,,რატომ არ სჯერათ, რომ დეპუტატს საკუთარი აზრის დაფიქსირების უფლებაც აქვს და ძალაუფლებაც?”
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 93
qveyanaSi mimdinare politikur procesebze, saarCevno sistemasTan dakavSirebul sakiTxebze politikosebi gvesaubrebian.
svetlana kudba, parlamentari:
– aris konstitucia, romelsac unda daemorCilos yvela. aranairi zewola aravisze ar yofila, yvelam miiRo monawileoba Tavisufal kenWisyraSi. piradad me proporciulis momxre var, magram am konkretul viTarebaSi ar gamovida am cvlilebis miReba. bevrma ar moindoma, radgan CaTvala, rom dResdReobiT ar aris Cveni politikuri speqtri mzad am cvlilebisTvis. kargad xedavT, ra situaciebs qmnian `nacionaluri moZraobis~ da misi warmonaqmnis e.w. evropelebis wevrebi da liderebi. maT SecdomaSi SehyavT sazogadoeba da cdiloben, nebismieri faqti mmarTveli gundis winaaRmdeg gamoiyenon. vin gvelaparakeba demokratiaze da vin qmnis areulobas, qaoss qveyanaSi, isini, visac ZalmomreobiT gahqondaT TavianTi nebismieri absurduli gadawyvetileba? samarcxvinoa, rom swored eseni migviTiTeben sityvis da mitingebis Tavisuflebaze.
– `nacionaluri moZraobis~ liderebis garda, opoziciis sxva, ufro loialurad ganwyobili pirebic `qarTuli ocnebis~ winaaRmdeg wavidnen. dameTanxmeT, proporciuli arCevnebis 2024-Si gadataniT mcirericxovanma opoziciurma partiebma dakarges parlamentSi moxvedris Sansi am arCevnebze da isev `nacionaluri moZraoba~ mova parlamentSi sxvebze meti xmiT.
– swored amis gamo ganacxada saparlamento umravlesobis liderma mamuka mdinaraZem, rom igive maJoritaruli sistema am etapze moemsaxureba sxva partiebs. misi TqmiT, im samaJoritaro olqebSi, sadac iqneba Rirseuli da reitinguli kandidati (cxadia, aq ar igulisxmeba `nacionaluri moZraobis~ an misi romelime frTis warmomadgeneli), `ocneba~ mas konkurent kandidats ar dauyenebs, rac, TavisTavad, bevr partias miscems parlamentSi Sesvlis saSualebas. igive ganacxada `qarTuli ocnebis~ generalurma mdivanma kaxi kalaZem. rogorc xedavT, `qarTul ocnebas~ mravalpartiuli parlamenti ar aSinebs, ubralod, cdilobs, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ ganeitralebas. merwmuneT, is, rom am etapze ar gadavida qveyana axal saarCevno sistemaze, ar aris imis mauwyebeli, rom Cven es ar gvinda. piriqiT, kanonSic ki CavwereT, rom sistemas davnergavT ramdenime wlis Semdeg, manamde ki SevqmniT qveyanaSi saTanado demokratiul atmosferos.
– Tqven Tavad acxadebT, rom demokratiis xarisxi qveyanaSi maRalia. . .
– ase rom ar iyos, dResdReobiT ar iqneboda aseTi agresiuli mitingebi da aqciebi, romliTac cdiloben xelisuflebis revoluciuri scenariT dablokvas. Cven demokratiuli qveyana varT da nebismiers aqvs sakuTari azris dafiqsirebis ufleba, oRond kanonieri kuTxiT. rogorc ki areuloba gadalaxavs dasaSveb normas, samarTaldamcavebi aRadgenen wesrigs. es aris maTi pirdapiri movaleoba.
– opozicia acxadebs, rom mitingebi gagrZeldeba mudmiv reJimSi da ar Sewydeba `daboqlomebis~ aqciebi. . .
