ქართული პოლიტიკური რეალობა – ჯონდი ბაღათურიას თვალით
òîèï úåúõäïûå 27 48 93 –
gTavazobT intervius politikossa da ekonomist jondi baRaTuriasTan, romelic `aWarasTan~ interviuSi ganixilavs qveyanaSi mimdinare politikur procesebs da saubrobs sakuTari partiis gegmebze.
– batono jondi, rogor SeafasebT qarTul politikur realobas?
– amJamad politikuri sivrce monopolizebuli aqvs or partias, rasac ganapirobebs resursebi da ara – reitingi. isini floben finansebs, totalurad akontroleben medias da erovnuli, saxelmwifoebrivad mniSvnelovani azri, romelic ar Seesabameba maT interesebs, ubralod, ar Suqdeba.
– iqneb es sazogadoebis SekveTaa?
– merwmuneT, qarTuli sazogadoebis ZiriTadi slogani dRes aris `saqarTvelo `ocnebis~ da `nacionalebis~ gareSe!~. aris uamravi Tema, romelic am or centralur dajgufebasTan winaaRmdegobaSi modis, magram qveynisTvis sakeTildReoa, Tumca centralur mediaSi es Temebi ikrZaleba.
– socialur qsels vinRa akontrolebs? visac azris an ideis gamoxatva surs, kargad axerxebs. . .
– es ki, socialur qselSi ver krZalaven, magram aqedan naklebad aRiqmeba ZiriTadi informacia. monstri televiziebis erTi naxevari `qarTuli ocnebisaa~, meore – `nacionaluri moZraobis~. imis miuxedavad, rom dapirispirebulebi arian, absoluturad erTnairi interesebi aqvT, romlis 90% antisaxelmwifoebrivia.
– sakmaod zogadad saubrobT, iqneb dagvizustoT?
– amaTi kinklaoba Teatralizebuli xdeba, magaliTad, mandatebis gamo, vis ramdeni unda hqondes, romeli komitetis Tavmjdomare visi kaci unda iyos, fuli rogor iSovon romeliRac biznesidan. roca gamodixar da iTxov Sromis kodeqsis reformas, ambob, rom Tqveni naTesavebis garda sxvasac aqvs Sromis, dasaqmebis ufleba, es ar Suqdeba, an rodesac aprotesteb saqarTvelos gayidvis faqts… erTma daviT-gareji gayida, meorem – rionis xeoba. ver xedavT, ra xdeba? amiT minda vTqva, rom gansxvavebuli azris tiraJirebisTvis sainformacio velSi adgili ar aris. SeiZleba raRac monakveTi gauSvan Tvalis axvevis mizniT. magaliTad, Cems aqtivobebs aSuqeben, magram araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar Cagsvamen praim-taimSi, SuadRis gadacemaSi. 30-wamian dros mogcemen, romelic ise gairbens, Tavad ver vxvdebi, ra vTqvi.
– marTlac daikargeT. . .
– me wasuli viyavi, magram es aq arafer SuaSia. presaSi ainteresebT mxolod is, vinc an sisuleles ambobs, an naZirlobaze awers xels, anac moRalatea. amdeni welia movdivar da msgavss ver vikadreb. azrianad miwodebuli gansxvavebuli datvirTvis informacia da Tvalsazrisi ki amaT ar surT.
– am etapze ra politikuri aqtivobebi gaqvT dagegmili, apirebT Tu ara TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi monawileobas da opoziciasTan blokis Sekvras?
– umZimesi da araTanabari mdgomareobis miuxedavad, TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi monawileobas vapirebT. rac Seexeba blokis Sekvras, es Cvenze ar aris damokidebuli. bevri vilaparake, rom or partias aqvs monopolizebuli politikuri sivrce, magram Cvenc gvaqvs valdebuleba saqarTvelos da qarTveli xalxis winaSe. erovnulma da progresulad moazrovne politikurma Zalebma, verc arCevnebis win da verc Semdeg, ver SevTavazeT saqarTvelos `qarTuli ocnebis~ da `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ alternativa, Zala ver SevqmeniT. Zalian mcdari mosazrebaa, rodesac viRacas hgonia, rom `kai biWia~ da amis gamo xmas miscemen. Cven gvaqvs reitingi, magram ar gvaqvs Zala. cxadia, kunTebs ar vgulisxmob. verc erT saxelmwifoebrivad moazrovne politikoss Tavisi saTqmeli ver miaqvs amomrCevlamde. es imitom ki ara, rom inteleqti ar aqvs, elementarulad, resursebi ar gaaCnia, hoda, amomrCevelic irCevs imas, rasac aubrWyvialeben. arada, yvelaferi, rac brWyvialebs, oqro ar aris. adamiani amas gvian xvdeba – xelT nagavi rom SerCeba.
