,,მაინცდამაინც გავრილოვის ჩამოსვლა და სისხლის დაღვრა იყო აუცილებელი, ამ დათმობებზე რომ წასულიყვნენ?”
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 24 48 93
`erTiani saqarTvelo – demokratiuli moZraobis~ wevri, umaRlesi sabWos damoukidebeli deputati giorgi cincqilaZe qveyanaSi ganviTarebul movlenebsa da partiaSi ganxorcielebuli cvlilebebis mizezebze CvenTan saubrobs.
– telekompania `rusTavi-2~-is gadacema `postskriptumis~ wamyvanma gabuniam ruseTis prezidents pirdapir eTerSi rusulad agina, ramac sazogadoebis didi ukmayofileba gamoiwvia. mmarTvelma gundma es qmedeba provokaciad aRiqva. Tqven ra komentars gaakeTebdiT?
– es ar aris provokacia, es aris pirdapir gamiznuli qmedeba, Sors mimavali gegmis erT-erTi nawili, romlis saboloo mizania saqarTvelo Caaban ruseTTan dapirispirebaSi. mitingebiT, SimSilobiT da Tavxeduri gamosvlebiT ver miaRwies areulobas da axla am ucenzuro, gaumarTlebeli, araadekvaturi mimarTviT cdiloben amxela imperiis gamowvevas. piradad me rom gavakeTo msgavsi ram, modiT da CamqoleT, sxvas arafers davimsaxureb. es yvelaferi isev da isev xelisuflebis sisustis bralia. Tavis droze unda aRekveTa am xalxis aseTi aRviraxsniloba. erTxel, orjer, samjer ar ages pasuxi da xom xedavT, ras akeTeben. mTavrobisgan Secdomebis kaskadi modis yoveldRe. politikur gancxadebebs akeTeben, magram pasuxisgebaSi aravis aZleven. ar mjera, rom Jurnalistis pirad iniciativasTan gvaqvs saqme. es mixeil saakaSvilis xelweraa, misi nafiqr-naazrevia, romelic zedmiwevniT Seasrula gabuniam. Cvenma liderma nino burjanaZem gancxadebac gaakeTa, rom aucilebelia Seiswavlon, vin da ra Zalebi dgas am qmedebis ukan da damnaSaveebi saTanadod daisajon.
– rogor SeafasebT momitingeebis winaaRmdeg Zalis gamoyenebas?
– erTaderTi politikuri partia varT da erTaderTi politikuri figuraa qalbatoni nino, romelic kritikul situaciebSi barikadebis orive mxares idga. gverwmuneT, orive mware gamocdileba iyo. swored revoluciuri gamocdilebidan gamomdinare vacxadebT, rom yvelaferi am dros damokidebulia xelisuflebaze, ramdenad swor da adekvatur nabijebs gadadgams. samarTaldamcvelebisgan Zalis gamoyeneba Secdoma iyo. didi imedi gvaqvs, rom xelisufleba SeZlebs Secdomebis gamoricxvas, raTa qveyanaSi viTareba dawynardes da procesebi revoluciuri scenariT ar ganviTardes.
– proporciuli arCevnebis Sesaxeb jer kidev wina interviuSi vsaubrobdiT, sadac aRniSneT, rom es sistema aucilebelia qveynis kidev ufro demokratiuli ganviTarebisaTvis. rogorc xedavT, Tqveni survili asrulda.
– diax, axlac igives gavimeoreb, rom proporciul sistemamde misvla qveynisaTvis sasicocxlo mniSvnelobis amocanaa. es sistema Seqmnis im viTarebas, rom quCebSi Sekrebebi, amboxebebi da mitingebi aRar iqneba saWiro. erTxel da samudamod unda mieceT qarTvelebs imis saSualeba, rom vinc namdvilad surT, is ixilon qveynis sakanonmdeblo organoSi.
– Tqvens partias Tavidanve gansakuTrebulad surda am sistemis Secvla, radgan Tavis droze ver gadalaxeT barieri. . .
– gaxsovT, albaT, 2013 wlidan dRemde rogor movdivarT. im gayalbebul arCevnebSic ki xmebis 10%-ze mets mainc viRebdiT. aWaraSi 2016 wlisaTvis xmebis 7%-mde iyo daTvlili, ris safuZvelzec umaRles sabWoSi erTi mandati movipove. ra Tqma unda, meore mandatic Cveni iyo, romelic iusticiis ministris da sasamarTlos daxmarebiT, mogvpares. marTalia, es yvelaferi ukve warsuls Cabarda, magram imitom gavixsene, rom xazi gamesva erTi ZiriTadi sakiTxisTvis – Cvens partias xmebis da mxardamWerebis problema arasodes hqonia. `15-lariani~ arCevnebi rom daerqva, iqac ki gadavlaxeT barieri.
– ras erCodnen Tqvens partias?
