დიდი მხატვრის ტკივილიანი წინათგრძნობა და უკანასკნელი სადარდებელი
ირამ ცეცხლაძე 27 48 94
ramdenime Tve vTxovdi zurab xabaZes intervius. ar mTanxmdeboda, Zalian ganawyenebuli var mTel qveyanaze da ar minda qarTvelebze cudi ram vTqva, Cemgan maT es ar egebiso. bolos Tavad movida redaqciaSi da SemiTanxmda Sexvedraze: `moulodnelad gadavwyvite, ar vici – ratom, magram mominda bolo sityva vuTxra Cems ers~. maSin, cxadia, ar mimiqcevia saTanado yuradReba am sityvebisTvis, isic vuTxari, jer yvelaferi win gaqvT, ra dros bolo sityvaa-meTqi… Turme winaTgrZnobam moiyvana didi mxatvari CvenTan, albaT, grZnobda swraf aRsasruls da aRsarebasaviT gadmomca sakuTari fiqrebi, wuxili, gulistkena Tu ocnebebi…
Sevecdebi, am interviuSi gadmogceT zurab xabaZiseuli filosofia, romelic mudam sdevda mis cxovrebas. mxatvars arasodes uRalatia sakuTari SexedulebebisaTvis. bolo amosunTqvamde xatavda da saqarTveloze, Cvens warsulsa da momavalze fiqrobda.
cnobisaTvis: aWaris damsaxurebul mxatvars, memed abaSiZis premiis laureats, Rirsebis ordenis kavalers zurab xabaZes Seqmnili aqvs 200-mde ferweruli tilo da grafikuli namuSevari. misi cnobili tiloebia: `aRaza qistebTan~, `fridoni~, `nestan-darejani~, `tarieli~, `vaJa-fSavelas portreti~, `baxtrioni~. mxatvars gaformebuli aqvs mravali wigni. man Seqmna ilia WavWavaZis saxelobis saxelmwifo dramatuli Teatris farda `medea~.
interviuze samxatvro galereaSi damibara. uzarmazari tiloebis garemocvaSi myofs, bavSviviT ucimcimebda Tvalebi. saubrisas ratomRac moibuza, TiTqos uWirda sakuTari azrebis gaSiSvleba. cdilobda, gulwrfelad eTqva yvelaferi, rac gulSi edo, magram imasac vatyobdi, ar aZlevda wyenas gasaqans. erTaderTi, rac xmamaRla Tqva da rac Zalian awuxebda, iyo is, rom Teatris fardis adgilsamyofels eZebda, romelzec sami weli imuSava. Zalian stkioda guli misi Sedevris mimarT CinovnikTa ugulisyuro damokidebulebis gamo: `ar vici, sad daikarga farda. yvelaze samwuxaroa, rom aravin icis, sad aris. sami weli Sevalie am fardis moxatvas. misi eskizebi nanaxi da mowonebuli hqondaT iseT did mxatvrebs, rogorebic iyvnen lado gudiaSvili, levan cucqiriZe, merab berZeniSvili…~
– batono zurab, gviambeT am fardis istoria, iqneb ufro dainteresdnen da moiZebnos kidec?
– simarTle giTxraT, fardis SekveTa rom miviRe, didxans vfiqrobdi, ra saxiT gamekeTebina. bevrs SevekiTxe, magram veravin momca rCeva. bolos gadavwyvite medeas miTis gacocxleba. iq graalis Tasicaa gamosaxuli. Cven xom uZvelesi civilizaciis eri varT. es ar unda daviviwyoT, magram farda gaqra SarSandeli TovliviT. rom vekiTxebi saTanado uwyebis warmomadgenlebs, mxrebs iCeCaven – ar viciTo… samarcxvinoa. albaT, farda gafuWda kidec aqeT-iqiT wowialSi. vin gaukeTebs restavracias? nuTu aRarc dakideben?!
