“ის, რომ ყოფილი პრემიერი მელიას გათავისუფლებას წაესაკრა ან ახლა სააკაშვილს ხვდება, სრული აბსურდია, ამას ვერ დავიჯერებ”
èïîòïè õòàïîòøâòäò: 27 48 93 –
TiTqmis erTi Tve gavida, rac `nacionaluri moZraoba~ aWaris umaRles sabWoSi Sevida. isini gadawyvetilebis Secvlis mizezad axal realobas asaxeleben da amboben, rom riggareSe arCevnebisTvis emzadebian, manamde ki umravlesobas diskomforts Seuqmnian.
`qarTuli ocnebis~ wevrma daviT bacikaZem `nacionalur moZraobas~ umaRles sabWoSi pufic ki daaxvedra, riTac nika melias misi sityvebi: `vinme Tu Seva parlamentSi, is ar iqneba opozicioneri, iqneba pufi~ Seaxsena. bacikaZe ambobs, rom `nacionaluri moZraobis~ mizani destruqciaa da isini muSaobaSi xels ver SeuSlian.
diskomforti ki aSkarad Seuqmnes `nacionalebma~ rogorc pozicias, ise sakuTar Tavs – sxdomebze yovelgvari TavSekavebis gareSe mimdinare sityvieri Sexla-Semoxla orive mxaris imijs laxavs sazogadoebis TvalSi.
ras fiqrobs arsebul situaciaze da mimdinare Tu mosalodnel politikur procesebze, amaze saubrobs aWaris umaRlesi sabWos fraqcia `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ Tavmjdomare elguja bagrationi, romelic Tavis droze umaRles sabWoSi Sesvlis sastiki winaaRmdegi iyo da quCaSi darCenas amjobinebda komfortul kabinetebs, radgan aqedan ufro `mosaxerxebeli~ eCveneboda xelisuflebis Canacvleba.
– rogor SexvdiT Tqveni lideris gadawyvetilebas sakanonmdeblo organoebSi Sesvlis Taobaze, imedgacrueba xom ar dageuflaT?
– daviwyoT iqidan, rom liderma ki ara, politsabWom miiRo es gadawyvetileba mas Semdeg, rac miSelis dokuments moawera xeli umravlesobam, romelSic gaiwera TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebze 43%-iani barieris gadaulaxaobis SemTxvevaSi, vadamdeli saparlamento arCevnebis Catareba. mokled rom vTqvaT, referendumi daaanonsa qveyanaSi. `qarTuli ocnebis~ xelisuflebidan gasaSvebad CvenTvis mniSvnelovani gaxda yvela tribunis gamoyeneba, maT Soris, parlamentisa da umaRlesi sabWosi. swored amiT ixelmZRvanela politsabWom da miiRo es gadawyvetileba.
– e. i. ver gauZeliT cdunebas da daTanxmdiT komfortul kabinetebSi Sesvlas . . .
– ara, es sruliadac ar niSnavs, rom davikaveT skamebi da kabinetebi. ar vapirebT iq jdomas da `qarTul ocnebasTan~ paeqrobas, ubralod, xelidan ar gavuSviT mmarTveli partiis Semodgomaze saxlSi gasaSvebi damatebiTi Sansi da berketi.
– ramdenad giRirdaT 6-Tviani boikoti, Tuki saboloo jamSi mainc SexvidodiT sakanonmdeblo organoebSi?
– ra Tqma unda, Rirda. swored amiT gadavSaleT `qarTuli ocnebis~ mier moniSnuli wiTeli xazebi. kargad gaxsovT, ras gveubnebodnen: arCevnebi ar gayalbebula da araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar vapirebT vadamdeli arCevnebis daniSvnas, amaze arc dagvelaparakoTo.
– arCevnebis gayalbeba arc axla uRiarebiaT.
– aRiareba iyo saSemodgomo referendumis daniSvna, aba, ra iyo? marTali Tu iyvnen, ratom daTanxmdnen 43%-ian bariers?
– iqneb imitom, rom am maCveneblis miRwevis imedi aqvT?
– ras ambobT, Zalian kargad ician, rom maT aRaravin miscems xmas, ubralod, dro moiges da albaT, axla aq naSovni fulis ofSorebSi gadakargviT arian dakavebulni. gaixseneT, ras ambobdnen politpatimrebze, TiTqos isini rigiTi damnaSaveebi iyvnen. Semdeg, ratomRac, daTmes da esec aRiares. swored protestebis talRam da uwyvetma boikotma gamoiRo Sedegi da gaaTavisufles politikuri niSniT daWerili Cveni TanamebrZolebi.
– ki, magram Tqven xom swored amnistiis punqtis gamo ar moawereT xeli miSelis dokuments?
– isini amnistiiT ar gamosulan, mmarTvel gunds mxolod am SeTanxebis safuZvelze mouxda maTi gaTavisufleba. rac Seexeba amnistiis gamo dokumentze xelmoweris ugulebelyofas, ar migvaCnia marTebulad, igi Seexos damnaSaves, romelmac Tvalebi dasTxara adamians.
