დავით ჩხარტიშვილი: ,, სიხარულის ოდა” და ვადამდელი არჩევნები მირჩევნია ,, გედების ტბას”
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oqtombris saprezidento arCevnebi dasrulda, Tumca ara mmarTveli partiis mxardaWerili kandidatis salome zurabiSvilis sasargeblod. qveynis mosaxleobis azri orad, TiTqmis Tanabrad gaiyo, rac imaze metyvelebs, rom win saprezidento arCevnebis meore turi
gvelodeba
mainc ratom ver moaxerxa mmarTvelma gundma damajerebeli gamarjvebis mopoveba, sad dauSva Secdomebi? am da sxva saintereso sakiTxebze publicisti daviT CxartiSvili gvesaubreba.
– batono daviT, dasrulda saprezidento arCevnebi, Tumca win meore turia. rogor SeafasebT 28 oqtombris arCevnebs?
– meore turi tragikul movlenad ar mimaCnia, piriqiT, Tu grigol vaSaZe prezidenti gaxdeba, es ufro male daasamarebs `nacionalur moZraobas~. Tu ratom, amaze odnav mogvianebiT getyviT, manamde ki ufro marTebuli iqneboda, imaze gvesaubra, ratom moxda da xdeba ase. merwmuneT, es bevrad sainteresoa da mniSvnelovani, vidre `nacebis~ ukanaskneli gafarTxaleba.
– maSin gkiTxavT: rogor unda gaumklavdes xelisufleba xelis SemSlel faqtorebs, an ra tipis qveyanaSi vcxovrobT?
– `Cems ers bavSvebi Cagraven da diacebi ubatondebian. Cemo ero, Senma megzurebma dagabnies da gza-kvali agiries!~ – winaswarmetyvel esaias es sityvebi zedmiwevniT miesadageba arsebul viTarebas. arada, ramdeni saukunea gasuli da teritoriuladac ra Sors varT misi qveynidan. Tevzi Tavidan yroldebao! faqtia – iseT qveyanaSi vcxovrobT, sadac yofili policieli da `Savi gagebiT~ arifi, lamis `iaponCikas~ rols TamaSobs; sadac yvela drois meZavi erovnuli moRvawis imijs irgebs; sadac saSualo statistikur Tamadas Tavi perikle hgonia, xolo dabali socialuri pasuxismgeblobis qalebi morals gvikiTxaven teleekranebidan; sadac pativiscemaSia xazinis qurdi, imis gamo, rom sakulto nageboba miugdo dabeCavebul mrevls; sadac morodior generlebs Tavi napoleonebad moaqvT; sadac politpatimrebic ki feikia (SemTxveviT, rogorc stavrida – badeSi, cixeSi aRmoCenilan da mere muxlebze Sewyalebis mTxovnelebs Tavi nelson mandelad miaCniaT), qveynis orientiri ki, doqtrinis doneze, kanafis moyvana, bordelebis da kazinoebis mSeneblobaa. Semdeg iwyeba koleqtiuri TvalTmaqcuri vai-viSis periodebi zogadqarTuli masStabiT gacxadebuli am prioritetebis gverdiTi efeqtebis gamo. fuli ar yarda warmarTul romSi, Tumca oriaTaswlovani qristianuli tradiciis qveyanaSi – ki, da mere – rogor!
– am yvelaferSi damnaSave mTavrobaa Tu sxva Zalebi?
– erT did simulaciaSi aRmovCndiT yvelani eris megzurebis arakompetenturobis gamo, wina, imis wina da axlandeli xelisuflebac, radganac ver gamoaswora is algoriTmi, romelmac erT dros lamazi, mdidari da amayi qveyana miiyvana am mdgomareobamde. masais afrikuli tomis SvilebiviT gamovewyobiT xolme erovnul samosSi da vumReriT turists, zafxulobiT binebs vaqiravebT da stumrebs vemalebiT, qalebs investorebs mivuwvenT, cxovrebis am wess modurad vacxadebT da momdevno Taobasac vRupavT. am dakninebul mdgomareobaSi damnaSaves isev da isev mxolod kavkasionis gaRma – CrdiloeTisken veZebT da araTu ar gvinda Tavs gamovutydeT, rom ase cudad varT, piriqiT, amas warmatebad vasaRebT. ilias, vaJas, daviTis da Tamaris eri boSebis banakis prioritetebiT vxelmZRvanelobT. Rimilis momgvrelia, am mdgomareobas normad rom gvisaRebs mavani, yvela danaSaulsa Tu Secdomas ruseTs rom abralebs, faseulobebis da tradiciebis devalvacias ocdameerTe saukuniT da evropaSi arsebuli tendenciebiT xsnis, ver xedavs sxvaobas CoxaSi gamowyobil Tanamedrove masxarasa da qarTvel rainds Soris, qveyanaSi formasa da Sinaarss Soris sruli konfliqtia da Zala araa amis damZlevi… jerjerobiT!
