,,როგორი ლეგიტიმაციითაც ეყოლება საქართველოს მოსახლეობას წარმომადგენლობა პარლამენტში, იგივე ლეგიტიმაციით ეყოლებათ მაჟორიტარები აჭარის მცხოვრებთ – უმაღლეს საბჭოში”
òîèï úåúõäïûå 27 48 93
rogor emzadebian winasaarCevno kampaniisTvis `qarTuli ocnebis~ baTumis saarCevno olqSi, ras fiqroben mmarTveli gundis warmomadgenlebi politikur procesebze da gamoiyeneben Tu ara administraciul resurss arCevnebSi – amaze da umaRlesi sabWos saarCevno sistemis Sesaxeb saubrobs CvenTan interviuSi `qarTuli ocnebis~ baTumis saolqo organizaciis saarCevno olqis partiuli aqtivis koordinatori, aWaris soflis meurneobis ministris mrCeveli Tengiz afxazava.
– batono Tengiz, saarCevno Stabi ukve Camoyalibebulia?
– diax, oficialurad ukve dasaxelebulia aqtivi. baTumis organizaciis saolqo saarCevno Stabis ufrosi giorgi manveliZea, saolqo organizaciis mdivani – rostom abaSiZe, partiis aqtivis koordinatori – me, xolo axalgazrduli aqtivis xelmZRvanelia ediSer sirabiZe. winasaarCevno mzadeba aqtiurad mimdinareobs. vecdebiT, srul mzadyofnaSi davxvdeT amomrCevlebs.
– opozicia acxadebs, rom am arCevnebs `qarTuli ocneba~ gansakuTrebulad gaayalbebs da unda velodoT oponentebis daSinebas, dapatimrebebs, muqarebs. . .
– yvelas kargad gvaxsovs, 2012 wels rogori arCevnebi Caatara wina xelisuflebam. swored maSin iyo saSineli saarCevno viTareba. amis miuxedavad, xalxma mainc SeZlo sakuTari xmebis dacva da im politikuri Zalis arCeva, romelic ukeTesad miiCnia. maSin naTeli gaxldaT sazogadoebis dakveTa – saakaSvilis reJimi erTxel da samudamod unda dasrulebuliyo am qveyanaSi. mas Semdeg `qarTuli ocnebis~ mier Catarebuli yvela arCevnebi iyo absoluturad sufTa, gamWvirvale da demokratiuli. gavixsenoT 2014 wels TviTmmarTvelobis, 2016-Si – saparlamento da umaRlesi sabWos, 2017-Si isev TviTmmarTvelobis, xolo 2018 wels – saprezidento arCevnebi. arcerT saerTaSoriso Tu adgilobriv sadamkvirveblo organizacias, romelimeze mainc, ar uTqvams, rom gayalbda an arademokratiulad Catarda. piriqiT, yovel jerze, saarCevno organizebis, gamWvirvalobis TvalsazrisiT, yvela Semdgomi arCevnebi iyo wingadadgmuli nabiji. amitom ar mimaCnia mizanSewonilad am braldebebze rame komentaris gakeTebac ki.
– ras gvaZlevs axali saarCevno sistema?
– maJoritarebis raodenoba 77-dan 30-mde Semcirda, ase rom, kidev ufro demokratiuli gaxda saarCevno sistema. amiT sazogadoebas individualuri azris dafiqsirebis meti SesaZlebloba mieca. ukve yvelas aqvs saSualeba, gavlena moaxdinos arCevnebis Sedegebze, anu saparlamento warmomadgenloba xalxis xmis Sesabamisi iqneba. esec gvaZlevs imis Tqmis safuZvels, rom absurdulia opoziciis mier wamoyenebuli braldebebi. aranair gayalbebas, Zaladobas, muqaras Tu daSinebas adgili ar hqonia da arc eqneba. isic kargad ician, rom lamis gamadidebeli SuSiT gvakvirdebian rogorc saerTaSoriso, ise adgilobrivi masStabis damkvirveblebi da arasamTavrobo Tu politikuri organizaciebi. isini aqveyneben angariSebs da yvelas SeuZlia gaecnos, rom `qarTul ocnebasTan~ am mxriv aravis aranairi pretenzia hqonia.
