,, საპრეზიდენტო არჩევნებისას ხელისუფლებამ დემოკრატიის მაღალი სტანდარტი აჩვენა”
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uflebadamcveli Tamaz bakuriZe, romelic xelisuflebisadmi loialuri damokidebulebiT ar gamoirCeva, Tvlis, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ xelisuflebaSi ar unda dabrundes. misive mosazrebiT, saqarTvelos mosaxleobis didma nawilma 28 noembers swori arCevani gaakeTa, roca qveynis prezidentad moqmedi xelisuflebis mxardaWerili kandidati salome zurabiSvili airCia. igi saqarTvelos istoriaSi pirdapiri wesiT arCeuli pirveli qali prezidentia.
salome zurabiSvilis prezidentad arCevas ori turi dasWirda. pirvel turSi qveynis prezidentobis survili uprecedentod bevrma kandidatma gamoTqva, Tumca, meore turSi erTmaneTs yofili da moqmedi xelisufleba daupirispirda – erTi – gaerTianebuli opoziciis, xolo meore – damoukidebeli kandidatis saxiT. arCevani gakeTebulia, Tumca saqarTvelos mosaxleoba jer kidev or nawiladaa gayofili. umciresoba, rbilad rom vTqvaT, arCeul prezidents ar aRiarebs, umravlesoba ki gamarjvebas zeimobs. samwuxarod, saarCevno maraTonis dros da dResac siZulvilis ena TvalSisacemia. albaT, kidev didxans iqneba aqtualuri 2018 wlis saprezidento arCevnebis Tema. momdevno prezidents, ukve 6 wlis Semdeg, axali konstituciis Tanaxmad, parlamenti airCevs.
mainc ratom ver moipova pirvel turSi `qarTuli ocnebis~ mxardaWerilma kandidatma mosaxleobis umravlesobis mxardaWera, ra Secdomebi dauSva xelisuflebaSi myofma mmarTvelma Zalam, rogori mTavarsardali iqneba salome zurabiSvili – am da sxva saintereso detalebze `aWarasTan~ uflebadamcvelma Tamaz bakuriZem isaubra, romelsac arCevnebis periodSi erTgvarad taim-auti hqonda aRebuli.
– batono Tamaz, modiT, saubari saprezidento arCevnebis pirveli turiT daviwyoT. rogor fiqrobT, ratom gaiyo xmebi salome zurabiSvilsa da grigol vaSaZes Soris TiTqmis Tanabrad?
– daviwyoT imiT, rom pirveli turis dros Zalian cudad imuSava xelisuflebam da Zalian kargad, organizebulad – opoziciam.
– muSaobaSi saarCevno kampanias gulisxmobT?
– diax, pirvel turamde procesebi Tavis nebaze iyo miSvebuli, qveyanaSi ar igrZnoboda, rom xelisufleba gamarjvebisTvis ibrZoda. TiTqos mmarTvelma gundma CaTvala, rom arCevnebs ubrZolvelad moigebda. damrCa STabeWdileba, rom maRal eSelonebSi is adamianebi, romlebic, erTgvarad, qveynis beds wyveten, realurad ar iyvnen informirebulebi, ra ganwyoba iyo mosaxleobaSi.
– vin wyvets qveynis beds, iqneb daakonkretoT, Tu Tqvenc biZina ivaniSvils gulisxmobT?