– poziciac da opoziciac mtrad gvracxavs erTi mizeziT – Cven vacxadebT, rom oseTis da afxazeTis dakarguli teritoriebis dasabruneblad molaparakebebis magidas ruseTTan erTad unda mivusxdeT. am qveyanasTan daZabuloba rom arafers gvargebs, dRes arsebuli mdgomareobac adasturebs, romelsac isev da isev `nacionalebi~ qmnian, swored maT ar adardebT arc dakarguli teritoriebi da arc samSoblo, romelic SesaZloa, ruseTis mimarT maT erT-erT mizanmimarTul qmedebas Seewiros. Cven xelisufleba araerTxel gavafrTxileT, rom isini qveynis keTildReobas, mis ekonomikas safrTxes uqmnian. jer kidev zviad gamsaxurdias savarZelSi CabrZanebidan moyolebuli ver gamovediT im krizisidan, rasac ruseTTan urTierTobebis daZabva hqvia. axla irakli kobaxiZe rom gadadga, ra Seicvala? erTi paikis gadaadgilebiT saWadrako dafaze araferi Seicvleba da pozitiuri Sedegic ver gveqneba. parlamentSi dumis deputatebis miyvana Segnebulad moxda Tu Seugneblad? Tu Seugneblad, kidev ufro cudad hqoniaT amaT saqme. mTeli saqarTvelos mosaxleoba gamovida quCaSi da yvelam vnaxeT, ra Sedegic miviReT. kargia, rom orive mxares dafiqsirebuli damnaSaveebi pasuxs ageben, magram riT ver viswavleT qarTvelebma Wkua? 30 weli gavida 9 aprilis Semdeg da is tkivili isev da isev iRviZebs, rogorc ki samarTaldamcvelebi Zalas iyeneben mSvidobiani mosaxleobis winaaRmdeg. rac moxda, namdvilad dasagmobia… erTi adamianis mcired sisxladac ar Rirs mTeli qveynis partiebis keTildReoba… 26 maisic gavixsenoT, roca xalxi daxoces da gvamebi saxuravebze Seyares…
– CaatareT yriloba da Tqveni partiis saxelwodeba SecvaleT, ra mizans emsaxureboda sityvebis gadaadgileba. adre iyo `demokratiuli moZraoba – erTiani saqarTvelo~.
– diax, axlaa `erTiani saqarTvelo – demokratiuli moZraoba~. wina planze gamovitaneT partiis ZiriTadi mizani, romelic mimarTulia saqarTvelos gamTlianebisaken. es gadawyda riggareSe yrilobaze, romelsac 439 delegati eswreboda. Tavad nino burjanaZe am cvlilebebs imiTac xsnis, rom 2020 wlis arCevnebisTvis vemzadebiT, vapirebT partiis saqmianobis gaZlierebas da qveynis keTildReobaze zrunvas, aseve, saqarTvelos 30-wliani politikuri Cixidan daxsnas. yrilobaze vaCveneT mitingebis darbevis kadrebi, romelsac bevrma ver gauZlo da darbazidan gavida. . . yvelaferi es ukve gadavitaneT da amis Semdeg im gavrilovis parlamentis spikeris savarZelSi Casma rogorRa ikadres? sad iyo protokolis samsaxuri? aseTi Secdomis daSveba warmoudgenelia. cotaTi adre aWaris ganaTlebis, kulturis da sportis ministri imis gamo moxsnes, bavSvebma rusuli droSebi rom aafriales. SamiliSvili, parkidan msvlelobis dros, evropis moedanTan arc iyo misuli, mTavrobis Tavmjdomarem rom gaaTavisufla . . . me mainc mgonia, rom yvelaferi Segnebulad moxda, Tan winaswar afrTxilebda maT opozicia. amitom ufro windaxedulad unda gaeanalizebinaT procesebi.
– turizmis mxriv gagviWirdeba?
– axlaxan Semxvda ori turoperatori, 40-50 adgilze mouxsnes javSani. panikaSi iyvnen. maisidan rusi turistebis didi nakadi iyo, rasac yoveli baTumeli statistikis gareSec xedavda. ruseTTan didi xnis urTierTobis istoria gvakavSirebs da orive mxare kmayofili iyo am SexvedrebiT. Cvenc ar migviklia stumarmaspinZloba, Tan ruseTidan Camosulebma fulis xarjvac kargi ician sxva qveynebis turistebTan SedarebiT. sakmaoze meti zarali gveqneba, amaSi darwmunebuli var. gavixsenoT ruseT-TurqeTs Soris daZabuloba. maSinac putinma akrZala aviareisebi da miTiTeba misca turoperatorebs, ar emuSavaT am qveyanasTan. Tqven warmoidgineT, TurqeTma, amodena qveyanam moisaklisa rusi turistebi da Cven, vinc amdeni wlis Semdeg isev davibruneT es amouwuravi bazari, kvlav davrCiT gatexili varclis amara ramdenime politikosis daudevrobis gamo.
– xom arsebobs SemovliTi gzebi?
