,, მჯერა, მიშა იქნება საქართველოში იმ დროს, როცა დასჭირდება ქართველ ერს, როცა მოითხოვს საზოგადოება”
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 94
ras apirebs `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ saprezidento arCevnebis meore turSi gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi da ra perspeqtivebi aqvs partias, amaze saubrobs aWaris umaRlesi sabWos wevri asmaT diasamiZe.
– qalbatono asmaT, jer mimovixiloT, ra Sedegs miaRwia Tqvenma gundma arCevnebis pirvel turSi aWaris masStabiT…
– didi upiratesobiT movigeT aWara, gansakuTrebiT – baTumi. maRalmTian regionebSi cotaTi gagviswro salome zurabiSvilma, magram xelvaCaursa da qobuleTSi vaSaZem gaimarjva.
– rogor fiqrobT, ram ganapiroba aseTi Sedegebi?
– arCevnebis pirvelma turma asaxa adamianebis WeSmariti ganwyoba, maTi damokidebuleba `qarTuli ocnebis~ mimarT. rodesac 6 wlis ganmavlobaSi adamianebs kvebav mxolod warsuliT da ver usaxav xvalindeli dRis imeds, ver aZlev keTildReobis perspeqtivas, sxva ra Sedegs unda elodo? aWaraSi imanac imoqmeda, rom zedized Seicvala mTavrobis Tavmjdomare. roca 4 wliT arCeul Tavmjdomares 2 weliwadsac ver axelisufleb, es mxolod `misi~ axirebiT SeiZleba avxsnaT. gaixseneT xeebis gadazidvis ybadaRebuli Tema. centraluri biujetidan finansdeboda mTeli es procesi. qobuleTSi, erTgan, ukve dagebuli asfalti gadaTxares, radgan iq xeebi ver gaitanes.
– xeebis gadatanis centraluri biujetidan dafinanseba arsad Tqmula, Tanac igi xom dendrologiuri parkisTvis gadahqondaT?
– roca ver asruleb verc erT dapirebas, saTaveSi mosasvlelad rom daafrqvie, romel xeebze melaparakebiT?! swored am Seusrulebeli dapirebebis gamo uTxres uari `nacionalur moZraobas~, magram Semdeg, praqtikulad, arc erTi Sesrulebula. gamodis, fuWad gailia is 6 weli, molodini ar gamarTlda. samuSao adgilebi mainc SeeqmnaT…
– samuSao adgilebi arc Tqveni mmarTvelobis dros iyo…
– diax, ubralod, ver movaswariT… ra xdeba axla? socialuri saxlebi, romlebic Cvens dros maRalmTian raionebSi aSenda, jer isev carielia. SegiZliaT naxoT qedaSi, xelvaCaurSi, xuloSi… stiqiiT dazaralebuli adamianebi ver Sedian maSin aSenebul da ukve amortizebul binebSi. ver gasces, ver dauriges maTi kuTvnili farTi.
– riTi axsniT amas?
– dabali kvalifikaciis mqone kadrebiT, uniaTobiTa da moundomeblobiT. igive suraTia umaRles sabWoSi gansaxilvelad Semotanil biujetTan dakavSirebiT. kargad iciT, swored mTavrobis formireba, misi kontroli da biujetis SemuSavebaa umaRlesi sabWos wevrTa ZiriTadi movaleoba. amas imitom vusvam xazs, rom mec mevaleba es. hoda, aseT gaWirvebul qveyanaSi rom Semogaqvs biujeti, romlis swori gaTvla ver xdeba da wlis bolos grCeba gamouyenebeli 100 milioni, absurdia es, aba, ra aris? ver unda daxarjo amxela Tanxa Cvens regionSi, sadac lamis yvela ojaxs uWirs? rogor ar davarqva amas uniaToba… amdeni xelgamowvdili adamiani quCaSi jer ar minaxavs. gzajvaredinebze fxizlad unda iyo mZRoli, rom ar daejaxo samaTxovrod gamosul Saosan qalebs. fsiqologiurad daTrgunulia sazogadoeba.
– yvelaferi es zogadi frazebia…
– gindaT, konkretulad vityvi – bevrs moexsna socialuri daxmareba. vTxoveT, gadaexedaT socialuri paketisTvis, magram amaod. rogor SeiZleba, adamiani cxovrobdes 40-50 wlis winaT garemontebul saxlSi da daxmareba mouxsna parketis gamo. SemorCa iq is parketi da ra qnas, amoiRos da gadayaros? isic vTqvaT, romelime socialurad daucveli ojaxis wevri erT Tves mainc Tu imuSavebs sadme, daxmarebas rom mouxsnian! studentebi xandaxan gadadian TurqeTSi, sadac mZime samuSaos asruleben, Txils an Cais krefen, oriod kapiki rom iSovon da amisTvis unda mouxsna daxmareba? es normaluria? cudad aqvT awyobili socialuri sistema.
