,,დადგება თვითმმართველობის არჩევნები და რა შედეგსაც მიიღებს ყოფილი პრემიერი, ყველა ერთად ვნახავთ”
òîèï úåúõäïûå 27 48 93 –
isev daZabulobaa saqarTvelos politikur velze. `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ parlamentSi Sesvlis gadawyvetilebas da Sarl miSelis dokumentis xelmoweraze uaris Tqmas daemata xalxSi popularuli yofili premieris mier axali politikuri partiis Camoyalibeba, ramac aRSfoTeba gmoiwvia danarCen politikosebSi.
analitikosi daviT qarTveliSvili giorgi gaxarias TanagundelebTan dakavSirebiT socialur qsel `feisbukSi~ Semdegi Sinaarsis posts aqveynebs: `principSi, ratom unda viyo uryevi CemTvis Tundac daujerebeli ambebis uaryofaSi, rodesac giorgi gaxarias partiis “marjvena~ da `marcxena~ kidurebi saakaSvilTan da kezeraSvilTan odesRac daaxloebuli imdroindeli maRalCinosnebi arian. erT-erTi maTganis mimarT mwvave SekiTxvebic davsvi, Tumca pasuxis miRebaze miniSnebac ver miviRe. ase rom, Tu partia `saqarTvelosTvis~ dafinansebis wyaro kezeraSvilis finansuri piramidaa – igi yars, mas qarTuli sisxliTa da cremliT qmnida. awi Tavad amtkicon, vin arian da ra undaT~.
Tu ra xdeba aWaraSi, ras fiqroben am sakiTxebze, ras apireben TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi da raSi xedaven gamosavals, amaze saubrobs `aWarasTan~ interviuSi aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputati nadim varSaniZe.
– batono nadim, rogor SeafasebdiT saqarTvelos politikur sivrceSi warmoqnil kriziss?
– politika, zogadad, rTuli fenomenia da xSirad warmoqmnis rTul, erTi SexedviT Zalian daqsaqsul situaciebs, politikosobis arsi ki swored am viTarebis ganmuxtvaSi mdgomareobs. erTi mxriv, pozicia cdilobs arsebuli krizisis daZlevas, xolo opozicia (aq ar vgulisxmob destruqciul Zalebs) naxulobs, amzeurebs da aSiSvlebs im xarvezebs, rac TavisTavad warmoiqmneba qveynis mmarTvelobis periodSi. demokratiuli wyoba swored amas gulisxmobs da gaTvlilia pirovnebis da zogadad, sazogadoebis pirovnul Tavisuflebasa da arCevanis uflebaze. am dros Zalian negatiur gavlenas axdens mosaxleobaze is destruqcia, romelsac axorcieleben yofili xelisuflebis beladis mimdevrebi. piradad me vTvli, rom saqarTveloSi araviTari politikuri krizisi ar aris, ubralod, mTeli kacobrioba aRmoCnda pandemiis tyveobaSi da Cveni qveyanac, samwuxarod, ar aris gamonaklisi. imis miuxedavad, rom msoflio pandemias daemTxva saparlamento arCevnebi, romelic problemurad miiCnia opoziciam, Cveni megobrebis, evrokomisiis wevrTa daxmarebiT, SevZeliT gadagvelaxa `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ TaosnobiT zedized warmoqnili winaRobebi da sabolood davamtkiceT, rom aranairi gayalbeba ar yofila da arc tyuilubralod vdevniT vinmes, vgulisxmob politikur patimrebs.
– politikuri krizisis Sesaxeb eqspertebi saubroben. . .
– politikur krizisad Tvlian zogierTi politikuri partiis radikalur qmedebebs, rac dasavleTis politikur wreebSi iwvevs Cveni qveynisadmi nihilistur ganwyobas. samwuxarod, opozicionerad Seracxuli rigi politikosebi ase ar Tvlian da sworad miaCniaT is destruqcia, romelsac niRbaven `qveynis gadarCenis mcdelobiT~. isini arad dagideven, ra zians ayeneben patara saqarTvelos saerTaSoriso imijs da sargebloben mxardamWerTa mcire nawilis gulubryvilobiT. ise ureven faqtebs, cifrebs, movlenebs, rom erTi SexedviT gaugebaria, ra dgas yovelive amis ukan da ras gulisxmoben, Tumca isicaa, rom sasurvel Sedegebs iReben da amiTac kmayofildebian. isini Wiqa wyalSi qariSxlis datrialebis didostatebi arian, magram Cveni xalxi brZenia da ukve karga xania iswavla Savis TeTrisgan garCeva, rasac daadasturebs kidec moaxloebul TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebze, saarCevno yuTebTan.
– `erTianma nacionalurma moZraobam~, rogorc iqna, gadawyvita sakanonmdeblo organoebSi Sesvla, Tumca xels ar awers miSelis dokuments. rogor fiqrobT, es ra Sedegs gamoiwvevs samomavlod da vis daekisreba pasuxismgebloba?
