აკაკი ბერიძე: ცივილიზებული მსოფლიოსთვის მნიშვნელოვანია, რომ ოკუპაციას არსად ჰქონდეს გამამართლებელი მიზეზები და დამთავრდეს ყველგან
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israelsa da palestinas Soris bolo dReebis ganmavlobaSi situacia ukiduresad daZabulia. saraketo ieriSebi ar wydeba Razis seqtoridan, sapasuxo dartymebs agrZelebs israelic. samwuxarod, aris msxverpli. gaero mxareebs cecxlis Sewyvetisken mouwodebs. ra xdeba axlo aRmosavleTSi, am da sxva saintereso detalebiT `aWaris~ stumari Savi zRvis universitetis iuridiuli fakultetis leqtori, saerTaSoriso samarTlis specialisti akaki beriZea. aqve getyviT, respondentis pozicia ar asaxavs im organizaciebis Sexedulebebs, romelTanac is dakavSirebulia SromiTi urTierTobebiT.
– batono akaki, ramdenime dRea, axlo aRmosavleTi msoflios yuradRebis centrSia. ra xdeba israelsa da palestinas Soris?
– imisaTvis, rom dainteresebuli mkiTxvelisTvis ufro naTeli gaxdes mimdinare movlenebis genezisi, saWiroa visaubroT imaze, Tu saidan warmoiSva konfliqti. saerTaSoriso samarTali, romelic konfliqtebis daregulirebas exeba, upirvelesad, aqcents akeTebs mis gamomwvev meqanizmebze. magaliTad, dRes msoflioSi midis erT-erTi konfliqti mianmarSi muslimi rodiniis jgufis mimarT, romlis ara – erTaderTi, magram erT-erTi gamomwvevi mizezi aris klimatis cvlileba da mosaxleobis xelmisawvdomoba resursebze. israel-palestinis konfliqti aris msoflioSi unikaluri bevri mizezis gamo, is droSi yvelaze metad gawelilia, daaxloebiT, naxevar saukuneze metia grZeldeba da am konfliqtis gamomwvevi mizezia TiTqmis yvelaferi, rac konfliqtebs iwvevs danarCen msoflioSi: pretenziebi teritoriaze, bunebriv resursebze, religiuri Seuwynarebloba erTmaneTis mimarT da ase Semdeg. am konfliqts yvelaze metad aseve amZafrebs saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis araerTsaxovani damokidebuleba. rogorc konfliqtis mxareebs, aseve saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis wevrebs, ar gaaCniaT SemuSavebuli standarti aRniSnuli konfliqtis mosagvareblad. konfliqtis mTavari motivatori aris teritoria – aRmosavleT ierusalims, romelic moicavs qalaqis uZveles nawils wminda adgilebiT, palestinelebi TavianTi saxelmwifos momaval dedaqalaqad miiCneven maSin, rodesac israelma 1967 wlis e.w. eqvsdRiani omis Semdeg moaxdina am teritoriis okupacia, xolo 1980 wels gamoacxada sakuTar dedaqalaqad. israelis es qmedeba – aRmosavleT ierusalimis aneqsia arasdros yofila aRiarebuli gaerTianebuli erebis organizaciis (gaeros) mier. amasTan, gaeros uSiSroebis sabWos rezoluciebi da gaeros farglebSi moqmedi marTlmsajulebis saerTaSoriso sasamarTlo israelis mier aRmosavleT ierusalimis okupacias acxadebs ukanonod da ambobs, rom saerTaSoriso samarTlis mixedviT mas gamarTleba ar aqvs, vinaidan is ejaxeba gaeros mier `damkvirveblisa~ da `arawevr saxelmwifos~ poziciaze amaRlebul palestinis teritoriuli mTlianobisa da sazRvrebis urRvevobis princips. arsebobs sityvaTSeTanxmeba, romelsac xSirad iyenebs yvela media: `okupirebuli teritoria~. es definicia gansazRvravs, pirdapiri gagebiT, mTeli msoflios damokidebulebas da perspeqtivas konkretuli geografiuli adgilis mimarT. arsebuli konfliqti da, faqtobrivad, palestinis erovnuli gvardiis `hamasis~ mier ganuwyveteli ieriSebi aRmosavleT ierusalimis ganTavisuflebis moTxovniT, dRes da guSin ar dawyebula. es misia palestinis saxelmwifoebriobis amosavali wertilia. palestinelebis guliswyroma ufro metad gaaRviva donald trampis – aSS-is yofili prezidentis Zalian windauxedavma politikam. SeiZleba sxva eqspertebi ar meTanxmebodnen, magram me calsaxad mimaCnia, rom trampma igive Secdoma dauSva, nebsiT Tu uneblieT, rac buSis administraciam – kosovos aRiarebiT. miuxedavad imisa, rom kosovos aRiareba moinaTla gankurnebad gamoyofad (Remedial secession) da Sui Generis – sagamonakliso zomad, is mainc iyo saerTaSoriso samarTlis uxeSi darRveva, radgan kosovos aRiarebiT dairRva serbeTis, rogorc dedasaxelmwifos, teritoriuli mTlianoba.
– faqtia, rom `hamasi~ am dabombvebisTvis didi xani emzadeboda, rac israelisTvis SeumCneveli aRmoCnda. rogor fiqrobT, yuradReba moaduna israelma?