– rac Seexeba pensiis 400 laramde gazrdas – grigol vaSaZe, gaprezidentebis SemTxvevaSi, SeZlebs amis gakeTebas?
– 400-larian pensiebs, rogorc prezidenti, ise gavcemo, ar uTqvams vaSaZes, ara! gaTvla aris saprezidento arCevnebis Semdeg vadamdel saparlamento arCevnebze, roca moxdeba xelisuflebis mSvidobianad gadabareba, parlamentSi gaerTianebuli opoziciis gasvla da qveynis koaliciurad marTva. gaerTianebuli opoziciis mesiji xom es aris – damTavrdes qveynis erTpartiuli mmarTveloba. erTi kaci ar unda wyvetdes saxelmwifoebriv sakiTxebs.
– daviwyeT saprezidento arCevnebze kandidatis dapirebis gaanalizebiT da gadavediT vadamdel saparlamento arCevnebze. ratom TvliT, rom es aucileblad moxdeba?
– imitom, rom mosaxleobisgan modis ukve dakveTa. parlamenti ar unda iyos kriminalebis da milionerebis TavSesafari, unda daubrundes misi WeSmariti funqcia. iq adamianebi unda muSaobdnen sakanonmdeblo iniciativebze. cxadia, parlamenti unda avirCioT proporciuli sistemiT da mxolod amis Semdeg gadawydeba realurad 400-lariani pensiebis sakiTxi.
– erTmmarTveloba swored saakaSvilis mmarTvelobis dros SeiniSneboda yvelaze mZafrad, Tumca axla laparaki amJamindel xelisuflebazea… da mainc, ar SemiZlia ar gavixseno gaxmaurebuli `Sewyalebis~ Tema. rogorc vici, grigol vaSaZe `nacionaluri moZraobis~ kandidatia, Tumca misi liderebis Sewyalebaze rom gaakeTa gancxadeba, orivem civi uari ganacxada, ra gvWirs Sesawyalebelio… aman yvela daabnia. nuTu koordinirebulad ar moqmedeben?
– iciT, marTlac gaugebrobas hqonda adgili, rac mohyva adamianur faqtors. vaSaZes Jurnalistma rodesac dausva kiTxva, prezidentad gasvlis SemTxvevaSi xom SeiwyalebT mixeil saakaSvils, daTa axalaias da vano merabiSvilso, grigolma, cxadia, upasuxa, Tu momarTva iqneba – Seviwyalebo, vano merabiSvilma ki ganacxada, rom mas brali ver daumtkices da araferi aqvs Sesawyalebeli. igive Tqva mixeil saakaSvilma, rom mas araferi dauSavebia qveynisTvis da araferi aqvs sapatiebeli, sruli moraluri Tu iuridiuli ufleba aqvs, daibrunos saqarTvelos moqalaqeoba. yvela mxarem gamoTqva sakuTari Sexedulebebi.
– dayofili `nacionaluri moZraoba~ da `evropuli saqarTvelo~ erTi gamxmari xis or tots Seadares. Tqven ra komentars gaakeTebT amaze, ramdenad dacalkevdnen erT dros erTiani gundis wevrebi?
– gaxsovT memorandumi, romelic gaaformes `nacionalurma moZraobam~ da `evropulma saqarTvelom~? iq SeTanxmdnen, rom erT-erTis gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi meore mxars dauWerda. asec moxda. aravin malavs, rom es gundi gamoeyo `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ da calkea axla, magram Cven erTSi mainc gvaqvs saerTo xedva – orivea proevropuli da Zalian awuxebs sakuTari qveynis bed-iRbali. es aris mTavari, rac gvakavSirebs. cxadia, aris sxvadasxva azri da idea, romelsac yvela ar eTanxmeba, magram roca saWiroa erTianoba, Cven erTad vdgavarT, risi dasturicaa arCevnebis pirveli turis Sedegebi.
– berZeniSvilebma ganacxades, rom xalxma gapatiaT 7 noemberi. ramdenad marTebulia es gancxadeba?
