ოპოზიციის ნაწილი თვლის – ქუჩა არ არის ის გზა, რომელიც ტაძართან მიგიყვანს
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 93
saqarTveloSi am bolo kviras ganviTarebuli movlenebis kvaldakval, interviu vTxoveT saqarTvelos parlamentis vice-spikers, xelvaCauris #72 olqis maJoritar deputats ilia nakaSiZes
– batono ilia, Tqven parlamentSi moxvdiT rogorc xelvaCauris municipalitetis maJoritari deputati. aqedan gamomdinare, albaT mxars uWerT arCevnebis Sereul anu nawilobriv maJoritarul sistemas?
– piradad me xma miveci proporciuli arCevnebis sistemas, radgan im politikuri periodisTvis, rodesac es sakiTxi daisva, vfiqrobdi, rom gaaZlierebda saqarTveloSi politikuri partiebis mdgomareobas, TavisTavad gamoiwvevda partiebis ricxvis Semcirebas, ganviTardeboda maTi programuli platformebi, xelisuflebaSi mosvlis miznebi, politikuri partiebis pasuxismgebloba ki qveynis da amomrCevlebis winaSe mkveTrad gaizrdeboda.
– Tuki aseTi SesaZleblobebi gaaCnia proporciul sistemas da dahpirdiT sazogadoebas, Semdeg ratom TqviT uari 2020 wlis arCevnebis am sistemiT Catarebaze?
– im periodSi, rodesac am proeqtis parlamentSi gatanas davpirdiT sazogadoebas, gaxsovT, albaT, ra areuloba iyo dedaqalaqSi. maSin mRelvareba sul sxva faqtiT daiwyo – e.w. gavrilovis sakiTxiT. rig moTxovnebTan erTad, arCevnebis sistemis cvlilebac daayenes aqciis organizatorebma dRis wesrigSi. Cven sityva miveciT da SevasruleT, anu proeqti gan-saxilvelad gavitaneT parlamentSi, magram rogorc xedavT, Tavad deputatebma airCies Sereuli sistema. principSi, proporciuli arCevnebi rom aucileblad Catardeba 2024 wels, es ukve konstituciaSic gvaqvs Setanili. amitom ar gagvWirvebia uaris mSvidad miReba. kidev erTxel vimeoreb, piradad me proporciul arCevnebs miveci xma.
– Tuki `qarTuli ocneba~ mxars uWerda, xalxs surda, maSin ra moxda, saWiro xmebis raodenoba ratom ver miiRo am kanonproeqtma?
– eWvi gaCnda, rom es cvlileba am etapze ver gaamarTlebda. Cven konsultaciebi gvqonda arasamTavrobo organizaciebTan, opoziuri partiebis warmomadgenlebTan, SevxvdiT sazogadoebas (es yvelaferi gawerilia reglamentSi). iciT, sul vSfoTavdi – cota zedapirulad xom ar vudgebiT am sakiTxs?! Tuki ar iqneba mosaxleobis farTo mxardaWera, Zalian Znelia aseTi globaluri cvlilebis uceb ganxorcieleba. vgulisxmob, rom politikur partiebsac unda mivceT gonivruli vada, raTa SeimuSaon poziciebi axal saarCevno sistemasTan mimarTebaSi. zemoT CamoTvlil Sexvedrebze ramdenjerme wamovwie wina planze saarCevno sistemis cvlilebis sakiTxi, Tumca didi yuradReba ver miviRe sazogadoebisgan, radgan xalxs gacilebiT rTuli da pirveladi mniSvnelobis problemebi aqvs mosagvarebeli. es moTxovna xalxma ki ara, Tavad opoziciam daayena.
– . . .da miuxedavad amisa, proeqti parlamentma ar daamtkica. ra iyo es – zewola mmarTveli partiisgan?
