,,ვგრძნობ, ჩემი თარგმანებით კარგს ვაკეთებ ფრანგული ლიტერატურისთვისაც და ქართულისთვისაც”
მარინა მითაიშვილი: 593 31 73 90 –
ara mgonia, baTumSi vinme darCeniliyos, vinc badri TevzaZis parizuli voiaJis Sesaxeb araferi icodes. poeziaSi ukve damkvidrebulma Semoqmedma safrangeTis dedaqalaqSi Tavisi cxovrebis yvelaze mZlavr, siaxleebiT savse talRas SeuSvira Subli, radgan or aTeul welze meti xnis winaT pirvelad moxvda samyaroSi, romelic Tavis jado-xiblTan erTad misTvis friad idumali, gaurkvevelic iyo da aravin icoda, sad waiRebda Tavisufali dineba, romelsac ase guldandobiT mihyveboda baTumeli poeti da mTargmneli. cxadia, didi sirTuleebi gadalaxa da 15 TveSi parizuli okeanidan, gaZlierebulma, saocnebo qveyanasTan moSinaurebulma, mdidar enasTan gvarianad Seamxanagebulma da franguli poeziis axali TargmanebiT xurjindamSvenebulma gamocura mSobliuri napirisken. mas Semdeg poetma da mTargmnelma araerTi sakuTari leqsebisa Tu Targmanebis krebuli aCuqa mkiTxvels. `aWaras~ arc erTi maTganis gamosvla ar dautovebia uyuradRebod, radgan am xalasi niWis mqone xelovanis daunaxaoba SeuZlebelia. amjeradac, sixaruliT vxvdebiT misi Targmanebis axal krebuls `franguli poeziis sami mSvenieri epoqa~, romelic dRe-dReze ixilavs mzis sinaTles. man badri TevzaZesTan Sexvedris, saintereso saubris da mis Semoqmedebaze, pirovnebaze metis gagebis kidev erTi mizezic mogvca.
– rogorc vici, Targmnis Wia Tavidanve SemogiCnda, arada, amboben, Targmnas maSin iwyeben, roca Tavisas ver wereno.
– mTlad ase borotad nu vityviT. Sarl bodlerma Targmna edgar pos poezia da Tavisi Sesavalic rom daamata, faqtobrivad, edgar po ufro cnobili gaxda evropaSi, vidre avtori, rogorc poeti – amerikaSi. arada, im dros bodleri ukve SesaniSnav poetad iyo Camoyalibebuli, Tumca jer `borotebis yvavilebi~ ar hqonda gamocemuli. axalgazrdobaSi, samxedro-savaldebulo samsaxurSi yofnisas, evtuSenkos leqsi vTargmne, romelic man saqarTvelos miuZRvna da amiT miipyro Cemi yuradReba, blokis da tiutCevis leqsebic. . . magram amas iSviaTad vakeTebdi, weliwadSi erT-orjer, sacdelad. lazuri poeziis Targmna me da vaxo Rlontma imitom daviwyeT, rom saRamos vamzadebdiT da iq unda wagvekiTxa. vaxom helimiSis leqsebi Targmna, me – mamia Tandilavasi. Semdeg karga xans aRar miTargmnia, 40 wlisam franguli enis gaxsenebisTvis daviwye, radgan safrangeTSi wasvla gadavwyvite. 1983 wels vaxos Zmam – omzirma (mogvianebiT – arqimandritma nikolozma) moskovSi gamocemuli franguli poeziis anTologia (XIX-XX ss) maCuqa. rezo TvaraZis galaktionis wakiTxvis Semdeg ukve mindoda frangi simbolistebis Targmna, magram es araseriozuli survili iyo, radgan Sedegi ar mohyolia. ramdenime weliwadSi erTxel gamaxsendeboda xolme, rom, ai, im wignSi frangi simbolistebi Zalian farTod iyvnen warmodgenili da franguls kargad rom viswavlidi, vTargmnidi. . . ase gavida 10 weli. . . da ai, safrangeTSi wasvlamde skolis wignebiT enis gaxsenebisTvis mecadineoba daviwye. savarjiSoebis teqstebis Ziebisas gamiCnda azri, rom naCuqari wignidan leqsebi meTargmna da es frangulis ukeT SeswavlaSi damexmareboda. . . faqtobrivad, pirdapir bwkaredebis keTeba daviwye. maSindeli Targmanebis 90 procents ara uSavs.