– Tqveni aseTi pozicia Coxosnebs xom ar gaanawyenebs?
– maT es yvelaze naklebad exebaT, arada, maTSic bevri `falSia~. TumcaRa davizRvev Tavs da eqstrapolaciis xerxs mivmarTav, rom sworad gamigon saTqmeli. magaliTisTvis, 260 wels sparta velurma gerulebis tomebma daamarcxes. amis Semdeg igi sakuTari Tavis erTgvar parodiad, didebuli warsulis muzeumad iqca. plutarqe asi wlis Semdeg werda, rom xedavda, rogor Soltavdnen spartel biWebs turistebis gasarTobad da mosazidad. ase icvleba Zveli dideba, vaJkacoba rigiT turistul startapad. CvenTan gana sxvagvaradaa?! ai, meore magaliTic – iaponiaSi meiZis revoluciis Semdeg samuraebs aekrZalaT formiT siaruli, aman janyi gamoiwvia, rac umalve CaaxSo aSS-ze orientirebulma imperatorma. ra ggoniaT, sad wavidnen es samuraebi? ki ar gaqrnen – gaxdnen mexanZreebi, maswavleblebi, policielebi, jariskacebi, saxelmwifo mosamsaxureebi da Tavisi qcevis kodeqsi, suliskveTeba axal saqmeSi Cades. ase aSenda es ultraTanamedrove da lamazi qveyana – Zveli suliT da axali teqnologiebiT.
– gamosavals raSi xedavT?
– sanam mesame centri ar Seiqmneba, anu `qarTuli ocnebis~, `burjanaZe – gaerTianebuli demokratebis~ da `patriotTa aliansis~ (moxaruli viqnebi, Tu am erTobas usufaSvilic SeuerTdeba, Tugind ivaniSvilic, oRond bevrad pasiuri formiT) mxardamWerebis jansaRi nawilis gaerTianeba ver moxerxdeba, araferi gamova. sanam Tamami ideuri garRvevebis potenciiT, mwyobri da axal SexedulebaTa sistemiT, qarTul erovnul interesebze orientirebuli, ura-patriotizmze da sazogadoebis fragmentaciis mcdelobazec ki acrili gaerTianeba ar gamoCndeba, romelic amave dros ultraTanamedrove teqnologiebis mcodne da damnergavia, sanam 90-ianebidan (da ara 2003-idan) ar daiwyeba samarTlianobis aRdgena, sanam `mrgvali magidis~ formatSi 90-ianebidan moyolebuli yvela daSvebuli Secdomis keTilsindisier analizs ver SevZlebT, sanam afxazs (da ara `afsuas~, rogorc Cveni ura-patriotebi eZaxian) da oss ver davanaxebT, rom aRar varT 90-ianebis, arc ultraliberaluri – narkomanebis da meZavebis samWedlo qveyana, sanam moskovs ar davelaparakebiT `bez durakov~, sanam sxvis geopolitikur TamaSSi paikis rolis Sesrulebaze uars ar vityviT, sanam mesiebad aRar movnaTlavT pirvel pirebs da WeSmariti respublikuri ideebiT (`proxodnoi dvoris~ nacvlad) israelisa da Sveicariis msgavsi qveynis mSeneblobas ar wamoviwyebT, an germanelebiviT zogad erovnul doneze kaTarziss ar ganvicdiT, araferi gamova, garda rbolisa morig mojadoebul wreze.