– opozicioneri deputati, `nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevri daviT kirkitaZe acxadebs, rom Sarl miSelis dokumentze xelmowera axla ararelevanturi iqneba, vinaidan miSelis dokumenti ukve dairRva. Tqvenc ase fiqrobT, rom aRar Rirs xelmowera?
– yvelafers Tavisi dro da Jami aqvs, Tuki saWiro gaxdeba da amas gadawyvets politsabWo – movawerT, Tu ara – ar movawerT. aravin icis, xval ra procesebi ganviTardeba. Tuki es xelwera aucilebeli gaxdeba `qarTuli ocnebis~ gasaSvebad, movawerT, raTa siRaribe da siRatake dasruldes da qveyanam amoisunTqos.
– yofili premierisa da yofili prezidentis tandemze saubari yvelaze aJitirebul Temad iqca. ramdenad uSvebT am faqts?
– `qarTuli ocneba~ yovelmxriv ecdeba `gaapravos~ da opozicionerad mogvivlinos gaxaria, Tumca igi ruseTis iseTive proeqtia, rogoric ivaniSvili. is, rom yofili premieri melias gaTavisuflebas waesakra an axla saakaSvils xvdeba, sruli absurdia, amas ver davijereb, radgan zustad vici, rasac vambob. amas verc veravis daajereben, radgan yvelam icis, rom giorgi gaxaria im gunds xelmZRvanelobda, romelmac sruliad moaniava es qveyana. aseT kacTan ki Cven saqmes ar davikavebT.
– ramdenad aqvs gaxarias arCevnebSi mogebis Sansi?
– araviTari Sansi ar aqvs, radgan swored misi mmarTvelobis dros gaCndnen qveyanaSi politpatimrebi, gaifurCqna korufcia, ar Seicvala saarCevno sistema, gayalbda arCevnebi.
– aba, risi imedi aqvs?
– isev da isev – mmarTveli partiis. ndobadakarguli xelisufleba, romelsac `qarTuli ocneba~ warmoadgens, ecdeba, gaxaria opozicionerad warmoaCinos da misive gunds moanadirebinos is xmebi, romelsac icis, rom ver aiRebs. amiT mmarTvelobis sadaveebTan gamagrdeba manam, sanam daacdis xalxi. Tumca, imedi maqvs, yvela yvelafers xvdeba da maT es xrikebi ar gamouvaT.
– Tqveni mmarTvelobis dros cixeebi gadatvirTuli iyo. xelisuflebaSi Tu moxvediT, isev daiwyeba dapatimrebebi?
– gaerTianebul opoziciasTan erTad, xeli movawereT dokuments, sadac gawerilia sasamarTlos reformebis aucilebloba. swored marTlmsajulebam unda gadawyvitos, vin aris dasapatimrebeli da vin – ara. prezidentis an premieris gadasawyveti ar unda iyos kacis daWera-gaTavisufleba. mxolod ase SevZlebT samarTlebrivi, demokratiuli qveynis Seqmnas.
– opoziciis sxva warmomadgenlebi mxars uWeren koaliciuri mTavrobis Camoyalibebas. es ramdenad misaRebia TqvenTvis, saakaSvils xom ar gauWirdeba qveynis koleqtiurad marTva?
– am gadasaxedidan, mxolod koaliciur mTavrobazea gaTvla, radgan amas eyrdnoba opoziciis erToba. sxva gzebiT, cal-calke, ver davamarcxebT im monstrs, romelic sakmaod gaizarda da gamsxvilda da ukve mesame mowveviT daikava mmarTvelobis sadaveebi. koaliciuri mTavroba qarTveli xalxisTvis erTaderTi gamosavalia. opoziciamac unda itvirTos da ise gadainawilos samTavrobo adgilebi, rogori procentuli monacemebiTac gamoucxadebs ndobas amomrCeveli TiToeul partias.
– am monacemebiT Tqven da `qarTuli ocneba~ wamyvan adgilebs daiWerT. ra Seicvleba?
– es araa Cveni gadasawyveti, amomrCeveli gankargavs process, miT umetes, rom meeWveba, `qarTul ocnebas~ raime procenti ergos.
– politikur avanscenaze axali Zalebis gamoCena xom ar daasustebs rogorc `qarTul ocnebas,~ ise `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~?
– mosalodnelia, rom Tavad `ocnebis~ proeqtma – gaxariam, maTi xmebi waiRos, aseve sxva opoziciurma partiebmac, nebsiT Tu uneblieT rom iTamaSes maTi TamaSi, waesakron ivaniSvilis mier kargad SeniRbul politikur svlebs da aiRon xmebis mcire nawili. es yovelive xels SeuSlis mmarTvel partias 43%-iani barieris gadalaxvaSi, rac TavisTavad gamoiwvevs vadamdeli arCevnebis daniSvnis aucileblobas, romelzec Cven movipovebT umravlesobas. Cven gvyavs myari amomrCeveli, romelic arasodes gviRalatebs. aqamdec gvedga mxarSi da axla, rodesac ase axlosaa mizani, ratom daixevs ukan? darwmunebuli var, am xalxs sxvebic SeuerTdebian, rodesac darwmundebian Cvens gamarjvebaSi.