– modiT, Tqveni Semoqmedebis sawyisi etapi gavixsenoT.
– albaT, bavSvobidan CavrCi saRebavebSi, aRarc maxsovs am gadasaxedidan. erTi vici – vxatav, rac Tavi maxsovs. baTumSi samxatvro skola davamTavre, TbilisSi – akademia. mas Semdeg vxatav da var ase…
– romelma tilom mogitanaT yvelaze didi aRiareba?
– arc erTma. Cemi aRiareba daiwyo wignebiT. `SuSanikis wamebis~ saiubileo gamocema gavaforme. maSin konkursSi bevrma cnobilma mxatvarma miiRo monawileoba, magram ratomRac me amarCies. Semdeg mohyva `ambavi siauSisa~ – firdousis `Sahnamedan~ erT-erTi fragmentia. misi 5 ilustracia gavakeTe da moiwones. es naxatebi moskovma SeiZina. originalebi axlac iqaa… ar minda Zveli ambebis gaxseneba, modiT, Tanamedroveobaze vilaparakoT, imaze, rac gvWirs da rac gviWirs. arasodes mimaCnda Tavi did mxatvrad. ar miyvars afiSireba. adre mixaroda, axla, asaks rom mivaRwie – aRar. dRes ar micnoben, ver mcnoben ise, rogorc mekuTvnis. eg arc Cemi bralia da arc sxvebis. Zalian cud epoqaSi vcxovrobT. Tu gaxsovT filmi `SeSlili, SeSlili, SeSlili msoflio~ – axla movida es dro, rogorc Seqspiri ambobs: `radgan uRirsebs usamarTlod daadges dafna~…
– ucxoeTSi Tu gaiyida Tqveni tiloebi?
– Zalian cota. Cveni Zalian kargi mxatvrebis namuSevrebic ar gaiyida, ganvlili etapiao, ganacxades. ismis kiTxva – ras niSnavs es. maSin aRorZinebis xanis warmomadgenlebi leonardo da vinCi, miqelanjelo da rafaelic ganvlili etapia? ratom aRiares Tavisive epoqaSi, Tavis droze? adamianis garegnoba ucvlelia. individualizmi gansxvavebulia, magram fizikuri monacemebi xom ar icvleba. ra vqnaT, samfexa cxeni vxatoT Tu kentavrebi – es xom saSinelebaa. CemTvis miuRebelia cxenis tanis adamianis sxeulTan gaerTianeba imis miuxedavad, rom botiCelma Seqmna am Temaze ubrwyinvalesi namuSevrebi.
– axlac xatavT?
– rasakvirvelia. amaze ukeTesi ra unda vakeTo, amaze kargs ras vizam. arada, aRaravis axsovs xelovneba, mudmivad cdiloben ekonomikis amoqaCvas – wiwaven, eWidebian, eZalebian, magram Zvrasac ver uSvrebian… amasobaSi ki xelovneba qreba, fexakrefiT gvecleba. mas ara aqvs amdeni dro, mouxelTebelia. viRacam xom unda daakavos, hoda, mec vxatav…
– rogor fiqrobT, mxatvarma zustad unda asaxos realoba Tu sakuTari warmosaxva gadaitanos tiloze? ixveweba Tu absurdamde midis Tanamedrove mxatvroba da… mogwonT rusudan fetviaSvili?
– is, rac leonardom da rafaelma gaakeTes, ukvdavia. mas Semdeg win veRarc wavida xelovneba. marTalia, arsebobs rembrandti, gadaidga ferweraSi raRac nabijebi, rogor ara – gaCnda impresionizmi imitom, rom unda gaCeniliyo, magram win wavida Tu ara mxatvroba, es kidev sakiTxavia… rusudani Zalian momwons, didebuli mxatvaria.
– adamianis yofierebis Tqveneburi gansazRvra rogoria?
