,, ხალხი ელოდება ცვლილებებს და ახალ იდეებს “
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28 oqtombers saqarTvelos mosaxleobas pirdapiri wesiT bolojer unda aerCia qveynis prezidenti. Tumca, faqti saxezea, prezidentobis msurvelTa vrceli siidan gamarjveba verc erTma kandidatma moaxerxa. amdenad, qveynis mTavarsardals arCevnebis meore turSi 6 wlis vadiT avirCevT. erTmaneTs gaerTianebuli opoziciisa da mmarTveli gundis kandidatebi daupirispirdebian. arCevnebis meore turis gamarTvamde, 28 oqtombris arCevnebis da zogadad, qveyanaSi arsebuli politikuri situaciis Sefaseba politolog aslan lorTqifaniZes vTxoveT.
– batono aslan, rogor SeafasebT 28 oqtombris saprezidento arCevnebs da im Sedegebs, rac orma, erTmaneTTan dapirispirebulma kandidatma aCvena?
– 28 oqtombris arCevnebi iyo qarTuli demokratiis morigi gamarjveba. saqarTveloSi pirvelad tardeba saprezidento arCevnebis meore turi, rac demokratiis xarisxis zrdaze mianiSnebs. iyo garkveuli xarvezebi da calkeuli proceduruli darRvevebi, rasac saboloo Sedegze gavlena ar mouxdenia. yvela saerTaSoriso organizaciam saprezidento arCevnebis pirveli turis Catarebas maRali Sefaseba misca, rac Cveni qveynis warmatebaa. maTi SeniSvnebi, ZiriTadad, Seexeboda polarizebul mediasaSualebebs, siZulvilis enis gamoyenebas, araTanabar finansur resursebs, saprezidento kandidatebis mier koordinatorebis mobilizebas saubno komisiebTan, rasac kanoni ar krZalavs da sxva. arCevnebis meore turi moulodneli aravisTvis yofila. mis SesaZlo gamarTvaze saubrobda yvela kandidati, mmarTveli partiac ar gamoricxavda mis SesaZlo Catarebas. aseve, TiTqmis yvela prognozirebda, rom saxelisuflebo kandidati pirvel adgils, xolo yofili saxelisuflebo partiis – meore adgils daikavebda. am arCevnebis moulodneloba `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ saprezidento kandidatis mier miRebuli xmebis raodenoba gaxda. es Sedegi am opoziciuri partiisTvisac ki siurprizi aRmoCnda, ramac gauqro revoluciuri miswrafebebi, romlisTvisac aqtiurad emzadeboda.
– rogori SeiZleba iyos meore turi? savaraudod, romel kandidats aqvs meti Sansi da ratom? ra upiratesoba SeiZleba hqondes grigol vaSaZes, ra SeiZleba iyos misi `koziri~? ra Sedegs dadebs mmarTveli gundis mxardaWerili kandidati?
– orive kandidats aqvs meore turis win upiratesobebi. opoziciur kandidats mxardaWeras ucxadebs mesame Sedegis mqone politikuri partia `evropuli saqarTvelo~, romelmac 11 procentis aReba moaxerxa. aseve mis mxaresaa fsiqologiuri upiratesoba, rac saqarTvelos yvela did qalaqSi misi mogebiTaa ganpirobebuli. rogorc opoziciuri, ise mmarTveli partiis kandidatebi, calke aRebuli, eleqtoratis TvalsazrisiT aranair resurss qmnian da ufro metic, isini problemebs uqmnian orive politikur Zalas. ar aris gamoricxuli, `qarTuli ocnebis~ im eleqtoratis nawilma, romelmac, ganawyenebulma, pirvel turSi mxari dauWira `nacionaluri moZraobis~ kandidats, pozicia Seicvalos da mmarTveli partiis eleqtorats daubrundes, an ar mivides arCevnebze. mmarTvel partias opozicioneri kandidatisgan gansxvavebiT rezervi aqvs armisuli amomrCevlebis urnebamde miyvanis TvalsazrisiT. aseve, mas mxars dauWers `patriotTa aliansis~, `qarTuli marSis~ da nino burjanaZis eleqtoratis umravlesoba, rac ganpirobebuli iqneba `nacionalur moZraobasTan~ maTi Seurigebeli damokidebulebiT. Tu amas daemateba mmarTveli partiis menejmentis efeqturobis zrda da maqsimaluri mobilizeba, salome zurabiSvils meore turSi gamarjvebis didi Sansi eqneba.
– is, rom `evropuli saqarTvelo~ meore turSi mxars gaerTianebuli opoziciis kandidats dauWerda, arCevnebis Sedegebis gamocxadebamdec cxadi iyo. dRes isic viciT, rom grigol vaSaZes `respublikuri~ partiac amoudga mxarSi. ras Secvlis meore turSi es mxardaWera?