– rogor Segxvdnen umaRles sabWoSi?
– `qarTulma ocnebam~ Zalian kargad icis, rom maT damarcxebaSi mxolod Cven SegviZlia lomis wilis Setana, amitomac ar surda Cveni Sesvla, Tumca iZulebuli gaxda, angariSi gaewia evrosabWosTvis. axla surT xma CagvixSon xmauriT, aurzauriT, magram amas ver miaRweven. Cven TiToeuli adamianis xmas mivitanT umaRles sabWomde da problemebis gamosworebas vaiZulebT. yvelafers gavakeTebT `qarTuli ocnebis~ mxilebisTvis, davamtkicebT, rom swored isini arian damnaSave qveynis gaRatakebaSi. pandemiisTvis nasesxebi miliardobiT dolaric ki jibeSi Caides da xalxs ar moaxmares.
– saqarTvelos parlamentis Tavmjdomare acxadebs, rom saarCevno reformis gatarebis Semdeg, aRaravis gauCndeba gayalbebis eWvi. ramdenad endobiT am reformas, sakmarisi xmebi rom ar miiRoT, isev gayalbebis Temas daubrundebiT da boikots gamoacxadebT?
– `qarTuli ocneba~ axla ufro Seecdeba arCevnebis gayalbebas . . .
– mmarTveli gundi amtkicebs, rom ar gauyalbebia da rom Tqven gayalbebis mtkicebulebac ver waradgineT.
– Cven ra unda wargvedgina, `uunaroebma~ Tavad atvirTes Semajamebeli oqmebi ceskos da uskos saitebze. oqmebis udides nawilSi balansic ki ar jdeboda. amiT gayalbeba naTlad Canda. mxolod Sarl miSelis dokumentic ki adasturebs gayalbebis faqts. imedi gvaqvs, axlandel arCevnebSi es dokumenti dagvexmareba, aRar miscemen kvlav gayalbebis saSualebas. mcdeloba, ra Tqma unda, eqnebaT, magram yvelafers gavakeTebT, rom ar miitacon es arCevnebic.
– arCevnebi romc dainiSnos, aWaras ar Seexeba es . . .
– am protestsa da boikots gansakuTrebuli datvirTva misca baTumSi gaxsnilma `Tavisuflebis kvartalma~, romelic Semdeg mTel qveyanas moedo da dadga is Sedegi, rasac Sarl miSelis SeTanxmeba hqvia. arada, am dokumentSi, Cveni mravalmxrivi mcdelobis miuxedavad, ver moxvda aWara. saqarTvelos parlaments mianiWes prioriteti da aRarc gaxsenebiaT Cveni regioni, radgan miiCnies, rom aqac TavisTavad dainiSneba vadamdeli arCevnebi, kanonSi garkveuli cvlilebiT. Tqven rogor warmogidgeniaT, mTel saqarTveloSi Catardeba arCevnebi, xolo aWara gaagrZelebs cxovrebas sxva mTavrobiT?
– es me ar warmomidgenia, iuridiulad gamodis ase.
– gasagebia, rom iuridiuladaa ase, magram rodesac paralmenti miiRebs politikur gadawyvetilebas vadamdel arCevnebze, samarTlebrivad gaasworeben dokumentacias, romelzec xelmoweriT valdebuleba aiRo mmarTvelma partiam. igive procesebi warimarTeba aWaraSic. Cven gvaqvs Sexvedrebi sxva opoziciur partiebTanac, sadac ganvixilavT, rom am tipis memorandums da SeTanxmebas aWaris umaRlesma sabWomac moaweros xeli.
– imedi gaqvT, rom amaze wamovlen?
– simarTle giTxraT, naklebad gvjera, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ amis pasuxismgeblobas aiRebs, Tumca is realoba, rac Semodgomaze iqneba, aiZulebT, aWaraSic Caataron riggareSe arCevnebi.
minda visargeblo SemTxveviT da madloba gadavuxado yvela adamians, romelic 6 Tvis ganmavlobaSi mxarSi gvedga mZime dReebsa da RameebSi da CvenTan erTad aprotestebda usamarTlobas. maTi TanadgomiT mivaRwieT udanaSauloTa cixeebidan gamoSvebas, srulad proporciuli arCevnebis daniSvnas da sasamarTlos reformas, vadamdeli arCevnebis daniSvnis SesaZleblobas. Cemi gundis saxeliT vaZlev am xalxs pirobas, rom `qarTul ocnebas~ Semodgomaze saxlSi gavuSvebT.