– israels yuradReba, Cemi azriT, arasdros aqvs modunebuli da misi biujeti da aSS-is finansuri mxardaWera pirdapir aisaxeba israelis Tavdacvisunarianobaze, ubralod, aq ufro swori iqneboda, Tu vityodiT, rom `hamasi~ mimdinare movlenebisTvis ufro momzadebuli aRmoCnda.
– ra mizans emsaxureba es brZola?
– dRes igive mizani aqvs palestinas – surs aRmosavleT ierusalimis gaTavisufleba da masze iurisdiqciis aRdgena. rogorc ukve giTxariT, prezidentma donald trampma ierusalimi aRiara israelis dedaqalad jer kidev 2017 wels. amerikis kongresSi bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi mzad iyo e.w. ierusalimSi aSS-is saelCos gadatanis aqti, romliTac kongresi TeTri saxlis administracias avaldebulebda aSS-is saelCos ierusalimSi gadatanas, Tumca sabWoTa kavSiris daSlis Semdeg Statebis yvela prezidenti axdenda am aqtis moqmedebis gadavadebas da amas asabuTebdnen rogorc konfliqtis daregulirebis, aseve, saxelmwifoebrivi interesis motiviT. trampis gancxadeba ierusalimis israelis dedaqalaqad aRiarebaze imiT iyo dramatuli da saerTaSoriso samarTlisaTvis Seusabamo, rom Tavis gancxadebaSi man miuTiTa, rom es iyo konfliqti israelsa da palestinelebs Soris da ara – palestinas, romelsac danarCeni msoflio saxelmwifoebriobis WrilSi ganixilavs. arada, es ewinaaRmdegeba gaeros midgomas, romelmac 2012 wels palestinis statusi aamaRla `damkvirveblidan~ `arawevr damkvirvebel saxelmwifomde~.
– israelis muslimi mosaxleoba palestinelebis mimarT solidarulia, ra gavlena SeiZleba iqonios am solidarobam?
– aq ufro religiuri faqtori aris win wamoweuli. muslimi mosaxleoba ara mxolod am geografiul arealSi, aramed msoflios masStabiT aris erTmaneTis mimarT solidaruli. SesaZloa, aman dadebiTi gavlena iqonios konfliqtis mogvarebaze, saerTo enis gamonaxvasa da saxalxo diplomatiis qmedunarianobaze.
– ras fiqrobT, ra pozicias daikavebs am konfliqtSi Statebi? sainteresoa erdoRanis survilic – samSvidobo ZalebiT CaerTon TurqeTi da ruseTi. . .
– aSS-s eqneba proebrauli pozicia, rac am konfliqtis dros hqonda uryevad. amas bevri mizezi aqvs: israelis strategiuli mdebareoba da aSS-is samxedro-strategiuli gaTvlebi axlo aRmosavleTSi da mosazRvre qveynebTan interesebi, aseve, ebrauli `lobi~, romelic warmodgenilia aSS-Si. mimaCnia, rom aSS ar Seicvlis pozicias da wminda saerTaSoriso samarTlis kuTxiT mainc israelis Tavdacvis uflebaze da mis kanonierebaze gaakeTebs aqcents. ruseTi da TurqeTi albaT ufro propalestinur pozicias daiWeren imitom, rom ruseTsac sWirdeba axlo aRmosavleTSi dasayrdeni samxedro strategiuli kuTxiT. TurqeTis pozicia, mgonia, rom ufro damoukidebeli TamaSia am bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi. TurqeTma damoukidebeli aqtoris roli Seasrula libiaSic, siriaSic, amitom, simarTle giTxraT, jer ar Cans, ra interesi amoZravebs erdoRans.
– dabolos, rogori dasasruli eqneba palestina-israelis konfliqts da ra molodini gaqvT, zavisa da SeTanxmebis pirobebi rogori iqneba?
– amis Tqma winaswar SeuZlebelia, Tumca mimaCnia, civilizebuli msofliosTvis mniSvnelovania, rom okupacias arsad hqondes gamamarTlebeli mizezebi da damTavrdes yvelgan. rasac aSS windauxedavi politikiT akeTebs israelSi da rac gaakeTa kosovoSi, igive gaakeTa ruseTma yirimsa da saqarTveloSi. faqtobrivad, orpolusiani msoflios pirobebSi saerTaSoriso samarTlis ZiriTadi principebi ubralo prozad rCeba da mas aRsrulebis meqanizmi ar gaaCnia. mimaCnia, rom gamosavali aris e.w. konfliqtis `orsaxelmwifoebrivi mogvarebis~ meqanizmi saerTaSoriso organizaciebis CarTviT. gaeros generalurma asambleam da uSiSroebis sabWom unda Tqvas Tavisi sityva, gaeros mier dadgenili rezoluciebis mixedviT unda moxdes teritoriuli davis mogvareba aRmosavleT ierusalimis nawilze palestinis sasargeblod, xolo israelma unda miiRos yvelanairi garantia, rom mis saxelmwifoebriobas arabuli qveynebis mxridan safrTxe ar daemuqreba. es iqneba albaT yvelaze racionaluri gamosavali, Tumca naklebad savaraudoa, rom es scenari amoqmeddes.
