დავით ჩხარტიშვილი: ხელისუფლება საუკეთესოებს უნდა ეკუთვნოდეს
ნინო ცხვარაძე 591 98 24 30
qveyanaSi politikuri viTareba daZabulia. `qarTul ocnebaSi~ arsebuli dapirispireba umravlesobam samzeoze gamoitana, am yvelafers ki win saprezidento arCevnebi uZRoda, romelic dRemde da kidev karga xans
iqneba sazogadoebaSi gansjis Tema
publicisti daviT CxartiSvili saprezidento arCevnebsa da qarTul politikaze sakuTar mosazrebas gviziarebs.
– batono daviT, saubari saprezidento arCevnebiT daviwyoT…
– arCevnebze ar vyofilvar. mizezi? salome zurabiSvili Tavis droze saakaSvilma dapatiJa da xelisuflebidan wavida is ara imitom, rom ideologiuri SeuTavsebloba hqonda masTan, aramed Tavnebobis gamo, albaT, amitomac iyo Zalian dabali misi reitingi. faqtia – rom ara biZina ivaniSvili misi SeuzRudavi materialuri resursiT, zurabiSvils xmas aravin miscemda. SemiZlia bevrad Rirseuli kandidatebi SemogTavazoT, romlebic dRes CrdilSi arian bedis ironiis gamo da bevrad meti siqveliTa da kompetenciiT gamoirCevian.
– Tqveni Sefasebebi gadaWarbebuli da zedmetad mkacri xom ar aris?
– ilias moviSvelieb, radgan jer ar dabadebula masze didi da marTali kaci, verc ukeT ityvis vinme qarTvelT tkivils: `qarTvelis usiyvarulobaSi nu CamogvarTmeven, roca mkafiod saqveynod gamosTqvams mas, rac qarTvelSi cudia da sazizRari. saqarTveloSi Tu sadme orsa da sams uyvars qarTveli, Cven imaTSi ukanaskneli ara varT. moyvares ki pirSi unda uZraxo~. madloba gazeT `aWaras~, rom gamoirCeva aseTi midgomiT da 100-wlovan tradicias ar Ralatobs, rac ucxoa qarTuli meinstrimuli mediisTvis, romelic didwilad tingicsa da maameblobazea awyobili, gaaCnia, vinaa patroni da saiT ixreba is. namdvili Jurnalistika xom moyvasis pirSi Zraxvaa da Sansi adekvaturi sazogadoebisTvis, droulad gaukeTos koreqcia sakuTar Tavs, Cven ki ras vxedavT – am sadRegrZeloebis subkulturam da aRmatebulma saubrebma trivialurze, lamis yoveldRiurma `nadimebma Savi Wiris dros~, anda Sav-TeTrma partiulma propagandam daRupa da ufskrulisken miaqanebs kidec Cvens qveyanas da e.w. Jurnalistebis umetesoba am yvelafris Tanamonawilea, zogi – nebsiT, zogi ki uneblieT. dRes qarTvelSi ori dapirispirebuli samyaroa. magaliTad, im menSevikebis mTavrobam, dRes rom erovnulad asaRebs Tavs, Tavis droze mokla iliac da misnairebi da dResac klaven, roca ilias da noe Jordanias portretebs erTad hkideben parlamentSi. amas qarTuli mediac akeTebs da is iSviaTi gamonaklisebi, rac gvxvdeba am velze, samwuxarod, ver faraven unisonSi momRerali dabali pasuxismgeblobis da xSirad uwignuri, datreningebuli pirebis midgomebs saxelmwifos, istoriuli mter-megobris Tu qveynis prioritetebis mimarTulebiT. `pirmSoobis uflebas ospis SeWamandSi vcvliT~ daufiqreblad, Cveni momdevno Taobebis gansawirad viRvwiT, vakeTebT yvelafers, rom gaunaTlebel, aRviraxsnil, ganarkomanebul brbod Camoyalibdnen, rac `evropelobis~ sinonimad da, Sesabamisad, modurad gavxadeT. arc samSoblos daicaven, arc rame Rirebuls aaSeneben – garda kazinoebisa da bordelebisa am Cvens bedkrul miwaze. sadaveebi jer kidev xelT upyria xalxs, romlebsac WeSmaritebis ukanaskneli instancia hgoniaT 10 wlis winaT `iusaidis~ logoebiT gamoSvebuli broSurebi da evropa – sorosis ideebis prizmaSi gardatexili `babilonis~ msgavsi warmonaqmni, `aRTqmul miwad~ miaCniaT ara ierusalimi, magaliTad, aramed sodomi da gomori, gvjera orientirebis, romelic mTeli msoflios masStabiT lpeba, magram saqarTveloSi inerciiT kidev inarCuneben aseT midgomebs da evropuli faseulobebi ara ojaxi, tradicia, qristianoba, Zmoba da