– Segvaxsene krebulebi, romlebic ukve gamoeci da gagvacani isic, romelsac sul male miiRebs mkiTxveli.
– `me-19 saukunis franguli poeziis mcire anTologia~ (1998 w.), `asi franguli leqsi~ (2000 w.), ` franguli poeziis aTaswleuli~ (2013 w.), `pol verleni da sxva frangi simbolistebi~ (2014 w.). anTologiis gamocemisas valdebuli xar, yvela avtors Tanabrad dauTmo yuradReba, am bolo wignSi – `pol verleni da sxva frangi simbolistebi~ ki Cemi subieqturi damokidebuleba Cans. krebulis Sedgenisas survilisamebr gadavwyvite, romeli poetis ramden leqss Sevitandi masSi. aq saTaurSive Cans subieqturoba – piradi simpaTiis, siyvarulis gamoZaxili. axal wigns hqvia `franguli poeziis sami mSvenieri epoqa~. masSi epoqebi sam ganyofilebadaa dayofili. pirvelSia `ronsaris diadi saukune~ (XVI saukune.) am qvesaTaurSic Cans, rom ZiriTadi yuradReba ronsars eTmoba. Targmanebs Soris samocdaaT procentamde ronsaris leqsia da danarCenebic, Sexedulebisamebr, maqvs gadanawilebuli. meore ganyofilebaa `Jerar de nervali da sxva frangi romantikosebi~ (XIX saukunis dasawyisi). aqac leqsebis umravlesoba Cemi rCeulis, am SemTxvevaSi, nervalisaa, mis garda Zalian kargi aTi avtoris nawarmoebebia Sesuli, romlebic, aseve, Cemi ganwyobis mixedviTaa SerCeuli. mesameSic – `Sarl lekont de lili da sxva parnaseli poetebi~ saTauris Sesabamisad eTmoba yuradReba Cems rCeul poets.
– nervali am sam poets Sorisac gansakuTrebiT giyvars. ratom?
– JorJ pompidus, romelic, mTeli msoflios Tu ara, safrangeTis da evropis prezidentebs Soris mainc liderobda poeziis siyvaruliT, sanam gaprezidentdeboda, manam hqonda Sedgenili da gamocemuli franguli poeziis anTologia. iseTi kargi leqsebi aqvs Tavmoyrili, dausaxlebel kunZulze rom gamamweson, am wigns waviRebdi. mas aseTi fraza aqvs nervalze: `yvelaze romantikosi – romantikosTa Soris~. marTlac, rasac romantizmi hqvia, yvelaze ukeT nervalis poeziaSia gamoxatuli. misi poezia idumalebiTaa savse. . . biografiac saintereso hqonda – samxedro eqimis ojaxSi dabadebuli, dedam CvilobaSive miatova, radgan mamas gahyva napoleonis laSqrobaSi, romlis drosac avad gaxda da gardaicvala. nervalma ver apatia mamas, rom man deda waarTva. mogvianebiT sayvareli qalic dakarga. . . mis poeziaSi mZafri gancdebi boboqrobs. es Sinagani tragedia, Zveli finikielebis qalRmerTi kibele, RvTismSobeli da ramdenime xateba kidev trialebs mis poeziaSi. sakmaod rTulia da Zalian sayvarelia CemTvis. . .
– ai, ase gamogvitydi, rom romantikosi xar, radgan nervali swored romantikosobis gamo mogwons?
– rogor SeiZleba, romantikosi iyos Cemi asakis kaci?!
– da rogor SeiZleba, romantikosi ar iyos poeti?
– asec SeiZleba vTqvaT. . . didi gansxvaveba araa romantikosebsa da parnasel poetebs Soris. vTqvaT, nervalsac SeiZleba vuwodoT parnaseli da lekont de lils – romantikosi, radgan isini ar etevian literaturaTmcodneebis CarCoebSi.
– kidev kargi, Torem Zalian moviwyendiT poeziaSi.
– TavisTavad. zogierTi romantikosad imitom darCa, rom adre gardaicvala, Torem sxva mimarTulebiT wavidoda. adamiani viTardeba. galaktionma ramdeni saxecvlileba, ramdeni dacema da aRdgena ganicada.Semoqmedis CarCoebSi Casma ar SeiZleba.
– sakuTar poeziaze ras ityvi, ra etapzea badri rogorc poeti?
