ირაკლი მიქელაძე: ძალიან კარგია საერთაშორისო ჩართულობა, მაგრამ მთავარი მაინც იმ საზოგადოების აზრი და პოზიციაა, რომელიც წყვეტს, ვინ უნდა იყოს პოლიტიკაში
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germaniaSi mcxovrebma Cvenma Tanaqalaqelma irakli miqelaZem ramdenime dRis win socialur qselSi kampania wamoiwyo heSTegiT – #mevarSenifasilitatori. man sazogadoebas mouwoda, Caweron videomimarTva da moniSnon megobrebi – `vaCvenoT politikosebs, rom Cven sxva procesebs viTxovT! Cven sxvanair xvalindel dRes viTxovT! es Cveni qveyanaa da es niSnavs, rom es Cveni pasuxismgeblobaa!~ – dawera man socialur qselSi, sadac Tavisi videomimarTva gaavrcela.
irakli miqelaZe baTumis sakrebulos ori mowvevis deputati iyo. 2017 wlis mowvevis sakrebulos wevroba man vadaze adre sakuTari gancxadebiT datova, mizezad ki germaniaSi swavla daasaxela (is safinanso samarTlis magistrantia).
irakli miqelaZe ucxoeTidan xSirad exmaureba saqarTveloSi mimdinare politikur movlenebs. Cven mas germaniaSi davukavSirdiT.
– irakli, Tqven socialur qselSi kampania wamoiwyeT da sazogadoebas mouwodebT, sakuTari azri gamoxatos saqarTveloSi mimdinare politikur procesebTan dakavSirebiT. ra aris am kampaniis mTavari mizani?
– kargad rom davakvirdeT da gavaanalizoT, rac Cven irgvliv xdeba, mivalT erT martiv WeSmaritebamde – unda vaRiaroT, rom qveyanaSi ver SevZeliT sazogadoebis sworad informireba. saqarTveloSi sazogadoebam miiCnia, rom 100 adamiania dakavebuli politikiT da mTeli pasuxismgebloba maTze gadavanawileT, mivandeT Cveni bed-iRbali da danarCeni sazogadoeba aRmovCndiT politikuri Teatris mayureblebi. ubedureba isaa, dagvajeres, rom mxolod mayureblebi varT, sinamdvileSi am Teatris dasasruli pirdapir kavSirSia Cvens momavalTan.
– riT aris es yvelaferi ganpirobebuli?
– ori faqtoriT. pirveli – es aris politikosebis damsaxureba, maT yvelaze metad aZlevT xels es mocemuloba da meore, mediis roli, rac sakmaod cudad isaxeba am yvelaferze, imitom, rom, samwuxarod, unda vaRiaroT, yvela medias da Jurnalists ar vgulisxmob, magram aris kategoria, rac igrZnoba kidec, rom arian mxare da mikerZoebulebi. arc malaven da pirdapir acxadeben, rom arian ama Tu im partiis mxardamWerebi da Riad arian dakavebulni propagandiT. roca mudmivad ismis, rom sazogadoeba arafer SuaSia, daijera kidec xalxma, rom maTi roli araferSi mdgomareobs, garda imisa, unda mividnen arCevnebze da pozicia daafiqsiron. Teoriulad asec unda iyos, magram, samwuxarod, Cvens qveyanas, romelic udidesi kulturis da tradiciebis matarebelia, rogorc damoukidebel saxelmwifos, didi xnis istoria ar aqvs. Cvenc raRacebs vswavlobT da etapebs gavdivarT. rac gamoikveTa, aris is, rom jerac ar gvaqvs naswavli rogor unda viyoT pasuxismgebliani moqalaqeebi, rogor unda SevqmnaT qveyanaSi iseTi garemo, rom politikosebma zustad icodnen, maTi ToToeuli sityva da qmedeba pirdapir aisaxeba maT politikur momavalze.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– Zalian minda neitralurad visaubro, miuxedavad imisa, rom konkretuli partiis wevri da mxardamWeri var. am aqciiT vcdilob, obieqturi viyo. Cven, qarTvel amomrCevels dagvCemda mexsierebis problema. moqmedi xelisufleba apelirebs wina cxrawlian, sisxlian reJimze, es gayidvadi Temaa, gavige, magram adamianebi, romlebic adre prorusul Zalas warmoadgendnen, dRes Turme evropuli Rirebulebebis matareblebi yofilan da piriqiT. vinc memarjvene iyo, memarcxene yofila, memarcxene Rirebulebebis matarebeli ki memarjvene. sabolood, politikosebi ise icvlian msoflmxedvelobas da pozicias, aranairi problema ar aqvT, radgan ician – sazogadoeba amaze ar reagirebs. am tipis Tavisuflebam migviyvana iqamde, sadamdec migviyvana. unda vaRiaroT, Tu politikoss ecodineba, rom mas irCeven ara imitom, rom kargi adamiania, aramed Tavisi ideoloogis gamo, ras gaakeTebs, rogor xedavs qveynis ganviTarebas da a. S. swori kriteriumebiT Tu SevafasebT maT, maSin problemebic ar gveqneba. samwuxarod, qveyanaSi gvaqvs mocemuloba – politikosebs virCevT yvelafris gamo garda imisa, ris gamoc unda avirCioT – es aris gegma, Tu ras gvTavazobs. Cveni politikosebis umravlesobidan, gulwrfelad getyviT, cota meguleba iseTi, romelmac icis, ratomaa politikaSi da aqvs xedva.
