თამაზ ბაკურიძე: შემიძლია გარკვეულწილად დადებითი როლი ვითამაშო პროცესში, თუმცა მთავრობის დაკრულზეც ვერ ვიცეკვებ
ნინო ცხვარაძე 591 98 24 30
problema, romelic wlebia regionis winaSe idga, SeiZleba iTqvas, gadaWrilia. male yofili 25-e da 53-e samxedro batalionebis teritoriaze TviTneburad SeWrili mosaxleobisTvis maRali, mravalbiniani korpusebis mSenebloba daiwyeba. dasaxlebas, romelsac `ocnebis qalaqi~ erqva, amieridan `axdenili ocnebebis qalaqi~ daerqmeva. korpusebis mSenebloba regionis mTavrobis Tavmjdomarem ramdenime dRis win sagangebo brifingze daaanonsa. imave dRes Tornike riJvaZe `ocnebis qalaqSi~ mivida da mosaxleobas Tavad uTxra xelisuflebis gadawyvetilebis Sesaxeb.
Tornike riJvaZe aWaraSi `ocnebis~ xelisuflebis rigiT mesame mTavrobis meTauria, magram pirveli iyo, vinc TviTneburad SesaxlebulebTan mivida da adgilze naxa, ra xdeboda dasaxlebaSi, rogor pirobebSi uwevdaT ojaxebs cxovreba, gavixsenoT, rom baton Tornikes `ocnebis qalaqSi~ stumrobisas majis saaTi aCuqes da drois aTvlac problemebis mosagvareblad im dRes daiwyo. meored, regionis pirveli piri uxvi naleqis Sedegad teritoriis datborvis gamo mivida da mosaxleobis gverdiT dadga. axalgazrda liderma Sesaxlebulebs imedi gauCina, Tumca, arian iseTebic, romlebsac dResac ar sjeraT mTavrobis sasikeTo gadawyvetileba da amboben, rom xelisufleba ityueba.
rogorc aRmoCnda, naCuqarma majis saaTma Tavisi saqme gaakeTa. TviTneburad SeWrilebis im nawils, romlebsac saxelmwifosgan daxmareba esaWiroebaT, miiReben kidec. Tumca, vidre xelisufleba `ocnebis qalaqTan~ mimarTebaSi sabolood Camoyalibdeboda, iyo uamravi saprotesto aqcia, romelsac saTaveSi uflebadamcveli Tamaz bakuriZe edga. `ocnebis qalaqSi~ amboben, rom maT brZola uflebadamcvelma aswavla da didia Tamaz bakuriZis wvlili maTi pirobebis samomavlod gaumjobesebis kuTxiT.
uflebadamcvels araerTxel usaubria `aWarasTan~ TviTneburad SeWrilTa problemebze da maTi gadaWris gzebze. dRes Tamaz bakuriZe xelisuflebas `ocnebis qalaqis~ problemis dadebiTad gadaWras uwonebs, Tumca ambobs, rom procesebs daakvirdeba da Tu saWiroeba moiTxovs, isev gamarTavs saprotesto aqciebs xalxTan erTad.
– dRevandeli gadasaxedidan rTulia Seafaso is, rac yofili 25-e da 53-e batalionebis teritoriaze mcxovreblebma gadaitanes. maxsovs, 2013 wels, roca TviTneburad SeWrilebma daxmarebisTvis mommarTes, vnaxe uamravi adamiani gausaZlis pirobebSi. wina xelisuflebis dros maTTvis yuradReba aravis miuqcevia. iTxovdnen Svelas. ojaxebs Tavis droze vurCie, erT muStad Sekruliyvnen miuxedavad imisa, rom aravin icoda, rodis gadawydeboda maTi problema, radgan xalxis Zalas xelisufleba ver moereoda. isic vicodi, rom xelisufleba `ocnebis qalaqSi~ mcxovrebTa problemebis gadaWris winaaRmdegi iqneboda da asec iyo. pirveli aqcia mTavrobis saxlTan rom gavmarTeT, maSindelma Tavmjdomare arCil xabaZem xisti politika arCia da Tqva – iq mcxovrebTa 95 procents daxmareba ar sWirdebao. xalxi gavafrTxileT da Tu ar gaiTvaliswineben, Zalismieri meTodebiT gamovasaxlebT teritoriidano, – ixsenebs Tamaz bakuriZe.
– arCil xabaZem specialuri komisia Seqmna da swored misi daskvnis safuZvelze Tqva, rom mosaxleobis umetes nawils daxmareba ar esaWiroeba…
– geTanxmebiT, realurad marTlac imuSava komisiam, magram iyo xarvezebi, radgan individualurad ar Seiswavles ojaxebis mdgomareoba. daeyrdnen mxolod gamgeobebidan miwodebul informaciebs. maSin SevTavaze kidec xelisuflebas, individualurad gasaubrebodnen adamianebs, Tu ra iyo maTi `ocnebis qalaqSi~ dasaxlebis mizezi, magram ar gaiTvaliswines. komisiis Sedegi iyo is, rom fuWad imuSava. dRes mediasaSualebebidan sakanonmdeblo da aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebebis warmomadgenlebi Tavs iwoneben, Zalismier meTodebs ar mivmarTeTo. mimarTes, rogor ara, Tumca mosaxleobis mxridan winaaRmdegobas waawydnen da gaCerdnen. teritoriaze Sevida aRsrulebis da sxva organos warmomadgenlebi, xalxi maT uSiSrad daxvda da im dRis Semdeg msgavsi ram aravis ufiqria. Tavis droze arCil xabaZes vuTxari kidec, Tu gsurT, rom `ocnebis qalaqis~ problema regionSi socialuri afeTqebis mizezi ar gaxdes, SewyviteT Zalis gamoyeneba-meTqi.
