,,ისედაც ცოტა დავრჩით ქართველები და რელიგიური ნიშნით ეროვნებასაც გვართმევენ?”
òîèï úåúõäïûå 27 48 93 –
muslimTa Temi axali meCeTis mSeneblobasTan dakavSirebiT religiur umciresobaTa Seviwroebaze saubrobs. baTumSi meCeTis aSeneba isev dgas kiTxvis qveS, razec sxvadasxva mosazreba arsebobs rogorc muslimTa, ise qristianTa Soris
saqarTvelos parlamentis wevri, saqarTvelos muslimTa kavSiris yofili Tavmjdomare tariel nakaiZe Tvlis, rom `axali meCeTi saqarTveloSi demokratiis mSeneblobis simboloa~. gTavazobT masTan intervius.
– rogor SeafasebT baTumis meriis mier quTaisis saapelacio sasamarTlos ganCinebis gasaCivrebas saqarTvelos uzenaes sasamarTloSi?
– Cven amas velodiT meriisgan, sxvanairad moqceva arc dagviSvia. sasamarTlom daamtkica meriis mier Cveni diskriminacia, rac adasturebs, rom saxelmwifo politika am mimarTulebiT ar aris gamarTuli da diskriminaciulia religiur umciresobaTa mimarT. cxadia isic, rom amJamindel xelisuflebas ar ZaluZs, qveyanaSi awarmoos moqalaqeze morgebuli politika. saxelmwifo struqturebi kanonsac ki ar emorCilebian da drois gaWianurebiT ewinaaRmdegebian axali meCeTis mSeneblobas baTumSi. rodesac sasamarTlos mivmarTeT, amiT davadastureT, rom samarTlebrivad gvsurs sakiTxis gadawyveta da ar varT quCaSi areulobis Tu religiuri dapirispirebebis momxre. gvinda precedentis Seqmna saqarTveloSi, rom SesaZlebelia kanoni daixmaro msgavsi tipis sakulto nagebobis aRsamarTad da sruliadac ar aris amisTvis saWiro areuloba da qaosi. Tanac, Rrmad varT darwmunebulni, rom analogiuri davebi aRar warmoiqmneba mas Semdeg, rac sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebiT, aSendeba meCeTi Tu sinagoga. xelisufleba dainaxavs, rom Cven, umciresobasac, gvaqvs konstituciiT moniWebuli uflebebi, romlebic xelSeuxebelia. 21-e saukuneSi kanonis eniT unda vilaparakoT da ara xelketebiT. religiuri dapirispirebebis epoqa warsuls CavabareT. ase rom, Tavidanve mzad viyaviT meris am qmedebisTvis. amiT kidev erTxel dasturdeba diskriminacia, rac ar aris saukeTeso gza xelisuflebisTvis, romelsac ukve uyeneben msgavs braldebebs. es sul sxvagvarad fasdeba saerTaSoriso arenaze, diskriminaciis nebismieri gamovlineba iTvleba demokratiisTvis xelisSemSlel procesad, ris winaaRmdegac dasavleTi arsebul sanqciebs da berketebs gamoiyenebs.
– Tu xelisufleba ar Seasrulebs sasamarTlos ganCinebas?
– maSin gavaprotestebT evropaSi. am gzis gasavlelad mzad varT, ar vapirebT ukan daxevas. ubralod, sawyenia sakuTari moqalaqeebis mimarT msgavsi damokidebuleba.
– Tqven fiqrobT, rom baTumis meria arc saqarTvelos uzaenaesi sasamarTlos ganCinebas Seasrulebs, Tuki igi ZalaSi datovebs saapelacio sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebas? romelia Semdegi instancia?
– Semdgomi aRar arsebobs. darwmunebuli varT, rom uzenaesi sasamarTloc kanonis mixedviT moiqceva da aRiarebs religiur umciresobaTa diskriminaciis faqts, magram meria isev monaxavs aqedan Tavis daZvrenis gzas. aRsrulebis nawilSi Tu Seiqmneba problemebi, Cvenc saTanadod moviqceviT da gavagrZelebT brZolas. aqve aRvniSnav, rom demokratiisTvis brZolaSi gamoiwrTo muslimTa Temi, rac namdvilad misabaZia sxvebisTvisac.