erToba, Semwynarebloba da socialuri solidaroba, aramed lgbt, kazino, bordelebi, ojaxuri faseulobebis devalvacia da RmerTis gmoba hgoniaT. es imis bralicaa, rom `qarTulma ocnebam~ 6 wlis ganmavlobaSi ver SemogvTavaza axali doqtrinis monaxazic ki, an vis unda SeeTavazebina – saimijo figurebic ki ar hyavT, vis mimarTac kiTxvebi ar gaCndeboda da romc hyavdeT, erTi biZina amdens veranairad gaswvdeboda im pirobebSi, roca arc televizia, arc ideis irgvliv Sekrebili motivirebuli, ganaTlebuli da patrioti xalxi hyavs. `qarTuli ocneba~, principSi, mxolod situaciuri gaerTianebaa, meore polusze ki gaixseneT ra kontingentia da ra simZlavreebi dgas maT ukan – dawyebuli okeanisgaRmeli institutebiT, enjeoebiTa Tu yvelaze profesionali televiziiT. davdumdeT da ar vilaparakoT amaze? ara, sanam ver viswavliT simarTlis Tqmas, mudam viqnebiT am WaobSi – gavCerdebiT da met borotebas CavidenT. realoba iseTia, rom `gadatvirTvac~ ar Svelis, gamosavali mxolod `gadaformatirebaa~. xelisufleba unda ekuTvnodes saukeTesoebs da ara gaiZverebs da mdidrebs, dabali socialuri pasuxismgeblobis pirebs da yvelaferze wamsvlelebs, rogorc es CvenTanaa. faqtobrivad, Cveni nebis sawinaaRmdegod gvmarTaven arakeTilmosurneni 90-ianebidan moyolebuli, dRes eris elitad gvevlinebian da yvela jansaR wamowyebas CanasaxSive klaven – imdenad ucxoa es maTi msoflmxedvelobisTvis da ganvlili gzisTvis. saxelmwifoebs ki sxva fsiqotipis xalxi aSenebs, rogorc wesi, da gana gadametebulad muq ferSi vxedav rames? gadaxedeT msoflio istorias, naxavT ki sadme aseTi xalxis mier awyobil mdidar, jansaRi suliskveTebisa da demokratiul qveyanas?!
– gasagebia, batono daviT, Tundac biZina ivaniSvilis faqtoriT saqarTvelos mosaxleobis didma nawilma salome zurabiSvils dauWira mxari da ara gaerTianebuli opoziciis kandidats…
– opoziciuri Zalebi Zalian binZur teqnologiebs iyenebdnen, rac CemTvis principulad miuRebelia, mmarTveli partia ki administraciul resurss, mokriminalo marginalur elementebs da miTs iseT absolutur borotebaze, rogoric saakaSvilis sisxliani reJimis dabrunebaa. Rimilismomgvrelia, roca refleqsebi inteleqts upirispirdeba – iseT idiotizmamdec ki mividnen, rogoric saakaSvilisTvis `kremlis agentobis~ dabraleba da, Sesabamisad, zurabiSvilis sruliad uadgilo pozicionireba evroatlantikur kandidatad. es arCevnebi SeiZleba `pirosis gamarjvebad~ moinaTlos ivaniSvilisTvis, radgan moumzadebeli Sexvda. ar SeiZleba ZaRls Tagvebis Wera daavalo, katas ki yefa, rac, sxvaTa Soris, 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi mware marcxis sawindaria kidec, Tu bevrad adre ar moxda es, vadamdeli arCevnebis SemTxvevaSi. rac yvelaze sagangaSoa, winasaarCevno periodi warimarTa rusofobiis niSnis qveS. am arCevnebma naTlad aCvena uzarmazari urTierTwinaaRmdegobebi Tavad `ocnebis~ msoflmxedvelobaSi da korufciuli garigebebis kaskadi gamoaaSkarava ise naTlad, rom Tu adre kuluaruli informaciiT da gonivruli eWvebis doneze aqa-iq ismoda calkeuli SeZaxilebi, dRes bavSvic ki xedavs, Tu ra `avgias Tavlis~ situaciaa. Tqven miTxariT, rom Tundac ivaniSvilis faqtoriT salome zurabiSvilma gaimarjvao. ki, batono, magram es iyo Setakeba dinozavrebsa da Tbilsisxlianebs Soris. wonis wyalobiT am konkretul SetakebaSi daamarcxes kidec `nacebi~, magram isini adaptacias ganicdian da arcTu ise Sorsaa is momenti, rodesac isev gamoZvrebian soroebidan da Seuteven `ocnebas~. eka beselias skandali aisbergis mwvervalia da ra momentSi, ra formiT daiwyeba `titanikis~ CaZirva, Tu ver aiyvanes Tavi xelSi, amis prognozirebac araa rTuli.
