ილია ნაკაშიძე პოლიტიკურ ჩიხში შესვლას არ გამორიცხავს
მარიამ ხითარიშვილი 27 48 93 –
ilia nakaSiZe, yofili parlamentari, vicespikeri, amJamad baTumis SoTa rusTavelis saxelobis universitetis profesori, klinika `rogos~ generaluri direqtori, kliniku-ri menejeri acxadebs, rom politikidan samudamod ar wasula, mxolod pauza aiRo da akademiuri gaTvlebiTaa dakavebuli anesTeziasa da kritikul medicinaSi.
baton ilias, rogorc eqimsa da politikoss, vTxoveT interviu politikur sakiTxebze da pandemiasTan dakavSirebul problemebze, rac iqmneba vaqcinaciis procesis Senelebis gamo.
– batono ilia, sanam ZiriTad sakiTxebze gadavidodeT, oriod sityviT gviambeT axal klinikaze.
– es, marTlac, axali sityvaa esTetikur medicinaSi, ara mxolod baTumSi, mTel aWarasa da saqarTveloSi, aramed sruliad amierkavkasiaSi. klinikaSi sami ZiriTadi mimarTulebaa da unikaluria Tavad am mimarTulebebis SefardebiT: esTetikuri qirurgia, zogadi medicina da stomatologia sruliad axal speqtrs qmnis. klinika ganlagebulia griboedovisa da gorgaslis quCebis kveTaSi. ukve Zalian didi perspeqtivebi gamoikveTa. unikaluroba gamoixateba stomatologiis komponentSic, radgan aq funqcionirebs amiekavkasiaSi yvelaze mZlavri kbilis laboratoria. imedi maqvs, es klinika saxels gauTqvams Cvens qalaqs saerTaSoriso masStabiT.
– politikaze gadavideT. Tqveni parlamentarobis vadis amowurvis Semdeg iyo arCevnebi, opoziciis boikoti, aqciebi, xelisuflebidan wavida biZina ivaniSvili, `qarTuli ocneba~ datova warmatebulma premierma gaxariam… anu ise air-dairia yvelaferi, rom miSelis dokumentmac ver Caawynara viTareba. ras fiqrobT am situaciaze?
– politikuri procesebis mTeli es CamonaTvali ucxo ar aris demokratiuli saxelmwifosTvis. cota ufro intensiurobiT ki gamovirCeviT, magram saboloo jamSi, Seqmnili viTareba cxadyofs, rom saqarTvelo swor gzazea, aq sityvis da moqmedebis Tavisufleba garantirebulia moqalaqeebisaTvis. mTavaria, rom procesebi xelovnurad ar yalibdeba da kanonis CarCoebs ar scildeba. Tumca protestis gamoxatvis forma, emociebi, dapirispireba, sazogadoebis polarizeba, ra Tqma unda, piradad CemTvis da sazogadoebis didi nawilisTvis miuRebelia.
– gaxarias wasvla ram gamoiwvia, nuTu marTla melias gamo gadawyvita im partiis datoveba, romelmac mianiWa lideris statusi?
– melias Tema, misi xedvisTvis, albaT iyo is bolo wertili, romelic dasva kidec da gavida qveynis meTauris kabinetidan. manamde datova partiuli saqmianoba batonma biZinamac. ivaniSvilamde Cven, politsabWos ramdenime wevrmac varCieT gasvla. ar aris gasakviri partiuli cxovrebaSi sxvadasxva Sexedulebis gamo poziciis datoveba. me varCie, cxovrebis am etapisTvis davbrunebodi aqtiur medicinas, Tumca partiis yvela mimdinare process vecnobi, wvdoma maqvs yvela informaciaze, rac iqaur movlenebs exeba.
– isev `qarTuli ocnebis~ wevri xarT?
