წავიდა თუ არა მამუკა ხაზარაძე პოლიტიკაში ანაკლიის პროექტის გამო?
ნინო ცხვარაძე: 591 98 24 30 –
`lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ politikur arenaze arcTu ise didi xnis winaT gamoCnda da damoukideblad brZola gadawyvita. politikuri gaerTianeba biznesmenebma – mamuka xazaraZem da badri jafariZem daaarses. ukavSirdeba Tu ara biznesmenebis politikaSi wasvla anakliis ports, am da Cvens sxva kiTxvebs politikuri moZraobis Tavmjdomare mamuka xazaraZem upasuxa.
– batono mamuka, Tqven ambobT, rom mesame Zala xarT. ratom arasdros gamogixatavT sajarod protesti mixeil saakaSvilis mmarTvelobis dros da, aseve, ratom ar akritikebdiT moqmed xelisuflebas im dromde, vidre Tqveni konkretuli biznesinteresebis realizacia ver moaxerxeT?
– Cven ara mesame, aramed alternatiuli Zala varT im ori polusisa, romlebmac qveyanaSi, praqtikulad, politikuri Cixi Seqmnes. proporciul saarCevno sistemaze gadasvlisas vaqtiurobdiT, sakmaod seriozuli energia davxarjeT, es kanoni rom mieRoT.
– am brZolaSi Tqven ar gaerTiandiT sxva opoziciur ZalebTan. ratom?
– Cven pirvelive dRidan vacxadebT, rom varT damoukidebeli da alternatiuli Zala, romelic saSualebas miscems amomrCevels, arCevani, praqtikulad, axal Zalasa da xedvaze gaakeTos. bolo 17-ma welma dagvanaxa, rom qveyanaSi iyo kargi momentebic, ar minda yvelaferi mxolod Sav-TeTr ferebSi davinaxo, magram, mTlianobaSi, wina xelisufleba Zaladobriv xelisuflebad Camoyalibda, bolo rva welia ki, romelSic `qarTulma ocnebam~ gvamyofa – sruli stagnaciaa, qveyana ar viTardeba. viRac gzas rom agebs da moajirs akeTebs Cveni gadaxdili fuliT, es ar aris politikosoba. es Cveulebrivi ambavia da aucilebeli, rac xelisuflebam da saxelmwifom unda gaukeTos adamianebs. rac Seexeba Tqvens pirvel kiTxvas, Tu piradad Cemzea saubari, warmovadgendi qveyanaSi yvelaze did safinanso instituts, romelic Sevqmeni nulidan, Cems megobrebTan erTad da sadac muSaobs 10 aTasi adamiani. mTeli qveynis mosaxleobis 40 procentis finansebi inaxeba `Tibisi bankSi~. Tu Tqven am pasuxismgeblobas gaiTavisebT da dainaxavT, ras niSnavs, roca mosaxleobis es raodenoba Tavis danazogs gabarebs da imasac Tu daamatebT, rom es banki ar aris saqarTveloSi moTamaSe banki, aramed aris saerTaSoriso bazarze saerTaSoriso kodeqsiT momuSave, sakmaod seriozuli SezRudvebia saimisod, rom gamoxvide da politikuri gancxadebebi akeTo. amitom, miuxedavad imisa, rom `nacionaluri moZraobis~ dros Cemze sisxlis samarTlis saqme iyo aRZruli 2003 wlidan 2007 wlamde, da miuxedavad imisa, rom 2005 wlidan 2013 wlamde sasamarTlo procesebi mqonda, marTmevdnen qonebas aWaraSi, amis Sesaxeb sazogadoebisTvis ar ganmicxadebia, mivmarTe samarTlebriv gzas. marTalia, ar mqonda imedi, magram yvela instanciis sasamarTlo movige, Sedegi ki mainc sxva dadga _ miwa, romelsac erTi