– ara, es iyo demokratiis saRi gamoxatuleba. aman daamtkica, rom ara mxolod qveyanaSi, Sig partiaSic sruli demokratiaa da yvela irCevs imas, rac ufro marTebulad miaCnia konkretul viTarebaSi. argumentebad moiyvanes: xom xedavT, Cven ar varT mzad proporciuli arCevnebisTvis, jer kidev arsebobs destruqciuli Zalebi qveyanaSi… Sedegad, saarCevno sistemaSi cvlileba miiyvans qveyanas destabilizaciamde. maJoritarebis pozicia gaaZliera moldovaSi warmoqnilma politikurma areulobam da daZabulobam. Cvens gundSi polarizebis procesi daiwyo. zogi proporciuls uWerda mxars, zogic – maJoritarul arCevnebs.
– sufTa maJoritaruli sistema, romelic SesTavaza sazogadoebas xundaZem?
– ara, maSin Sereul sistemaze iyo saubari da ara sufTa maJoritarulze. . . am dapirispirebis gamo, imis miuxedavad, rom partiis xelmZRvanelic proporciulis momxre iyo, iZulebuli gaxda, daeni-Sna Tavisufali kenWisyra. sxvaTa Soris, uari vTqviT reitingul kenWisyraze partiaSi, raTa deputatebs es ar aReqvaT zewolad.
– arada, swored zewolad aRiqva opoziciam es Sedegi. . .
– opozicias rogorc surs, ise aRiqvams. zewola rom yofiliyo, parlamentis da partiis xelmZRvanelebi proporciuls ar mivcemdiT xmas. xom ar vmalavT – sakmaod didi Sidapartiuli brZola da kamaTi gvqonda jer kidev ori wlis win, rodesac Zlivs movaxerxeT konstituciaSi proporciul arCevnebze gadasvlis zusti TariRis miTiTeba. axlac gadaido es ricxvi qveyanaSi ganviTarebuli politikuri daZabulobis gamo. Cvenma deputatebma ar moisurves proporciuli saarCevno sistema mxolod da mxolod imitom, rom es kidev ufro arevda da daZabavda saxelmwifos mdgradobas da warmoqmnida qaoss.
– areuloba xom mainc gamoiwvia TariRis Secvlam, qveyanaSi mimdinareobs e.w. daboqlomebis farTomasStabiani aqciebi. . .
– diax, `daboqlomeba~ ki ara parlamentis piketirebac ki scades. amas akeTebs `nacionaluri moZraoba~ da misi warmonaqmni – `evropelebi~. am xalxs sxvanairad ar SeuZlia, ase muSaobdnen sul, Seneba ar ZaluZT, dangreva – ki, batono! siZulvilis enaze saubari, agresia, destruqcia – esaa maTi kredo. mikvirs, vin gvaswavlis demokratias, daaviwydaT ra xdeboda maTi mmarTvelobis periodSi? xarisxobrivad rom ganvixiloT, ra iyo 2012 wlamde da ra xdeba dRes, Seudarebelia. Tundac is rad Rirs, rom sazogadoebam daiwyo farTomasStabiani diskusiebi, ganxilvebi, rac warmoudgeneli iyo `nacionalebis~ xelisuflebis reJimSi. plus amas, vin uSlida maT warmomadgenlebs, axla boqlomebis dakidebiT rom arian dakavebuli, an vinc Tavis droze Sturmi ganaxorciela parlamentze, mieRoT proporciuli arCevnebis sistema?
– opoziciis da rigi eqspertebis mtkicebiT, 2020 wlis arCevnebi Catardeba totaluri gayalbebis da zewolis fonze.
– misamarTi SeeSalaT. mosaxleobaSi ar daweula ndobis faqtori. zogierTi eqsperti debs daskvnebs, TiTqos `qarTuli ocnebis~ reitingi daeca, rom xalxs aRar surs Cveni mmarTveloba – es yvelaferi absurdia. mosaxleobam kargad icis, rom aranairi gayalbeba da zewola ar igegmeba da ar iqneba… sityvis Tavisufleba, ekonomika, saerTaSoriso avtoriteti, simSvide – yvela am mimarTulebiT `ocneba~ seriozulad midis win.
