ძველის შეფასება და ახლის პერსპექტივები
ნინო ცხვარაძე 591 98 24 30
– 2019 weli umaRlesi sabWosaTvis sakmaod aqtiuri iyo. amis Tqmis saSualebas maZlevs im dawyebuli reformebis dasruleba – umaRlesi sabWos gaZlierebis kuTxiT, rac daiwyo konstituciuri kanoniT, Semdgom aWaris konstituciiT da Sesabamisad, umaRlesi sabWos reglamentis miRebiT, – ase daiwyo CvenTan saubari regionis sakanonmdeblo organos Tavmjdomare daviT gabaiZem, romelmac `aWarasTan~ ganvlili weli Seajama. misive TqmiT, erTi etapi dasrulda, Tumca konstituciuri cvlilebebi unda aisaxos mimdinare kanonmdeblobaSi, rac daiwyo kidec.
– batono daviT, ambobT, rom erTi etapi dasrulebulia. ra iqneba Semdgomi nabijebi?
– axlaxan Cven meore mosmeniT miviReT aWaris avtonomiuri respublikis simbolikis gamoyenebis wesis Sesaxeb kanoni, Tumca bevri dargobrivi kanonia misaRebi, razec 2020 wels unda vimuSaoT. 2019 mniSvnelovani iyo imiTac, rom vimuSaveT instituciur gaZlierebaze ara mxolod konstituciisa da reglamentis normebis gaZlierebiT, aramed materialur-teqnikuri bazis kuTxiTac – umaRlesi sabWo baTumSi dabrunda. Tavis droze sakanonmdeblo organos CaqvSi gadatana Secdoma iyo, rasac sxvaTa Soris, amis Semoqmedebic adastureben rogorc pirad saubrebSi, aseve Riad.
– qalaqSi dabrunebis mTavari motivi ra iyo?
– ufro meti komunikacia amomrCevelsa da umaRles sabWos Soris. umaRlesi sabWo konstituciurad nomer pirveli politikuri organoa, Cemi gadasaxedidan. amasTan, is avtonomiuri respublikis doneze erTaderTi pirdapiri wesiT arCeuli organoa, ase vafaseb rogorc iuristi da, bunebrivia, Tundac yvela is politikuri vnebaTaRelva da sakiTxi, rac mimdinareobs regionSi, upirvelesad, unda wydebodes sakanonmdeblo organoSi. aqedan gamomdinare, vfiqrob, qalaqSi dabrunebiT yvelasTvis martivi iqneba komunikacia.
– anu mzad xarT komfortisTvisac da diskomfortisTvisac?
– qalaqSi gadmosvlas komforts ver davarqmev. CaqvSi ufro komfortuli iyo wynar garemoSi, mosaxleobisgan Tvals mofarebuli muSaoba, magram mirCevnia da politikosebic dameTanxmebian, Cven movlenebis epicentrSi viyoT. ufro iqneba diskomforti, magram amisTvis mzad varT. gamsaxurdias quCazec vimuSave, mTavrobis aparatSi 4 weli da mosaxleobas axsovs, albaT, iyvnen es gonioelebi, hesebis mSeneblobis mowinaaRmdegeebi, walkidan Camosuli mosaxleoba, ipoTekarebi Tu sxva, gavdiodi maTTan, mqonda urTierToba. xazgasmiT minda aRvniSno, baTumSi gadmosvla ar gadawyvetila am mowvevis umaRlesi sabWosTvis, radgan ramdenime TveSi am mowvevis sakanonmdeblo organos vada ewureba da piradad me amxela pasuxismgeblobis aReba arc miRirda. yvela axal Sesyidvaze vrceldeba niusi – umaRlesma sabWom SeiZina, aremontebs da a. S. wesiT, ar unda iyos aseTi reaqcia, amas vakeTeb ara CemTvis, radgan vadis amowurvamde, SesaZloa, bolomde dalagebac ver movaswro axal SenobaSi, magram mniSvnelovani iyo umaRlesi sabWosTvis, rogorc instituciisTvis da mniSvnelovania regionisa da misi mosaxleobisTvis – rogorc aRvniSne, umaRlesi sabWo erTaderTi organoa aWaris avtonomiur respublikaSi, romelic pirdapiri wesiT irCeva mosaxleobis mier da, Sesabamisad, mniSvnelovania, sad iqneba pirdapiri wesiT arCeuli organo, romelmac yvelaze metad unda gamoxatos mosaxleobis interesebi.