– ki, magram bevrs ar surs amdeni tranziti, Tanac ukve SiSis faqtoric TamaSobs did rols, ar ician, xval omSi gaexveva Tu ara qveyana, sadac dasvenebas apirebdnen. isicaa, gabunias da gavrilovis eqscesebis gamo afxazeTis da oseTis Temac Sors gadaiweva. Tu isev vicadeT
7-10 weli da droze ar mivxedeT problemas, es Temebi saerTod amovardeba dRis wesrigidan. xom ar SeiZleba, Cveni xeliT vafuWebdeT yvelafers. gaixseneT: wina interviuSi xazgasmiT aRvniSne, universitetSi Sexvedraze TiTs rom gviqnevdnen irakli kobaxiZe da margvelaSvili, maSindeli prezidenti, swored am proporciuli arCevnebis daniSvnas viTxovdiT da ara nulovan bariers, 3-4-procentianzec Tanaxma viyaviT. ra gamodis, axla akeTeben imas, rasac ramdenime welia viTxovT. maSin sul provokatorebi da ruseTis agentebi gviZaxes, axla, sainteresoa, vin moiazreba am `epiTetebis~ qveS?
– rogor fiqrobT, maincdamainc axla ratom gadawyvites am sistemis SemoReba?
– imitom, rom mixvdnen, dapirebas Sesruleba unda. xalxs kargad axsovs, swored saTaveSi mosvlisas gvpirdebodnen proporciuli sistemis danergvas. maSindeli 70 deputatis xelweracaa am sakiTxze dafiqsirebuli. 2016 wlisTvis rom SemoeRoT, ukeTesi viTareba gveqneboda axla, radgan parlamentSi Sevidodnen is adamianebi, romlebic msgavsi Secdomebis daSvebis uflebas ar miscemdnen, magram ganavardeba moindomes da miiRes, rac hqondaT misaRebi. yvelaferi erTmaneTzea awyobili da gansakuTrebul, saTuT midgomas iTxovs. politika iuvelirulad unda gaataro, rom amodena imperiebSi damoukidebloba SeunarCuno Cvens patara qveyanas. Cvens liders arasodes daukavebia Casafrebulis pozicia, yovelTvis eris, qveynis interesebs emsaxureboda da moemsaxureba isev.
– proporciuli sistema gulisxmobs Wrel parlaments, romelic SesaZloa, yovelTvis ver mivides konsensusamde, rac aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebis muSaobas Seaferxebs da qveynis ganviTareba Seyovndeba.
– am xelisuflebisgan araferia gamoricxuli. es sistema jerac ar aris danergili, amaTgan isicaa mosalodneli, rom parlamentSi Setanili iniciativa iniciativad darCes da ar ganxorcieldes cxovrebaSi. jer mxolod samuSao jgufi iqmneba, romelsac bevri ram aqvs gasakeTebeli. aWaris umaRles sabWoSic rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi, aravin icis, ase rom, winaswar msjeloba, ras moitans sxvadasxva partiisgan Seqmnili Wreli parlamenti, vfiqrob, naadrevia. jer mivideT bolomde da Semdeg visaubroT, ra da rogor ajobebs.
– ra saxis samuSaoa Casatarebeli am kuTxiT?
– bevri ram gasarkvevia blokebTan dakavSirebiT, koeficienti rogor gadanawildeba da a.S. aq mTavaria gadaunawilebeli mandatis Tema, romelsac ukve SeveCexeT. saqarTvelos organul kanonSi arCevnebis Sesaxeb sul sxvanairad aris gawerili mandatebTan dakavSirebuli muxli, xolo aWaraSi – sxvanairad. visac meti procentuli Sedegi eqneboda, is gadaunawilebeli mandati mas unda aeRo. ratom unda aeRo mas? visac cota aklda barieramde, imisTvis unda miecaT. aq bonusebSic iyo ZaRlis Tavi damarxuli. . . axlac sWirdeba amas yuradReba. dafinansebasTan dakavSirebiTacaa gasarkvevi, romelic movipoveT da wlebis ganmavlobaSi 10%-ze meti gvqonda. Semdeg bloki dagviSales, xolo Cveni brZoliT mopovebuli dafinanseba viRac jojuas gadasces, romelic `qristian-demokratiul partias~ daakavSires. axla movlenebs win ver gavuswreb, radgan ar vici, ra rogor iqneba.
– apirebT sxva partiebTan blokis Sekvras?
– Cven manamde gaverTiandiT, raTa proporciuli arCevnebi daniSnuliyo da, rogorc xedavT, am gaerTianebam realuri Sedegi gamoiRo. jerjerobiT aravisTan blokis Sekvras ar vapirebT. vimedovnebT, rom amis aucilebloba ar dagvidgeba. arsebulma politikurma da socialurma krizisma im etaps miaRwia, rodesac xelisuflebam ukan daixia da xalxisken nabijebi gadmodga, magram maincdamainc gavrilovis Camosvla da sisxlis daRvra iyo aucilebeli, am daTmobebze rom wasuliyvnen?!
– rac Seexeba aWaris arCevnebs, Cvens konstituciaSi ar aris gawerili proporciuli arCevnebis Catareba, Tundac 2024 wlisTvis.
– aqac Seiqmneba komisia da, saqarTvelos konstituciaSi cvlilebis paralelurad, cvlilebebs Seitanen aWaris konstituciaSi. am kuTxiT umaRles sabWoSi ukve mimdinareobs muSaoba sxva partiebTan – Sexvedrebis, konsultaciebis da msjelobis reJimSi.