– ras niSnavs es `daboqlomeba~? ras akeTeben, Sous awyoben? misi avtori yvelam viciT vinc aris. saakaSvils uyvars aseTi iaffasiani speqtaklebis dadgma, magram darwmunebuli var, qarTveli xalxi da sxva opoziciuri partiebi ar Secdebian da ar ahyvebian am uazro protestebs, romelic mizanmimarTulad gvabrunebs im Savbnel warsulSi, Zlivs rom davaRwieT Tavi. movuwodeb mosaxleobas, ar ayvnen am agresias, gaixsenon, vin iyvnen isini, axla rom samarTlian arCevnebs iTxoven.
– gamodis, samarTliani arCevnebi ar iqneba?
– ra Tqma unda, iqneba, arasodes gagviyalbebia da arc axla vikadrebT msgavss, piriqiT, xels SevuwyobT sxva partiebs, oRond maT Soris ar unda iyvnen `nacionaluri moZraobis~ warmomadgenlebi an maT kandidats ar unda hqondes im sxva partiis kandidatze gamarjvebis meti Sansi. es aris mTavari piroba.
am argumentebs ar eTanxmeba opoziciuri frTis warmomadgeneli, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ aqtiuri wevri giorgi kirTaZe:
– biZina ivaniSvilma gadawyvita, saerTod gaauqmos arCevnebi da xelisuflebaSi darCes, sanam ar mowyindeba, imis miuxedavad, unda Tu ara is qarTvel xalxs. bunebrivia, yvela gaerTianda `ocnebis~ winaaRmdeg, rogorc politikuri partiebi, ise samoqalaqo seqtori da aqcia `erTad erTis winaaRmdeg~ aqtiur fazaSia Sesuli. rac Seexeba e.w. daboqlomebas, sruliad simboluri, mSvidobiani aqciaa. arafris gamkeTebeli da moRalateobrivi xelisufleba unda `davaboqlomoT~, aba, ra unda vqnaT? ar unda mivceT saSualeba, Cvens qveyanas waarTvas momavali. swored amitom davaboqlomeT am dReebSi aWaris umaRlesi sabWo. yvelgan davaboqlomebT am xelisuflebis warmomadgenel uwyebebs sxvadasxva raionSi. araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar SevwyvetT. ra Tqma unda, finaluri aqcia gadainacvlebs dedaqalaqSi, sadac mTavroba da parlamentia.
– rogorc iTqva, `nacionalur moZraobas~ xels ar aZlevda proporciuli arCevnebi, Torem Tavad Secvlida saarCevno sistemas sakuTari mmarTvelobis dros. axla ra Seicvala?
– `nacionalur moZraobas~ ki ara, qarTvel xalxs sWirdeba samarTliani arCevnebi. germanuli modeli dainergeba, proporciuli Tu Sereuli, ara aqvs didi mniSvneloba, saubaria samarTlian arCevnebze. jer dahpirda xalxs da axla `gadaagdo~. gaeros tribunaze yviroda, proporciul sistemas davnergavo, ratom ver moaxerxa, SeeSinda? gamodis, arc apirebs arCevnebis Catarebas, sxva ra unda vifiqroT?
– mmarTveli gundi acxadebs, rom arCevnebi samarTlianad Catardeba. . .
– eseni prezidentis arCevnebsac samarTlianad Catarebulad miiCneven, magram xom yvelam davinaxeT, rac moxda? mosyidvisa da reketis fonze airCies prezidenti, amitom ar mivcemT saSualebas `qarTul ocnebas~, gaimeoros igive procesi, rodesac kriminali da xelisufleba erTad ebrZodnen oponentebs da sxvanairad moazrovne xalxs. sabolood biZina ivaniSvils mouwevs mSobliur qveyanaSi – ruseTSi dabruneba, xolo qarTveli xalxi Caatarebs samarTlian arCevnebs da yvela politikuri partia im raodenobis warmomadgenlobiT Seva saqarTvelos parlamentSi, ra raodenobis xmiTac eqneba mxardaWera mas. qveyanaSi aris mZime socialuri foni, umZimesi ekonomikur-politikuri krizisi da erTaderTi marTebuli gadawyvetilebaa vadamdeli arCevnebi.
