,,ცოტა უცნაურია, პოლიტპატიმარი დაარქვა ამ ორ ადამიანს, რომლებიც უფრო განტევების ვაცებს მოგვაგონებენ”
òîèï úåúõäïûå 27 48 93 –
evropuli sabWos prezidentis Sarl miSelis specialurma warmomadgenelma, Svedma diplomatma kristian danielsonma, romelsac politikuri mediaciis procesSi mediatoris roli unda Seesrulebina, ver miiRo sasurveli Sedegi anu igi uSedegod ecada im politikuri krizisis kvanZis gaxsnas, romelic qveyanaSi saparlamento arCevnebis Semdeg gaCnda.
CaSlili molaparakebebisa da kristian danielsonis briuselSi dabrunebis Semdeg, evroparlamentarebi saqarTvelosTvis finansuri daxmarebis SeCerebaze alaparakdnen im gancxadebaSi, romelic Tavad evrodeputatebma gamoaqveynes, kerZod, evrokavSirs saqarTvelosTvis daxmarebis Sewyvetis moTxovniT mimarTaven. garda amisa, evropeli parlamentarebis gancxadebiT, saqarTvelo-evrokavSiris urTierToba uwindeburad veRar gagrZeldeba. faqts ukve mohyva politikuri Sefasebebi mmarTvel partiasa da opoziciaSi. `patriotTa aliansis~ generaluri mdivani pasuxismgeblobas `qarTul ocnebas~ akisrebs, xelisufleba ki Tavs mxolod imSvidebs, rom 7 evroparlamentaris pozicia oficialuri ar aris. gansxvavebulia karl harcelis Sexeduleba, romelic mxareebs pirdapir mouwodebs, am gancxadebebs seriozulad miudgnen.
SegaxsenebT danielsonis eqvspunqtiani sakiTxebis CamonaTvals: ambiciuri saarCevno reforma; kanonis uzenaesoba da sasamarTlo reforma, kerZod, uzenaesi sasamarTlos mosamarTleTa daniSvnebi, iusticiis umaRles sabWoSi arCevnebis sakiTxebi da korufciasTan brZolis gaZliereba; politikuri marTlmsajuleba, kerZod, patimrebis sakiTxis gadaWra; parlamentSi ZalTa gadanawileba, rac moicavs sagamoZiebo komisiasa da pasuxismgeblobebisa da rolebis samarTlian gadanawilebas parlamentSi; potenciuri adreuli arCevnebi da mzadeba adgilobrivi arCevnebisTvis; fasilitacia-mediaciis gagrZeleba da miRweuli progresis gadamowmeba evrokavSiri – saqarTvelos asociaciis sabWos Sexvedraze.
Tu ras fiqrobs am sakiTxebze mmarTveli partia, ra pozicias afiqsirebs politikur krizisze da raSia gamosavali, `aWarasTan~ interviuSi saubrobs aWaris umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomaris moadgile tite aroSiZe.
– evrosabWos Carevis miuxedavad, SeTanxmeba ver Sedga. opoziciis or mTavar moTxovnad kvlav rCeba melia-ruruas gaTavisufleba da vadamdeli arCevnebis daniSvna. . .
– diax, molaparakebebi isev CaiSala, Tumca sanam mTavar saTqmelze gadavidodeT, minda am viTarebis preistoriis gaxseneba. mogexsenebaT, Tavidan ar arsebobda mesame mxaris mier SemoTavazebuli konkretuli dokumenti da evrosabWos warmomadgenelTan Sexvedra CaiSala. Semdeg ukve momzadda specialuri dokumenti, romelic iTvaliswinebda orive mxarisTvis misaReb pirobebs. kerZod, rodesac danielsons SeuTavses mediatoris funqcia am Sexvedrebis warmatebiT warmarTvisTvis, man Seiswavla arsebuli viTareba, ganixila yvela garemoeba da ganazogada im eqvspunqtian gegmaSi, romelic warudgina kidec mxareebs. minda aRvniSno, rom yvela punqti, ase Tu ise, misaRebi iyo rogorc poziciisTvis, ise opoziciisTvis. Tumca aq iyo erTi garemoeba, romelsac albaT, SemdgomSi gaiTvaliswineben – pirvel Sexvedraze xazgasmuli iyo, rom is mxare, romelic pirveli moawerda SeTanxmebas xels, valdebuli iqneboda wasuliyo daTmobebze da Seesrulebina dokumentSi miTiTebuli yvela punqti. danielsonis momzadebul dokumentSi es ar iyo miTiTebuli. kerZod, dokumenti miRebulad iTvleboda, Tuki orive mxare moawerda xels. rogorc sxvadasxva wyaroTi gaxda cnobili (molaparakebebi daxurul kars miRma mimdinareobda), arCil TalakvaZem mimarTa oponentebs: Tuki Tqven mzad xarT dokumentis xelmosawerad, me axlave movawer xels da dagidebT am eqvspunqtian gegmasTan erTado. opoziciam, cxadia, ukan daixia da isev daiwyo saubari e.w. politpatimrebsa da vadamdel arCevnebze.
