მნიშვნელოვანია, დავინახოთ ცვლილებების აუცილებლობა
äïøï õëèåîòêò 593 50 82 69 –
bolo periodis movlenebi mravali aspeqtiTaa sayuradRebo: opoziciis nawili parlamentSi saqmianobas Seudga, nika melia sapatimrodan gaTavisuflda, opoziciis erToba, praqtikulad, daiSala, urTierTdapirispirebaa yofil Tanagundelebs Soris, rac mraval kiTxvas warmoSobs: ra xdeba opoziciur flangze? ra maxasiaTeblebiT gamoirCeva qarTuli politika? am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze pasuxis gacemas amjerad `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi lideri vaJa darCia Seecdeba.
– saqarTvelos saSinao politikaze visaubroT – ra aspeqtebs gamoyofT?
– 2020 wlis arCevnebis Semdeg saqarTveloSi politikuri viTareba ufro garTulda. es iyo arCevnebi, romelic bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi yvelaze mZime da daSorebuli iyo samarTlian, demokratiul garemos, Sesabamisad, opoziciam arCeul parlaments boikoti erTxmad gamoucxada, ramac qveyanaSi sakmaod mZime politikuri viTareba Seqmna. boikotma dRes konkretuli Sedegi ukve gamoiRo da dasavleli partniorebis Zalian didi ZalisxmeviT opoziciis ZiriTadi nawili parlamentSi Sevida, rac Zalian mniSvnelovania samomavlo stabilurobisTvis. dRes Sida politikis mTavari sakiTxi aris evrokavSiris mier SemoTavazebuli dRis wesrigis (prezident miSelis SeTanxmeba) maqsimalurad male aRsruleba, razec ZiriTadi pasuxismgebloba, ra Tqma unda, xelisuflebas ekisreba.
– dmanisSi ganviTarebul movlenebTan dakavSirebiT opozicia xelisuflebas adanaSaulebs, saubroben sxva saxelmwifos CarTulobazec. . .
– ra Tqma unda, xelisufleba aris mTavari pasuxismgebeli dmanisSi ganviTarebul movlenebTan dakavSirebiT, msgavs specifikur regionebs meti integrireba sWirdeba, Cven ki vxedavT, rom xelisuflebis maRalCinosnebi mTeli am procesebis ganmavlobaSi xazs usvamen azerbaijanlobas, rogorc eTnikur umciresobas. miuxedavad imisa, rom dmanisSi mcxovrebi azerbaijanelebi arian saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi, maT xelisufleba ar ganixilavs sakuTar moqalaqeebad da es damokidebuleba aCens ufskruls xelisuflebasa da sazogadoebas Soris. rac Seexeba sxva saxelmwifos CarTulobas, ra Tqma unda, Cvens qveyanaSi nebismieri saxis destabilizacia ruseTis wisqvilze asxams wyals da ar aris axali, amas kremli aqtiurad cdilobs mTlianad regionSi rbili ZaliT imoqmedos, es ki yvelaze didi safrTxea, magram xelisufleba ar cdilobs am safrTxis ganeitralebas, aramed nebsiT Tu uneblieT uqmnis placdarms dapirispirebis kerebisTvis.
– ar wydeba ganxilvebi opoziciis ZiriTadi nawilis parlamentSi SesvlasTan dakavSirebiT, xom ar daagviana opoziciam am nabijis gadadgma?
– mTliani opoziciis saxeliT me ver visaubreb, Tumca Tamamad SemiZlia imis Tqma, rom konkretulad Cveni gundi – `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ am procesebSi iyo yvelaze Tanmimdevruli Zala. Cven CaverTeT evrokavSiris mediaciiT warmoebul molaparakebebSi, sadac Tavidanve mkafiod gawerili iyo Cveni moTxovnebi. manam, sanam yvela Cveni moTxovna ar aisaxa dokumentSi, Cven ar gadavdgiT nabiji parlamentSi Sesasvlelad, es iyo CvenTvis mtkivneuli gadawyvetileba, gamomdinare iqidan, rom Cven xelisuflebam arCevnebze wagvarTva mandatebi rogorc saqarTvelos parlamentSi, aseve aWaris umaRles sabWoSi, miuxedavad amisa, SevediT parlamentSi da dasavlel partniorebTan erTad yvelafers gavakeTebT, rom Sesruldes Sarl miSelis dokumentSi warmodgenili punqtebi.