– batono tariel, modiT, davakonkretoT, ra sakiTxzea dava da ratom gaxda muslimTa Temi iZulebuli, sasamarTlosTvis miemarTa?
– ki, batono. wlebis ganmavlobaSi iTxovdnen muslimebi baTumSi axali meCeTis aSenebas, vinaidan arsebuli ver itevda mlocvelebs. winasaarCevnod xelisufleba gvpirdeboda miwas, sadac SevZlebdiT meCeTis aSenebas, magram xelisuflebaSi mosulebs araferi mouciaT. yvela dapireba daiviwyes, rogorc ki mTavrobaSi movidnen. Semdeg es Tema gadavida politikur WrilSi. ise warmoadgines sakiTxi, TiTqos muslimebi iTxovdnen azizies meCeTis aSenebas. am kuTxiT ganixiles 2012 wels Cven mier meCeTis aSenebis moTxovna da, Sesabamisad, winaaRmdegobas SeveCexeT.
– ar iTxovdiT azizies meCeTis aSenebas?
– ara, muslimTa Temis moTxovna arasodes yofila es. Semdeg, ukve 2016 wels, rodesac praqtikulad uari gviTxres meCeTis mSeneblobaze, Seiqmna baTumis axali meCeTis sainiciativo jgufi, romelmac daiwyo brZola samarTlebriv WrilSi da paralelurad, Tanxis Segroveba miwis nakveTis SesaZenad. imave wlis seqtemberSi, sainiciativo jgufma SeZlo 3 aTasi kvm miwis yidva saqarTvelos mahmadianTa SemowirulobebiT baTumSi, general aslan abaSiZis quCis #49-Si – ragbis stdionis ukan. ukve 2017 wlis TebervalSi SevitaneT ganacxadi meriaSi, moviTxoveT nebarTva meCeTis mSeneblobis pirveli etapisTvis. 5 maiss miviReT usafuZvlo uari, TiTqos am teritoriaze msgavsi tipis nagebobebis aSeneba dauSvebelia. es aris baTumis meeqvse zona, sacxovrebeli saxlebis didi ganaSenianebiT.
– usafuZvlod ratom miiCnieT es uari, ar aris irgvliv sacxovrebeli korpusebi?
– Cvengan 700 metr radiusSi daaxloebiT 8 eklesiaa, zogi – aSenebuli da zogic – mSenebare. amis safuZvelze vuCivleT merias 2017 wlis seqtemberSi da diskriminacia swored amitom daadgina sasamarTlomac. amave wlis 26 maiss, protestis niSnad, Ria cis qveS gavxseniT xis Zelebisgan Sekowiwebuli meCeTi, romelic dResac moqmedebs da yvela saxis saritualo aqtivoba mimdinareobs. yvelaferia, normaluri Senobis garda. yvela dResaswaulze aq salocavad ikribeba 3000-dan 5000-mde mlocveli.
– bevri Tvlis, rom morwmuneebi Tavs iyrian ara baTumidan, aramed saqarTvelos sxva kuTxeebidan, raTa xazi gausvan problemis siRrmes.
– vici da mikvirs, ratom mohyavT es argumentad? jer erTi, ra mniSvneloba aqvs, salocavad saidan Camova erTmorwmune, da meorec, amtkiceben, TiTqos yvela paraskevs TurqeTidan Tu saqarTvelos sxva regionebidan Camogvyavs mrevli, anu 4-5 aTasi kaci specialurad Camodis aq salocavad. sadRac logikac xom unda CarTon, ara?! romel organizacias Tu dawesebulebas ZaluZs, kviraSi erTxel amdeni kacis Camoyvana da amisTvis fulis gadaxda? Tuki marTlac asea, angariSgasawevi Zala vyofilvarT. mikvirs, rogor ar eSinia merias da ratom aqamde ar mogvca meCeTis aSenebis oficialuri nebarTva, miT umetes, rom yvelaferi sasamarTlos ganCinebis mixedviT Sesruldeboda?