– bevrs hgonia, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobisa~ da `evropuli saqarTvelos~ gaerTianeba meore turis win niSnavs maTi procentuli maCveneblebis avtomaturad dajamebas, rac ase ar aris. `evropuli saqarTvelos~ eleqtoratis nawilisTvis SeiZleba miuRebeli aRmoCndes `nacionaluri moZraobisTvis~ mxardaWera, iseve, rogorc – piriqiT. Tumca am ori partiis winasaarCevnod gaerTianeba opoziciuri kandidatis procentul maCvenebels mainc gazrdis, oRond ara ariTmetikul jamamde. respublikuri partiis mxardaWera ki `nacionaluri moZraobisaTvis~ eleqtoratis TvalsazrisiT bevrs arafers niSnavs misi Zalian dabali reitingis gamo.
– ra Secdoma dauSva mmarTvelma gundma saprezidento arCevnebSi?
– mmarTvelma partiam Secdomebis daSveba saprezidento arCevnebamde didi xniT adre daiwyo. misi mTavari Secdoma iyo yofil saxelisuflebo manqanaSi mxolod mcire `SekeTebis~ Semdeg gadajdoma da misi marTvis mcdeloba. Zveli sistema saWiroebda mniSvnelovan `rebrendings~, rac mosaxleobis umravlesobis winasaarCevno dakveTac iyo. axalma xelisuflebam ver SeZlo meore mTavari dapirebis Sesruleba – samarTlianobis damkvidreba, rac ukavSirdeba pirvel mizezs. wina xelisuflebis bevri warmomadgenlis SesaZlo danaSau-lebebis gamo, mxolod ramdenime aTeuli adamiani mieca pasuxisgebaSi. aravis surda masobrivi represiebi da angariSsworebebi qveyanaSi, magram `qarTuli ocnebis~ eleqtorats imedi hqonda politikuri gavlenebisgan Tavisufali sasamarTlo sistemis formirebisa da mis winaSe yvela SesaZlo damnaSavis wardgomisa. axalma xelisuflebam didwilad uari Tqva mis TanamebrZolebTan erTad qveynis marTvaze da prioriteti mianiWa wina xelisuflebis `yofil~ kadrebs. am sakadro resursis umravlesoba dRes sajaro samsaxurebSi, maT Soris Zalovan struqturebSi, eweva sabotaJs. aravin iTxovda saxelisuflebo struqturebidan adamianTa masobriv daTxovnas, es usamarTloba iqneboda, magram `qarTuli ocnebis~ eleqtorats hqonda imedi, rom sakvanZo, daniSvniT da arCeviT Tanamdebobebze im adamianebs gaamwesebdnen, romlebic, rogorc minimum, ar asocirdebodnen moZalade reJimTan. gatarda mniSvnelovani reformebi socialur da jandacvis sferoSi, maT Soris sayovelTao jandacvis programis amoqmedebis gziT, Tumca mosaxleobis umravlesobisaTvis socialuri foni mainc mZime rCeba da sxva. mmarTveli partiis gadawyvetileba, mxari daeWira damoukidebeli kandidatisaTvis da aRar hqonoda am institutze kontrolis survili, iyo uaRresad demokratiuli, Tamami da swori gadawyvetileba, romelic dasavleTSic pozitiurad aRiqves. Tumca reitinguli kandidatis SerCevis SemTxvevaSi mas is problemebi aRar Seeqmneboda, rac vnaxeT pirvel turSi. uamravi Secdoma iqna daSvebuli saarCevno Stabebis muSaobis procesSi. maTi CamoTvla Sors wagviyvans da saWiroebs ufro Rrma analizsac. aRar imuSava da arc meore turis winasaarCevno kampaniis dros iqneba efeqturi mxolod 9-wliani mmarTvelobis mxilebis kampania. xalxi elodeba cvlilebebs da axal ideebs, rac mis momavals ukavSirdeba. kargi iqneba, Tu mmarTveli partia am sakiTxze gaamaxvilebs yuradRebas da eleqtorats SesTavazebs momavlis realistur xedvas. kampanias ki aagebs pozitiur gzavnilebze da uars ityvis negatiur, warsulze orientirebul saarCevno kampaniaze.
– mediam ra roli iTamaSa arCevnebSi?