– Tqven iciT, rom ar miyvars aqeT-iqiT sirbili. miyvars stabiluroba. isev is ilia var, 2016 wels rom Sevedi parlamentSi da is ilia, romelic revoluciur procesebSi 2004 wels Caeba. Cemi pozicia arc maSic damimalavs da axlac naTelia yvelasTvis. ra Tqma unda, mxars vuWer `qarTul ocnebas~ da ar vapireb arsad gadasvlas.
– anu mxars uWerT `ocnebis~ yvela gadawyvetilebas?
– yovelTvis ara, salaparako marTlac bevria, magram, ZiriTadad, virCev intrapartiul pozicias anu risi Tqma da ganxilvac minda, imas vambob partiaSi da ara mis gareT. Tuki mivatoveb partias, Semdeg SeiZleba gareTac vilaparako, magram vfiqrob, jer amis ufleba ar maqvs. momxre var, simSvide da stabiluroba iyos `qarTul ocnebaSic~ da mis garSemoc.
– gulwrfelad gviTxariT, Tu elodiT, rom saakaSvili sityvas Seasrulebda da arCevnebze Camovidoda saqarTveloSi?
– gulwrfelad geubnebiT, rom mis Camosvlas marTlac velodi, magram ara aseTi zRapruli gziT. Megona, Riad Semovidoda, ise, rogorc opoziciis liders, yofil prezidents ekadreboda, amitom is rac arCia, CemTvis sruli moulodneloba iyo.
– saakaSvili amtkicebs, am gzas mxolod imitom mimarTa, winasaarCevnod sakuTari momxreebis aRtkineba rom ar gamoewvia da areuloba ar Seeqmna saqarTveloSi.
– me ki piriqiT mgonia. sakuTari momxreebis simravleze saakaSvili xSirad apelirebs, magram darwmunebuli var, man Zalian kargad icoda, rom ar hyavda saTanado raodenobis mxardamWerebi da amitomac airCia sazRvris ukanono gadmokveTa. gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi, is gabedavda da rogorc lideri, xmamaRla gamoacxadebda sakuTar adgilsamyofels, magram Tuki marcxs ganicdida, iqneb uCumrad gascloda aqaurobas. erTaderTs, rasac yofili prezidenti aranairad eloda, dapatimreba iyo. aqac hqonia sxvadasxva scenarebi, magram gaTamaSeba ver moaswro da yovelgvari Saravandedi Camoscilda. axla is erT-erTi rigiTi msjavrdebulia da iseve ixdis sasjels, rogorc sxva patimrebi. saakaSvilis mimarT aRiZra saqme, gamotanilia ganaCeni. aqedan gamomdinare, igi CemTvis kriminalia, romelmac unda moixados sasjeli. amitom umjobesia movusminoT iuristebs, maT kargad ician, ra da rogor ganxorcieldeba.
– rogorc eqimi, ras gvetyviT saakaSvilis SimSilobasa da amis gamo atexil aJiotaJze, yofili prezidentis janmrTelobas marTla emuqreba safrTxe?
– Tqven kargad aRniSneT sityviT – `aJiotaJi~. igi zustad gamoxatavs am procesis WeSmarit arss. me aq ver vxedav gansakuTrebul mdgomareobas, verc mis SimSilobas, ar mesmis is aRSfoTeba, rasac am situaciis gamo gamoxataven misi mxardamWerebi.
– rogor SeafasebdiT im kadrebs, romlebic gaavrcela Sss-m?
– ar momewona es yvelaferi, arc is, amdens rom laparakoben am Temaze. mimaCnia, ar iyo saWiro am kadrebis gasajaroeba. damamcirebelia pirovnebisTvis, CvenTvis, penitenciuri samsaxurisTvis, qveynisTvis. Tuki saakaSvili ase iqceva, ar niSnavs, rom Cvenc unda avyveT da analogiurad moviqceT, ubralod, ar SegvSvenis.
– xalxi iTxovs sajaroobas, aTasgvar Worebs avrceleben.