– da Tqven darwmunebuli xarT, vadamdel arCevnebSi `qarTuli ocneba~ ver gaimarjvebs?
– Tavad biZina ivaniSvilic darwmunebulia amaSi. amitom daizRvia Tavi da gadado proporciuli arCevnebi 2024 wlisTvis. amitomac ibrZvis kbilebiT da yvelgan daayena Tavisi zonder-brigadebi mSvidobiani aqciebis CasaxSobad.
– Tqveni azriT, vin gava umravlesobaSi, proporciuli arCevnebi Tu dainiSna, `nacionaluri moZraoba~?
– es me ar miTqvams. Sedgeba koaliciuri mTavroba da upiratesobiT isargeblebs is Zala, romelsac xalxi miscems met xmas.
ilia verZaZe, aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputati `qarTuli ocnebidan~ Tvlis, rom `amJamindeli parlamentis piketireba da xmauriani aqciebi ar aris konkretulad am kanonproeqtis uaryofis mizezi. radikaluri opoziciis warmomadgenlebs igive reaqcia eqnebodaT nebismieri politikuri aqtis miRebaze. umravlesobis nebismier gadawyvetilebas isini katastrofad Seracxavdnen da analogiur qmedebebs ganaxorcielebdnen. ase, movlenidan movlenamde cdiloben xalxis SecdomaSi Seyvanas. maTTvis mTavaria, daarwmunon sazogadoeba im sicrueSi, romelic SemuSavebuli aqvT mesij-boqsebis saxiT TavianT ofisebSi~.
– proporciuli arCevnebis sistemis danergvas am etapze ki dahpirda mosaxleobas mTavroba, Tumca parlamentSi umravlesobis warmomadgenlebma ar dauWires mxari partiis fuZemdeblis dapirebas. cxadia, arsebuli partiuli disciplinis fonze, es faqti warmoudgenlad miiCnia yvelam.
– jer kidev 2012 wlidan davaanonseT, rom qveyanaSi iqneba evropuli donis demokratia xelovnuri speqtaklebis gareSe, rogorsac uxvad gvidgamda wina xelisufleba. maSin iTqva, rom politika iqneba cocxali procesi, rac dadasturda kidec saqmiT anu ramdenime aqtiT. kerZod: saparlamento komisiis SeqmniT, xalxis gamosvlasa da moTxovnaze adekvaturi reagirebiT, Tanamdebobis pirebis mier pasuxismgeblobis aRebiTa da pasuxisgebiT ara sityvierad, aramed Tanamdebobis datovebiT. amis miuxedavad, mainc daiwyes saubrebi diqtaturaze, Seqmnes raRac SeTqmulebis Teoriebi, saswaul Temebs igoneben, oRond maqsimaluri dezinformacia Seitanon mosaxleobaSi. . . am konteqstSi minda gagceT kiTxvaze pasuxi. mec megona, rom proporciuli arCevnebi dainiSneboda, magram aRmoCndnen Cvens rigebSi adamianebi, romlebic principulad ar eTanxmebian msgavsi wesiT arCevnebis Catarebas. sxvaTa Soris, es swored is adamianebi arian, romlebic 2017 wels aseve principulad ewinaaRmdegebodnen proporciul sistemas. maSin, Tu gaxsovT, opoziciam boikoti gamoacxada da ukve SeuZlebeli iyo xmebis dagroveba. anu igive moxda, rac axla. Tumca maSin moinaxa kompromisi da am xalxs uTxres, 2024-dan mainc dagvTanxmdiTo. pirvelad saqarTvelos istoriaSi, moqmedma xelisuflebam konstituciaSi daafiqsira arCevnebis proporciuli modeli.