– Tqven axseneT, rom mosaxleobas ar ainteresebs saarCevno sistemis cvlileba.
– diax, mosaxleoba ufro interesdeba qveynis ekonomikiT, infrastruqturuli mSeneblobebiT, raSic imdenad mniSvnelovani winsvla gvaqvs, rom sadRac 3-4 weliwadSi dasruldeba yvela ZiriTadi proeqti. miaqcieT erT raRacas yuradReba, – CvenTan turizmis bumia. ratom? ga-redan rodesac qveyanas uyureb, ra qmnis saxelmwifos mimzidvelobas? simSvide da komfortuli pirobebi. ki, xandaxan gvaqvs politikuri Sejaxebebi da imarTeba xmauriani aqciebi, magram saboloo jamSi, turistebi aq kargad grZnoben Tavs da imitomac Camodian. sportuli RonisZiebebis sqema mniSvnelovnad gazrdilia. es lakmusis qaRaldiviTaa, saqarTvelos keTildReobas afiqsirebs.
– es yvelaferi asea, magram isic faqtia, rom saSineli inflaciaa, mkveTrad gaizarda fasebi yvelanair produqciaze. . .
– samwuxarod, es Cvenze aRaraa damokidebuli. kargad iciT, ra xdeba dolaris gaufasurebasTan dakavSirebiT mezobel qveynebSi da am fonze defolti rom ar mogvivida, isic didi miRwevaa. Tu gnebavT ganvixiloT irgvliv Seqmnili viTareba: ruseTi sanqciebis qveSaa da praqtikulad defoltis winaSea, TurqeTSi sul problemebia da yvelam icis, rogor daeca maTi lira dolarTan mimarTebaSi, igivea somxeTsa da azerbaijanSic. arada, es qveynebi Cveni wamyvani savaWro partniorebi arian, cxadia, Cvenzec moqmedebs maTi mdgomareoba. miT umetes, Tuki gavixsenebT Cvens geografiul mdebareobas, rac gansakuTrebiT saSiSs xdis qveynis mdgomareobas.
– opozicia ar Tvlis ase . . .
– iciT, ra, saarCevno sistemis Secvlis TariRis gadatana rom ara, darwmunebuli var, opozicia sxva rames gamoekideboda da mainc daiwyebda areulobas. xom xedavT, revoluciur scenars qmnis mudmiv reJimSi. Tuki marTlac qveynis keTildReoba surT, CaeZion sxvadasxva socialur proeqts, infrastruqturul cvlilebebs, dadon mecnieruli daskvna, mig-viTiTon Secdomaze, gaakeTon programa, romelic realurad gamoiyvans qveyanas Cixidan, mimarTon da daanaxon amomrCevlebs: Cven amas ase gavakeTebdiT… amis nacvlad, irkveven vin vis savarZelSi Cajda. an eklesiaze aseTi zewola rogor SeiZleboda, samarcxvino furceli Caiwera Cveni qveynis istoriaSi. principSi, opoziciis speqtri Wrelia. radikalebi xmauriani intrigebiT agrZeleben gzas. rac Seexeba sxvebs, piriqiT, ar uWeren maT mxars. miaCniaT, rom quCa ar aris is gza, romelic miiyvans Cvens qveyanas taZarTan. amis mware gamocdileba gvaqvs.
– rac Seexeba maJoritarebs, bevris gancxadebiT, isini saerTod arafers akeTeben xalxisTvis. . . mikrofonebTan misulic ar unaxavT.
– araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar veTanxmebi am azrs. Tavad var maJoritari da kargad vici, CemTan erTad Cemi kolegebi ra datvirTviT muSaoben. ra SuaSia mikrofoni da sityviT gamosvla, isini saqmes akeTeben da ara sakuTari saqmianobis reklamas. CvenTan Zalian bevri modis problemiT, satkivariT. umetesobas vexmarebiT, zogierTs – vera, magram gulTan axlos rom miitan mis naTqvams, isic SeRavaTia zogierT situaciaSi. Zalian mikvirs, rom mesmis, TiTqos politikaSi imitom midis adamiani, rom ver poulobs sakuTar Tavs Tavis profesiaSi. me profesiiT eqimi var da yvela regalia maqvs, rac ki SeiZleba hqondes medikoss am sferoSi. imitom gadavedi politikaSi, rom SevewinaaRmdego im Zveli, bneli Zalis dabrunebas, romelsac manamde xelT epyra saqarTvelos marTvis sadaveebi. mwams, rom eqimic SeiZleba iyos seriozuli politikosi da politikossac moeTxoveba akademiuroba, pasuxismgebloba, wesiereba. minda isev mikrofonebis Temas mivubrunde, romliTac xSirad apelireben Cveni oponentebi – parlamenti xom scena ar aris, es saqarTvelos pirveli tribunaa, romlis meSveobiTac gvardeba qveynisTvis sasicocxlo sakanonmdeblo sakiTxebi.
– maSin modiT, davakonkretoT, Tqven, rogorc xelvaCauris maJoritarma, ra gaakeTeT parlamentSi yofnisas amomrCevlebisTvis?
– ukve sami weliwadia, rac parlamentSi var da cota ram ar gamikeTebia, Tumca ufro metis miRweva msurda. rac Seexeba gakeTebuls, ki batono, CamogiTvliT yvelaze mTavars: mTeli `barcxana~ mTxovda, rom mtiralas miniWeboda rekreaciuli zonis statusi – Cven amas mivaRwieT. jer xmamaRla ar vlaparakobT, sanam gamarjvebuli proeqti ar gaxdeba cnobili. amas dasWirda ori weli. aseve, daviwyeT miwis sakiTxebze brZola. mivitaneT informacia partiis xelmZRvanelTan, Sedegad es sakiTxi gaxda prioritetuli. amis Sesaxeb Riad ganacxada kidec giorgi gaxariam, rom visac mflobelobaSi aqvs miwebi – unda gavuformoT. saakaSvilis periodSi, rodesac saerTod ganadgurda rigi uwyebebi, aRarc ki viciT vis, sad da ramdeni miwis nakveTi gaaCnia. axla, premieris brZanebis da axali organuli kanonis mixedviT, Seiqmneba axali struqturebi, saTanado sakadastro baza da sainformacio monacemebi. samwliani proeqtia, romelic am xnis ganmavlobaSi daaregistrirebs miwis yvela mesakuTres. ukve biujetSi Cadebulia kadastrirebis Tanxa. yvelafer amas emateba infrastruqturuli proeqtebi, bevri gadarCenili sicocxle, konfliqturi situaciebis mogvareba, romelsac xmamaRla ver ityvi da amitom arc vacxadeb. igive izolaciaSi myofi adamianebis socialuri adaptacia. . .
– amdeni keTdeba, Tumca kmayofilebas cota Tu gamoTqvams. . .
– Cven es ar gvikvirs, magram yvelafers xom Tavisi gamoxatvis gza gaaCnia. ras akeTeben – quCur garCevebs gviwyoben? is mixaria, rom aqciebze Tbilisis da saerTod, saqarTvelos inteligencia ar idga da am binZur speqtaklebSi ar monawileobda. radikalur opozicias surs gaCerdes qveyana, ar Camovides turisti da saxelmwifo kolafsSi Cavardes. rac ufro uares mdgomareobaSi iqneba saqarTvelo, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ destruqciuli partiisTvis ukeTesia, raTa am fonze isargeblos momentiT da movides xelisuflebaSi.
minda mivmarTo sazogadoebas, gamoiCinon goniereba, radgan Cven pasuxismgebelni varT ara mxolod sakuTari Tavis, aramed qveynis, Cveni Svilebis momavlis winaSe.