– micvalebulze an kargs amboben, an arafers. . . magram imedi maqvs, rom gavcocxldebi. yvela poets sxvadasxva ram sWirdeba amisTvis. CemTvis mTavaria – gmirulad SevZlo sakuTar sulSi mogzauroba da ar SemeSindes. . . SiSic aRar hqvia amas, ubralod, mieCvie SoriT kvdomas, magram imedi maqvs, erTxelac Semomaxtunebs RamiT raRac da damawerinebs. . .
– da manamde Targmani TavSesafaria? poeziaSi xar mainc. . .
– Targmna rom daviwye, maSinac poeziaSi viyavi da mere rogor. . . . ubralod, SeveCvie da momwons. SeiZleba, rogorc poets, bevri dro wamarTva, magram ar vTvli mas dakargulad, radgan silamazis is gancda, romelsac, vTqvaT, lekont de lilis, bodleris Targmnisas ganvicdi, Seudarebelia. rembos `mTvrali xomaldis~ Targmani rom davasrule, gadavikiTxe da araferi momxvda cudad yurSi, raRac sxvanairi energia vigrZeni, bednieri viyavi ise, rogorc yvelaze kargi leqsis daweris dros.
– gavige, rom kidev erT wignze muSaob.
– es iqneba `me-20 saukunis franguli poezia~. Zalian saintereso, gansxvavebul avtorebs movuyri Tavs: Jan moreasi, Sarl pegi, sen-pol ru, apolineri, maqs Jakobi, fransis Jami, pol klodeli, pol fori, blez sandrari, sen Jon persi, pol eluari, Jak preveri da sxvebi. 30-ze meti poetia. didi samuSaoa. . . blez sandraris poemas `transcimbiruli matareblisa da patara frangi Janas ambavi~ antileqsi SeiZleba uwodo. arian avtorebi, romlebic xasiaTiT, cxovrebis wesiT CemSi pativiscemas da siyvaruls iwveven. sandrare axalgazrdobaSi imas akeTebda, razec vocnebobdi da ver vakeTebdi. SveicariaSi dabadebuli es 16 wlis biWi samyaros sanaxavad viRac vaWars ruseTSi gahyva, gadalaxa cimbiri, gadavida CineTSi, amerikaSi, im velur dasavleTSic moaswro reviuSi gajiriTeba, ibrZoda omSi, romelic samarTlianad miaCnda. daiWra kidec. . . igi werda, rom Tavad sicocxle aris bedniereba da surda, SinaarsiT daetvirTa igi. sxvaTa Soris, keTilSobil kacad darCa. . . Jan-pol kleberi – aseTi mawanwala cxovrobda parizSi. esec karg ojaxSi gazrdili biWi iyo. germaniam rom safrangeTis okupacia scada, winaaRmdegobis moZraobaSi wavida. mas Semdeg ojaxSi ar dabrunebula. mTeli 6 weli gaatara parizis quCebis qvafenilebze mawanwalebTan erTad. . . xedav, albaT, Cems siaxloves masTan (icinis). man quCaSi Tavisi cxovreba aRwera, miitana romeliRac JurnalSi. redaqciaSi im dros Tavis saqmeze Semoiara sandrarma, waikiTxa kleberis naweri da ise moewona, rom ara marto JurnalSi, wignad gamoqveynebasac miaRwia da amiT, faqtobrivad, axali cxovrebis dawyebisTvis misca biZgi quCaSi mcxovreb adamians. guli mwydeba, rom Tavidan araferi vicodi masze, arada, pol verlenis krebuls, romelic parizidan Camomyva, `viRac~ kleberis wina da bolosityvaoba erTvoda. werda verlenze, rogorc parizel mawanwalaze. . . maSin mxolod is vifiqre, 50-ian wlebSi kacs wignis redaqtorobas rom mogandoben, ese igi Zalian saxelmoxveWili, asakovani xar. momewona misi winasityvaobac da morCa. . . magram kompiuters rom davuZmobildi, gavecani am mwerlis marTlac saocar biografias. isic xSirad icvlida sacxovrebel adgils, mogzaurobda, aTas faTerakSi exveoda. 2008 wels cocxali iyo da samxreT safrangeTSi, liberonSi cxovrobda, romelsac Zalian axlos Cavuare, roca safrangeTSi viyavi. ar vicodi, Torem aucileblad movinaxulebdi, gavicnobdi. . . arada, parizis quCebSi rom davwanwalebdi, wigni misi winasityvaobiT zurgCanTaSi medo. sxvaTa Soris, statia davwere – `sami mawanwala~. . .