– gadametebulad muq ferebSi xom ar xatavT realobas? SeiZleba iTqvas, yvelaferi arcTu ise cudadaa – bevri ram Sendeba, festivalebi imarTeba, turizmi viTardeba…
– koncertebs da taS-fandurs rac Seexeba, amaze erTi amerikeli ganmanaTleblis benjamin franklinis igavi `sastveni~ gamaxsenda. is mogviTxrobs, rom pataraobisas, dabadebis dReze aCuqes dolariani da roca maRaziaSi dainaxa, rogor ustvenda erTi didi biWi sastveniT, radganac meti aRar iyo maRaziaSi, iyida es sastveni dolarad. saxlSi dabrunebuls ufrosma debma da Zmebma dascines – aRmoCnda, rom am fuliT is iyidda ara erT, aramed bevr sastvens, ubralod, moatyues. mere mTeli cxovrebis ganmavlobaSi ixsenebda, Tu rogor daujda bevrad Zviri is, rasac daxarbda. mudam imeorebda, rom adamianebis mTavari problemaa, Zalian Zvirs rom ixdian sastvenebSi. qarTvelebi epataJis moyvaruli xalxi varT, mTeli Cveni uaxlesi istoria am `sastvenebSi~ gadayrili Tanxebia. xedavT garRvevebs ekonomikis, kulturis, socialuri sferos kuTxiT, an afxazeTisa Tu cxinvalis mimarTulebiT? satelevizio propagandis prizmaSi ki masea da raRac nawils `sastvenebis~ moyvarul upasuxismgeblo da axlomxedvel segments es, ra Tqma unda, xiblavs. TumcaRa ager Unicef-is kvlevis mixedviT, sxva suraTs vxedavT. saqarTveloSi mosaxleobis 69 procenti Raribia, 24 – siRaribis zRvarTan axlos, saSualo klass ki mxolod 7 procenti warmoadgens. principSi, kvlevac araa saWiro, gavideT quCebSi, iq, im teritoriebze, romelic obieqtivs miRma rCeba xolme da ultraTanamedrove baTumis nacvlad, romelsac saakaSvilis droidan moyolebuli, milioniani sareklamo kampaniebis wyalobiT vxedavT da romlis savizito baraTs ramdenime ufunqcio, sxvadasxva rakursiT gadaRebuli caTambjeni warmoadgens, davinaxavT erT dros marTlac multifunqciuri da Zlieri qalaqis nangrevebs – aRmovCndebiT bangladeSSi, arada, lamis baTumelebmac ki davijereT turistebze gaTvlili baTumis satelevizio imijis. gaxsovT, albaT, Turq nobeliant mweralze gabrazebuli qarTuli segmenti – rogor gvakadra qarTvelebis ase daxasiaTebao. famuqze brazi igivea, sarkes rom gavubrazdeT, Tavs vpozicionirebT me-19, me-20 saukunis msoflio literaturaSi damkvidrebuli qarTvelis xat-suraTiT, TumcaRa karga xania, aRar gvaqvs is qarTveloba, romelic aRfrTovanebas iwvevda sxvadasxva juris mweralSi da maRal literaturasac Tavi rom davaneboT, gana yoveldRiurad araa Cvens saxelTan dakavSirebuli qurdoba, yaCaRoba Tu meZavoba?.. da am imijiT gvinda davibrunoT afxazi Tu osi, `kavkasiuri bordelis~ saxeliT vibrunebT iseT tradiciul da patriarqalur sazogadoebebs, rogoricaa afxazuri Tu osuri, anda im futuristuli winadadebebiT, rac ipodromisa Tu sastumros mSeneblobebs iTvaliswinebs administraciul sazRvarze cxinvalTan Tu soxumTan? sasaciloa, Tavsac vityuebT da isinic amreziT gviyureben amis gamo.
– biZina ivaniSvilma cvlilebebi daaanonsa. saprezidento arCevnebidan erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi TvalSisacemi garRvevebi unda moxdes.
– Zvel aTenSi arsebobdnen e.w. farmakebi, `gantevebis vacebi~. am sawyal xalxs inaxavdnen specialurad msxverplSewirvisTvis SimSilis, epidemiis an sxva forsmaJoruli situaciis dros. farmaks unda STaenTqa dagrovili sibinZure, Seesruta saxelmwifoSi arsebuli negatiuri energia… mokled, sajaro ritualuri gakicxvis Semdeg mas an klavdnen, an gandevnidnen koleqtiurad. es araa sakmarisi. Tavad sistema dalpa, fundamenturi cvlilebebia saWiro da ara erTi favoritis meoriT Canacvleba, miT ufro, rom faqtia, sakadro politika ivaniSvilis yvelaze susti mxarea. daakvirdiT, feisbuki aq lakmusis qaRaldia – erTi da igive xalxi, 2012 wlidan moyolebuli, erTi da igive maneriT xotbas asxams da alaiqebs, aziarebs xabaZis, pataraZis, riJvaZis postebs. awinaureben kidec. maT, sinamdvileSi sul cal fexze hkidiaT samSoblo da baTumic. mTeli maTi damsaxureba isaa, rom Tavis droze ofisebSi isxdnen. mere mokida viRacam xeli da dasva raRac adgilze, anda viRacis an misi colis naTesavebi aRmoCndnen da iqamde Tu miSa iyo, axla griSaa da masac iseve efinebian fiandazad. rogorc ki icvleboda patroni, winas esrodnen kvercxebs da Tavs reJimis msxverplad asaRebdnen utifrad. aArada, `cali