adamiani marTmevda, mis saxelze aRmoCnda. amiT, iciT, risi Tqma minda? brZola ar gamiCerebia, ubralod, preskonferenciebs ar vatarebdi. urTierTsawinaaRmdego ramaa, erTi mxriv xalxis fuli gebaros da, meore mxriv, politikur gancxadebebs akeTebde, Tumca samarTlebrivi brZola ar SemiCerebia. rac Seexeba `qarTul ocnebas~, anakliis gamo ki ar daviwyeT xelisuflebis kritika, aramed, imis gamo, rom surdaT, CvenTvis daebralebinaT iseTi ram, razec dgas Cveni cxovreba. saubaria fulis gaTeTrebaze, amaze didi danaSauli ki ar arsebobs _ biznesSi Tu xar, es mkvlelobis tolfasia. davinaxeT, rom es ar iyo erTjeradi gaugebroba, es iyo kampania, romelic, sabolood, mimarTuli iyo Cemi da badri jafariZis diskreditaciisken im momentSi, roca Cven ukve vamTavrebdiT anakliis proeqtisTvis finansebis mozidvas – 400 milionze xeli gvqonda mowerili, 75 milioni ki investirebuli iyo da iwyeboda mSenebloba. xelisuflebas surda, CvenTvis daebralebina anakliis gaCereba da proeqti CaSliliyo. man am mizans droebiT miaRwia. dRevandeli gadasaxedidan, roca tamanis porti, novorosiiskis bolo terminali aSenda, ukve imaze ki ar aris laparaki, rom Cven davkargeT raRac, an im investorebma, romlebsac fuli CavadebineT, aramed naTlad gamoCnda, rom anaklia waarTves saqarTvelos. xelisuflebaSi aRaravin saubrobs anakliis portis mSeneblobaze. davuSvaT, rom kompaniam ver Seasrula valdebuleba da am scenars gavyveT, ratom ar gamoacxades axali tenderi, ratom ar moiwvies axali investori?
– ra interesi aqvs xelisuflebas?
– ruseTis interesSi ar Sedis anakliis portis mSenebloba, romliTac saqarTvelo, praqtikulad, rukaze Cndeboda rogorc sruluflebiani moTamaSe im miwodebis jaWvisa, romelic azias evropasTan akavSirebs. roca Sen gyavs agresori mezobeli, romelsac okupirebuli aqvs Seni teritoriebi da anakliidan 4 kilometrSi jari uyenia, misi komerciuli interesi seriozulad dazaraldeba, Tu anaklia aSendeba.
– batono mamuka, Tqveni monawileobiT rom ganxorcielebuliyo anakliis proeqti, waxvidodiT politikaSi?
– ras niSnavs – Cemi monawileobiT? me viyavi is pirovneba, romelmac bolo 25 wlis ganmavlobaSi Cems gundTan erTad qveyanaSi yvelaze didi investicia Semovitane: bolo 7 weliwadSi _ 6 miliardi. Cven viyaviT pirveli kompania, romelmac 1996 wels 26 milioni dolari SemovitaneT borjomSi da es im dros, roca qveynis biujeti 100 milioni iyo. amiT imis Tqma minda, rom anaklia Cemi proeqti verasdros iqneboda, amaSi 4 uzarmazari banki da 5 qveynis investorebi monawileobdnen. xelisuflebis mTeli propaganda dafuZnebulia imaze, rom personificireba gakeTdes, rom anaklia, sabanko seqtori xazaraZisaa, saprocento ganakveTebs me vaweseb, gavcem personalurad sesxebs, rom adamianebs binebi waarTvan. . . es Savi piaria. arc erT kompaniaSi, arc bankSi da arc sxvagan ar mqonia sakontrolo paketi, arc 50 procenti.