– batono Tamaz, Cven araerTxel gvisaubria TviTneburad SesaxlebulTa problemis gadaWris gzebze. dRes xelisuflebam swored is versia airCia, razec Tqven wlebis ganmavlobaSi saubrobdiT – gamosavals maRali, mravalbiniani korpusebis mSeneblobaSi xedavdiT…
– iyo msjeloba imazec, rom `ocnebis qalaqSi~ mcxovrebTaTvis is farTebi, rac dakavebuli hqondaT, sakuTrebaSi gadaecaT, amis winaaRmdegi viyavi, radgan, farTebis dakanoneba SigniT, mosaxleobaSi gamoiwvevda areulobas, rac aucileblad gareT gadmoinacvlebda. gamosavali mainc maRali, mravalbiniani korpusebis mSenebloba iyo. mTavrobam saukeTeso gamosavali ipova da ukve yvelasTvis cnobilia, ojaxebs, romlebic daxmarebas saWiroeben, xelisufleba daexmareba.
– rogor fiqrobT, aris mTavroba mzad daanonsebuli realobad aqcios? aqvs gawerili is RonisZiebebi, rac unda gakeTdes? rogor gansazRvraven, vis ra da rogor ekuTvnis?
– marTlac rTuli samuSaoebi elodeba xelisuflebas win. kanoni aRiarebs ekomigrants da Tu ar vcdebi, marCenaldakarguls. kanonier da samarTlebriv sivrceSi unda moeqces is, Tu rogor unda dakmayofildes mravalSviliani, martoxela, unarSezRuduli, omis veteranebi, socialurad daucveli ojaxebi. Tu mTavroba fiqrobs, rom daakmayofilebs mxolod im kategorias, romelsac kanoni iTvaliswinebs, maSin ufro uares da masStabur saprotesto aqciebs miviRebT. vurCie da kidev erTxel Tqveni gazeTis saSualebiT vurCev mTavrobas, ojaxebis yvela is kategoria gaiTvaliswinon, romlebic `ocnebis qalaqSi~ cxovroben, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi ukureaqcias miviRebT da ara `axdenili ocnebebis qalaqs~.
– procesebSi Tavidanve iyaviT CarTuli. ra doziT gaagrZelebT monawileobas?
– mqonda Sexvedra mTavrobis aparatSi, ainteresebdaT Cemi mosazrebebi aRniSnuli problemis dadebiTad gadaWrasTan dakavSirebiT. aseve, mTavroba gamoTqvams survils da mzadyofnas, CaverTo procesebSi. amisTvisac mzad var. saprotes-to aqciebis gamarTvis garda, SemiZlia garkveulwilad dadebiTi roli viTamaSo procesSi, Tumca mTavrobis dakrulzec ver vicekveb. procesSi CaverTvebi erTi mizniT – xalxis uflebebis dasacavad. aqve mTavrobis misamarTiT, xmamaRla vityvi – Tu davinaxe, rom araswori gziT wavidnen da aRebul valdebulebas ar Seasruleben, pirveli viqnebi, vinc amas SeewinaaRmdegeba.
– rogor fiqrobT, romelma arasamTavrobo organizaciebma unda miiRon am procesSi monawileoba?
– mTavrobis Tavmjdomarem ganacxada, rom CaerTon, Tu romelime arasamTavrobo seqtoris warmomadgenels amis survili aqvs da mimaCnia, rom es aucilebelicaa. vfiqrob, `demokratiis institutma~, `saerTaSoriso gamWvirvaloba saqarTvelom~, saxalxo damcvelis warmomadgenlobam uari ar unda Tqvan. sxvaTa Soris, `ocnebis qalaqis~ problemebze `borjRali~ muSaobda ciala qaTamiZis xelmZRvanelobiT. `demokratiis institutis~ warmomadgenlebi `ocnebis qalaqSi~ arasdros misulan, Tumca geno gelaZes Tavisi Sexedulebebi hqonda sakiTxis irgvliv. geno gelaZis organizebiT, mTavrobis warmomadgenlebi da TviTneburad Sesaxlebulebi demokratiis CarTulobis centrSi erTxel Sexvdnen erTmaneTs, magram, maT Soris SeTanxmeba ar Sedga.