kaloSiT~ mosulebma maT dros iSoves fulic da xalxmac gaicno. mokled, aq mTeli wrea mankieri. Amisi pirveli mizezi sakadro SimSilia, meore – msoflmxedvelobiTi disonansi. pirveli mudmivi qarTuli senia. isev istoriul magaliTs mogiyvanT, im periodidan didad araferi Secvlila. msoflio omebgamovlili oficeri aleqsandre sulxaniSvili Tavis mogonebebSi Jordanias droindeli saqarTvelos sazogadoebriv da samxedro mdgomareobas ase ixsenebda: `omgamovlil mxedrebs saaziacke fexze qalamani gvecva da bostnebs vToxnidiT, xolo armia-gvardias parikmaxerebi da meqiseebi meTaurobdnen~. am mdgomareobas verafriT Secvli Tu `parikmaxerebs da meqiseebs~ isev menSevikuri wridan gamoiyvan da ara oficrobis wiaRidan. mudam 9 welze ilaparako, Tanac imave 9 wlis miRwevebiT iamayo da Senad gaasaRo, nonsensia. gadaxedeT mmarTveli gundis wevrTa mesij-boqsebs. igive xelwera, igive Stampebi da ratom, Tu iciT? `piarSikebad~ hyavT gaunaTlebeli, msoflmxedvelobrivad Sav-TeTrad moazrovne miSisti kadrebi. isini sxvagvarad, ubralod, ver dainaxaven. `miSizmi~ rodia mxolod mixeil saakaSvilis partiis wevroba, es faseulobaTa da xedvis kuTxeTa erTobliobaa, erTi refleqsia ama Tu im sakvanZo sakiTxze, magaliTad – movlenebze siriaSi, ukrainaSi, natosa Tu TurqeTisadmi damokidebulebaSi da ase Semdeg. isini yvelgan arian, isinia dRes sistema, radgan axalma xelisuflebam ver moaxerxa Seeqmna `miSizmis~ sapirwone ideologia. ideologia ki ara, monaxazic ki sakuTari mesij-boqsisTvis miSas droindelia, aRar vsaubrob saxelmwifo doqtrinaze, romelic pirvel rigSi iyo Sesacvleli. es xdeba yvelgan da, Sors rom ar wavideT, aWaras da nacnob landSafts daakvirdiT.`nacionaluri partiis~ da imJamindeli jibis televiziebis mediasaxeebs vxedavT dResac. vinc Tavis droze saxels ufuWebda varSalomiZis mTavrobas da `nacionalur moZraobas~, dRes `ocnebis~ yvelaze aqtiur wevrebad gvevlinebian da ukve axali xelisuflebis saxeliT sCadian unamusobas. karieras friad warmatebulad agrZeleben da iqiT gedavebian `miSizmSi~, rom kvali arion. mxolod `nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebze rodi maqvs saubari, aslanis dros korufciaSi SemCneuli kadrebi, mere ki, miSas dros daniSnuli `opoziciad~ da Sekrulni `susTan~, dRes `ocnebis~ saxeliT gvelaparakebian, aslans vinc mistiris, demokratiaze da muSaobis axal stilze gvesaubreba. Seucnobelia gzebi Seni, ufalo! sinamdvileSi erTi suli aqvT, rodis miuSveben sakenkTan, refleqsebi ar icvleba, Tandayolilia. es mojadoebuli wrea da misi daniSnuleba isaa, rom raime Zvra ar moxdes am kuTxiT aWaraSi. yvelaferi ki, ra Tqma unda, braldeba ivaniSvils – maT xom aranairi pasuxismgeloba ar akisriaT, rogorc movidnen arsaidan, iseve wavlen arsaiT. Tumca moaswreben mainc da CaZiraven imaT, visTvisac saakaSvilis Camogdeba Tavis droze Rirsebis sakiTxi iyo. mokled, unda Seicvalos wre – sistema da ara, ubralod, figurebi. zemoT Sevadare es mTavroba menSevikurs da davZen imasac, rom Tavis droze ruseTSi bolSevikebs mefe ar CamougdiaT, maT menSevikebi Caanacvles, romlebmac manamde – mefe. sanam ruseTSi `TeTri moZraoba~ Camoyalibda, mofxizlda da dairazma menSevikebis winaaRmdeg, bolSevikebma `meqiseebiT da parikmaxerebiT~ dakompleqtebuli social-demokratebis uunaro da uideo mTavroba Camoagdes. vinaidan, CvenTan bolSevikebis roli `nacionalurma moZraobam~ Seasrula, albaT, gasagebia, ratom unda mofxizldes `TeTri moZraobis~ msgavsi – qarTuli mesame Zala. mokled, saqarTvelos, mis winaSe dRes mdgari amocanebis gaTvaliswinebiT, rogorc arasodes ise sWirdeba `sixarulis oda~ da ara `gedebis tba~ da am arCevnebis Sedegebidan gamomdinare – vadamdeli arCevnebi. Waobi da uZraobis xana unda damTavrdes am qveyanaSi da miT ufro – aWaraSi, sadac `ocnebam~ pirwmindad waago. amis gakeTeba mxolod mesame Zalas SeuZlia. Tavis droze, roca iseT ajafsandals qmnida, rogoric `qarTuli ocnebaa~, ivaniSvili ar iyo Tavisufali arCevanSi, magram swored mas SeuZlia, daaCqaros aseTi Zalebis axali konfiguracia, is nebismier SemTxvevaSi Seiqmneba da sjobs iyos maTTan, vidre Cayves im xalxs, visTanac mas araferi akavSirebs garda situaciuri erTobisa 2012 wlis mdgomareobis gamo.