– anakliis portis investorebi saxelmwifosgan iTxovdnen tvirTebis dazRvevas. varaudobT, rom SesaZloa ports sakmarisi tvirTebi ar hqondes? ekonomikurad ramdenad momgebiani iqneba anakliis porti, roca baTumis da foTis portebi tvirTebiT mxolod sanaxevrodaa datvirTuli?
– saqarTveloSi bolo 3 weliwadSi konteinerebis brunvam yvela molodins gadaaWarba – 40-procentiani zrdaa. es niSnavs, rom Cveni portebi am mxriv arian pikze. pandemiis miuxedavad, pirveli kvartalis maCveneblebi gaizarda, gaisad simZlavre ar gveqneba saqarTveloSi, tvirTebi rom gavataroT. meorec, Sav zRvaSi mocurave gemebis 75 procenti saqarTvelos portebSi ver Semodis. dRes, roca stambolSi Semodis didi gemi, iq saqoneli itvirTeba patara gemebze da Semodis saqarTvelos yvelaze did, foTis portSi, romelic weliwadSi uamindobis gamo 100 dRiT daketilia, romel biznesis da ekonomikis ganviTarebaze, tranzitul qveyanazea saubari? anakliis pirveli proeqti oTar facacias dros, 60-ian wlebSi gakeTda, Semdgom mas SevardnaZis periodSi miubrundnen, saakaSvilma ki saxeli Seucvala da lazika daarqva. es proeqti 50 welia arsebobs. Cven sanam am proeqts SeveWidebodiT, ukve iyo iaponelebis daskvna, romelic mTavrobam daukveTa – sWirdeba Tu ara qveyanas da sad unda aSendes Rrmawylovani porti. Seiswavles foTi, yulevi, baTumi. erTaderTi, sadac SeiZleba aSendes porti – anakliaa. kvlevaSi uzarmazari Tanxaa gadaxdili. 4 sxvadasxva saerTaSoriso kvlevaa, romlebiTac dasturdeba, rom anaklia komerciulad momgebiania da is faqti, rom 400 milionze bankebTan xeli gvqonda mowerili, amaze metyvelebs. arc erTi banki xels ar mogiwers, momgebiani rom ar iyos proeqti. radgan anaklia 4 kilometrSia konfliqtis zonasTan, riskis faqtori Zalian didia da bankebma moiTxoves, im SemTxvevaSi, Tu anaklia aSendeba da porti raRacis gamo gaCerdeba, maTTvis, rogorc mTavari damfinanseblebisTvis, migveca 50 milionze garantia, rom saprocento gadaxdebi ar gaCerdeba. es ar aris saCuqari, es unda daeweros maT sesxad da roca amuSavdeba, saxelmwifos daubrundes. amave dros ambobdnen, rom evrokavSiridan meore 50 milions Tavad Camoitandnen da mesame 50 milioni kompaniam unda dados. sagarantio fondze iyo saubari. roca pandemiis dros aRmoCnda 150 milioni lari, rom binebi iyidon developerebisgan, socialuri daxmarebisTvis da roca amxela perspeqtivas gaZlevda anakliis proeqti, 10 aTasobiT samuSao adgils moitanda, ekonomikaSi uzarmazar wvlils Seitanda, Sen ki aSenebul portSi Tanamonawileobaze uars ambob, garantiazea saubari da yvelaze mTavar sponsorebze – jafariZe-xazaraZeze mTel msoflios eubnebi, rom eseni fuls aTeTreben, miTxariT, ra hqvia amas?
– batono mamuka, mixeil saakaSvilisgan Rirsebis ordeni gaqvT miRebuli, xolo salome zurabiSvils meore turSi Riad dauWireT mxari. . .
