelsac 2008 wlidan 2011 wlamde vxelmZRvanlobdi, Tavis droze 4 saministros bazaze Seiqmna, 1000-mde TanamSromeli muSaobda oTxive saministroSi da roca ministris postidan wamovedi, iq 62 adamiani davtove. faqtia, rom im aTasi adamianidan bevrma kerZo seqtorSi gadainacvla da saxelmwifosTvis dovlaTis Seqmna daiwyo. baTumis 2018 wlis biujetis ganxilvisas, 5-dRiani muSaobis Sedegad, 153 milionidan 26 milioni lari vnaxeT, romelic biujetis xarjviTi nawilidan SeiZleboda amogveRo da infrastruqturul samuSaoebze gadagvetana, rac efeqturi iqneboda ekonomikis ganviTarebisTvis, magram es ar gaakeTes. eWvi maqvs, arc axla, saministroebis gaerTianebidan morCenili TanxiT gaakeTeben rames. `qarTuli ocneba~ dapirebebis gacemazea orientirebuli da ara maT Sesrulebaze.
– rogor fiqrobT, vin darCeba baxtaZis ministrTa kabinetSi sami kviris Semdeg Zveli saxeebidan? opozicia Tea wulukianis da giorgi gaxarias gadadgomas iTxovs…
– giorgi gaxarias gadadgoma misi bolo gamosvlis Semdeg kidev ufro aqtiuri iqneba, magram Tea wulukiani aris adamiani, romelic boRmiT ikvebeba, rac mis gamosvlebSic Cans. ar SeiZleba mudmivad ukan viyurebodeT da niSnis mogebiT vsaubrobdeT, es ar unda iyos sajaro moxelis, miT ufro iusticiis ministris stili. Tea wulukiani, vfiqrob, axal ministrTa kabinetSi ar unda iyos, radgan didi wvlili miuZRvis im sistemis SeqmnaSi, romelic arc 2012 wlamde iyo idealuri. faqtia, biZina ivaniSvils gauWirdeba Tea wulukians Seelios. ise, pirovnulad wulukiani ar aris is tipaJi, romelic yvelaferze morCilad xris Tavs. Tu misTvis Tanamdebobis datoveba mZime travma iqneba, imis SiSic aqvT, ra Sedegebi mohyveba mis wasvlas, amitomac cdiloben wulukiani SeinarCunon. saboloo jamSi, ara mxolod wulukiani, mTeli mTavroba wava da oligarqiuli sistemac daingreva. xalxi iTxovda sistemis dangrevas da Sedegad miviReT, rom es ar Seicvleba, raSic Tea wulukians didi wvlili miuZRvis.
qveyanaSi rom kuluaruli mmarTveloba iyo da dasrulda, CvenTan saubarSi umaRlesi sabWos mmarTveli gundis wevri daviT bacikaZe ar malavs. mainc ras Seewira yofili premieri, ramdenad sarwmunoa misi Tanamdebobidan wasvlis versia an gaeros bavSvTa fondis daskvnis gamoqveynebamde xelisuflebam ar icoda, rom qveyanaSi siRaribe da umuSevroba iyo? am kiTxvebiT deputats mivmarTeT.
– batoni biZina ivaniSvili dRes partiis lideri, politikosi da gadawyvetilebebis erT-erTi mimRebia da kuluarul mmarTvelobaze saubaric dasrulebulia. giorgi kvirikaSvilis wasvlasTan dakavSirebiT rogorc yofilma premierma, ise partiis liderma erTi da igive Tqva. vis vendo, viRac mesames, vinc ar eswreboda am saubars? amitom, kvirikaSvilma azrTa uTanxmoebis gamo, miiRo gadawyvetileba. me mets verafers davamateb.
– batono daviT, Seasrula `qarTulma ocnebam~ is danapirebi, rac jer kidev 2012 wels winasaarCevnod gasca da Semdgom 2016 wels?
– Sors var im azrisgan, rom yvela dapireba SevasruleT. gasakeTebeli da samuSao kidev bevria. ise, 2012 wlis Semdeg, amomrCevelma meored gamogvicxada ndoba da or weliwad-naxevari kidev gvaqvs, rom `qarTulma ocnebam~ danapirebis umravlesi nawili Seasrulos. qveyanaSi rom siRaribea da memkvidreobiT gvergo meti Sroma, araxalia. nel-nela ukeTesobisken unda Seicvalos yvelaferi. umuSevrobis da siRaribis problema ara mxolod CvenisTana patara ekonomikis, aramed sakmaod didi tradiciebis, mdidar qveynebsac aqvT.
– ra Seicvleba saministroebis SerwymiT da ras moxmardeba gamoTavisuflebuli Tanxebi?
– kargia, rom es sakiTxi dRis wesrigSi dadga. wina, kvirikaSvilis mTavrobam saministroebi Seamcira, dRes ufro metad Semcirebazea saubari, rac swori gadawyvetilebaa. gamoTavisuflebuli Tanxebi, Cemi mosazrebiT, unda moxmardes infrastruqturul proeqtebs – gzebis dagebas, wylis, bunebrivi airis, kanalizaciis sistemis mowyoba-mowesrigebas. aqsiomaa, komunikaciebs moaqvs fuli. komunikaciebis gareSe ekonomika ver ganviTardeba.
– SesaZlebelia Tu ara pensiebis gazrda?
– SesaZlebelia da am sakiTxzec unda vifiqroT, marTalia, pensia ver gaizrdeba im doziT, rac `qarTuli ocnebis~ xelisuflebaSi mosvlis dros moxda, Tumca ekonomikuri zrda met fuls moitans da wels Tu 6,5-procentiani zrda gvaqvs, samomavlod metis molodini arsebobs.
– saministroebis Serwymas sajaro samsaxurebidan adamianebis gaTavisufleba mohyveba. rogor fiqrobT, es ukmayofilebas da umuSevarTa armiis gazrdas ar gamoiwvevs?
– saministroebSi zedmetad gaberili Statebia, bevri gvyavs e. w. yavis msmelebi, profesionalebi ki kerZo seqtorSi gadainacvleben – infrastruqturuli proeqtebis ganxorcielebas inJineri, menejeri, muSa da sxva specialistebi sWirdeba. gvakritikebdnen, rom gvyavda `yavis msmelebi~ da `arafris maqnisebi~ sajaro samsaxurebSi da marTlac arian aseTebi, sakmarisze metic da amaze araerTxel miTqvams.
– batono daviT, rogor fiqrobT, droebiTi mTavrobis Semdeg, vin SeiZleba vixiloT mamuka baxtaZis gundSi?
– es Cemi gadasawyveti araa da marCieloba gamomiva, saxel-gvarebis CamoTvla rom daviwyo. batoni mamuka baxtaZis prerogativaa, vin iqneba ministrTa kabinetis wevri. vfiqrob, Zveli ministrebi imsaxureben darCenas da muSaobis gagrZelebas.