– gaavrcelon, mokle teqsturi Setyobinebac sakmarisi iqneboda am xalxis dasaSoSmineblad. yovelTvisaa SesaZlebeli swori gzis gamonaxva ise, rom arc sxva daamciro da arc Tavi Caiyeno uxerxul mdgomareobaSi saerTaSoriso masStabiT. cixeebSi bevri ixdis sasjels, ra ambavia amdeni laparaki erT patimarze.
– saakaSvilis CamosvliT opoziciam moigo Tu waago?
– Cemi azriT, opoziciam saerTo jamSi waago, magram yvelafers saakaSvils nu davabralebT. vis irgvliv gaerTiandnen, ra undaT, risTvis ibrZvian, raa maTi saboloo mizani?.. Tuki mousmenT maT pretenziebs, cxadi iqneba, rom erTi problema aqvT – biZina ivaniSv-ili da `qarTuli ocneba~… normaluri saarCevno programac ki ara aqvT SemuSavebuli, an rodis gaakeTebdnen, ar caliaT amdeni aqciis da mitingis fonze. mimaCnia, rom adamians, romelic gaerTiandeba `nacmoZraobaSi~ an mis satelit partiaSi, aRar rCeba moraluri ufleba, isaubros zneobasa da eTikaze. arc erTxel ar mouxdiaT normaluri bodiSi maTi mmarTvelobiT dazaralebuli sazogadoebisTvis, ar ikadres, Takiloben.
– ambobdnen, Secdomebi gvqonda da gamovasworebTo.
– Secdomebia adamianebis daxocva, wameba da damamcireb-el pirobebSi Cayeneba?! Aaba, Tavad rogor aitans msgavss, ar ufiqria amaze? Aai, ra moxda TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebze, – gaerTianebulma opoziciam mTeli Tavisi resursi amowura, qudze kaci miiyvana ubnebSi, magram ufro meti mowinaaRmdege mivida imis SiSiT, miSa ar gaeTavisuflebinaT da isev ar mieSvaT qveynis mmarTvelobis sadaveebTan. es iyo da es. sxva SemTxvevaSi poziciis momxreebi SeiZleba arc ki misuliyvnen arCevnebze. meore turs axasiaTebs msgavsi pasiuroba, magram eri dairazma saakaSvilis winaaRmdeg da isinic ki gaaqtiurdnen, e.w. mesame Zalas rom elodnen da TiTqos aRarc moswondaT `ocneba~. marTalia, Zalian mcire gansxvaveba iyo mmarTveli gundisa da opoziciis kandidatebs Soris, magram garwmunebT, araviTari gayalbeba ar yofila, es iyo xalxis gadawyvetileba. kidev erTi Sansi misces `qarTul ocnebas~ da axla Cvens politikur kulturazea damokidebuli, ramdenad mSvidad, stabilur viTarebaSi mivaRwevT 2024 wlis saparlamento arCevnebs. mosaxleobis nawili daZabuli da ukmayofiloa, arcerTi Secdoma ar unda dauSvan, raTa kidev ufro ar gaRrmavdes sazogadoebis polarizebis procesi.
– vadamdeli arCevnebi Tu ar dainiSna, isev areulobasa da revoluciazea saubari.
– samoqalaqo dapirispirebebis, ZmaTamkvleli xelCarTu-li brZolebis samwuxaro gamocdileba gvaqvs. viciT amis Sedegi, viciT, ramdenad amuxr-uWebs es qveynis socialur-ekonomikur da politikur ganviTarebas. amitomac ar unda dauSvas msgavsi ram sazogadoebam. aqve gamoCnda, vis ainteresebs saqarTvelos ganviTareba da vis – xelisuflebis xelSi Cagdeba. xalxi Zalian kargad xvdeba, romeli politikuri Zala ras mieltvis. kargia, rom xmamaRla acxadeben sakuTar zraxvebs, Tamamad afiqsireben sakuTar pozicias. arc imas gamovricxav, rom aqciebis da saprotesto gamosvlebis Sedegad politikur CixSi moveqceT. am SemTxvevaSi unda gveyos imdeni Rirseba, gamocdileba, rom davniSnoT vadamdeli arCevnebi.