– aWaraSi am mxriv idealurTan Zalian miaxloebuli situacia gvaqvs. regionSi moqmedi yvela mediasaSualebis saredaqcio damoukidebloba aris uzrunvelyofili da Sesabamisad, dabalansebuli, rac naklebad iTqmis centralur mediasaSualebebze. ori wamyvani centraluri televizia mkveTrad polarizebulia. Tumca gvaqvs araerTi dabalansebuli saredaqcio politikis matarebeli centraluri sainformacio saSualeba. zogadad, mediapluralizmi qveyanaSi uzrunvelyofilia da misi Sedarebac ki ar SeiZleba 2013 wlamde arsebul periodTan, rac moqmedi xelisuflebis yvelaze didi warmatebaa. qarTulma mediam met-naklebad uzrunvelyo saprezidento kandidatebis da misi mxardamWerebis gzavnilebis mitana amomrCevlebamde. ukve meramdene arCevnebia, rac maqsimalurad gaxsnilia mediasivrce opozicioneri kandidatebisaTvis. winasaarCevnod medias araerTi qarTuli da ucxouri organizacia akvirdeboda, davelodoT maT angariSebs. maT pretenziebi, ZiriTadad, eqnebaT partiuli mediasaSualebebis muSaobis mimarT. am arCevnebze didi roli socialurma mediam da zogadad, socialurma qselebma iTamaSa. Jurnalistebma didi Zalisxmeva Cades winasaarCevno procesis gaSuqebaSi. maTi didi nawili 24 saaTis ganmavlobaSi muSaobda.
– batono aslan, is amomrCeveli, vinc saxlSi darCa da arCevnebze ar mivida, rogor fiqrobT, vis dauWers mxars Tu arCevnebze miva da rogor unda moaxerxon saprezidento kandidatebma meore turisTvis maTi mobilizeba?
– Cven araerTxel gviTqvams, rom ramdenime welia, rac Cveni eleqtoratis daaxloebiT naxevari arc erTi politikuri partiis mxardamWeri araa. darCenil naxevars ki, ZiriTadad, ori didi finansuri, organizaciuli da mediaresursis matarebeli partia inawilebs. bolo arCevnebma gvaCvena, rom `nacionaluri moZraobisa~ da misi mokavSire `evropuli saqarTvelos~ eleqtoratis zrda `qarTuli ocnebis~ eleqtoratis xarjze moxda. es iyo mmarTvel partiaze gabrazebuli xmebi da ara `nacionaluri moZraobis~ mxardamWeri eleqtorati, romlis xmebi am opoziciuri partiis yulabaSi mxolod SurisZiebis surviliT aRmoCnda. maTma nawilma SeiZleba gaiazros, rom amgvari grZnobiT gakeTebulma arCevanma SeiZleba uaresi Sedegebi moutanos qveyanas, amitom meore turSi daubrundes `ocnebis~ eleqtorats, an SesaZloa Tavi Seikavos arCevnebSi monawileobisagan, anu `nacionalur moZraobas~ eleqtoratis zrdis aranairi resursi aRar aqvs meore turSi, garda `evropuli saqarTvelos~ xmebis nawiliT Sevsebisa. saxelisuflebo partias ki SeuZlia pasiuri 50-procentiani eleqtoratidanac xmebis nawili miiRos, Tu mas saintereso, mimzidveli da realisturi SeTavazebebi eqneba maTTvis. Tumca es ar iqneba iolad mosapovebeli xmebi. es adamianebi, ZiriTadad, lukma-puris SovniT arian dakavebulebi da naklebad ainteresebT is politikuri partiebi, romlebzec xeli ramdenime welia Caiqnies da elodebian sasurveli politikuri Zalis gamoCenas. am tipis eleqtoratis didi nawili sulac ucxoeTSia da iq droebiT muSaobs. am mizeziT ki maT saarCevno siebidan veravin amoiRebs.
– `qarTulma ocnebam~ gundis gadaxaliseba daaanonsa, ras miscems es svla mmarTvel gunds?