– fiqrobT, rom qarTveli amomrCeveli oqros nagvisgan ver arCevs?
– es ar aris misi brali, Cveni bralia, radgan ver vaxerxebT swori politikis miwodebas. axla varT realobas mowyvetili, araadekvaturi, ambiciuri politikosebis garemocvaSi, romlebsac hgoniaT, rom frTaSesxmuli angelozebi Tu ara, naklebic ar arian. maT hgoniaT, oRond raime Tqvan, sakmarisia da xalxi airCevs. ar airCevs!
– jer TqviT, rom amomrCeveli `abrWyvialebul~ politikosebs etanebao, axla sapirispiros amtkicebT. cotaTi davibeni…
– Tavidan Secdnen, rodesac oqros brWyvialma Tvali mostaca qarTvelobas, magram axla ukve gaarkvies, vin ra da rogoria, ase rom, meoTxed aRaravin motyuvdeba.
– rogorc neitralurma politikosma, scadeT arCevnebis prognozireba. SeZlebs Tu ara `qarTuli ocneba~ sakmarisi xmebis mogrovebas, raTa ar dauSvas miSelis dokumentiT dadasturebuli vadamdeli arCevnebi?
– neitralur politikosad am SemTxvevaSi ver gamovdgebi, magram gavimeoreb – orive aris antisaxelmwifoebrivi Zala, romelmac qveyana gakotrebis piras miiyvana. am etapze saqarTveloc da misi mosaxleobac valebSi ixrCoba, radgan bolo 18 welia, iseTi parlamenti gvyavs, romelic fulSi ixrCoba. fulis keTebis garda, arafriT aris dakavebuli. Tu `qarTulma ocnebam~ seriozuli rebrendingi ar ganaxorciela, ar Secvala fasadi mainc, arsebuli liderebi saarCevno process ver gauZleben.
– politikur vels ukve axali moTamaSeebi Seematnen: xazaraZe, gaxaria…
– xazaraZem moaxerxa da Tu vinme antireitingiani iyo, yvela TavisTan moaquCa, ase vTqvaT, qarTuli politikuri sivrcis sanitris roli Seasrula. me mamukasTan kargi piradi urTierToba maqvs, Zalian Wkviani kacia, pativs vcem, magram rogor moaxerxa im xalxis Sekreba, ers da bers rom sZuls, ver gamigia. aseTi gundiT Sors ver wava. didi balasti hyavs, CamoSoreba gauWirdeba. rac Seexeba gaxarias, `qarTuli ocnebisTvis~ Zalian saxifaTod SemoiWra saarCevno sivrceSi. mmarTveli gundi ararealurad pasuxobs am svlas. araadekvaturi braldebebi ismis. nuTu aravin hyavT, rom daakvalianos kobaxiZe? imis Tqma, rom 20 ivnisi gaxarias bralia, sruli uazrobaa.
– gaxariaze ras ityviT?
– mTlad kargad ar var ganwyobili, uamravi SekiTxva maqvs masTan, magram narkotikebis sawinaaRmdego operacia sastiki iyo an parlamentSi brbos SemoWris mcdeloba gaumarTlebeli sisastikiT SeaCerao, rom acxadebs kobaxiZe, xval ar unda vinmem daicvas? amJamindeli Ss ministri ar dafiqrdeba, sanam raime qmedebas dagegmavs, gaxarias bedi rom ar gaiziaros?
– Tqven bevr Temas SeexeT, magram gverdi auareT Tqveneul prognozs.