– `qarTuli ocnebis~ politikuri xelmZRvaneloba vadamdel arCevnebs arc ki ganixilavs.
– am etapze ar ganixilavs, magram Tuki politikur CixSi moveqceviT da damuxruWdeba procesi, arc es iqneba problema, dainiSneba vadamdeli arCevnebi da momaval parlamentSi, municipalitetebis sakrebuloebSi aRmoCndeba Cveni sazogadoebis mier arCeuli politikuri speqtris warmomadgenelTa realuri Zala.
– anu migaCniaT, rom SesaZlebelia xelisufleba wamovides vadamdel arCevnebze?
– me mimaCnia, rom politikuri dapirispirebis ukiduresi gamovlineba SeiZleba iyos vadamdeli arCevnebi, Tumca, vfiqrob, es zedmetia. . . sami weli darCa, bolo erTi weli iqneba Ria politikuri brZola, rac mosamzadeblad eyofa partiebs, magram qveyana ar unda gadaiyolon, ekonomikis ganviTareba ar daamuxruWon, unda gaiTvaliswinon, rom mTeli es dapirispireba xdeba msoflio pandemiis fonze.
– miSelis dokumentis uaryofis Semdeg evroparlamenti aRar ereva Cvens saqmeebSi, Tumca misi wevrebi akeTeben sakmaod negatiur gancxadebebs.
– saerTaSoriso sadamkvirveblo misiebi, wamyvani qveynebis liderebi Tvlian, rom TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi Catarda Ria, gamWvirvale, Tavisufal garemoSi, `ocnebam~ Rirseulad gaimarjva da mogviwodeben, rom ar gavcdeT kanonier CarCoebs, Tumca imave evroparlamentSi arian iseTi deputatebi, romlebic amas ar eTanxmebian. vfiqrob, es is adamianebi arian, romlebic Tavis drozec `nacmoZraobas~ uWerdnen mxars. es im demokratiuli procesebis patara Sleifia, rac am etapze mimdinareobs evroparlamentSi.
– rogor SeafasebdiT pandemiur viTarebas da vaqcinaciis procesis Senelebas?
– es kiTxva 2 wlis win rom dagesvaT, pasuxs ver gagcemdiT. rogorc eqimi da profesori, sanam Zirfesvianad ar Seviswavli process da ar movipoveb argumentebs, ar vaJRereb pozicias. axla Tamamad vacxadeb, rom vaqcinireba aucilebelia da dauSvebelia misi tempis Seneleba. sakmarisad SeviswavleT virusis paTogenebi, viciT misi klinikuri suraTi, davxveweT mkurnalobis meTodebi da pirdapir vacxadeb, pandemiis dasaZlevad am etapze ar arsebobs acraze ufro efeqturi meTodi. antivaqseruli moZraoba Zalian uSlis xels vaqcinacias ara mxolod CvenTan, aramed mTel msoflioSi. jandacvis sistemis warmomadgenlebs ufro aqtiurad, argumentirebulad unda mietanaT saTanado informacia momxmareblamde da gacilebiT ioli iqneboda mosaxleobis gadarwmuneba. ramdeni antivaqseri axlobeli, naTesavi, ojaxis wevri, mezobeli, nacnobi dagveRupa am senisgan. isini sikvdilamde idgnen poziciaze, rom vaqcinacia Cipirebaa da amitom dauSvebelia. zRaprebs giamboben, absurdamde midian, arada, yvelam icis statistika, rom vaqcinaciam moitana avadobis Semcireba, davirusebis SemTxvevaSi, gamoiricxeba sikvdili, garTuleba da sxv. amitom vambob, rom kacobriobis umetesi nawilis vaqcinirebis SemTxvevaSi, SevZlebT wertili davusvaT pandemias, romelmac amdeni adamianis sicocxle da janmrTeloba Seiwira.