– rTulia am reitingis pirobebSi mmarTvelma partiam avtoritetuli, woniani kadrebi partiaSi Semosvlaze daiTanxmos. Tumca es gza ualternativo gzaa da aqtiurad unda imuSaos am mimarTulebiT. mmarTvel partiaSi Tavidanve umravlesobas qmnidnen medrove da uinteleqto kadrebi, romlebic yvela meTodiT ebrZodnen am partiis umciresobas anu saR nawils da yovelTvis imarjvebdnen maTze. `qarTulma ocnebam~ saparlamento da aWaris umaRlesi sabWos arCevnebis win SeZlo partiaSi SedarebiT avtoritetuli, kompetenturi kadrebis nawilis mozidva saparlamento siebSi Casmis dainteresebiT. es procesi ki Semdeg aRar gaagrZela da ufro metic, partiuli muSaoba arCevnebis Semdeg SeaCera, aqamde Catarebuli yvela arCevnebis Semdgomi periodis msgavsad. politikuri partiis mxolod qaRaldze arsebobam is Sedegi moitana, rom sakadro gadawyvetilebebi aRmasrulebel xelisuflebaSi miiReboda spontanurad, nacnoboba-megobrobis principiT. amgvarad moziduli kadrebi ki ar efuZneba saerTo politikur ideologias da maT ar anaRvlebT mmarTveli partiis bedi, radgan maTi nawili Tanamdebobaze ara maRali kompetenciis an partiaSi gamoCenili aqtiurobis, aramed iRblis wyalobiT moxvda. ufro metic, maTi nawili opoziciuri eleqtoratidanaa, an ukeTes SemTxvevaSi, pirvelive saxelisuflebo ryevis SemTxvevaSi aRmoCndeba momaval saxelisuflebo partiaSi, Tu am etapze piradi interesiT uWers mxars moqmed xelisuflebas, anu mmarTveli politikuri partiis verCamoyalibebam gamoiwvia is, rom mas imaze meti administraciuli resursi ar aqvs, vidre opozicias. yvela arCevnebis win saubaria partiis ganaxlebaze, Tumca Tu am process efeqturi partiuli muSaoba ar mohyveba, moziduli sakadro resursis funqcia partiaSi ubralod ver iqneba. eleqtorati iTxovs siaxleebs da xelisuflebis efeqturobis zrdas. am mimarTulebiT qmediTi nabijebis gadadgma xelisuflebas gaaZlierebs.
– rogor aisaxeba amJamindeli saprezidento arCevnebis Sedegi 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebze?
– saprezidento arCevnebi saparlamento arCevnebis repeticiad SeiZleba ganvixiloT. mas sxva datvirTva naklebad aqvs, radgan qveyana am arCevnebis Semdeg srulad gadadis mmarTvelobis saparlamento modelze da prezidenti mxolod saxelmwifos meTauri iqneba. arsebiTi da gadamwyveti mniSvneloba ar aqvs imas, Tu vin moigebs saprezidento arCevnebs. mmarTveli partiis xelmZRvaneli am arCevnebSi armonawileobis variantsac ganixilavda. `qarTul ocnebas~ da mis eleqtorats am arCevnebisgan mxolod is interesi hqonda (aqvs), rom ar movides `nacionaluri moZraobis~ an masTan dakavSirebuli partiebis kandidati prezidentis postze ori mizezis gamo: ar mieca damatebiTi tribuna maTTvis da ar momxdariyo maTi yofili Tanamdebobis pirebis aministireba, romlebsac politikuri patimrebis niRbiT fuTaven. momaval saparlamento arCevnebamde 2 welia darCenili da am periodSi bevri ram SeiZleba Seicvalos. es arCevnebi masze gadamwyvet zegavlenas ver moaxdens, Tumca kargi stimulia gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi.
– aris Tu ara mosalodneli xelisuflebaSi axali Zalis mosvla?
– politikaSi araferia gamoricxuli. Tumca am etapze mesame politikuri Zala, romelsac pasiuri 50-procentiani eleqtorati elodeba, horizontzec ki ar Cans. damoukideblobis mopovebidan dRemde vcxovrobT myife, orpartiuli sistemis pirobebSi. `mrgvali magida~ da `komunisturi partia~, `mrgvali magida~ da maSindeli gaerTianebuli opozicia, `moqalaqeTa kavSiri~ da `aRorZineba~, `moqalaqeTa kavSiri~ da `nacmoZraoba~, `nacmoZraoba~ da `erTiani erovnuli sabWo~, `qarTuli ocneba~ da `nacionaluri moZraoba~. qarTvelebs gviWirs Sualedebis daWera da zogadad, zomieri azrovneba. es xels uSlis politikuri pluralizmis ganviTarebas.
– ra SeiZleba moxdes im SemTxvevaSi, Tu grigol vaSaZe prezidenti gaxdeba? dadgeba Tu ara qveyana samoqalaqo omis dawyebis safrTxis winaSe?
– araferi gansakuTrebuli ar moxdeba. saakaSvili momaval prezidentze gacilebiT didi uflebebiT 2012-2013 wlebSi asrulebda prezidentis movaleobas im pirobebSi, roca saparlamento umravlesobas (sakonstitucio umravlesobasac ara) flobda koalicia `qarTuli ocneba~ da Sesabamisad, mis mier iyo formirebuli aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebac. samoqalaqo omis dawyeba gamoricxulia, Tumca am faqts winaaRmdegoba mohyveba im adamianebis mxridan, romlebic wina, arademokratiuli xelisuflebis pirobebSi usamarTlod daiCagrnen, dakarges ojaxis wevrebi, qoneba, miiRes didi sulieri da fizikuri travmebi.