– qveyanaSi politikuri krizisia. opozicia am dromde ar Sedis sakanonmdeblo organoSi, ver SeTanxmdnen mxareebi. germaniidan rogor Cans es yvelaferi?
– rodesac ori mxarea dapirispirebuli da maT aqvT mkveTrad gansxvavebuli mosazrebebi, am SemTxvevaSi CemTvis mTavari sazomia, ras fiqroben eqspertebi, is profesionalebi, romlebsac Sefaseba ZaluZT. ramdenad samarTlianad Catarda arCevnebi, amaze ar unda vimsjeloT erTi mxaris poziciiT – arc xelisuflebis da arc opoziciis, radgan orive mxarea. saerTaSoriso organizaciebi, romlebsac am tipis muSaobis gamocdileba aqvT, amboben, rom arCevnebi ar gayalbebula. es CemTvis niSnavs imas, rom arCevnebi ar gayalbebula. Cveni mizania, avaSenoT evropuli tipis saxelmwifo. amdenad, mgonia, rom opoziciis axireba ar aris logikuri.
– anu, axirebad miiCnevT maT ultimatums vadamdel arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT?
– axirebad miviCnev maT mTavar safuZvels, rom arCevnebi gayalbda. erTmaneTisgan unda gavmijnoT ori ram, pirveli: amboben, rom arCevnebi gayalbda da amiT iwyeben sxva danarCen procesebs. arCevnebi gayalbda maTi azriT, xolo saerTaSoriso organizaciebi amboben, rom arCevnebi iyo legitimuri, TumcaRa arsebobda garkveuli tipis xarvezebi, razec SegviZlia vimsjeloT. magram imas, rom arCevnebma ver gamoxata qarTuli sazogadoebis pozicia, arcerTi saerTaSoriso organizacia ar ambobs. `qarTuli ocneba~ Tavis wil pasuxismgeblobas ver gaeqceva, faqtia, qveyanaSi politikuri krizisia. es ar aris ganpirobebuli imiT, rom opozicia Zlieria. mas ra reitingic hqonda wina wlebSi, igive aqvs dResac da SesaZloa, momavalSic hqondes. Sen, rodesac ufro meti mxardamWeri gyavs da xelisuflebaSi xar, meti pasuxismgeblobac gekisreba. imaze, rom qveyanaSi arsebobs politikuri krizisi, ekonomikuri Tundac da sxva mravali, Tvalis daxuWva arasworia. problemebis gadaWraze fiqria saWiro da amaze poziciac da opoziciac erToblivad unda muSaobdes. es rom ase ar aris, mTavari mizezi opoziciis axirebaa, rac CanasaxSive arasworia. minda, sazogadoebam SeZlos am ori momentis erTmaneTisgan gamijvna, zustad unda vicodeT, raSi davadanaSauloT `qarTuli ocneba~. miuxedavad imisa, rom me am gundis wevri var, vTvli, rom jansaRi kritika warmatebis safuZvelia. TumcaRa, rodesac mTavari makritikebeli arajansaRi kritikiTaa dakavebuli da aqcenti gadatanili aqvs iqiTken, rom ufro meti problema Seiqmnas qveyanaSi, saboloo jamSi xelisuflebaSi isev mosvla rom SeZlon, ra Tqma unda, es ar aris jansaRi politikuri procesi da yvelaferi cudad aisaxeba TiToeul Cvenganze. swored amitom daviwye es aqcia. aqciis mTavari arsi mdgomareobs imaSi, rom sazogadoebam SevZloT da gavaCeroT politikuri TamaSobani da brZola, yvelam erTad daviwyoT fiqri, ra problemebi, gamowvevebi gvaqvs da veZeboT gamosavali. Tu gaagrZeleben mxolod sakuTar politikur imijze fiqrs, am SemTxvevaSi zaraldeba qveyana da vzaraldebiT Cven – am qveynis moqalaqeebi.
– didi dro ar aris gasuli, rac qveynis premieri giorgi gaxaria gadadga da es bevrma ara nika melias dakavebas, aramed gundSi ganxeTqilebas daukavSira.