– wyena aravis daviwyebia. 7 noemberi Secdoma iyo, Secdomas ki sCadis is, vinc raRacas akeTebs. `qarTulma ocnebam~ xalxi gaaRataka, mSier kuWs ki daaviwyda Zveli problemebi, misTvis ufro mniSvnelovani gaxda ojaxze zrunva. lari gaufasurda. mosaxleobis 90% mibmuli varT bankebze. ratom gikvirT, rom apaties?! roca sasworze deb erT xelisufals, arafers rom akeTebs da 24 saaTi gayvedris warsuls, sasworis meore pinaze ki warsulSi darCenili xelisuflebaa, romelic akeTebda, ra Tqma unda, irCev saqmis gamkeTebels.
– migaCniaT, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ aRar dauSvebs imave Secdomebs?
– Tu dauSva Secdomebi da isev Zveli gziT wavida, xalxi mbrZanebelia, rogorc erTi gauSva, ise gauSvebs meores. gaizarda Cveni amomrCeveli, veRar moatyueb. es damtkicda arCevnebis pirvel turSi. Cveni sazogadoeba aRar tyuvdeba, win iyureba, sadac aRar iqneba `qarTuli ocneba~, romelmac mas momavlis rwmena ver misca.
– oponentebi arCevnebis gayalbebazec laparakoben. Tqvenc ase fiqrobT?
– ara, me ver getyviT faqtebs, magram imdenad gamwarebulebi arian, rom yvelaferze midian, marto is rad Rirs, `naftalinidan~ rom amoiyvanes da gverdiT daiyenes Zveli kadrebi. es xom saocrad aRizianebs sazogadoebas, anu mTeli resursi gamoiyenes am gaWirvebis Jams. amis miuxedavad, vTvli, `ocneba~ imaze cud Sedegs miiRebs, vidre pirvel turSi hqonda.
– ratom xarT ase darwmunebuli? bevri fiqrobs, rom `qarTuli ocnebis~ mxardamWerTa umetesoba, ubralod, ar mivida arCevnebze, daezaraT, axla ki mivlen…
– romel dazarebazea laparaki, ras hqvia, daezaraT?! mxars rom uWerdnen, ar daizarebdnen. imitom ar mividnen, rom ar unda daaSino xalxi. ubnis ufrosebs da Cvens mxardamWerebs, romlebsac ar `SeezaraT~ arCevnebze misvla, aSinebdnen samsaxuridan gagdebiT, magram veravin gatexes. asi procentiT var darwmunebuli, rom es xalxi isev miva arCevnebze da gaerTianebuli opoziciis saarCevno nomers – 5-ians, Semoxazavs.
– burjanaZis partiis warmomadgenlebi, kerZod ki giorgi cincqilaZe Tvlis, rom `ocnebas~ surs gadaabaros xelisufleba `nacionalebs~. amaze rame gagigiaT?
– xelisuflebis gadabarebis survilis ra mogaxsenoT, `podnosiT~ aravin arafers mogvarTmevs, magram kidev ufro aqtiurad rom vibrZolebT, gavaZlierebT mxardamWerebs da gare perimetrzec ki davayenebT Cvens meTvalyureebs, es faqtia.
– bevri gyavT mxardamWeri?
– adamianebi yovelgvari anazRaurebis gareSe Tanxmdebian muSaobas, oRond `eseni~ moiSoron. es gamoiwvia dolaris gaZvirebam, umuSevrobam, gaWirvebam, CinovnikTa uniaTobam da a.S.
– Tqveni mmarTvelobis drosac iyo igive problemebi…
– minda gaixsenoT, rodis movediT saxelmwifos saTaveSi, rogori qveyana dagvxvda da rogori CavabareT momdevno xelisuflebas. swored imitom mogvca xalxma xma, gaixsena, rom saqmis mkeTebeli swored Cven viyaviT.
– ratom airCieT grigol vaSaZe kandidatad, mas xom ara aqvs is qarizma, saakaSvils rom hqonda da ris gamoc, Tavis droze, amomrCevelma mas misca xma?
– grigol vaSaZes sufTa biografia aqvs. marTalia, miSas maRal sazoms ver pasuxobs grigolis monacemebi, magram 10 weli gavida da adamianebis xedvac Seicvala. vaSaZe Tavisi ojaxiT, ganaTlebiT, inteligenturobiT pasuxobs axal gamowvevebs, rasac ver vityvi salome zurabiSvilze.
– vaSaZe prezidenti Tu gaxda, mixeil saakaSvilis premier-ministrad Camoyvanazec izrunebT?
– amaze jer ar yofila saubari, magram sagareo Tu saSinao politikaze misi xedva qveyanas waadgeba. mjera, miSa iqneba saqarTveloSi im dros, roca dasWirdeba qarTvel ers, roca moiTxovs sazogadoeba.