– adamiani RvTiuri warmoSobisaa, sxvagvarad ver avxsniT sulis mravalferovan gamovlinebebs, ver Seiqmneboda Sedevrebi, romelic Tan gvdevs da Cvens ZiriTad movaleobas, funqcias, daniSnulebas gvaxsenebs. adamianma bevrjer ganicada evolucia. religiebic xels uwyobda Cveni sulierebis, rwmenis Camoyalibebas da ganviTarebas.
– Tqvens zogierT CanawerSi aTeistobas CemulobT. RmerTi gwamT?
– me axlos gavecani xuT wamyvan religias. xuTive Zlieria, magram islami momwons, ufro progresulad mimaCnia…
– muslimani xarT?
– ara, me ki momwons islami, magram sakiTxavia, romeli religia mesadageba, rogorc qarTvels. mimaCnia, rom Cveni xalxi qristianobas unda daubrundes. Cven imdenad gvaqvs Sesisxlxorcebuli marTlmadidebloba, sxva rwmena TviTmyofadobas, qarTvelobas dagvakargvinebs. sxvagvarad ver ganvviTardebiT rogorc eri. qristianoba Sesulia Cvens mwerlobaSi, mxatvrobaSi, poeziaSi, amiT vsuldgmulobT. Rvinis qveyana varT, vazis…
– ra aris ufali Tqvens warmosaxvaSi?
– amas verc erTi religia ver xsnis. mimaCnia, rom raRac miuwvdomeli Zala arsebobs, kosmiuri goni, romelic gvmarTavs. misi neba-survili adamianis meqanizmSia Cadebuli da makontrolebel grZnobaSi, romelsac qarTvelebi sindiss veZaxiT.
– saqarTvelo ra asociacias iwvevs TqvenSi, ra ferebSi xedavT mas?
– Cven varT mglisferi ZaRli, romelsac xan dasavleTi awvalebs, xanac CrdiloeTi.
– vaJasadmi miZRvnil werilSi saqarTveloze daseul yornebs axsenebT. vis gulisxmobT yornebSi?
– im ucxo sjulis adamianebs, saakaSvilma rom SemouSva baTumis uZveles ubanSi, aq daasaxla da veRarc vicilebT Tavidan, ver vyriT qveynidan. isini dagvesivnen da gvjijgnian. axla globalizaciis epoqa gamoigones. ar SeiZleba Cveni aq CarTva, ver gavuZlebT, gadavSendebiT rogorc eri, uZvelesi civilizaciis matarebeli geni da jiSi. sakuTar tradiciebs unda gavufrTxildeT, im graalis Tass, mariamma rom gvarguna da dRemde Semogvinaxa ena, damwerloba, mxatvroba da poezia.
– funjs rom iRebT, ukve iciT rac unda daxatoT Tu Semdeg modis muza?
– xan ise var, xan ase. CemTvis mxatvrobis procesi sicocxlis uwyveti jaWvia, romelic mudmivad CemSia.
– Tqveni Semoqmedebis yvelaze did warmatebad romeli naSromi migaCniaT?
– jer ar Semiqmnia is, rac marTlac iqneboda gansakuTrebuli aRniSvnis da aRiarebis sagani. ZiebaSi var… Tumca, albaT, veRarc movipoveb im erTaderTs, saganZurad rom darCeba ers.
– ras niSnavs TqvenTvis siqvele, simamace?
– tarieli rom daexmareba nuradin- fridons, esaa CemTvis qveloba: `Zaxili mesma, Sevxeden, moyme amayad yioda~… an gaixseneT SoTa niSnianiZis taepi: `yivis Tu ara qarTuli sisxli, isev solomon kiTxulobs boRmiT, pasuxad dinji qirqili ismis juba-jvriani samasi moymis~… am or frazaSi simamacec da qvelobacaa asaxuli. msgavsi bevri gvaqvs qarTvelebs, ubralod, sawyenia, rom am bolos ufro rTuli mosaZiebelia qveli, mamaci qarTveli, romelic mxolod samSobloze fiqriT aTen-aRamebs.