– saqarTvelos parlamentSi wardgenil iniciativebze gviTxariT . . .
– wels gvqonda ramdenime iniciativa, maT Soris ganaTlebis kanonSi, Sromis kodeqsSi, mewarmeTa Sesaxeb kanonSi cvlilebebi. gaisad gveqneba Zalian bevri iniciativa. saqarTvelos parlamenti axla gadis konstituciasTan sakanonmdeblo aqtebis harmonizaciis process da Cvenc nel-nela unda davewioT, radgan avtonomiuri respublika an gamorCenilia, an ar aris im formiT moxseniebuli, rasac iTxovs konstituciuri kanoni. 4 iniciativa ukve maqvs moniSnuli, romlebsac 2020 wels davaregistrireb.
– qveyanaSi mimdinare politikuri procesebis Sefaseba minda gTxovoT, gavrilovis RamiT daviwyoT . . .
– vfiqrob, im konkretul SemTxvevaSi xelisuflebam raRac tipis pasuxismgebloba aiRo, gadadga parlamentis Tavmjdomare. saparlamento respublikaSi parlamentis Tavmjdomare ar aris rigiTi Tanamdebobis piri da amdenad, vfiqrob, amiT unda dasrulebuliyo procesebi. ise, irakli kobaxiZe ar iyo didad im TemasTan bmaSi, arc imyofeboda saqarTveloSi, es Cemi Sefasebaa da aqamdec ar unda misuliyo saqme, magram mTavari mainc sakonstitucio cvlilebebis Cavardna iyo.
– dauSva Tu ara da sad Secdoma xelisuflebam konkretul TemasTan mimarTebaSi?
– Secdomas ver vityodi, xelisufleba, Cemi azriT, Seecada proporciul saarCevno sistemaze gadasvlas, risTvisac, aseve Cemi azriT, mzad ar varT. aWaris SemTxvevaSi, minda giTxraT, ara raRac gansakuTrebuli principuli Sexedulebebis gamo, aramed imis gamo, rom moulodnelad im kavSiris gawyveta, amomrCevelsa da maJoritar deputatebs Soris rom arsebobs, xelis erTi mosmiT ugulebelyofa, SesaZloa, sworic ar iyo. samwuxaro ufro isaa, rom ver moipova sakonstitucio cvlilebebma xmebis sakmarisi raodenoba, magram amiT qveynis cxovreba ar unda dasruldes, grZeldeba molaparakebebi. opozicia unda moemzados arCevnebisTvis. Tu xelisufleba miuRebelia mosaxleobisTvis, aseT xelisuflebas amomrCeveli Secvlis arsebuli saarCevno sistemiT da ase moxda 2012 wels. isic unda gaviTvaliswinoT, rom 2020 wels amomrCevels Tavisufal garemoSi mouwevs arCevanis gakeTeba, vidre iyo 2012 wels. uSualo monawile var im procesis da vici, rasTan iyo dakavSirebuli xmebis daTvla Tu sxva sakiTxebi.
– TqvenTvis, rogorc sakanonmdeblo organos TavmjdomarisTvis, romeli saarCevno modelia misaRebi?
– vici, rom arsebuli saarCevno modeli absoluturad misaRebia regionisaTvis. umaRlesi sabWo regionis warmomadgenlobiTi organoa, regionis, romlis didi nawili ukavia maRalmTianeTs da zustad vici, rogoria mosaxleobisa da maJoritarebis urTierToba. aqedan gamomdinare, aWarisTvis namdvilad ar iyo panacea proporciuli saarCevno sistema, magram Tu gadavidodiT an gadavalT (procesi jer ar dasrulebula, radgan kenWisyraze ar gagvitania sakiTxi), amaSic tragikuli araferia. maJoritarebis arseboba umaRles sabWoSi ZalTa Tanafardobaze gavlenas ar axdens. aWaris SemTxvevaSi Sereuli sistema winaaRmdegobebs ar qmnis da arc proporciuli Seqmnis.
