გია მურღულია: ღირსეული განათლება ღირსეული ცხოვრების წინაპირობა უნდა იყოს
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ra gamowvevebis winaSe dgas dRes ganaTlebis sistema da ra unda gaakeTos saxelmwifom arsebuli suraTis Sesacvlelad, am da kidev araerT mniSvnelovan sakiTxze gvesaubra filologiis doqtori gia murRulia.
– batono gia, Tqven mier televiziiTa Tu socialuri qseliT gadmocemuli ambebi yovelTvis siyvarulisken, sikeTisken, meti ganaTlebisken mouwodebs adamianebs. rogor fiqrobT, imisaTvis, rom gendos sazogadoeba, miiRos Seni azri, mogisminos, ra Tvisebebia saWiro?
– aq sami mniSvnelovani zmnaa dasaxelebuli (`gendos~, `miiRos~, `mogisminos~), romelTa Sesabamisi sazogadoebrivi ganwyoba ukiduresad Zneli misaRwevia. kidev ufro rTulia am ganwyobis Sesatyvisi qmedebis dabadeba. ar maqvs iluzia, rom Cemi fiqris gavlena amdenad SesamCnevia, magram Tqven mier dasmul SekiTxvas ase vupasuxebdi: mxolod personaluri Tvisebebi realur damokidebulebaTa da ganwyobaTa Sesaqmnelad sakmarisi ar aris. adamianisgan saWiroa kompetencia, gulwrfeloba da Tavdajerebuloba. gare faqtorTagan ki mniSvnelovnad mimaCnia konkretuli faqtebi Tu movlenebi (xangrZlivi Tu mokle moqmedebis), romlebic SeTavazebuli fiqrisa Tu xedvis aRqmas, gaazrebasa da momdevno moqmedebisas gaTvaliswinebas met-naklebad SesaZlebels xdis.
– samwuxarod, ganaTlebis xarisxis kuTxiT namdvilad ver davikvexniT, bolo monacemebiT, saqarTvelo aRniSnuli mimarTulebiT arcTu ise saxarbielo mdgomareobaSia. rogor fiqrobT, ra aris am yvelafris mizezi da ra unda gaakeTos saxelmwifom arsebuli suraTis Sesacvlelad?
– aq mizezTa mTeli wyebaa: ar gvaqvs strategiuli xedvisa da dagegmvis, problemaTa realuri fiqsirebisa da saWiro gadawyvetilebaTa miRebis kultura. saTanadod ver varCevT (yvela doneze) kadrebs. ar arsebobs monitoringisa da mkafiod gansazRvrul pasuxismgeblobaTa sistema. ar Cans aranairi memkvidreobiToba e.w. reformebs Soris. ar gvaqvs miRebuli (Tundac karg) gadawyvetilebaTa danergvis saTanadod maRali kultura. ar aris sakmarisi sazogadoebasTan komunikaciis xarisxi. Zalian cudad muSaobs ganaTlebis sistemaSi dasaqmebul adamianTa profesiuli ganviTarebis arsebuli modeli. es ar aris gardauvlad aucilebeli da saWiro uwyvetobis uzrunvelyofis meqanizmi. didi xania aRreulia sakanonmdeblo da aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebebis funqciebi da pasuxismgeblobani – ukve aTwleulebia, ver veRirseT imas, rom parlamentma Seqmnas ganaTlebis saxelmwifo politika da zedamxedveloba gauwios ganaTlebisa da mecnierebis saministros, xolo aRmasrulebelma xelisuflebam cxovrebaSi gaataros da saTanado xarisxiT danergos miRebuli gadawyvetilebebi. am bolo dros idgmeba nabijebi am mimarTulebiT da vnaxoT, ra Sedegs moitans. dasaxvewia ganaTlebis sakanonmdeblo baza. mudmivad gasaviTarebelia infrastruqtura da teqnikuri Tu teqnologiuri SesaZleblobebi. sxva mizezTa dasaxelebac SeiZleba, magram amjerad amiT SemovifargloT. ra unda gakeTdes da yvelaferi, rac CamovTvale, ise dalagdes, rogorc normalur saxelmwifos Seefereba.