– nel-nela siyvarulis Temasac mivuaxlovdiT, batono zurab. gulwrfelad miTxariT am gadmosaxedidan, WeSmaritad Tu gyvarebiaT vinme?
– swored am gadmosaxedidan davrwmundi, rom dedaCemze metad arc erTi qali ar myvarebia. uamravi gataceba mqonia, magram rusTveliseuli didi siyvaruli ar ganmicdia. iciT xom, rom damtkicda, SoTas Tamar-mefe hyvarebia Zalumad?
– Tamar mefis donis qali erTi iyo saqarTveloSi, isic me-12 saukuneSi da Tqven sad unda genaxaT?
– ra Tqma unda, me msgavss sad vnaxavdi… hoda, amitomac ar myvarebia aravin (gulianad icinis).
– Tu SegiZliaT ganazogadoT saqarTvelos mxatvrebis problemebi?
– SekveTebi ar aris, rac yvelaze didi laxvaria qarTveli mxatvrebisaTvis. xelovani sakuTari namuSevrebiT Tavs ver irCens, Tu vinme ar daexmara. me aravin mexmareba da amitomac bevr rameze vTqvi uari, imazec ki, rac adamians elementaruli moTxovnilebebis dasakmayofileblad sWirdeba. vgulisxmob normalur saWmels, perangs Tu fexsacmels. samagierod, vyidulob qaRalds da saRebavebs. me amas vaxerxeb, radgan xatvis moTxovnileba sxva danarCenze Zlieria CemSi. yvela xom ver SeZlebs yofiTi Seswiros xelovnebas…
– yvelaze metad risi geSiniaT?
– isev niSnianiZe gamaxsenda: `ar CageZinos, ar CagTvlimos, sul amas vSiSob, Cemo amayo, mSveniero, mamaco jiSo~… Cven Zalian didi jiSis xalxi varT, magram cotani davrCiT. samwuxarod, CagveZina da davkargeT qalaqebi, regionebi, uzarmazari teritoriebi. Cemi yuriT gavigone erTxel SevardnaZis sityvebi: `afxazebs cota movefereo~… cota ki ara, bevri unda movferebodiT afxazebsac da osebsac, Cveni gulgrilobiT, gulcivobiT davkargeT isini. movaduneT yuradReba da… davkargeT. sanam rusebi ar gadaSendebian, ar daiqcevian, ver davibrunebT maT.
– ZiriTadad ra filosofiebs aviTarebT Tqvens SemoqmedebaSi?
– metafizikas, idealur filosofias da religias. xandaxan xdeba isec, rom gadavdivar Seucnobel ganzomilebaSi, sadac araviTari sazRvrebi ar aris, magram vbrundebi, radgan meSinia, CemTvis ucnob garemoSi ar davkargo TviTmyofadoba.
– tibetSi mogzaurobaze ar giocnebiaT?
– ara, Cveni, qarTuli sinamdvile arafriT Camouvardeba tibets, Cven RvTismSoblis wilxvedri qveyana varT, aq ufro metia RvTis madli, vidre danarCen msoflioSi, amis danaxva da Secnobaa saWiro, ise ki… vocnebob mogzaurobaze, luvri minda vnaxo da Semdeg – egviptis piramidebi, sxva araferi.
– yvelaze didi STabeWdileba romel stiqias mouxdenia Tqvenze, romelTan grZnobT siaxloves?
– miwasTan, miwa meZaxis…
Pპ.ს. batonma zurabma Tavad SemomTavaza am interviusTvis saTauri – `sad daikarga Teatris farda?!~, romelic misi ucabedi aRsasrulis gamo SevcvaleT. imedia, es kiTxva ar darCeba upasuxod da misi aforiaqebuli sulic hpovebs simSvides.