– saqarTvelos parlamentis paralelurad, aWaris umaRlesma sabWomac moamzada sakonstitucio cvlilebis kanonproeqti, finansurTan erTad adamianuri resursi daixarja, Tumca opozicia irwmuneba, rom kanonproeqti Taroze darCeba da dRis Suqs ver ixilavs.
– vinmem Tu iwvala, iSroma da imuSava, mosaxlobaSi gavida, moxseneba gaakeTa, process organizeba gaukeTa, maT Soris albaT erTi mec viyavi, mokrZalebulad rom vTqvaT. aqedan gamomdinare, am yvelafris SeCereba Tu vinmes enaneba – me var, magram kanonproeqtis SeCerebiT araferi mTavrdeba, piriqiT, SesaZlebloba gveZleva, Tu miRweuli iqneba SeTanxmeba saqarTvelos parlamentSi, Cvenc gadavideT proporciul sistemaze. bevri mimarTulebiT vitovebT movlenebis gagrZelebis saSualebas. parlamentis da umaRlesi sabWos arCevnebi emTxveva erTmaneTs da Tavis droze, winaaRmdegobis miuxedavad, daveTanxme. sakonstitucio cvlilebebis dawyeba saqarTvelos parlamentis daanonsebul proporciul sistemaze gadasvlas ukavSirdeboda. umaRlesi sabWos arCenebs rom ar Seqmnoda teqnikuri Tu samarTlebrivi problemebi, amis gamo xelic movawere iniciativas, aseve, lomis wilic Sevitane kanonproeqtis momzadebaSi, dRes ki aCqarebiT SesaZlebelia Secdoma ufro davuSvaT, vidre rame movigoT. opoziciisTvis martivi saTqmelia, procesebze araa pasuxismgebeli da SesaZloa, xval-zeg gviTxran, ras gvismendiT, myarad damdgariyaviT Tqvens poziciazeo, ise, rogorc meubnebian mauwyeblis bordis arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT. videomasala arsebobs 2017 wlis 17 ianvris, sadac vambob, rom kanonSi xarvezebia, araferi Savdeba, mexuTe wevri Tu ar Seva bordSi da kanoni SevcvaloT-meTqi, magram maSin yvela winaaRmdegi wavida, maT Soris mauwyeblis direqtoric ki – werili werilze Semodioda, mexuTe wevri SemoiyvaneTo. vambobdi, rac unda sworad gaviaroT procesi, diskreditirebuli iqneba, radgan rodesac xarveziani kanoniT akeTeb raRacas, iq kiTxvis niSnebi rCeba da samarTlianadac. maSin daveTanxme, rom ar eTqvaT, TiTqos sakuTar azrs vTvlidi prioritetulad, magram axla, roca garemoebebi Seicvala, arCeulia bordi da xarvezebze daviwyeT saubari, aravin Tqva, rom umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomare amaze Tavis droze saubrobda. dRes meubnebian, Sen iyavi xelisuflebaSi da ratom usmendi sxvaso. SesaZloa, radikaluri moveCveno viRacebs sakonstitucio cvlilebebis Seyovnebis gamo, magram, piriqiT, Cemi pozicia liberaluria, radgan yvela versias aZlevs ganviTarebis saSualebas. mizanic da movaleobac esaa. 2020 wels arCevnebi rom Catardeba, samarTliani iqneba Tu usamarTlo, xarveziani Tu uxarvezo, am xelisuflebis nawili var da momavalSic ase iqneba, romc ar viyo warmodgenili umaRles sabWoSi Tu sxvagan, ar aqvs mniSvneloba, rasac vakeTeb, imaze pasuxismgebeli var. Cemi wili pasuxismgebloba, 4-wlian monakveTSi rac maqvs aRebuli, momavalSi ar maTavisuflebs pasuxismgeblobisgan. darwmunebuli var, Seqmnili mdgomareobidan gamovalT da ar SevalT CixSi. sakonstitucio cvlilebebis kanonproeqtis kenWisyras win araferi udgas, Tumca darwmunebuli var, xval da zeg ityvian, rom swori gadawyvetileba iyo kanonproeqtis kenWisyraze droebiT argatana.