– leiboristTa liderma Salva naTelaSvilma gaakritika opozicia parlamentSi Sesvlis gamo da isic aRniSna, rom opozicias sulswrafoba rom ar gamoeCina, xelisufleba realur daTmobaze wavidoda.
– batoni Salva yovelTvis gamoirCeoda radikaluri gancxadebebiT da CvenTvis es gasakviri ar yofila. evropis sabWos prezidentis warmomadgenelma danielsonma xazgasmiT aRniSna, rom dokumenti, romelsac opoziciam xeli moawera, iyo bolo SemoTavazeba maTi mxridan – Tu es SemoTavazeba ar iqneboda xelmowerili, Cveni dasavleli partniorebi eTiSebodnen process, rac, ra Tqma unda, gaarTulebda Cvens samomavlo partniorobas da gaaCenda did kiTxviT niSans Cveni dasavluri integraciis kuTxiT. Sesabamisad, am dokumentze xelmowera iyo aucilebeli da sasicocxlod mniSvnelovani rogorc Sida politikis dastabilurebisTvis, aseve dasavleTTan Cveni samomavlo partniorobisTvis.
– xom ar fiqrobT, rom amJamad opozicia ufro Sida brZolebiTaa dakavebuli, vidre xelisuflebaze zewoliT, yovel SemTxvevaSi, eqspertebi acxadeben, rom opozicia daSorda xalxs. . .
– opoziciaSi arsebobs gansxvavebuli azrebi, rac sruliad bunebrivia. boikotma mkafiod dagvanaxa, rom konkretuli sakiTxis garSemo opozicias gaerTianeba SeuZlia, ramac gamoiRo konkretuli Sedegi da migviyvana SeTanxmebamde. rac Seexeba xalxTan daSorebis sakiTxs, es aris xelisuflebis ZiriTadi narativi da mTeli am procesebis ganmavlobaSi mkafiod gamoCnda `qarTuli ocnebis~ damokidebuleba xalxis mimarT, opoziciis parlamentSi Sesvla niSnavs xalxis xmas sakanonmdeblo organoSi, radgan ki vnaxeT rogorc gamoiyureboda `qarTuli ocnebis~ erTpartiuli parlamenti, romelic sruliad daclili iyo nebismieri saxis oponirebisgan.
– ase Tu ise, politikuri procesebi, ZiriTadad, parlamentSi inacvlebs, SeZlebs opozicia saparlamento tribuna xelisuflebaze zemoqmedebisTvis gamoiyenos Tundac mosaxleobis mxardaWeris TvalsazrisiT?
– ra Tqma unda, rogorc ukve aRvniSne, opoziciis parlamentSi Sesvla aris erTgvari garantia imisa, rom xelisufleba iqneba aqtiuri monitoringis qveS, miT umetes, rom `lelom~ ukve Seqmna saparlamento fraqcia damoukidebel deputatebTan erTad, rac parlamentis reglamentis Tanaxmad iZleva damatebiT SesaZleblobas da aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs mouwevT, upasuxon yvela im kiTxvas, romelic sazogadoebas awuxebs. `lelo~ apirebs aqtiurad gamoiyenos es SesaZlebloba da interpelaciis wesiT daibaros parlamentSi yvela is piri, visTanac arsebobs pasuxgaucemeli kiTxvebi sxvadasxva sakiTxze, iqneba es Sinagan saqmeTa ministri, ekonomikis ministri Tu sxva.
– rogorc viciT, adgilobrivi arCevnebi, garkveulwilad, referendumi iqneba riggareSe arCevnebis Catarebaze, SeZlebs opozicia jamSi 58 procentis aRebas?