– ra gaZlevT amis Tqmis safuZvels?
– Cavardnebi Sida da sagareo politikaSi, romelic saakaSvilisadmi siZulvilis gamo ar Canda sawyis etapze, axla mkveTrad gamoCnda, masobrivad gamodis xalxi `ocnebis~ xiblidan, kritikulad ixsenebs 2012 wels gacemul dapirebebs, TvalSisacemi katastrofuli sakadro politika xom saerTod wiTel xazad sdevs mTel maT moRvaweobas, ris gamoc Tavad ivaniSvilsac ki bodiSis moxda mouwia eris winaSe. arada, wlebia, klanebi fiqroben, rom ar moekiTxebaT is nepotizmi, rac daamkvidres. dajgufebebi, e.w. saZmoebi adgilebs inawileben, deputatobas da umaRles Tanamdebobebs `CaliCiT~ iReben daumsaxureblad, erTmaneTs `ocnebis~ mandatiT Ziravdnen – `ara me, ara me var naRdi, Zveli, biZinasTan ufro daaxloebuli~, arada, sul 10 kaci maxsovs aqtiuri da moqalaqeobrivi poziciis mqone im periodidan. saZmoebi, romlis birTvs, ZiriTadad, 2012 wlamde `birJavikebi~ da murman dumbaZisa Tu levan varSalomiZis xelisbiWebi warmoadgenen, ver xvdebian, rom sul male yvelas erTad alagmaven… sruli bednierebisTvis, saprezidento arCevnebiT `ocnebam~ kidec aaRorZina `nacionalebi~. oficialurad dadasturda, rom maT bevrad meti momxre hyavT, vidre yvelas egona 2012 wlis Semdeg. mmarTvelma Zalam ver Seqmna qmediTunariani xelisufleba da verc alternatiuli ideologia daupirispira `miSizms~. amiT sargebloben saakaSvilis momxreebi da lamis kata-Tagvobanas eTamaSebian `ocnebas~ mTeli es wlebi, dRis wesrigsac ki `nacebi~ uqmnian, yvela maT nabijs Wvreten, disputebis manerasac ki karnaxoben, radgan sjobnian inteleqtualuri TvalsazrisiT, TumcaRa sakiTxebisadmi mikerZoebuli damokidebulebiT gamoirCevian. amitomaa mniSvnelovani, sakuTari da ara maTi realobidan gamomdinare epaeqro xolme. amas didi filosofia ar sWirdeba, sakmarisia Savze Savi da TeTrze TeTri Tqva kompetenturad. `Zala simarTleSia~, magram vinaa amis mTqmeli regionSi?..
– rogor SeiZleba es xdebodes imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom `nacebma~ Tavis droze uamravi Secdoma dauSves, waages omi, dautoves qveyanas gaZvaltyavebuli ekonomika da imdeni qnes, rom ruseTs aRiarebines ori separatistuli regioni?
– saakaSvilis momxreebis Teoria martivia da mwyobri imdenad, rom sakmarisia `ocnebisTvis~ tvinis asarevad, TumcaRa, rogorc zemoT aRvniSne, araswor daskvnebs efuZneba maTi argumentacia, `ocnebas~ ki ar gaaCnia aseTi Teoria da arc uCans piri, rom vinme fiqrobdes am umniSvnelovanes sakiTxze. gadaxedeT aWaris `ocnebas~ – sruli katastrofaa, danarCen regionebSic msgavsi situaciaa. ar SeiZleba `plakatebis gamkvrelis~ donis pirebi partiul liderebad gvevlinebodnen. ki, batono, ramdenime iqneb Zalian sasiamovno piri iyos, magram minimaluri ganaTlebiT, oriode keTilic gaerios, magram ara mTlad sufTa warsuliT, aTeulobiT SevardnaZis da abaSiZisdroindeli reliqti, 2012 wlis mere portirebuli, sazogadoebis farTo fenebisTvis ucnobi e.w. `TeTri sayeloebi~ sabanko seqtoridan da es – umaRles Tanamdebobebze, ufro qveviT doneebze mTlad katastrofaa. kidev erTi mizezi aseTi mdgomareobisa isaa, rom rasac Cvens qveyanaSi da kuTxeSi politikas uwodeben, sinamdvileSi araa politika. gana romelimes, mand vinc Cans dRes, rom ara biZina ivaniSvilis avtoriteti, miscemda xmas vinme ojaxis wevrebis garda? mimoixedeT garSemo, risi sjera am kontingents, romelic didwilad Zveli alasanias partiidan, 2012 wlis mere gadmobargebulebisgan da, saerTod, iseTi xalxisgan Sedgeba, vinc televizors ar rTavda daniSvnamde, gazeTze da ufro seriozul Tematur literaturaze xom saerTod zedmetia saubari, an rame samoqalaqo aqtivobaze. cvlilebebi mTel msoflioSia, CvenTan ki is winandeli sorosis samflobelo hgoniaT da datreningebuli biWebi da gogoebi isev Wkuas gvaswavlian, rogorc erT dros – komkavSireli aqtivistebi. erTi sityviT, katastrofis zRvarze varT imis gamo, rom aravin ifiqra amaze Tavis droze, radgan im kontingentisTvis, vinc Caigdo sadaveebi aWaraSi, es Cinuri anbania, metic – imdenad dakompleqsebulebi arian ganvlili gzebis gamo, keklucoben am gogo-biWebis winaSe imis SiSiT, rame ar wamoaZaxon warsulidan, qceviT aCveneben, rom maTianni arian arsiT da `ocneba~ droebiTi navsayudelia. arCevnebma es kidev ufro gamoaaSkarava.