– proporciulis winaaRmdeg ra argumentebi moiSvelies deputatebma, ratom ver daarwmunes isini am sistemis demokratiulobaSi partiis liderebma?
– im 40-mde maJoritari deputatis darwmuneba ar aRmoCnda ioli, gadawyvetilebis Secvla ar isurves. maTi gancxadebiT, axali saarCevno sistemiT regionebis interesebi ar iqneboda gaTvaliswinebuli, saerTodac ignorirebuli iqneboda. isic ganacxades, rom Tavadac motyuebulebi aRmoCndnen, radgan SeTanxmdnen, rom proporciuli sistema 2024 wels amoqmeddeboda. CemTvis es gasagebia. me SeTqmulebis Teoriebis ar mjera, mjera Cemi Tavmjdomaris, romelmac ganacxada, rom ver moxerxda am xalxis dayolieba. es aris cocxali, demokratiuli procesi, romelzec vocnebobdiT aTeuli wlis win. mikvirs, ratom ar sjeraT, rom deputats, visac mandati aqvs, sakuTari azris da damokidebulebis dafiqsirebis uflebac aqvs da Zalauflebac? aRar eSinia, rom winaaRmdegobis SemTxvevaSi mas da mis axloblebs rame daemuqreba. rogorc CerCilma Tqva, am pirobebSi demokratia rTulia, magram ukeTesi veraferi mogvifiqrebia. es faqti ase unda miviRoT da proporciuli sistemis gadmoweva ramdenime wliT ar unda gavaTanabroT 9 aprilTan, 7 noemberTan, im sisastikesa da mkvlelobebTan, rac maSin xdeboda rogorc cixeebSi, ise quCebsa da ojaxebSi RamRamobiT mimdinare dapatimrebebis dros. demokratiisken mogviwodebs iseTi xalxi, romlebic pirdapir emuqrebodnen Jurnalistebs, politikosebs, sazogadoebis warmomadgenlebs da Tavisufal sityvas, azrs usastikesi meTodebiT axSobdnen.
– opoziciis warmomadgenlebi acxadeben, rom ivaniSvili arCevnebis Catarebas saerTod aRar apirebs. . .
– warmoidgineT, ramxela sibecea, es aris Cveulebrivi demarSi da amomrCevlis dezinformireba. Cven mier Catarebuli arCevnebi pozitiuradaa Sefasebuli saerTaSoriso damkvirveblebis mier. axlac arCevnebi maRali standartebiT Catardeba am qveyanaSi da yvelas eqneba saSualeba, Tavisi realuri reitingi ixilos Semajamebel oqmSi. es aris Cveni xelisuflebis mtkice pozicia da asec iqneba.
– `nacionaluri moZraobis~ da `evropuli saqarTvelos~ garda, opoziciis sxva warmomadgenlebic aprotesteben proporciuli arCevnebis gadatanas.
– yvelam kargad dagvanaxa Tavisi saxe – Tanamdebobis gulisTvis qveyanaSi destruqciul Zalas dauWiro mxari da xalxi gawiro, warmoudgenelia. ramdenime TveSi arCevnebia da midian yvelaferze, rom CamoSalon saxelmwifo institutebi. ris da vis gamo? vinc angrevda? xiluli cvlilebebia, Tundac baTumSi: ager stadioni, respublikuri saavadmyofo, sportis sasaxleebi, auzebi da a.S. azri xom unda hqondes am protests da winaaRmdegobas?
– Tqveni komentari – aWaris umaRlesi sabWos `daboqlomebaze~.
– es aris Zalian uniWo performansi. aRar SerCaT resursi da igoneben martiv speqtaklebs. daaboqlomon sakuTari ofisebi da wavidnen saxlebSi, radgan normaluri kritikis safuZveli ar gaaCniaT.