– ara mxolod biZina ivaniSvils. igi ar gaxlavT qveynis mmarTveli da SesaZlebelia, yvela informaciasac detalurad ar flobdes, magram rogorc mmarTveli partiis xelmZRvanels, bunebrivia, politikuri Zala saqmis kursSi unda ayenebdes. pirvel turSi mosaxleobis 54 procentma arCevnebSi monawileoba ar miiRo. ratom? imitom, rom mas mniSvnelovnad ar miaCnda arCevnebi. SesaZloa Tqvan, rom prezidents gansakuTrebuli funqciebi da uflebebi ar aqvs, magram, Tu opoziciis kandidati gaimarjvebda, CaTvaleT, prezidentis inauguraciis Semdeg, qveyanaSi sazogadoebriv-politikuri viTareba radikalurad Seicvleboda. policia, jari, prokuratura nel-nela aRar daeqvemdebareboda mmarTvel Zalas da daiwyebda `nacionaluri moZraobis~ mxares gadasvlas. amas arCevnebze armosuli im 54 procenti amomrCevlis gaRizianeba mohyveboda da, praqtikulad, samoqalaqo dapirispirebis zRvarze aRmovCndebodiT. am yvelafers opozicias ar vabraleb, radgan igi yovelTvis ecdeba nebismieri meTodiT – sicruiT, siyalbiT, avantiuriT Tu ZaladobiT, muqariT da daSinebiT, Tavis sawadels miaRwios da xelisuflebaSi dabrundes. miT ufro, roca opozicias hyavs lideri, romelic revoluciebSi kargad erkveva. amasTan, aqvT televizia, romelmac Tavis droze saqarTveloSi revoluciis mowyobaSi didi wvlili Seitana. `nacionaluri moZraobisTvis~ micemuli xmebis raodenoba, ara partiis, aramed swored televiziis damsaxurebaa, romelic 24-saaTian reJimSi protestis muxtis SenarCunebisTvis muSaobda. `rusTavi 2~-ma moaxerxa is, rom sxva mediasaSualebebi am arxis dRis wesrigiT mauwyeblobdnen. magaliTisTvis getyviT: roca saprotesto aqciebs vawyob, Tu gaaSuqebs `rusTavi 2~, aSuqebs sxva televiziebic. roca opoziciaze Zlieri televiziaa, xelisuflebam meti sifxizle unda gamoiCinos.
– arCevnebis meore turSi, sxva realoba miviReT. rogor moaxerxa mmarTvelma gundma mosaxleobis misken Semobruneba?
– xelisuflebam ki ar Semoabruna mosaxleoba, amomrCevelTa didma nawilma realurad dainaxa safrTxe – moZalade xelisufleba, romelic wlebis ganmavlobaSi adamianebs awamebda, cixeebSi aupatiurebda, klavda, mospo da gaanadgura Tavisufali media, 99 procenti gamamtyunebeli ganaCeni gamoitana, policiuri reJimi Seqmna da es Zala ukve ultimatumebs ayenebda, es xelisuflebis bralia. swored mosaxleobis aqtiurobam ganapiroba meore turSi gamarjveba. visac ar ezareba, salome zurabiSvilis gamarjvebas xaxvs da kartofils ukavSirebs, risic ar mjera.
– ara mxolod xaxvs da kartofils, aramed sabanko davalianebis dafarvasac…
– xalxs, kidev erTxel vityvi, moZalade xelisuflebis ukan mobrunebis SeeSinda, Torem Tundac sabanko davalianebis dafarva imdenad uaryofiT konteqstSi gaaSuqa opoziciis televiziam, mosaxleobaSi ukureaqcia gamoiwvia. arCevnebis dros ramdenime saarCevno ubanze mivedi, arsad igrZnoboda Zaladoba. iyo umniSvnelo eqscesebi, magram, modiT, paralelebi gavavloT saakaSvilis mmarTvelobis periodTan, roca 5 larad yidulobdnen xmebs, samsaxuridan gaSvebiT emuqrebodnen adamianebs da sxva. dRes gabedulad vera, Tumca mainc amboben xolme, mmarTvelma gundma saxelisuflebo resursi gamoiyenao. paradoqsia, Tumca faqtia, rom saxelisuflebo resursi ufro `nacionalurma moZraobam~ gamoiyena, radgan swored saxelisuflebo resursidan 40 procentze metma mxari opoziciis kandidats dauWira. saprezidento arCevnebisas xelisuflebam demokratiis maRali standarti aCvena – ar uZaladia, aravin gauupatiurebia, ar dauWeria an ar gamouSvia cixidan xmebis sanacvlod. realurad xalxi yofili moZalade xelisuflebis winaaRmdegi wavida. saxarbielo mdgomareoba arc arCevnebis Semdeg gvaqvs – `nacionaluri moZraoba~ ar moisvenebs.
– albaT, gasul kviras gamarTul opoziciis aqciaze akeTebT aqcents.