– es sakiTxebi ar iyo asaxuli dokumentSi?
– ra Tqma unda, ara. es qveynis politikaa, romelSic evrosabWo ar da ver Caereva. am punqtebSi saubari iyo sasamarTlos reformebze, saarCevno kodeqsis formirebaze, sxavadasxva sistemis mowesrigebaze, paritetebis gansazRvraze, parlamentSi opoziciis Sesvlaze da iq sxvadasxva komitetis Camoyalibebaze, sagamoZiebo Tu saarCevno regulaciebisTvis komisiebis Seqmnaze, magram es maTTvis measexarisxovani iyo, radgan opozicia TamaSobs destruqciis scenars, Sesabamisad, isini arcerTi dokumentis xelmosawerad ar arian mzad.
– isini piriqiT acxadeben. . .
– es Cemi gamogonili ar aris, ramdenime dRis win ganacxades kidec `evropuli saqarTvelos~ da `lelos~ warmomadgenlebma: ra dokumentic ar unda momzaddes, xelisuflebamac rom moaweros xeli, Cven ar movawerTo. rodesac evroparlamentarebis gamosvlebze da dadgenilebebze apelireben, gaixsenon isic, rom es SeTanxmebis dokumentic da is eqvspunqtiani gegmac swored evroparlamentarebisganaa wamosuli, maTi monawileobiTaa SemuSavebuli, opoziciis qcevam ki gaamJRavna im politikosTa zraxvebi da mTavari amocana, amJamad saqarTvelos sazRvrebs gareT rom imyofebian da surT aq qaosis da areulobis mowyoba. igive, pozneris vizitic ki gamoiyenes qveyanaSi destabilizaciisa da sagareo urTierTobebis dasaZabad.
– Tuki arcki apirebdnen dokumentze xelmoweras, ra azri hqonda Tavidanve am molaparakebebSi CarTvas, pirdapir revoluciaze ratom ar gadavidnen?
– amisTvis dro da momxreebia saWiro, romlebic ar hyavT im raodenobiT, rogorc acxadeben. Tanac, evropis TvalSi surT dazaralebul da ganawyenebul mxared warmoCndnen. xom gamoiyenes im 7 evroparlamentaris gamosvla Tavis sasikeTod. gaabuqes yvelaferi da sul sxvadasxva interpretacia misces yvela frazas. ar awyobT daTanxmeba da arc eTanxmebian. TiTqos ainteresebT qveynis bedi da amitom midian am Sexvedrebze, Torem rac unda SesTavazos maT mmarTvelma gundma an evrosabWos warmomadgenlebma, ar moaweren xels. maTTvis erTaderTi misaRebi gzaa xelisuflebaSi mosvla, magram ra meTodebiT moxdeba es, ar anaRvlebT.
– politpatimrebis gaTavisuflebaze ras fiqrobT?