– administraciuli resursis gamoyeneba xom ar daiSveba?
– es braldeba yovelTvis aris dRis wesrigSi yvela arCevnebis dros, yvela opoziciuri Zalisgan. modiT, sxvanairad SevxedoT sakiTxs: mas Semdeg, rac borotebis imperia, sabWoTa kavSiri daingra, yvela Catarebuli arCevnebis Semdeg irkvevdnen, iyenebda Tu ara im periodSi xelisuflebaSi myofi partia administraciul resurss. am istoriis da statistikis fonze, yvelaze sufTaa `qarTuli ocnebis~ xelisufleba, radgan arcerT arCevnebSi arasodes gamouyenebia administraciuli resursi. ufro mets getyviT, swored am xelisuflebam Secvala `Sromis kodeqsi~ da rogorc TviTmmarTvelobebSi, ise sajaro dawesebulebebSi, saSualo da dabali rgolis Semadgenlobebi daakompleqta uSualod konkursebis wesiT. Sesabamisad, es adamianebi arian sxvadasxva partiis warmomadgenlebi, romlebic TavianT politikur liderebs uWeren mxars. maT amis gamo aravin aviwroebs da ar aiZulebs, Seicvalos gansxvavebuli azri da xedva. yvelaferTan erTad, maT swored is kodeqsi icavT, adre aravin arafrad rom agdebda. Sesabamisad, ra administraciuli resursis gamoyenebaze SeiZleba saubari? es aris Cveulebrivi, rigiTi braldeba, romelsac yvela arCevnebze yvela xelisuflebas uyeneben opoziciis warmomadgenlebi. msgavsi midgoma gagrZeldeba kidev mraval weliwads, magram 2012 wlis arCevnebma kargad dagvanaxa, rom administraciuli, finansuri Tu arafinansuri resursebis gamoyenebis, daSinebis, mkvlelobebis da wamebis miuxedavad, waago maSindelma xelisuflebam. xalxis nebas win veravin da veraferi daudgeba, es aris faqti.
– rac Seexeba maRali rangis sajaro mosamsaxureebis saarCevno kampaniaSi monawileobas, Tqveni – rogorc sajaro piris koordinatoroba ar CaiTvleba darRvevad?
– kanoniT dadgenilia, ra formiT SeuZlia sajaro pirs CaerTos saarCevno kampaniaSi. erT SemTxvevaSi, SeuZlia arasamuSao, piradi dro gamoiyenos an aiRos Svebuleba. sxva mxriv, sajaro moxeleebi ar arian CarTulni am kampaniaSi. es gamoricxulia. axla yvelaferi sakmaod martivadaa, radgan nebismiers Zalian yuradRebiT gvakvirdebian, gviTvlian saaTebs da wuTebsac ki, amowmeben rodis SevdivarT da gamovdivarT samsaxuridan. ase rom, aravin mivcemT Tavs uflebas, gadavametoT uflebamosilebas da amiT dartyma mivayenoT partiis mier warmoebul winasaarCevno aqtivobebs. gansakuTrebuli dakvirvebis qveS imyofebian ministrebi, maTi moadgileebi, qalaqis meri Tu departamentebis xelmZRvanelebi. isini samuSao saaTebSi arasodes modian saarCevno StabSi, rac unda mZafri viTareba Seiqmnas. samuSao dros isini mTlianad uTmoben muSaobas.
– saerTod, modian ki?
– rogor ara. rodesac dasruldeba samuSao dRe da Tanamdebobis piri Semoivlis sakuTari partiis ofisSi, amaSi veravin daadanaSaulebs.
– yvelaze metad `qarTul ocnebas~ da mis liders brals sdeben amomrCevlis mosyidvaSi. saprezidento arCevnebis dros sabanko valebis gadaxdam uzarmazari rezonansi gamoiwvia: dadebiTi – xalxSi, uaryofiTi – opoziciaSi.
– am valebis gadaxda ramdenime TviT adre daanonsda da arCevnebTan aranair kavSirSi ar yofila. imis nacvlad, gaxarebodaT, rom amdenma aTasma adamianma da misma ojaxma suli moiTqva, lamis borotebaSi CauTvales es nabiji. isic kargad gaxsovT, ra antireklamas eweodnen dendrologiur parkTan dakavSirebiT: `xeebs glejs, TavisTvis miaqvs, xalxs araferi SearCina~ da a.S. sad gaqrnen axla es bunebis damcvelebi, rodesac yvelam dainaxa, rogori unikaluri parki gakeTda?