– gamodis, esaa ZiriTadi mizezebi meore turis da `nacionaluri~ eleqtoratis momravlebis?
– logikuri Sedegia. `ocneba~ yovelwliurad kargavda im moralur upiratesobas, rac 6 wlis win hqonda. maSin `nacebisgan~ miyenebul tkivils kidev Zala hqonda – apelireba wamebaze, dakveTil mkvlelobebze, demonstraciebis sastik darbevebze ukve ver axdens mobilizacias ivaniSvilis figuris garSemo. Zalian arasimpaTiuri, xarbi da ruxi personaJebi Semoikribnen mis irgvliv. da iseTi STabeWdileba rCeba, rom Tavad `ocneba~ savsea saakaSvilis momxreebiT, rac arc ise Sorsaa WeSmaritebisgan. `miSizmi~ suliskveTebaa, yofiTi rusofobia, ura-patriotizmi, swored `miSizmiT~ daavadebulebis umravlesobaa mediaSi da Zalovan struqturebSi, sadac mxolod zedapiri Secvales.
– rogor unda gamoavlinon aseTi adamianebi?
– Zalian martivia, maSinve `gaSifrav~ maTi poziciebiT iseT sakiTxebze, rogoricaa, magaliTad, siriis, ukrainis, sorosis, e.w. `rusuli mirisadmi~, stambolis patriarqisa da trampisadmi damokidebulebiT. isini maSinve jgufdebian am sakiTxebis irgvliv, TumcaRa teqnikur sakiTxebSi SeiZleba ukanaskneli sityvebiT aginon erTmaneTs. eWvi ar SegeparoT, roca dro dadgeba, es xalxi isev aRmoCndeba erTad – pirobiTad miSasTan, rac nawilobriv moxda kidec am arCevnebze, dadgebian saakaSvilis mxares, dids mianiWeben upiratesobas da teqnikurze Tvals daxuWaven. SeuZlebelia sarkazmis gareSe uyuro am uTanabro brZolas inteleqtsa da refleqsebs Soris. da iciT, ratom? saakaSvilma, ivaniSvilisgan gansxvavebiT, moaxerxa da Seqmna idea. cudia is Tu kargi – ideaa. ras vxedavT `ocnebis~ mxridan? 6 wlis ganmavlobaSi misi momxreebi imeoreben igive mantrebs, rasac cxra weli saakaSvili gvidebda TavSi, amitomacaa rom orive kandidati erTmaneTs rusofobiaSi ejibreboda.
– dabolos, ratom prognozireben darwmunebiT 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi `ocnebis~ damarcxebas?
– martivia, Tu saerTod mivida 2020 wlamde. gayaviT myife 1 100 000 xma 5-6 partiaze, 800 000 myari amomrCeveli ki iqiT, amas daumateT momaval 2 wlis ganmavlobaSi daSvebuli Secdomebi da mesame Zalis gamoCena… seriozuli brZola elis `ocnebas~, Tu igive `SemarTebiT~ gaagrZela `saqmianoba~ da gamosworebas ki jerac ar uCans piri. erTi biZina ivaniSvilis avtoritetma ramdeni uavtoriteto, mis saxels mitmasnili ruxi arseba unda aitanos da sanamde? maimedebs mxolod is, rom raRac araswori unda moxdes, swori rom daibados, magaliTad, qviSis marcvali unda aRmoCndes niJaraSi, rom margalitad iqces. amis imedi maqvs!