– diax, da vfiqrob, opozicias informacia hqonda, didi raodenobiT xalxi rom ar mividoda aqciaze, amitom wina dRes ganacxades, – mTlian mobilizebas ar vakeTebTo. `nacionalur moZraobaSi~ gadasulma murman dumbaZem Tqva, minimitingi gamarTeso, Tumca, mixeil saakaSvili teleeTeriT ambobda, kviras mTeli eri dadgeba iq da gaCvenebT xalxis Zalaso. parlamentis Senobis wina teritoriac ki ver gadatvirTes, da es maSin, roca `rusTavi 2~ gamudmebiT axsenebda sazogadoebas, rom aqciaze unda misuliyvnen, radgan es iyo gadamwyveti dRe. 50 aTasi adamiani rom gasuliyo rusTavelze, merwmuneT, sul sxva, winaswar dawerili scenariT ganviTardeboda movlenebi. tyuilad ar dauWeriaT ukrainis moqalaqeebi… roca realurad dainaxa saakaSvilma, rom xalxi ar mivida maT mxardasaWerad, Zalian mokle satelevizio komentari gaakeTa da pirdapiri eTeridan gavida.
– momavalSi ra nabijebs unda velodoT gaerTianebuli opoziciisgan?
– me maT gaerTianebul opozicias ver davarqmev, es aris `nacionaluri moZraoba~, aba, politikur aminds `respublikelebi~ ver Seqmnian, partiaSi sul 5 wevri hyavT, paata daviTaiaze saubari sircxvilia da aseTi – erTkaciani partiebis gaerTianeba ver Sefasdeba mZlavr Zalad. ubralod, gaerTianebuli opozicia dasavleTisTvis saCveneblad sWirdebaT. Cemi azriT, `nacionaluri moZraoba~ opoziciaSi mcire ZaliT unda arsebobdes, raTa xelisuflebam, ara mxolod dRevandelma, momavalmac, naklebi Secdoma dauSvas. Zalian kargad aqvT opoziciis roli morgebuli. xelisuflebaSi maTi mosvla rom ar SeiZleba, es mmarTvelobis 9 welma daadastura. iyvnen opoziciaSi Salva naTelaSvilis msgavsad, romelic jer kidev SevardnaZis periodSi iseT wertilovan dartymebs akeTebda, rogoric saWiro iyo.
– ratom ar dadga `evropuli saqarTvelo~ gaerTianebuli opoziciis gverdiT saprotesto aqciaze?
– daviT baqraZis garda, `evropuli saqarTvelos~ liderebi kriminalebi arian. erT faqts getyviT: roca gigi ugulava dedaqalaqis meri iyo da TbilisSi rkinigzis gadatanas gegmavda, swored im proeqtidan mas 220 milioni dolari aqvs miTvisebuli. erT-erT seminarze es Tema arasamTavrobo organizacia `mwvane alternativam~ wamoswia da ganacxada, rom xelisuflebisgan pasuxi aseTi iyo – viciT, Tumca SeerTebulma Statebma gviTxra, ugulavas xeli ar axloTo. givi TargamaZes da giga bokerias soliduri Tanxebi mihqondaT aWaris bizneselitisgan. ufro xSirad TargamaZe stumrobda regions da diplomatis CanTiT gahqonda fuli.
– iqneb biznesmenis vinaoba gagvimxiloT?
– dResac warmatebuli biznesi aqvs, viszec vsaubrob, Tumca xmamaRla ar vityvi mis vinaobas. amitom, partiis saxelis SecvliT arc bokeria Seicvleba, arc ugulava, arc TargamaZe da sxvebi. prokuraturisTvisac yvelaferi cnobilia, biznesmenebi samarTaldamcav organoebs ar mimarTaven, radgan yvela StoSi saakaSvilis droindeli kadrebi arian. `ocnebis~ xelisufleba xSirad ambobs, rom maT faqtebi da mtkicebulebebi ar aqvT. arc eqnebaT iqamde, vidre im Zvel kadrebs ar CamoaSoreben prokuraturas da sxva uwyebebs. Tundac, levan varSalomiZe, dRes rom gamodis da frTian angelozad gvaCvenebs Tavs, kargad viciT, ramden biznesmens waarTva qoneba da wili. emuqreboda maT da aSinebda. faqtobrivad, igi kriminalia, Tumca aravin sTxovs pasuxs, da ratom? yvelam viciT, rom mas TurqeTis prezidenti erdoRani mfarvelobs… Tu adamiani kriminalia, pasuxi unda agos kanonis winaSe. `qarTulma ocnebam~ xelisuflebaSi mosvlisTanave rom ar daiwyo danapirebi samarTlianobis aRdgena, imitom miiRo is, rac miiRo saprezidento arCevnebis dros.