– visze, ruruaze, romelic saqveynod cnobili damnaSavea, rogorc iaraRis tarebisTvis, sxvadasxva kriminaluri istoriis organizebisTvis, aseve aSS-Si yalbi pasportiT mgzavrobisTvis? an meliaze ra unda vTqvaT, romelic saxalxod arRvevs prokuraturis ganaCens, arad agdebs da Seuracxyofas ayenebs xelisuflebas, kodeqss, sasamarTlos, mTel saxelmwifo institutebs. ra surT, yvelam kargad icis, magram visac rogor awyobs, iseT interpretacias ukeTebs am procesebs. cota ucnauria, politpatimari daarqva am or adamians, romlebic ufro gantevebis vacebs mogvagoneben. kacma ZaliT daapatimrebina Tavi, ratomRac ar SeSinebia cixeSi moxvedris. ra Tqma unda, axla arc ise rTulia es, radgan bolomdea miwesrigebuli penitenciuri sistema da ician, araferi emuqrebaT iq moxvedriT. adre msgavs risks vin gawevda, cixeSi jdoma politikuri niSniT moxvedrilebs ki ara, rigiT damnaSaveebsac ki sicocxlis fasad ujdebodaT. nawamebi, gaubedurebulebi gamodiodnen adamianebi sasjelis moxdis Semdeg. umravlesobas dRemde SSm piris statusi aqvs. am xalxs raze unda velaparakoT, aRar vici. Tanac, romc daTanxmdes xelisufleba amaT gamoSvebas, opozicia axal mizezs gamoigonebs, SeTanxmebis dokuments xeli rom ar moaweros.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– ai, magaliTad, ukve alaparakda `girCis~ warmomadgeneli. erT-erT interviuSi acxadebs, rom Turme moxda opoziciuri partiebis formireba, gamijvna, wevrebis gasvla-gamosvla da axlandeli poziciis formatSi dasafiqsireblad aucilebelia axali vadamdeli arCevnebis Catareba. rogorc xedavT, ukve wamovida axali talRa da axali mizezebi, romelic aSkarad TiTidan gamowovilia, qariSxali WiqaSi. da es im fonze, rodesac amerikis elCi ian keli acxadebs, saqarTvelo, romelsac hyavs damoukidebeli parlamenti, mTavroba – gvWirdeba natoSi da mxari dauWireTo. Cveni xelisufleba yvelaze axlos mivida rogorc evrokavSirTan, ise natosTan. swored am etapze gveZleva am did ojaxSi Sesvlis Sansi, sadac viqnebiT daculi rogorc politikuri, ise ekonomikuri ryevebisgan, amasTan, Tavs vigrZnobT damoukidebel, Tavisufal saxelmwifod.
– oponentebi rusuli politikis gamtareblad moixsenieben `qarTul ocnebas~. . .
– vin TamaSobs ruseTis TamaSs da vin asrulebs putinis brZanebebs Tu miTiTebebs, Zalian kargad gamoCnda. opoziciis destruqciuli nawili yvela xerxiT cdilobs dagvaSoros evrosabWos, natos, daasustos ekonomika da Seqmnas politikuri krizisi. pozneri rom ar yofiliyo, nebismier rus turists amoiCemebdnen, romelsac raRac minaweri eqneboda feisbuqze da mas mouwyobdnen saCvenebel aurzaurs, miT umetes, rom pozneri sruliadac ar aris ruseTis moqalaqe, aSS-is moqalaqea, Tan mas aranairi sasazRvro Tu sakomendanto kanoni ar daurRvevia.
– Tuki evropisken mivdivarT, ruseTis winaaRmdeg atexili xmauri ratom ar gvawyobs?
– imitom, rom isini aZleven am supersaxelmwifos saqarTvelos mimarT daZabulobis gaRrmavebis mizezs. maT awyobT, ruseTs miscen im toniT laparakis sababi, rogoriTac axla gvelaparakeboda. es ar aris qveynis sawinaaRmdego qmedeba?
– evroparlamentarebis arcTu Sefaruli muqara damafiqrebelia da am fonze imis Zieba, vin aris damnaSave da vis ekisreba pasuxismgebloba, cota uxerxulad xom ar geCvenebaT?
– evroparlamenti mxolod 7 wevrisgan ar Sedgeba, iq funqcionirebs sxvadasxva datvirTvis komitetebi, fraqciebi Tu komisiebi. iseve, rogorc xdeboda SevardnaZis Tu saakaSvilis dros, iq axlac arian deputatebi, romlebic garkveul partiebs da politikosebs lobireben: zogi `lelos~, zogi – `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~, sxva – `evropul saqarTvelos~. amaSi araferia kriminaluri, Cveulebrivi politikuri procesebia. amitom amaze nu gavakeTebT aqcents. Tu gaxsovT, SarSan mTeli ambavi rom atyda, TiTqos kongresmenma uari gviTxra sabuTebis miRebaze. daiwyes aJiotaJi: aSS aRar dagvexmareba da Segviwyvets dafinansebas, gaatarebs sanqciebso. msgavsi xom araferi momxdara? piriqiT, gaizarda daxmarebebis moculoba. is kongresmeni saakaSvils lobirebda da imitom aagora es xmauri. es iyo futuristuli lobizmi, romelmac gamoiwvia saerTo mRelvareba, magram ver miaRwies Tavisas da Sewyvites saubari.