– arCevnebis Semdeg `qarTul ocnebas~ mZime politikuri realoba udgas, partia datova damfuZnebelma biZina ivaniSvilma, Semdeg wavida premieri gaxaria, gadadga parlamentis Tavmjdomarec, aseve kiTxvis niSnis qveS dgas Tbilisis amJamindeli meris sakiTxic – miiRebs Tu ara is monawileobas arCevnebSi. es, ra Tqma unda, imoqmedebs `qarTuli ocnebis~ eleqtoratze, garda amisa, gvaqvs mZime ekonomikuri krizisi, gazrdili fasebi, Cavardnili vaqcinaciis procesi. . . es yvelaferi miuTiTebs imaze, rom `qarTuli ocnebis~ amomrCevlebis raodenoba iklebs. swored amitom mniSvnelovania, opoziciam sworad daanaxos sazogadoebas cvlilebebis aucilebloba da TviTmarTvelobis arCevnebis mniSvneloba, is mniSvneloba, romelic opoziciam uzarmazari brZoliT moipova da aqcia erTgvar referendumad. yvelafer amis gaTvaliswinebiT, vfiqrob, rom 2022 wels vadamdeli arCevnebi Cvens qveyanaSi Catardeba da qveyana miiRebs dabalansebul koaliciur mTavrobas, rac realurad qarTveli amomrCevlis dakveTaa.
– opoziciur flangze vxedavT garkveul gadaadgilebebs, ramdenad miiRweva adgilobriv arCevnebSi opoziciis gaerTianeba erT saarCevno blokad? moqmed politikur Zalebs Soris xedavT iseT gunds, romelic SeiZleba mesame Zalad mogvevlinos?
– TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebis mniSvnelobaze ukve bevri visaubre da aRar davubrundebi, Tumca, ra Tqma unda, mniSvnelovania strategia – rogor gegmavs opozicia am did brZolaSi CarTvas. vfiqrob, rom koordinacia iqneba aucilebeli, Tumca erTi saarCevno blokis wardgenis idea namdvilad ar momwons, partiebma Tavisi identoba maqsimalurad unda warmoaCinon da arCevnebi amisi mTavari saSualebaa, vTvli, rom, yvela regionSi mniSvnelovani iqneba maJoritarul olqebze SeTanxmeba, iseve, rogorc es moxda 2020 wlis arCevnebze TbilisSi. mimaCnia, rom es iqneba mTavari sakiTxi am mimarTulebiT. Tu amas ver SevZlebT, rTuli iqneba gamarjvebamde misvla. imeds vitoveb, rom ZiriTadi opozicia moaxerxebs am sakiTxis garSemo maqsimalur koordinacias. rac Seexeba mesame Zalas, `lelo~ daarsebis dRidanve acxadebs, rom arCeuli aqvs es gza. orpolusianoba rom am qveynis erT-erTi mTavari problemaa, TiTqmis yvela arCevnebiT dasturdeba. is fraqcia, romelic `lelom~ parlamentSi Seqmna, aris erTgvari dasawyisi mesame politikuri centris Camoyalibebisa.
– rogor fiqrobT, ratom aWianurebs giorgi gaxaria partiis Seqmnas?
– giorgi gaxariam ukve daaanonsa partiis Camoyalibeba da es mxolod drois sakiTxia. am procesis gaWianureba ganpirobebulia mimdinare politikuri procesebiT. is elodeba saerTo suraTs, kandidatebis gamoCenas da vTvli, rom swored amis Semdeg gadadgams konkretul nabijebs.
– ras fiqrobT levan vasaZis mier daanonsebul partiis Seqmnaze? da aqve – gaxariasa da vasaZis partiebi vis waarTmeven xmebs, xelisuflebas Tu opozicias?