– pasuxismgebloba daekisreba im mxares, romelic ugulebelyofs am xelmoweras. `qarTulma ocnebam~ isedac bevri daTmo da gadaxaza wiTeli xazebi, romelic xelSeuxeblad miaCnda. es gakeTda qveynis momavlis sakeTildReod. ras vawydebiT meore mxares, im adamianebisgan, romelTa kaprizic dakmayofilda da giraoc ki gadaaxdevines dasavlel megobrebs, raTa melia politpatimrad SeeracxaT? Tavad ar gamoiCines pativiscema da ugulebelyves evrokomisiis mier Sedgenili dokumenti. aq araferia samarCielo, yvelam kargad dainaxa, ra tipis politikosebTan gvaqvs saqme da isic gamoCnda, rogori adamianebis mmarTvelobis qveS imyofeboda qarTveli xalxi. `nacionalebma~ sxva opoziciuri partiebic Seacdines da sruliadac ar apirebdnen parlamentSi Semosvlas, surdaT quCidan emarTaT situacia. 2003 wlidan moyolebuli, marTlac quCis politikosebi arian. sxva gza, samarTali da demokratia arc ki esmiT ra aris. isini ar elodnen, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ SeZlebda situaciis sxvagvarad Semotrialebas da mTel msoflios daanaxebda sakuTar simarTles.
– `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebi amtkiceben, rom swored maTi mmarTvelobis dros amoisunTqa saqarTvelom.
– ra gaakeTes? araferi Rirebuli ar SeuqmniaT qveynisTvis. Rirebulad ar mimaCnia anbanis koSki Tu kvercxebze Semomdgari lastebi. erisTvis umniSvnelovanesia sulieri faseulobebis damkvidreba, demokratiuli Rirebulebebi da tradiciulis SenarCuneba. ra gaakeTes maT? represiebi moawyves, `CarecxilTa~ Taoba gamoacxades da klanuri mmarTveloba daaweses, romelsac erTi adamiani diriJorobda. qarTuli saxelmwifoebriobis udidesi kultura kinaRam daasamares. 2012 weli rom ara, aravin icis, dRes vin viqnebodiT da ramdeni davrCebodiT. cixeebi gavsebuli iyo udanaSaulo adamianebiT, xolo iq rasac akeTebdnen, yvelam kargad icis. amis miuxedavad, mainc vapatieT, kohabitaciis procesi warvmarTeT, maT ki erisTvis am Znelbedobis pandemiis periodSi aseTi destruqcia moawyves.
– rogorc vxedav, Tqven maincdamainc ar miesalmebiT `nacionalebis~ sakanonmdeblo organoebSi Semosvlas?
– kargad Tqva erTma Cvenma deputatma `axla gind gaitaneT da gind SemoitaneT esenio. . . ai, am frazas namdvilad veTanxmebi. isic vici, Semovidnen axla mxolod imisTvis, rom Segviqmnan diskomforti, moawyon Souebi, risi didostatebic arian da farisevluri, mamxilebeli gamosvlebi. eg yvelaferi ukve gaviareT, magram radgan am adamianebs hyavs Tavisi amomrCeveli, Cven, upirveles yovlisa, swored maT vcemT pativs da vTmobT yvelanair protests. sakanonmdeblo organoSi sazogadoebis sul mcire nawilis gansxvavebuli azric ki unda iyos warmodgenili. es aris Tavisufleba da es aris demokratia. Cven vdgavarT saxelmwifo interesebis sadarajoze, amitom vakeTebT imas, rac qarTuli konstituciiT, kanoniTaa gawerili. `qarTuli ocneba~ araerT daTmobaze wavida Tavisi arsebobis ganmavlobaSi. yvelaferi dafiqsirebulia, ar mogvigonia. evrokomisia umtkicebda, rom Sarl miSelis dokumentze xelmouwerloba damazianebeli iqneba qarTuli saxelmwifosTvis, maTive momxreebi eubnebodnen amas, magram rogorc xedavT, es ar aris `nacionalebisTvis~ argumenti, maTTvis saqarTvelo aris – kievSi Camjdari miSa! ra ambavi atexes melias gamoSvebaze, Tavad ar naxeT? sanam iman iqidan ar darTo neba, manam ver gamovida kaci sapatimrodan.
– evrokomisiis mier giraos gadaxdam daadastura, rom melia marTlac politpatimari iyo?
– ara, piriqiT, daadastura, rom rigiTi samarTladamrRvevia. politpatimars giraos ar uwesebs sasamarTlo da arc evrokomisia ixdis am fuls, ubralod, ayenebs sakiTxs da ise uSveben sapatimrodan politikurad devnilebs. swored amitom ar ixdidnen `nacionalebi~ am fuls, iuridiulad rom ar eRiarebinaT brali. giraos gadaxda ki adasturebs mis braleulobas, uSveben droebiT gareT, magram procesi grZeldeba.