– udavoa, uamravi gamowvevis winaSe vdgavarT, bevri niuansia, rTuli suraTia qarTul politikur velze. rogor fiqrobT, mainc ra aris is mTavari principi, rac arsebuli mdgomareobidan gamogviyvanda? minda ufro konkretuli iyoT da aWaris magaliTze visaubroT.
– cnobilia, rom yoveli movlena mravali faqtoris urTierTqmedebis Sedegia. saqarTvelosTvis msoflmxedvelobiTi krizisi araorganulia Cveni qveynis bunebisTvis ucxo mizezebis gamo da maTi gradacia Zalian didia, dawyebuli lgbt teroridan arasamTavroboebis mxidan, damTavrebuli `warmatebuli~ dabali pasuxismgeblobis mqone qalebis mozvavebiT ekranebze, romlebic orientirs `qmnian~ momavali TaobisTvis… da sxva bevri ram, rac keTilTvisebian xorcmets, papilomas, avTvisebian melanomad aqcevs. iciT, ratom xdeba ase? organizmi aRar aRiqvams mas ucxod da sustdeba Tavdacva – imunuri sistema, erT dros uvnebeli da SeumCneveli xorcmeti iwyebs SeuzRudav gamravlebas da sabolood iqceva melanomad, Tu dawyebiT etapzeve ar amokveTe. es melanomaa dRes `miSizmi~ da fesvebi Zalian Rrmad aqvs gadgmuli `ocnebaSic~, rom aRaraferi vTqvaT mediaze, Zalovnebze da ase Semdeg.
– aki saubris daswyisSi TqviT, rom meore turi tragikul movlenad ar migaCniaT…
– geTanxmebiT, magram sworad rom aRiqvaT Cemi naTqvami, Zmebi strugackebis romanidan `rTulia iyo RmerTi~ citatiT gipasuxebT: `roca ruxebi mTavrobaSia, xelisuflebaSi modian Savebi~. `nacionalebs~ aravin miuSvebs xelisuflebaSi da es ukve mxolod qarTvel amomrCevelze aRaraa damokidebuli, amitomac am etapze Tavs avarideb detalur pasuxs, radganac Sors wagviyvans da oriode sityviT aq ver gamoZvrebi, danarCens dro unda, manamde ki kargad unda gaverkveT kidev erT rameSi, iciT ra aris Cveni qveynis yvelaze didi problema? is, rom uaxloes istoriaSi ar gvyolia gamaerTianebeli liderebi. oTxi prezidenti gvyavda, male mexuTe gveyoleba da arc erTis mimarT ar arsebobda sruli sazogadoebrivi konsensusi, arc erTs miesadageba `mama-damfuZneblis~ tituli, ise, rogorc magaliTad, ben-gurionze, moSe daianze, naserze an benjamin franklinze amboben TavTavianT qveynebSi. Cvens yovel liders ki, dResac bevri momxre, magram ufro meti mowinaaRmdege hyavs da erTaderT SemakavSirebel rgolad am jaWvSi isev e.w. evroatlantikuri idea rCeba, romelic, Tavis mxriv, ikvebeba okeanis gaRmidan patronis finansebiT. Zlieri figurebi saWadrako dafaze rodis gveyoleba? sanam yvela qarTuli Zala ar Sejerdeba saerTo da axal doqtrinaze, axali saxeebiTa da qcevis modelebiT, SegviZlia ilias ideebiT vixelmZRvaneloT da aramc da aramc miSasi, an aw ukve SokmiRebuli da reformaciisaTvis mza `ocnebis~ Zveli midgomebiT.