– Tavad axseneT televizia da aqve gkiTxavT: bolo periodSi sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis aWaris televizia da radio gansakuTrebul interess iwvevs sazogadoebaSi. araerTxel gaJRerda isic, rom xelisuflebas mauwyeblis saredaqcio damoukideblobaSi Carevis survili da mcdeloba aqvs. ramdenad safuZvliania es mosazreba?
– usafuZvlo, fuWi SiSebia. me var am xelisuflebis warmomadgeneli da procesis, minda Tu ara, monawilec. zustad vici, rom mauwyeblis arc erT direqtorTan damirekavs da araferSi Cavrevivar. roca azrs mekiTxebian, mokrZalebulad gamovTqvam. bunebrivia, raRacebi momwons an ar momwons da amis ufleba maqvs.
– rogor fiqrobT, unda hqondes Tu ara umaRlesi sabWos deputats imuniteti, iseve rogorc saqarTvelos parlamentis wevrs?
– Tu gvinda, rom umaRlesi sabWos wevrs hqondes myari pozicia, ar moeridos simarTlis Tqmas, bunebrivia, imuniteti saWiroa. Tavis droze, pirvel variantSi, roca konstituciis proeqtze vmuSaobdi, gaTvaliswinebuli mqonda imuniteti. informacia rom gavrcelda, uaryofiTi reaqcia wamovida opoziciisgan – gabaiZe Tavis komfortze fiqrobs, imunitetebi moundaTo. amitom proeqtidan Canaweri amoviReT. mere ki, roca saqme saqmeze midga da moxda ise, rom daakaves umaRlesi sabWos wevri, iTxovdnen poziciis dafiqsirebas. ra unda davafiqsiro? saqmismwarmoebeli organo ar varT, arc dokumentebi gvaqvs, daarRvia Tu ara kanoni deputatma. Tumca Tu imunitetis moxsnaze Semovidoda sakiTxi, vnaxavdiT faqtobriv masalasac da gamovxatavdiT kidec Cvens pozicias. amitom, roca racionalurs da gonivruls gTavazoben, Cvens oponentebs marTebT dafiqreba – egeb rame WeSmaritebis marcvlia amaSi.
– mesame Zalaze ras fiqrobT? vis moiazrebT?
– dResdReobiT qarTul politikur sivrceSi gamokveTil mesame Zalas ver vxedav, Tumca, ramdenimes aqvs amis Sansi. maT distancireba marTebT `nacionaluri moZraobisgan~, radgan vinc ki gaekareba am partias, identobas kargavs da amomrCeveli masSi mesame Zalas ki ara, isev `nacionalur moZraobas~ xedavs. ise isrutavs da ganviTarebisa da gaZlierebis saSualebas ukargavs mis gverdiT mdgom politikur Zalebs, rogorc Tavis droze anadgurebda da fexqveS Telavda sicocxlis uflebas, sakuTrebis uflebas da ase Semdeg.
– batono daviT, ra politikuri molodini gaqvT momavali wlisgan?
– optimisti var, politikuri TvalsazrisiT gansakuTreuli araferi gvelodeba momavali wlisTvis. male gadavalT saarCevno reJimze da yvela Seecdeba sakuTar simarTleSi mosaxleobis darwmunebas, gadawyvetilebas ki misi udidebulesoba – qarTveli xalxi miiRebs. visargebleb SemTxveviT da damdeg Soba-axal wels mivulocav sruliad saqarTvelos, gansakurebiT – aWaris avtonomiuri respublikis mosaxleobas, vusurveb janmrTelobas, bednierebas da warmatebebs! Cvens moqalaqeebs, darwmunebuli var, aqvT kargi momavlis imedi da mec, Cemi mxriv, am kargi momavlis SeqmnaSi sakuTar wvlils Sevitan.