– ganxeTqilebaze me ver visaubreb. yvelas SeuZlia dajdes saxlSi da aTasi versia ganaviTaros, ra da rogor SeiZleboda momxdariyo, magram xSirad isec yofila, rom arc araferi momxdara da imaze gacilebiT martivad iyo saqme, vidre Cveni fantazia gvkarnaxobda. giorgi gaxaria, vfiqrob, Zalian kargi premieri iyo am qveynis da modiT, pirdapir vTqvaT, am adamians gaaCnia Tavisi politikuri wona, romelic `qarTul ocnebaze~ pozitiurad aisaxeboda. rac Seexeba mizezs, mec, iseve rogorc Tqven, vici, rom is nika melias gamo gadadga. me, rogorc iuristi, yovelTvis vfiqrob, rom kanonis aRsruleba upirvelesia, magram rogorc politikosi, vfiqrob, rom kanonis aRsrulebas unda hqondes erTaderTi mizani – problema ar Seeqmnas saxelmwifos ganviTarebas da mis xvalindel dRes. romlis msjelobaa ufro kargi, politikosis Tu iuristis, dro gviCvenebs. faqtia, jerjerobiT iuristebma gaimarjves.
– giorgi gaxarias gadadgomisTanave daiwyo saubari, rom is saqarTveloSi mesame Zalas Caudgeba saTaveSi…
– molodini mesame Zalis gamoCenis arsebobs, Tumca imisa, rom giorgi gaxaria Semova politikur velze, am etapze ar maqvs. Tu gadawyvets, vfiqrob, Tavis niSasac ipovis da Tavis amomrCevelsac. misi roli didi da amavdroulad pozitiuri iyo `qarTul ocnebaSi~. mgonia, rom arafers avnebs qarTul politikur sivrces gaxarias msgavsi politikosebis gamoCena, magram ramdenad moxdeba ase, amasac dro gviCvenebs, radgan am etapze mas msgavsi gancxadeba ar gaukeTebia.
– mxareebi rom ver Tanmxdebian, faqtia. am kuTxiT ra molodini gaqvT?
– sityva fasilitatori Segnebulad gamoviyene. qarTvelebs gviyvars xolme araqarTuli sityvebis gamoyeneba da amiT xazs vusvamT, rom dasavleTi CarTulia procesebSi da marTlac asea, magram qarTuli sityvebis gamoyeneba ufro upriani iqneboda. aqciis arsi imaSi mdgomareobs, rom gvinda vuTxraT opoziciasac da poziciasac, erT mxares ar mivmarTavT, sazogadoeba gamadidebeli SuSiT akvirdeba procesebs, rac qveyanaSi mimdinareobs. Zalian kargia saerTaSoriso CarTuloba, magram mTavari mainc im sazogadoebis azri da poziciaa, romelic wyvets, vin unda iyos politikaSi. minda kidev erTxel Tqveni gazeTis meSveobiT mivmarTo politikosebs, rogor gadawyvetilebas miiReben isini, rogor gamovlen politikuri Cixidan da rogor SeZleben erToblivad gadawyvetilebis miRebas, es iqneba maTi politikuri momavlisTvis gadamwyveti. am aqciis arsia is, rom am adamianebs vuTxraT, kargia keklucoba da Cveneba, Tu ramdenad kargi gogo-biWebi arian, magram visac unda vaCvenoT Cveni SesaZleblobebi, es aris qarTveli xalxi, gadawyvetilebas swored xalxi iRebs. kidev erTxel gansakuTrebuli sifrTxilisken movuwodeb mxareebs – SeZlon sakuTar TavSi ipovon Zala, gadalaxon piradi dapirispireba, zizRi, erTmaneTisadmi da miiRon iseTi gadawyvetileba, romelic qveynisTvis iqneba sasargeblo. Cvens qveyanas sWirdeba erToblivad gadawyvetilebebis miReba da rogor unda gaakeTon es, maTze kargad aravin icis. Cven, vinc procesebSi ar vmonawileobT, garedan verafers vetyviT, magram faqtia, am SemTxvevaSi, sxva qveynidan vxedav imas, rom xelisufleba gamoxatavs mzaobas da motivirebulia SexvedrebisTvis, xolo opozicia procesebs iwyebs bevri pirobiT da amis Semdgom apireben laparakis dawyebas, rac araswori mgonia.
– rogor fiqrobT, ar unda opozicias marcxis aRiareba?
– mTeli rigi faqtorebia gasaTvaliswinebeli. mTavari aris is, rom opoziciaSi jansaRi nawili sakmaod didia. isini xvdebian, rom saWiroa politikur cxovrebaSi CarTva da am yvelafris jansaR procesebSi gadatana, vgulisxmob parlamentSi Sesvlas. visurvebdi, am partiebma, gansakuTrebulad axlebma, ar minda maTi dasaxeleba, SeZlon sakuTari Tavis povna da sakuTari politikis ganxorcieleba. Tu ginda sazogadoebam gagicnos, calke unda gagicnos da ara romeliRaca partias Tu figuras amofarebuli. visac es partiebi efarebian, Zalian kargad icnobs sazogadoeba. movuwodeb im patara opoziciur partiebs, Seecadon swrafad ganridebas am politikuri jgufisgan. damoukideblad gaagrZelon brZola da am SemTxvevaSi mzardi iqneba maTi reitingi.