– ramdeni meCeTia baTumSi? Tqven adre amtkicebdiT – erTaderTiao, arada, 8 yofila. . .
– Tuki axalSemoerTebuli administraciuli sazRvrebis Sedegad baTums Semomatebul meCeTebs gulisxmobT, isic gviTxariT, ramdenad Tvlian Tavad baTumelebi am teritorias mSobliur qalaqad? maSin xelvaCauris municipalitetis Senobac baTumSia? baTumi aris centraluri ubnebi, sadac Tavs iyris mosaxleobis umetesoba. aqedan gamomdinare, SeviZineT miwa gareubanSi, ar gvindoda Cvenze yuradRebis koncentracia. e.w. xofis bazrobasTanaa axlos, sadac, ZiriTadad, muslimebi cxovroben. rac Seexeba sxva salocavebs, maT raodenobaSi SehyavT axalsoflis, xelvaCauris Tu adliis meCeTebi. yvelam kargad icis, rom Sig baTumSi mxolod erTi meCeTia da viTxovT meores – Cvens nayid miwaze.
– Tqven gabraleben `osmaleTis warmomadgenlobas parlamentSi~, Tvlian, rom mTel am davaSi TurqeTis interesi devs. . .
– es absurdia. ra SuaSia TurqeTi, rodesac qarTveli muslimebi iTxoven sakulto nagebobas im qalaqSi, sadac saxloben. vinc amas ambobs, swored is adamiani Tu adamianTa jgufia saSiSi saqarTvelosTvis. gamodis, qarTvelebs akuTvnebs sxva saxelmwifos da, praqtikulad, riyavs qarTuli sazogadoebisgan. isedac cota davrCiT qarTvelebi da religiuri niSniT erovnebasac gvarTmeven?! ratom gvdevnian mSobliuri miwidan?! es antisaxelmwifoebrivi midgomaa, sxvagvarad ver davarqmev. erT mSvenier dRes rom gaiRviZon da muslimTa miwaze meCeTi daxvdeT aSenebuli, ras gvizamen? verafers! magram ase ar gvinda, ar gvsurs kanongareSe moqmedeba. Cven samarTlebrivi gza avirCieT miznis misaRwevad da am gzas arasodes gadavuxvevT. am procesSi yvelam unda miiRos monawileoba – rogorc muslimma, ise qristianma da saxelmwifo struqturebis warmomadgenlebma. ratomaa cudi baTumisTvis istoriuli meCeTis aSeneba, romelic met turists moizidavs Cvens qveyanaSi, ar mesmis.
– Tavidan ivaniSvili Tanaxma iyo, aeSenebina meCeTi, Tumca Semdeg gadaifiqra. riT xsniT am faqts?
– 2014 wels dagvpirdnen, magram zewolis Sedegad gadaifiqres. me maSinve vTqvi, rom es ar moxdeboda, Tuki ar mivmarTavdiT sasamarTlos, rac gamarTlda. axlac aWianureben, magram rodemde Segvayovneben? adre Tu gvian kanoni ikanonebs da morwmuneebs miecemaT meCeTSi locvis saSualeba.
– xom gTavazobdaT meria orTajames meCeTis gafarToebas, ratom ar daTanxmdiT?
– es warmoudgenelia im teritoriaze, romelic orTajames gaaCnia. damatebiT 4 aTasi kacis adgili fizikurad ar aris. iyo saubari, rom mimdebared mcxovrebi 32-38 ojaxi gaeSvaT iqidan, rac Zalian Zviri – 40-50 milion aSS dolaramde jdeboda. arc amdeni fuli gvqonda da arc survili, rom amodena Tanxa ase uazrod Cagvedo gafarToebaSi, rodesac SeiZleboda gacilebiT naklebi finansebiT axali nagebobis aSeneba.
– Tuki TurqeTi dagafinansebdaT?
– iciT, ra, romc gafarToebuliyo orTajame, realuri problema mainc mougvarebeli rCeboda. Tanac iq ar arsebobs parkingis saSualeba, kargad iciT, am kuTxiT ra viTarebaa Zvel baTumSi. salocavad mosuls, sad unda gaeCerebina avtomobili?!