– jer prognozirebas veravin SeZlebs, radgan yovel wuTSi diametriulad icvleba yvelaferi. erTaderTs vityvi – CavamTavrebT Semodgomaze TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebs da gazafxulze dainiSneba saparlamento arCevnebi. iseTi siCqariT midis `qarTuli ocneba~ katastrofisken, rom 43%-is aRebas ver SeZlebs. iseT raRacebs laparakoben pirdapiri eTeridan, rom msgavsi arsad wamikiTxavs da arc gamigonia.
– qarTuli politika yovelTvis iyo aRsavse ucnaurobebiT, Tundac melias istoria rad Rirs an evroparlamentarebis mier gacemuli girao. . .
– es yvelaze damamcirebeli, samarcxvino aqti iyo Cveni saxelmwifosTvis. es iyo mifurTxeba qveynis suverenitetis, sazogadoebis da qarTuli marTlmsajulebis sistemisTvis. rasac bolo wlebSi vxedavT, Tavis moWraa. yovelive amis avtori ki swored `qarTuli ocnebaa~ `nacionalur moZraobasTan~ erTad, tyupis calebiviT hgvanan erTmaneTs.
– amitom toveben liderebi maT rigebs?
– imitom ara, rom gvanan, sakuTari adgilis dasamkvidreblad ibrZvian. sasixarulo iqneboda, piradi gamorCenisTvis ki ara, RirsebisTvis, principisTvis datovon am partiebis rigebi… parlamentSi Seiqmna Sarl miSelis fraqcia? esec samarcxvinod mimaCnia, es yvelaferi qveynis parlamentSi xdeba, romelic yvelaze meti Rirsebis mqone, sazogadoebisTvis Suquris rolis Semsrulebeli unda iyos.
– erT-erT interviuSi ganacxadeT, rom saqarTvelos axla natoSi gawevrianebis aranairi Teoriuli perspeqtiva ar aqvs. ar mogwonT nato da evrokavSiri?
– ase calsaxad nu gavigebT yvelafers. zogadad rom vTqvaT, Cveni sagareo politika unda iyos agebuli im veqtorze, romelic dRes aZlevs xels qarTul saxelmwifos, rac sargebels moutans ers. unda gvqondes grZelvadiani da moklevadiani xedvebi. ar SeiZleba religiis donemde aviyvanoT urTierToba ruseTTan an evropasTan Tu natosTan. es sarwmunoebrivi sakiTxi ar aris, sentimentaluri emociebiT rom Sexedo. sagareo politika umkacresad pragmatulia. iranis da TurqeTis veqtoric rom iyos momgebiani qveynisTvis, amaze unda imuSaos mTavrobam. evrokavSirTan urTierTobaze, cxadia, uari ar unda vTqvaT, magram yuradReba unda mivaqcioT samezoblo politikasac. es aris: ruseTi, TurqeTi, azerbaijani, somxeTi, irani. Tuki es veqtori ar ganvaviTareT, araferi gamogviva. xazis gadasma didi mezoblebisTvis arafriT SeiZleba. supersaxelmwifosTan – ruseTTan konfrontaciis kategoriuli winaaRmdegi var. dazepirebuli teqstebis nacvlad – `evrokavSiri dedaa da amerika – mama~ unda gaCndes sufTa pragmatuli, suverenuli veqtori, romelic samezoblo politikis ganviTarebas SeZlebs. elementarulad, iseTi geografiuli mdebareoba gvaqvs, Tavisuflad SegviZlia am did okeaneSi geopolitikuri centris funqciis Sesruleba. rogorc patara saxelmwifom, unda avirCioT dialogis gza da ara konfrontaciis, romlis mosaZebnadac erovnuli, saxelmwifoebrivi azrovneba gvWirdeba, magram axlandeli xelisufleba xoxvisTvisaa dabadebuli da verasodes ifrens. monad dabadebuli ver miiRebs damoukidebel gadawyvetilebas.
– sad vnaxoT arwivad dabadebulebi, batono jondi?
– arwivadaa dabadebuli yvela qarTveli, magram monebi Tavze imitom mogvajdnen, rom sanam Cven maRal mwvervalebze vocnebobdiT, isini fuls akeTebdnen. axla, arCevnebze, xma unda mivceT iseT partias, romelsac qveyana uyvars da, rac mTavaria, icis, rogor marTos.