– am arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT batoni biZina rame siurprizs xom ar gvimzadebs?
– biZina ivaniSvili saxelmwifos marTvis procesebSi ar erTveba. qveyanas marTavs kompetenturi saxelisuflebo gundi, romelmac msoflio pandemiis periodSi ara mxolod saqarTvelos mosaxleobas, mTel msoflios aCvena marTvis umaRlesi klasi. xalxze mzrunvelma mTavrobam yvelas daanaxa, rogor unda imarTos saxelmwifo ukiduresi krizisis, kritikuli menejmentis pirobebSi. es aris faqti! pandemiis marTvis unikaluri qarTuli modelic ki Seikra. amas mTeli planeta aRiarebs. rac Seexeba batoni biZinas pozicias, getyviT, rom is sul fiqrobs da zrunavs Tavis qveyanasa da Tavis xalxze, romelzec uzomodaa Seyvarebuli, saqarTvelos patriotia. . . Tu SeiZleba, SemogibrunebT kiTxvas – arasaarCevno periodebSi rom afinansebs uzarmazar proeqtebs, maSinac amomrCevlebis mosyidvaze fiqrobs? maSin ratom ar svamT aseT kiTxvebs? gaakeTa delfinariumi da aCuqa qalaqs, gaakeTa zooparkebi, botanikuri baRi, Teatrebi, unikaluri sakoncerto darbazi, parkebi, muzeumebi… romeli erTi CamovTvalo, aRarc vici, magram rCebian iseTebi, romlebic ebrZvian, Tumca ras, vis an ratom, Tavadac ver gaugiaT da esaa yvelaze metad sawyeni.
– pandemiis periodma marTlac ukan dagvxia – didi inflaciaa, produqts `cecxli ekideba~, xelfasma Zala dakarga, umuSevrobam gaugonar zRvars miaRwia. ekonomika veRar ereva zarals. . .
– cxadia, krizisuli periodia, romlis drosac aucilebelia sagangebo biujetze gadasvla, rac gaakeTa kidec xelisuflebam – warmoadgina yvela mimarTulebiT zustad gaTvlili strategia, Tu rogor unda marTon qveyana krizisul periodSi. isic aRsaniSnavia, rom msoflioSi veravin akeTebs prognozs, rodis da rogori iqneba pandemiis meore talRa. yvela vismenT, ramxela katastrofebs iwvevs virusi aziis qveynebSi, ra xdeba indoeTsa da iaponiaSi. postsabWoTa qveynebSi – yazaxeTSi, uzbekeTSi – saSinel dReSi arian. mirekaven uzbekeTidan megobrebi, miyvebian iqaur ambebs. rodesac skaipiT CaverTe da davanaxe CvenTan quCebSi rogor moZraobs xalxi, gaukvirdaT, samoTxeSi cxovrobTo, Cven dRis pirvel naxevarSi, isic manqanebiT Tu gavdivarT, uqme dReebSi ki gareT fexis gadgmasac gvikrZalaven, qalaqebs Soris mimosvla SezRudulia, kafe-restornebi, maRaziebi daketilia, lamis araferi muSaobso. yvelaferi SedarebiTia, xom marTalia? Tanac Cvenma xelisuflebam moaxerxa soliduri kapitalis mozidva finansuri institutebidan, rac pirveli da meore etapis dasaZlevad sakmarisia. imis ganxilvas, rasac `nacionaluri moZraobis~ warmomadgenlebi gvTavazobdnen populisturi gamosvlebiT – 1000 lari davurigoT TiTo ojaxso, arc ki Sevudgebi, radgan nebismierma ekonomistma kargad icis, ra inflaciur procesebsac gamoiwvevda 4-5 miliardi fuladi masis erTdrouli Semotana qveyanaSi. merwmuneT, xelisuflebas Tanmimdevrulad mihyavs qveyana keTilsaimedo ekonomikuri momavlisken. mTavaria, gadavlaxoT krizisi da SedarebiT naklebi danakargebiT gamovideT pandemiis msaxvrali Sedegebisgan. erTic icodeT, udanakargod msoflios verc erTi saxelmwifo ver gamova am viTarebidan. minda gavimeoro, rom Cveni mTavrobis swori, gaazrebuli, pandemiis marTvis strategiuli ekonomikuri pilitikis wyalobiT, saerTaSoriso finansuri institutebisgan viRebT dafinansebas, romelic mizanmimarTulad Semoedineba biujetSi. is TavisTavad Seuwyobs xels Cveni ekonomikis dabalansebul ganviTarebas. sanam ar aRmoaCenen vaqcinas da ar davdgebiT pandemiis srulad aRmofxvris SesaZleblobis winaSe, manamde veravin gansazRvravs, rogori tempebiT da ra mimarTulebiT moxdeba qveynis ekonomikis dastabilureba.