– esec cudi piaris nawilia. roca laparakia Cems romelime xelisuflebasTan miwebebaze, absurdia. dRes CemTvis yofili da moqmedi xelisuflebis politika erTia. Rirsebis ordeni, Cemda gasakvirad, kabinetSi gamomigzavna saakaSvilma dacvis wevris xeliT da ver gavige, ratom. Cveni axsna aseTi iyo _ quTaisSi bankis lamazi Senoba CavdgiT moedanze da amis aRsaniSnavad. paralelurad, sisxlis samarTlis saqme iyo Cemze aRZruli, qonebas marTmevdnen da prokuraturaSi matarebdnen. absurdis Teatri iyo. Zalian viwro spekulaciis ambavia Rirsebis ordeni, rac ar imuSavebs. rac Seexeba salome zurabiSvils, mas ki ar davuWireT mxari, Cvens werilSi weria, rom qveyanaSi sasamarTlo sistema ar gvivarga, isic miweria, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ dros sisxlis samarTlis devnas rom axorcielebdnen da rogorc daskvna, davwere – revanSis winaaRmdegi var-meTqi. am qveyanaSi revanSizmi unda damTavrdes. miuxedavad imisa, ar momwons biZina ivaniSvilis politika, winaaRmdegi var, rom yvela erTis winaaRmdeg gaerTiandes. Cven movdivarT da viciT, xval ra unda gavakeToT da Tu xalxi mxars dagviWers, avtomaturad niSnavs, rom isini wavlen politikidan. revanSiT mosuli Zala, me Sen mogerevi, araa pozitiuri.
– rogor fiqrobT, ratom agiTvalwunaT xelisuflebam?
– anaklia iyo erT-erTi mizezi. amasTan, erTaderTi damoukidebeli biznesjgufi varT, romelic arc erT xelisuflebasTan arc Ria da arc farul garigebaSi yofila. gvaqvs Tavisuflebis maRali xarisxi. Cven warmovadgenT 10-aTaskacian koleqtivs da 40 procents qveynis finansebis. anaklias da perspeqtivas daupirispirda xelisufleba.
– marTalia, arCevnebSi damoukideblad apirebT brZolas, magram parlamentSi Sesvlis SemTxvevaSi, romel politikur ZalasTan gaerTiandebiT?
– gvinda gavimarjvoT iseTi raodenobiT, rom Tavad davakompleqtoT mTavroba. `qarTul ocnebasa~ da `nacionalur moZraobasTan~ ar gveqneba koalicia. saarCevno sistema saSualebas iZleva, bevri saintereso partia Sevides parlamentSi. Tu ase ar moxdeba da parlamenti ar iqneba mravalferovani, viqnebiT opoziciaSi, magram amaze ar vfiqrobT, vfiqrobT gamarjvebaze.
– vin iqnebian `lelos~ saarCevno siaSi aWaraSi?
– erT-erTi axalgazrda irakli kupraZea, danarCen kandidatebs SevaTanxmebT xalxTan. Cven pirvelebi viqnebiT, vinc xalxs vkiTxavT, vis endobian, rom maTi xma warmoadginon parlamentSi. arCevnebamde arCevnebs CavatarebT. Cveni amocanaa, parlamentsa da umaRles sabWoSi axalgazrda, ganaTlebuli kadrebi SeviyvanoT. Cveni kari Riaa yvelasTvis, vinc am qveyanas patiosnad emsaxureboda da ar aqvs mniSvneloba, romeli partiis dros muSaobda. Tu gvinda qveynis gaerTianeba, unda daviwyoT adamianebis gaerTianebiT.
– mosaxleobas xvdebiT. ras ambobs xalxi, misaRebia maTTvis biznesmenebis politikaSi mosvla?
– swored biznesmenebis politikaSi mosvla sWirdeba xalxs. Cven gvaqvs konkretuli gegma, rogor gamoviyvanoT qveyana Cixidan. adamianebs surT hqondeT samarTlianobis gancda da maTi Svilebi aq daixarjon. ekonomika, ganaTleba, sasamarTlo sistema _ esaa mTavari. kadrebi aris, unda moiwvio da gazardo. am qveynis gaerTianebaa Cveni mTavari mizani.