– roca xelisufleba kargs akeTebs, amas ratomRac adamianebis garkveuli nawili politikuri qulebis Cawerad miiCnevs. arada, dRes, roca `ocnebis qalaqis~ sakiTxi dadebiTad gadaWra, arc saprezidento da arc saparlamento arCevnebia kars momdgari…
– geTanxmebiT, rom xval an zeg arCevnebi ar aris daniSnuli, Tumca im proeqtis ganxorcielebas, rac daaanonsa mTavrobam, 3 weli mainc dasWirdeba da 2020 wlis saarCevno periods emTxveva. es iTqva kidec. swored arCevnebis win gaWrian lents `ocnebis qalaqSio~. gaWran, ra problemaa, xelisufleba Tu kargs gaakeTebs, Tavi moiwonos, amaSi cuds verafers vxedav. mTavrobam `ocnebis qalaqSi~ korpusebis mSenebloba rom daaanonsa, `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ warmomadgenlebma gancxadeba gaakeTes. am partias arc moraluri da arc zneobrivi ufleba aqvs Temis irgvliv isaubros, radgan adamianebi Tavis droze am mdgomareobaSi rom aRmoCndnen, maTi damsaxurebaa. mixeil saakaSvils da `nacionalur moZraobas~ socialuri politika da qveyanaSi am mxriv fonis gaumjobeseba ar ainteresebda. mxolod usaxuri Senobebis agebiT da sakuTar jibeebSi fulis CadebiT iyvnen dakavebulni. ratom ar dainteresda `nacionaluri moZraoba~ maT dros maRalsarTuliani korpusebi rom Sendeboda romelime biznesmenisTvis socialuri pasuxismgebloba daekisrebina (binebis gadacema socialurad daucvel ojaxebze, martoxelebze, mravalSvilianebze). aseTi ram momxdara? me ar gamigia da axla maTi mxridan kritika miuRebelia. vsaubrob rogorc rigiTi moqalaqe, romelic im drosac da Semdegac procesebs akvirdeboda. yofil xelisuflebas binebis gadacemiT Tavi ar mouklavs. erTaderTi, rac maxsovs, es iyo lermontovis quCaze TviTneburad SeWrilebs farTebi daukanones. winasaarCevno periodi iyo, Zalian uWirda maSin saakaSvils da xmebs sanTliT eZebda.
– ra ganwyobiT Sexvdnen `ocnebis qalaqis~ mcxovrebni xelisuflebis gadawyvetilebas?
– mosaxleobis didi nawili bolomde ar aris informirebuli. araswori informaciis gavrceleba, Sida dapirispireba da umniSvnelo konfliqtebi iqneba, magram, roca adamianebis ocnebebi realobad iqceva, yvela darwmundeba, rom xelisufleba ar ityueba.
– amasobaSi viRacebi xelsac moiTboben, mRvrie wyalSi xom Tevzis daWera advilia…
– bevria iseTi, visac ar ekuTvnis xelisuflebis mxridan daxmareba da qoxic imisTvis aqvs iq Cadgmuli, rom mTavrobas raRac gamorCes. es xelisuflebam unda gaakontrolos da am sakiTxSi ar Caverevi, verc gavakontroleb, radgan ar vici, vin ra qonebas flobs. kontrolis berketi xelisuflebis xelSia da imaT, visac qoneba aqvs, arc araferi unda miscen.
– ar fiqrobT, rom msgavsi `ocnebis qalaqi~ SesaZloa kidev gaCndes?
– aris amis saSiSroebac, Tumca nakleb savaraudoa, radgan iseTi didi teritoria, rogoric 25-e da 53-e batalionebs ekavaT, arsadaa Tavisufali. msgavsi problema sadac SeiZleba Seiqmnas, aseTi farTebi xelisuflebis kontrolqveSaa.
– daaxloebiT ramdeni ojaxia binis molodinSi `ocnebis qalaqidan~?
– aseTi 1600-mde ojaxia, regionSi ki TviTneburad Sesaxlebuli ojaxebi mravladaa.
– Tornike riJvaZemde ori Tavmjdomare hyavda regions. ratom ver moaxerxes winamorbedebma `ocnebis qalaqis~ problemis gadaWra?
– arCil xabaZis pozicia TviTneburad SesaxlebulTa teritoriidan gayvana iyo. is sxva versias arc ganixilavda. rac Seexeba zurab pataraZes, mosvlisTanave survili gamoTqva, CemTan erTad misuliyo `ocnebis qalaqSi~, magram Semdeg ratomRac ver gadawyvita. damrCa STabeWdileba, rom mas mosaxleobis SiSi hqonda, miuxedavad imisa, garantia miveci, aravin Sexvdeboda cudad.
– gamodis, axalgazrda liderma, winamorbedebisgan gansxvavebiT, gariska…
– batoni Tornike riJvaZe windaxedulad moiqca, Tavdapirvelad, roca mivida `ocnebis qalqSi~, mosaxleobis nawili ar Sexvda. meored maSin mivida, roca teritoria daitbora da xalxis gverdiT dadga. mosaxleoba, SeiZleba iTqvas, miiCvia. Tamamad vityvi, im problemis gadaWra, rac wina mTavrobis Tavmjdomareebma ver an ar moaxerxes, am axalgazrda kacma SeZlo..