– verleni, kleberi da badri TevzaZe?
– asea. kleberis verlenze dawerili uzarmazari, Zalian saintereso sityvidan aTiode gverdi vTargmne. aq sakuTar Tavzec saubrobs, amitom saWiro gaxda, maszec damewera. . . mesame mawanwala vinc iyo, TavSive mixvdi.
– sxva mawanwalebic maxsendeba mwerlebidan, saerTod, xelovanebidan. isini Tavisuflebas mowyurebuli adamianebi arian. Senzec igive SeiZleba vTqvaT? miuxedavad imisa, rom cnobilia (wignidan `parizSi wasvlas ra unda?!~), ratomac gaemgzavre, es mogzauroba mainc rutinidan gaqceva araa? Tu gavixsenebT erovnuli moZraobis droindel Sens mgznebare protests maSindeli xelisuflebisadmi, Tavisuflebisken yovelTvis miiswrafodi. . .
– mxolod pragmatuli mizezebis gamo marTlac ver gavbedavdi parizSi wasvlas da verc imgvar cxovrebas, romelic iq momixda. iyo raRac, rac, SesaZloa, Jiul vernis `kapitani grantis Svilebidan~ iwyeba. Tavgadasavali yovelTvis mizidavda da mainc, ufro xSirad, Sinayuda meocnebed vrCebodi, aTasi movaleobiT, valebiT, safiqraliT da, ai, uceb, erT dResac aiwyvet da, rogorc konstantine gamsaxurdia ityoda, `agorda TviTmoZravi Wuri~. . .
– sxvadasxva klasifikaciis bevri etapi gqonia, magram mainc mgonia, rom ZiriTadi oria – safrangeTamde da Semdeg. . .
– SeiZleba asec davyoT. yovel SemTxvevaSi, safrangeTi, miuxedavad imisa, rom sami aTasi kilometriTaa daSorebuli saqarTvelodan, CemTvis gacilebiT didia dRes, vidre iq yofnisas iyo. . . vgrZnob, rom kargs vakeTeb Cemi TargmanebiT franguli literaturisTvisac da qarTulisTvisac, radgan momavalSi vinme raimes – misTvis sainteresos amokrefs maTgan ise, rogorc rezo TvaraZis wignma galaktionze damanaxa frangi simbolistebi da mimiyvana maTi Targmnis survilTan. Tanac safrangeTSi myavs megobrebi, romlebmac bevri gaakeTes CemTvis. is SegrZneba, rom megobrebi myavs, mxolod or qalaqSi maqvs – baTumsa da parizSi.
– albaT Zneli iqneba, magram oriod sityviT damixasiaTe franguli poezia, ra gamoarCevs mas msoflio poeziis okeaneSi?
– is, rom Caketili ar aris. sxva qveynebis poeziebis bums biZgs franguli poezia aZlevda. JorJ pompidus ar iyos, franguli poezia iseTia, rogoric aris, amiT gamoirCeva anu sakuTari saxe aqvs, ise rogorc bevri sxva qveynis poezias. ubralod aq Zalian bevri TavisTavadi niWis mqone avtoria Tavmoyrili. sul sxvadasxvagvarad viTardeba sxvadasxva epoqaSi. Cven, qarTvelebma, madloba unda vuTxraT frangul poezias, radgan saqarTveloSi axali, simbolistebis, talRa aagora.
badri gadamdebad Txrobis ostatia – sakuTar cxovrebaze saubris drosac ki saswaulad mdidar frangul kulturas, Tu jerac ar icnob, gayvarebs, Tu raRac wagikiTxavs, CaRrmavebis survils giCens. swored amitomaa ase saintereso misi wigni “parizSi wasvlas ra unda?”, sadac aRwers, rogor iswavla Tavidan cxovreba, axalfexadgmuli bavSviviT, ucxo samyaroSi da erTxel kidev dagvanaxa, rom gulwrfeloba, sikeTe, niWiereba yvelgan fasobs da imarjvebs. mas Semdeg kidev oTxjer imogzaura safrangeTSi, SeiZleba iTqvas, gaiJRinTa safrangeTis suliT, siyvaruliT, amitom misi Targmanebi gansakuTrebulad sainteresoa. waikiTxeT `franguli poeziis sami mSvenieri epoqa~, raTa kidev erTxel eziaroT franguli poeziis siRrmesa da silamazes!