– soflis meurneobaze amyarebdnen did imedebs. romelime programa xom ar SeCerebula pandemiis gamo?
– sul ramdenime programa SeaCera Cvenma soflis meurneobis saministrom, Tumca, darwmunebuli var, es did zegavlenas ver moaxdens soflis meurneobaze. aRsaniSnavia, rom udidesi mxardaWera aqvT fermerebs: pirveli – miwis damuSavebis kuTxiT, meore – esaa nakveTebis mTliani Sewamvla da mavneblebisagan xe-mcenareebisa da nargavebis dacva, mesame – fermerebis momarageba nergebiT. didi xelSewyoba aqvT sasaTbure meurneobebs, gadamamuSavebel sawarmoebs, keTdeba uamravi ram. Cven unda SevZloT gavakeToT is, rac pirvel nomrad dagvisaxa saqarTvelos xelisuflebam, anu arsebuli miwis fondis maqsimaluri gamoyeneba pirveladi produqciis misaRebad.
– xom ar gamoiwvevs xmebis dakargvas maJoritarebis raodenobis mkveTrad Semcireba, ramac municipalitetebis da amomrCevelTa gaerTianeba gamoiwvia?
– maJoritaruli dayofis ZiriTadi principia amomrCevelTa Tanabari raodenoba. baTumis axali teritoriebi: Caqvis, mwvane koncxis da maxinjauris nawili gadava qobuleTSi, xelvaCuris mxare SeuerTdeba zemo aWaras da baTumi daaxloebiT daubrundeba Zvel administraciul sazRvrebs. aq kenWs iyris resan konceliZe, qobuleTSi – zaal miqelaZe, xolo maRalmTianeTSi – anzor bolqvaZe.
– umaRlesi sabWoc igive principiT daasaxelebs kandidatebs?
– diax, igive principiT. iyo amaze uazro winaaRmdegobebi. arada, rodesac am sakiTxze saubrob, cota seriozuli argumentebia mosayvani. ra undodaT, ras amtkicebdnen, ratom unda vyofiliyaviT gansxvavebuli danarCeni saqarTvelosgan – gaugebaria. Cven xom erTiani qarTuli sivrce, erTiani ekonomikis Semadgeneli nawili varT. mosaxleobisTvis ra ufro iolia, igive sazRvrebSi Catardes arCevnebi, Tu gansxvavebulSi? teritorias sxvagvarad rogor gadavanawilebT aWaris samaJoritaro olqebisTvis?
– iTxovdnen, rom aWaraSi proporciuli sistemiT Catarebuliyo umaRlesi sabWos arCevnebi.
– isedac patara qveyana varT, sadac sul 3 700 000 adamiani cxovrobs. aq, am erT kuTxeSi, sxva midgoma da principebi iyos, vidre danarCen teritoriaze, ar mimaCnia samarTlianad. Tuki raRac gadawyvetilebas miiRebs centri, igive gadawyvetileba, upriania, gavrceldes regionebzec. am SemTxvevaSi, absoluturad identurad, igive samaJoritaro sistemiT, amomrCevelTa igive raodenobiT isargeblebs yvela. rogori legitimaciiTac eyoleba saqarTvelos mosaxleobas warmomadgenloba parlamentSi, igive legitimaciiT eyolebaT maJoritarebi aWaris mcxovrebT umaRles sabWoSi. es aris swori gadawyvetileba.