– radgan meliaze Camovarda sityva, isic vTqvaT, misi dapatimrebis winaaRmdeg gamosvlis Semdeg datova partiac da postic gaxariam. . .
– gaxaria vin iyo? `qarTuli ocnebis~ rigiTi wevri, romelic wina planze swored Cvenma partiam wamoswia da codnis gamomJRvanebis saSualeba misca. misi Zalaufleba da wesrigis damyarebis mcdeloba, am partiis TanadgomiT Sedga da yvelaferi es erT kacs mieweros, sxva rom araferi, cota uxerxulia. kovidsituacia sworad warmarTa gaxariamo, rom amboben, ki batono, warmarTa, magram visTan erTad? kargad awyobili, erT meqanizmad Sekruli saxelmwifos instituciebi da struqturebi muSaobdnen xarvezis gareSe da amiT SevZeliT kovidis marTvis unikaluri sistemis Seqmna, romelmac iseTi Sedegi mogvca, msoflios wamyvani qveynebi daainteresa. 10-wliani mmarTvelobis periodSi `qarTuli ocneba~ Zireulad daixvewa da gaxariac mohyva warmatebis am talRas.
– Tqven TvliT, rom marto darCenili gaxaria TavisTavad arafers warmoadgens?
– amas me ar vityvi, cifrebi daadasturebs, dadgeba TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi da ra Sedegsac miiRebs yofili premieri, yvela erTad vnaxavT. Tqven ambobT: gaxaria da `qarTuli ocneba~. me vambob: `qarTuli ocneba~ da gaxaria. marto kaci WamaSiac braliao, brZolis velze – miT umetes. mmarTvelobis Cveneuli sistema Cvenma gundma Camoayaliba, maT Soris, piradad mec mimiZRvis wvlili da garwmunebT, yvela erTad, Tavwaxrili vmuSaobdiT, raTa qveyana gadagverCina msoflio pandemiisgan. ra dReSia aSS, didi britaneTi, indoeTi, TurqeTi, ramdeni adamianis sicocxle imsxverpla am unkurnebelma senma. vaqcinaciac ramden problemas qmnis, kargad xedavT da am dros xelis SeSla da politikur avanscenaze TamaSi, ar unda CaiTvalos patriotizmad.
– adgilobriv TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi rom ver miiRoT 43%, dainiSneba vadamdeli saparlamento arCevnebi?
– es gamoricxulia, vgulisxmob rom aucileblad miviRebT araTu 43%-s, 50%-ze metsac. vis xedavT ufro Rirseuls, vin gaakeTa qveynisTvis amdeni saqme erTad? `qarTuli ocneba~ aris kargad awyobili gundi, romelic xalxisTvis muSaobs da sazogadoebis azris gaTvaliswinebiT marTavs qveyanas.
– ra migaCniaT `qarTuli ocnebis~ naklad?
– simarTle giTxraT, erTaderTi nakli, rac gvaqvs, isaa, rom piari ar gvaqvs saTanado, magram esec imiTaa gamowveuli, rom sikeTis keTebas ar sWirdeba laparaki. saxelmwifo saqmeebis keTeba Cveni samsaxuria da misi kargad Sesruleba, ar aris aucilebeli, cxrajer mivawodoT sazogadoebas. amis ostati saakaSvili iyo, erT patara sawarmos aTjer xsnida da isic zarzeimiT.
– ra problema awuxebs xalxs aWaraSi?
– is, rac mTel msoflios – pandemia da aqedan gamowveuli umuSevroba, siRaribe, inflacia anu ekonomikuri siduxWire. cxadia, meti socialuri da jandacvis programebi unda avamoqmedoT, met adamians davexmaroT da meti samuSao adgilebi SevqmnaT. amisTvis sakmaod kargi programebia amoqmedebuli soflis meurneobaSi, rogorc xvna-Tesvis, ise eqstenciis, ufasod teqnikis, Sesawamli nivTierebebis, nergebis, CiTilebis darigebis da a.S. gansakuTrebuli yuradReba eTmoba maRalmTian regionebSi profesiuli ganaTlebis danergvas da kolejebis amoqmedebas, raTa mTieli damagrdes mTaSi da dasaqmdes, rogorc soflis, ise jandacvis da turizmis kuTxiT.
SemiZlia CamovTvalo yvelaferi is, rac `qarTulma ocnebam~ gaakeTa, magram am interviuSi ver CavatevT. amitom, vTxov Cvens mkiTxvels, gaixed-gamoixedos, dainaxos ra iyo da ra aris dRes da mxolod amis gaazrebis Semdeg mivides saarCevno yuTTan, sadac sam-oTx TveSi qveynis bedi gadawydeba.