– modiT, valis dafarvis Temas davubrundeT, ramac keTilsindisieri gadamxdelebis ganawyeneba gamoiwvia.
– Tu Cven vifiqrebT, ratom daexmara sxvas da ara me – keTilsindisier gadamxdels, araferi gamogviva. piriqiT, erT muStad unda SevikraT da msgavsi problemebis gadaWris gzebi movZebnoT. axali xelisuflebis mosvlis dRidan sam rames viTxovdiT – policia gamosaxlebebis procesebisTvis CamoeSorebinaT, sabanko `Savi siidan~ amoeRoT adamianebi da gaecaT dabalprocentiani, grZelvadiani sesxebi. pirveli ori moTxovna TiTqmis dakmayofilebulia da, imedia, xalxs dabalprocentian sesxebsac miscemen.
– batono Tamaz, saprezidento arCevnebis Temas cotaTi gadavuxvev – `ocnebis qalaqi~ xelisuflebis mougvarebel problemad isev rCeba, Tumca, saTqmelia, rom mTavrobis Tavmjdomare Tornike riJvaZe pirveli iyo xelisuflebis mxridan, vinc TviTneburad dasaxlebulebTan mivida da adgilze gaecno maT problemebs. saTqmelia isic, rom is `ocnebis qalaqSi~ erTi vizitiT ar Semoifargla – axlaxan, uxvi naleqis dros, kvlav gamoCnda yofili 25-e da 53-e batalionebis teritoriaze.
– diax, batoni Tornike Tavad gaecno iq arsebul viTarebas. mosaxleobam sTxova, `ocnebis qalaqis~ bedis sabolood gadawyvetamde, Sida gzebi moexreSaT, gare ganaTeba moewyoT da daedgaT nagvis urnebi, Tumca am etapze arc erTi problema ar mogvarebula. Tu amisTvis Tanxebs biujetSi ar Cadeben, dapireba dapirebad darCeba…
– salome zurabiSvili pirveli qali prezidentia. ra molodini gaqvT, Tqveni azriT, rogori prezidenti iqneba?
– piradad ar vicnob qalbaton salomes, Tumca vfiqrob, `qarTul ocnebas~ SeeZlo ukeTesi kandidatisTvis daeWira mxari. albaT, salome zurabiSvilis kandidatura ufro sagareo faqtorze iyo gaTvlili. amas mowmobs evropul mediaSi gavrcelebuli mesijebi, rom evropeli diplomati gaxda saqarTvelos prezidenti, rac dadebiTad moqmedebs Cveni qveynis imijze. salome zurabiSvils dadebiT konteqstSi moixsenieben da aravin ambobs, qveynis prezidentad jaSuSi da moRalate airCieso. sagareo kuTxiT Zalian kargia, radgan prezidentma swored sagareo arenaze unda warmoaCinos qveyana. vaSaZe rom agverCia, dasavluri media ityoda – sabWoTa diplomati, rusuli kulturis mimdevari da ase Semdeg, rac didi sircxvili iqneboda Cveni qveynisTvis.
– dabolos, biZina ivaniSvilma saprezidento arCevnebis pirveli turis Semdeg erTgvarad pirobac ki dado, rom yvelafers ukeTesobisken Secvlis. iyo Tu ara saprezidento arCevnebi 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebis win Catarebuli generaluri repeticia?
– rodesac manqaniT mivdivarT da SuqniSani gvxvdeba, Sesabamisi ferebis mixedviT an vCerdebiT, an vemzadebiT an gzas vagrZelebT. biZina ivaniSvils da `qarTul ocnebas~ qarTvelma xalxma 2012 wels mwvane Suqi aunTo, saprezidento arCevnebze ki yviTeli. Tu 2020 wlamde is dapirebebi ar Seasrula, merwmuneT, 2020 wels wiTel Suqs aunTeben. amitom, ukve unda daiwyon samarTlianobis aRdgena, sistemuri cvlilebebi da realurad axali kadrebis moyvana. amisi resursi gvaqvs.