– ki, magram evroparlamentarebis gancxadebebi yvelam movismineT.
– is iyo `nacionalTa~ lobistebis calkeuli gancxadebebi, sadac amboben, xelisufleba ar akeTebs araferso maSin rodesac xelisuflebam Riad datova parlamentis kari imaTTvis, vinc aSkara destruqciul procesebs awyobs. aqamde amtkiceben, xels ar movawerT aranair dokuments da arc arCevnebs vcnobT legitimurado. arada, amis dasabuTebas ver axerxeben, radgan ar gayalbebula.
– ra gamosavali arsebobs?
– gamosavali isev da isev saerTaSoriso organizaciebis CarTulobaSia. evrosabWos CvenTvis zurgi ar Seuqcevia, ambobs, gavuzrdiT saqarTvelos daxmarebebs da dRes qveyanas sWirdeba evropis da im saerTaSoriso organizaciebis mxarSi dgoma, romlebic daexmareba am problemebis moxsnaSio. maTi daxmarebiT, Cven mzad varT, nebismier dros gavagrZeloT opoziciur partiebTan dialogi, oRond maTi miTiuri wiTeli xazebis gareSe.
– ukve imdenjer gaimarTa es molaparakeba, aRaravis sjera SeTanxmebamde misvlis.
– amitomaa aucilebeli, rom am molaparakebebze movidnen met-naklebad konstruqciuli, gonieri da gamocdili politikosebi, romlebsac kargad esmiT, ra mdgomareobaSia qveyana da ara is xalxi, romlebic winaswar arian ganwyobilni, rom araviTari xelmowera da SeTanxmeba ar iqneba.
– rogorc viciT, arc erTi opoziciuri partiis warmomadgeneli ar modis aranair SeTanxmebaze manam, sanam ar dakmayofildeba maTi moTxovnebi. romel maTgans gulisxmobT konstruqciul politikosebi?
– aris xalxi, vinc ar eTanxmeba gaerTianebuli opoziciis aqtiur wevrebs, magram ver axerxebs Tavisi poziciis dafiqsirebas. isini amboben, aucilebelia parlamentSi Sesvla da im sakiTxebze muSaoba, rac dResdReobiT problemad miiCnevao, magram amaT ar uSveben molaparakebaze. arada, parlamenti swored is organoa, sadac unda xdebodes saproblemo sakiTxebze msjeloba. damoukideblobis dRidan, saqarTvelos ar hyolia amdeni opozicioneri parlamentSi.
es swored is raodenobaa, romelsac SeuZlia warmatebis miRweva, politikuri situaciis mTlianad Secvla, magram ratomRac es ar surT, raRac strategia aqvT amoCemebuli da gzidan gadaxvevas arc apireben. arc maT aqvT erToba. amitomac ar Sedian parlamentSi, radgan ician, ver gaiyofen Zalauflebas, Tanamdebobebs da prioritetebs.
– vis ekisreba am SemTxvevaSi pasuxismgebloba?
– Tuki ekonomikuri krizisi gamZafrdeba, me pirdapir davadeb xels opozicias, radgan destruqciuli qmedebebiT SehyavT qveyana CixSi da gamosavals ar gvitoveben. Tumca ara, arasworad vTqvi, opozicia ar eweva destruqcias, problemebs gviqmnis qveynis arakeTilmosurne adamianTa jgufi, romelic arad dagidevT Cvens momavals da keTildReobas. opoziciaa elisaSvili, magram Sevida parlamentSi, iseve rogorc CavleiSvili – umaRles sabWoSi. isini oponireben Cveulebriv reJimSi da asruleben sakuTar movaleobas. reziumes saxiT vityvi, rom Serigeba Zalian mniSvnelovania. qveynis sakanonmdeblo organoebis funqcionireba srulyofili ver iqneba opoziciis gareSe. amitom molaparakebebis magidas unda miusxdnen keTilgonieri adamianebi, isini, visTvisac pirvel planze sakuTari qveynis, Svilebis da momavlis interesebia.