– socialur qselSi araerTi e.w. mimdevari gyavT, iyo saRamos leqsebis seriac, romelic aRafrTovanebda mkiTxvels. ras niSnavs TqvenTvis poezia da ras SeadarebdiT weris process?
– poezia adamianis TviTSecnobacaa da TviTgamoxatvac. rogorc rusTveli ambobs: `Sairoba, pirveladve, sibrZnisaa erTi dargi~. is am mudmivad cvalebad samyaroSi imis SenarCunebac aris, rac adamians adamianad tovebs. poeturoba mxolod poetTa xvedri ar aris. visze naklebi poetia erTi ucnobi qali, romelmac saukuneTa win vanis qvabTa erTi monastris kedels miawera: `ToTxmeti wlisa viyavi, aq rom momiyvanes. aqve Semisrulda samocdaToTxmeti. ra lamazi iyavi, biWo. . .~ poezia sulis moTqmaa. is codnac aris, ganwyobac, bednierebis natexi Tu wyaroc. netav vin iyo is Sumeri, pirvelad rom auxsna siyvaruli misTvis Zvirfas qals am sityvebiT, romlebic SemdgomSi TaobaTa gauxunar saTqmelad iqca: `Cven Soris RmerTma gaiara~. ase ambobdnen, roca undodaT eTqvaT: `me Sen miyvarxar~. Zalian miyvars rogorc didi poeturi tiloebi (homerosis, dantes, rusTvelis, jalal ed-din rumis, goeTes qmnilebebi), ise mcire formac (iaponuri, Cinuri, iranuli, ebrauli poeturi miniaturebi). weris procesi CemTvis is momentia, rodesac fiqr-grZnoba (Znelia am ori cnebis daSoreba adamianSi) sityvebad da frazebad iqceva. es yovelTvis axali samyaros dabadebaa.
– wigni, romelmac waruSleli STabeWdileba datova Tqvenze da personaJi, romelTanac siamovnebiT miirTmevdiT finjan yavas da isaubrebdiT bevrs. . .
– aseTi erTi wigni ar arsebobs. ramdenimes dagisaxelebT: biblia, lao-Zis `dao de-Zini~, SoTa rusTvelis `vefxistyaosani~, migel servantesis `don-kixoti~, miSel montenis `cdani~, bernar fontelenis `Zvel da axal gardacvlilTa dialogebi~, xorxe luis borxesis moTxrobebi. rac Seexeba personaJs, erTi didi survili maqvs: vkiTxo rusTvelis tariels, vin aris is? ara mgonia, am kiTxvaze pasuxi vinmem icodes. adamiani, romelsac avTandilic ki (Tavad mravalTaTvis saocnebo kaci) eubneba – yovelTvis da yvelgan `igi iqmnas, raca gindao~, ubralo `vinme~ ar aris.
– ganaTleba da ganaTlebuli adamiani. . .
– sityva `ganaTleba~ qarTul enaSi aRiqmeba, rogorc naTlis Semosvla adamianSi. es ar aris ubralod informirebuloba, gnebavT – `codna~, es gacilebiT metia, es uzenaesi Zalisa da sikeTis Semosvlaa kacis sulsa da gonebaSi. fsevdo-dionise areopageli ambobda, `naTel sacnaur saxierebasa ewodebiso~, anu naTeli Sesacnobi, xiluli sikeTeao. sikeTe ki RmerTis pirdapiri saxelia. mokled, naTeli xiluli RmerTiao. ai, ra konteqstSi unda aRviqvaT da gaviazroT sityva `ganaTleba~. ganaTlebuli kaci ki aris suli, romelic savsea samyaros idumali aRmatebulobiT.
– rogoria patriotizmis Tqveneuli aRqma. . .
– erTxel maqsimilian robespierma Tqva: `samSoblosTvis cota gagikeTebia, Tu yvelaferi ar gaakeTe~. ar aris sakmarisi, giyvardes Seni qveyana – misTvis mudmivad raRac kargs unda akeTebde. Tu samSoblosTvis sasargeblo ar xar, maSin mxolod laparaki da gulSi mjiRis cema sruli uazrobaa. pasuxismgeblobis gareSe siyvaruli sasacilo miuReblobaa.