– levan vasaZis politikuri gaaqtiureba drois sakiTxi iyo da amis molodini procesebSi CarTul adamianebs araerTi welia gvaqvs. misi ultramemarjvene, konservatoruli ideebi da damokidebuleba ruseTis mimarT, ra Tqma unda, gvafiqrebinebs, rom is aris morigi rusuli proeqti. SegaxsenebT, rom is dResac ruseTSi moRvaweobs da aris im qveynis moqalaqe. amiT yvelaferia naTqvami. rac Seexeba eleqtorats, saqarTveloSi arseboben adamianebi, romlebic xsnas ruseTSi xedaven da amis gamovlineba iyo `patriotTa aliansi~, romelic, SeiZleba iTqvas, rom arCevnebis Semdeg daiSala da am niSis daWeras, rogorc Cans, levan vasaZe apirebs… ar gamovricxav kolaboracias `patriotTa alianssa~ da levan vasaZis partias Soris. giorgi gaxarias rac Seexeba, misi eleqtorati iqneba ocnebis Zveli amomrCeveli, adamianebi, romlebmac mxari `qarTul ocnebas~ swored misi faqtoris gamo dauWires. SeiZleba man mcire dasayrdeni ipovos, e.w. gadauwyvetel amomrCevelSic, magram is 52%, romelmac 2020 wlis arCevnebze mxari dauWira opozicias, ra Tqma unda, Zneli warmosadgenia, samomavlod mxari dauWiros giorgi gaxarias. Sesabamisad, misi politikur arenaze gamosvla yvelaze metad `qarTul ocnebas~ daazaralebs, Tumca safuZvliani eWvi da gancda imisa, rom is SeiZleba iyos axali opozicia, romelzec batoni biZina ivaniSvili Tavis cnobil werilSi saubrobda, ra Tqma unda, arsebobs. yvelafers dro gviCvenebs. gza, romelsac gaxaria da misi gundi airCevs, iqneba erTgvari pasuxi yvela im kiTxvaze, romlebic dRes mis mimarT arsebobs.
– aqtiurdeba saakaSvilis Temac. Tqveni azriT, xelisufleba gamoiyenebs mas saTavisod?
– ra Tqma unda, orpolusianobis problema dRemde didi mniSvnelobisaa da yoveli arCevnebis win ufro did datvirTvas iRebs qarTul politikaSi, rasac xels uwyobs saakaSvilis gancxadebebic CamosvlasTan dakavSirebiT. `ocneba~ isev aqtiurad ecdeba am Temis saTavisod gamoyenebas. swored amitom aris mesame, mZlavri politikuri centris Camoyalibeba aucilebeli da amis yvelaze didi resursi vTvli, rom dRes swored `lelos~ gaaCnia.
– advokati valeri gelbaxiani acxadebs, ajobebs, opoziciam parlamentSi antikorufciuli komisia Seqmnaso. . .
– Cveni partia am mimarTulebiT daarsebidanve muSaobda, partiaSi arsebobs antikorufciuli jgufi, romelic aqtiuradaa CarTuli xelisuflebis monitoringis procesSi nebismieri mimarTulebiT. gemaxsovrebaT `lelos~ araerTi brifingi `qarTuli ocnebis~ warmomadgenlebis korufciul saqmianobasTan dakavSirebiT. am mxriv aseve did rols iTamaSebs Cveni axalSeqmnili saparlamento fraqciac, romelsac meti berketi gaaCnia yvela saxelmwifo institutis kontrolisTvis.
– `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ ukve parlamentSi saqmianobs, mokle da grZelvadian perspeqtivaSi ra mizani daisaxa?
– Cveni amocana saqarTvelos parlamentSi ra Tqma unda, aris prezident Sarl miSelis dokumentis sisruleSi moyvana, romelzec Cven pasuxismgebloba gvaqvs aRebuli. `lelo~ saqarTvelos parlamentSi niSnavs opozicias, romelic svams kiTxvebs, rac awuxebs sazogadoebas, xalxs, romelic dRes dgas uamravi gamowvevis winaSe. aucilebelia am gamowvevebze parlamentis tribunidan saubari.
– saqarTveloSi Semodgoma yovelTvis rTuli iyo xelisuflebisTvis. ras unda velodoT?
– saqarTvelos wels gansakuTrebulad cxeli politikuri Semodgoma elodeba – gvaqvs arCevnebi, romelmac unda gansazRvros am qveynis xvalindeli dRe, vapirebT Tu ara, gadavdgaT nabijebi win, Tu vapirebT trials dausrulebel wreze, es aris kiTxva, romelic TiToeulma moqalaqem unda dausvas sakuTar Tavs. masze ra Tqma unda, calsaxa pasuxi arsebobs, romelic SeiZleba moitanos samarTlian da demokratiul garemoSi Catarebulma vadamdelma saparlamento arCevnebma. es pasuxia cvlileba, romelic ase sWirdeba dRes saqarTvelos da qarTuli sazogadoeba aucileblad moitans am cvlilebebs arCevnebis gziT.