– `Cakrulos~ Semdeg, dRes ra iqneboda is, rasac kosmosSi gaagzavnidiT?
– am kiTxvis qveteqsti is aris, ras miviCnevT Cven dRes saqarTvelos umTavres saTqmelad samyarosTvis. ra gvaqvs iseTi, riTac sxvebs sakuTar mosawon an idealur saxes warvudgenT? simarTles Tu vityviT, axal droSi qarTvelebs aseTi araferi Segviqmnia – yvelaferi, riTac Tavs viwonebT, ukve didi xania gvaqvs da isini Cvenma winaprebma Seqmnes. da mainc, Tu rames kosmosisTvis SesaTavazeblad gaviazrebT, es usaTuod kulturis sferodan iqneba.
– moswavleebTan, axalgazrdebTan gaqvT yoveldRiurad Sexeba. rogori midgoma sWirdebaT maT dRes imisaTvis, rom hqondeT xarisxiani ganaTlebis miRebis, progresis survili? ra rekomendacia, rCeva geqnebaT damwyebi pedagogebisTvis da aramarto?
– survils mxolod ori ram badebs: saWiroeba da motivacia. xarisxiani ganaTleba yovelTvis saWiroa – amis gareSe srulad warmoudgenelia konkurenciis gaweva da es axalgazrdebs Tavadac kargad esmiT. Cven mainc damatebiT yvelaferi unda gavakeToT, rom ganaTlebis mniSvnelobaze axal Taobas kidev ufro sruli warmodgena SevuqmnaT. meore mxriv, sazogadoebamac da saxelmwifomac saTanado garemos, auras Seqmnas unda moaxmaros Zalisxmeva – ganaTlebuli kacis cxovrebis wesi qveyanaSi mniSvnelvani da aRiarebuli unda iyos, ufro meti unda vimuSaoT imaze, rom ganaTlebuloba popularuli gaxdes da, rac mTavaria, pirdapir daukavSirdes adamianis, moqalaqis keTildReobas Cvens qveyanaSi. Rirseuli ganaTleba Rirseuli cxovrebis winapiroba unda iyos.
– filologiis doqtori brZandebiT, minda SevexoT weris, saubris kulturas, romelic damaxinjebuli formebiT imkvidrebs Tavs da romelsac yoveldRiurad vxvdebiT, vismenT, Tundac televiziis, an socialuri qselebis saSualebiT. rogor fiqrobT, aRniSnuli kuTxiT ra RonisZiebebis gatarebaa saWiro?
– dRes aRreuli, bundovani da `mdabali~ metyvelebisTvis arsad da maT Soris, masmediasa Tu socialur qselebSi aranairi pasuxismgebloba ar arsebobs. qarTuli ena mravalTa metyvelebisas damcirebuli da Seuracxyofilia. am dros ar unda viviwyebdeT, rom metyveleba azrovnebis sarke da gamomxatvelia. ufro xSirad unda visaubroT gamarTuli metyvelebis mniSvnelobaze, Tumca es ar aris sakmarisi. skolebsa da universitetebSi Sesabamisi programebi unda gaZlierdes, enis codnis konkursebi unda tardebodes. sazogadoebas ukiduresad pozitiuri formiT unda warvudginoT is adamia-nebi, sxvadasxva sferos warmomadgenlebi, romlebic kargad metyveleben qarTul enaze. es unda iyos sazogadoebrivi statusisa da renomes ganmsazRvreli erT-erTi mniSvnelovani faqtori.
– `arsebobs cxovrebis ganzomilebebi, romelSic damarcxebac gamarjvebaa~ – ambobT, roca moswavleebs erTgvar Segonebas ugzavniT. Cveni gazeTis saSualebiT, kidev ras etyodiT maT?
– arsebobs siyvarulis movaleoba da movaleobis siyvaruli. martivad Tu gvinda movisminoT, adamianis cxovrebis sazrisisken am sityvebs mivyavarT. Cems moswavleebs, sxvadasxva formiT, mudmivad vesaubrebi imaze, ra qmnis adamianis namdvil saxes. keTilganwyoba da msaxureba – es ori mTavari ideaa, romelic Cvens cxovrebas azrs aZlevs.
– siyvaruli. . .
– siyvaruli aris adamianis kosmiurad Semaferxebeli egoizmis sruli damarcxeba. rogorc pavle mociquli ambobs korinTelTa mimarT pirvel werilSi, siyvaruli `ara eZiebn Tavisasa~. RmerTi siyvaruliao, ambobs ioanes saxareba. adamiani usiyvarulod mkvdaria, yvelaze cocxalic rom iyos.
– Zaladobis winaaRmdeg, miT ufro bolo periodidan gamomdinare, araerTgan isaubreT. rogor unda davZlioT igi CvenSi, sad davuSviT Secdoma, an ra unda gavakeToT Zaladobis aRmosafxvrelad. . .
– Cveni axalgazrdoba bolo aTwleulebSi xedavda, rom Zaladobis gziT, drois mcire monakveTSi, didi Zalisxmevis gareSe SeiZleba e.w. warmatebis miRweva. es damRupveli `ideaa~. TviTdamkvidreba sxvisi damcrobis, daCagvris xarjze erT-erTi pirvel rigSi dasamarcxebeli problemaa saqarTveloSi. zogjer amgvari qceva `vaJkacobad~ miaCniaT. saerTodac, Cvens qveyanaSi, rogorc Cans, fundamenturi cnebebi xelaxla, dawvrilebiT da Zalian mkafiod unda ganvmartoT. am fonze Zalian dasanani Secdoma Tu upasuxismgeblobaa, rom ojaxebsa Tu skolebSi aRzrdis sistema da kultura SesamCnevad moikoWlebs.
– is, rac yvelaze metad geamayebaT. . .
– yvelafris miuxedavad, meamayeba, rom qarTveli var. kargad vacnobiereb, ramdeni nakli gvaqvs, magram Cveni xasiaTisa Tu cxovrebis wesis ukeTesi gamovlinebani Zalian meZvirfaseba. saboloo angariSiT, qarTveli mainc sikeTisa da mSvenierebis msaxuria.
– rogoria Tqveni wili baTumi, ra mogonebebi gakavSirebT masTan?
– baTumi CemTvis naTlisa da Tavisufali sivrcis qalaqia. xandaxan CvenSi zRvas `zRvarTan~ akavSireben. baTumi meubneba, rom zRva raRacis Caketva da dasasruli ki ar aris, aramed axali sivrcisken Sexsnili karia.
– adamianad yofnis sevda. . .
– frangi poeti pol valeri ambobs, sevda usaxoao. mas marTlac ar aqvs saxe da nisliviT aris, sulSi rom Semodis. sevda aris imis SegrZneba, rom arsebobs srulyofileba, romelsac adamiani xSirad ver uaxlovdeba. is ganviTarebis survils badebs. magaliTad, SemTxveviTi ar aris, rom fatmanis cxovrebaSi nestani maSin gamoCndeba, rodesac mas navrozobisas sevda moeZaleba. is, visac adamianuroba arasdros `esevdianeba~, bolos da bolos, kargavs mis SegrZnebas.
– ganmeoreba rom SeiZlebodes. . .
– es rom SeiZlebodes, im dReebs xelaxla davinaxavdi, qarTvelebs rom saarako erTianobisa da socialuri sinergiis SegrZneba gvqonda (saqarTvelom rom damoukidebobis aRdgena gamoacxada, Tbilisis `dinamom~ rom Tasebis Tasi moipova).
– sinanuli. . .
– vnanob, rom Cems mSoblebs ufro metad ver vaCvene, rogor miyvarda isini. waukiTxav wignebs vnanob. zogjer arTqmul sityvebsac vnanob.
– da ra iqneba xval. . .
– Tu ar virwmunebT, rom xval yvelaferi ukeTesad iqneba da ar vizrunebT amisTvis, yvelaferi marTlac ise darCeba, rogorc aris. modiT, xaim veicmanis erTi fraziT davasruloT: `saswaulebi xandaxan xdeba, magram amisTvis Zalian bevri muSaobaa saWiro~.
