“ცემით და დამცირებით იხდიდნენ სასჯელს, ღამღამობით გაჰქონდათ მათი გვამები, ვინც ვერ გაუძლო ტანჯვას”
მარიამ ხითარიშვილი: 27 48 93 –
politikur daZabulobaze, TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebsa da yofili prezidentis SimSilobasTan dakavSirebiT atexil aJiotaJze saubrobs `aWarasTan~ interviuSi avtonomiuri respublikis umaRlesi sabWos deputati ilia verZaZe
– batono ilia, jer TviTmmarTvelobis daskvniT turze visaubroT, rodesac lamis bewvis xidze gavla mouxdaT mmarTveli gundis kandidatebs saboloo gamarjvebis dasafiqsireblad.
– bewvis xidze gasvlaSi Tqven Tu imas miiCnevT, rom sakmaod didi intriga iyo xmebis da procentebis TvalsazrisiT – ki, batono, marTlac, bewvis xidze gaviareT, magram samarTlebrivi kuTxiT Zalian kargad organizebuli arCevnebi iyo, sityvis da sakuTari xmis Tavisuflad dafiqsirebis yvela piroba Seqmnili gaxldaT. amas aRniSnaven saerTaSoriso eqspertebic da imis miuxedavad, rom bevri opozicioneri natrobda – raRac yofiliyo araswori, areuli, ukanono an rTuli, veraferi naxes realurad xelCasaWidi, Semdeg rom aegorebinaT Cveuli ayal-mayali. am Casafrebuli xalxis ocnebebi amjeradac ar axda, yvelaferi Catarda kanonis sruli dacviT, ise, rogorc ekadreba demokratiul saxelmwifos, gamWvirvaled da Riad, aravis Seqmnia arCevanis gakeTebis problema. yvela moqalaqem misca xma im subieqts, vinc iyo misTvis misaRebi.
– rogorc opozicia acxadebs, 2000 biuleteni gauqmda, es cifri saidan moitanes?
– statistikis mixedviT, zogadad, uqmdeba, anu baTilad cxaddeba biuletenebis garkveuli raodenoba, romelic, ZiriTadad, erTnairia, arc axla yofila gansxvavebuli. ubralod, baTili biuletenebiT apelireba yovelTvis awyobT da igive moxda am etapzec. xalxis SecdomaSi Sesayvanad ar eridebian aRarafers.
– ratom migaCniaT, rom es tyuilia?
– gabaTilebuli biuleteni niSnavs, rom zogi CvenTvis mocemuli xma gabaTilda, zogi – maTi, an komisiis maTi wevri Tvlis, rom saeWvoa esa Tu is biuleteni, an – Cveni. aq mniSvneloba aqvs yvelafers: arasworad Semoxazvas, zedmet melans an wre ar iyo kargad gakeTebuli, iyo jvari da sxv. imdeni detalia, romelzec dava SeiZleba, verc ki warmoidgenT. aseTi gabaTileba xdeba yvela partiasTan mimarTebiT. jamSi, Tavs iyris aseTi biuletenebi da rogorc wesi, ramdenime aTassac ki aRwevs. bolo 10-15 welia, rac es cifri mudmivad arsebobs. am statistikis naxva yvelas SeuZlia. opozicia am monacems atrialebs da axmovanebs sityva `baTils~, avtomaturad xalxs afiqrebinebs, rom swored maTTvis micemuli xmebi gabaTilda da es swored Cveni gundis miTiTebiT moxda, rac tyuilia. am `baTil biuletenebSi~ an Tanabrad aris xmebi gabaTilebuli, an piriqiT – Cveni ufro metia. gamodis, rom ar gaebaTilebinaT, SesaZloa, CvenTvis mocemuli xmebi ufro meti iqneboda an meore turSi imden xmas davagrovebdiT, `bewvis xidze~ gavla ar iqneboda salaparako.
– imasac acxadeben, rom xmebi gayalbda, Torem sinamdvileSi `gaerTianebulma opoziciam~ moigo baTumi.
– aranairi gayalbeba ar yofila da verc iqneboda, radgan visac odnav mainc esmis arCevnebi, icis, rom dRes gayalbeba SeuZlebelia. amitom vambob: arafers eridebian, es maTi binZuri tyuilebi Semawuxebelia, migiTiTeben im droze, rodesac gayalbeba wesad hqondaT qceuli da am tyuilebs iqve ayoleben, `xelisufleba, aba, ras izamda – gaayalbebda, mis xelSia yvela berketi~.
– ki, mase acxadeben da bevrs logikuradac miaCnia.
– normalurad moazrovne adamianma, romelic saarCevno ubanSi erTxel mainc Sesula da xma miucia, icis, ramdeni damkvirvebeli dgas iq, maT Soris opoziciis interesebis damcveli, icis proceduris Tanmimdevrobac: Sevdivar, vaZlev xmas kabinaSi, sadac dRes ukve suraTis gadaRebac garTulebulia, vdeb biuletens konvertSi, romelsac vuSveb yuTSi . . . yvelas kodebi da nomrebi aqvs, xelmowerisas saxazavebia specialuri, rom ar SegeSalos da sxvis grafaSi ar moxvde. yvela registratoris ukan ki damkvirvebeli dgas da adevnebs Tvalyurs procesis mimdinareobas. xdeba markireba, arsebobs fotosia da a. S. nebismier gadaxraze Tvals dagTxrian, vin gabedavs zedmets?! fizikuradaa SeuZlebeli gayalbeba. yovelive amis miuxedavad, mainc Tavisas amtkiceben, enas Zvali ar aqvso, principiT, pirvel Cvenebas awvebian. rodesac SeekiTxebi, rogor gayalbda da CauSli am sqemas, egreve iwyeben mideb-modebas da absurdis mtkicebas, manamde gaayalbeTo da a.S.
– amtkiceben, rom axla gayalbeba ubnebSi ki ar xdeba, mmarTveli gundi aSantaJebs sajaro moxeleebs, emuqreba maT, aiZulebs arCevnebze misvlas da maTTvis xmis micemas.
– ki, swored amas amboben, magram isic Tqvan barem, vin, rodis da ratom gaaTavisufles samsaxuridan, moisyides, an vin daaSines Tu daaSantaJes. Cveni daSinebuli kaci me ar minaxavs, araferSi geridebian da ise utifrad mogaxlian saxeSi tyuils, eWvi Segepareba sakuTar simarTleSi. SeSinebaze rom saubrobs, imas rom ar eSinia, xom faqtia, aba, raze dayrdnobiT acxadebs, riTi unda SeaSino dRes adamiani? aravis aTavisufleben – iseTi statistika ar arsebobs, rogoric 2003-Si gvqonda, gaxsovT albaT. bodiSi da biTumad rom yridnen xalxs quCaSi. profkavSirebSi vmuSaobdi maSin da vici zustad . . . anu maT ar gaaCniaT aranairi xelCasaWidi, arcerTi obieqturi suraTi ar aCvenebs imas, rom maTi saubrebi safuZvliania. saerTaSoriso misiebis warmomadgenlebs ver arwmuneben amaSi. amitom aqvT gaTvla sakuTari mxardamWerebis masaze, romelsac brmad sjera TiToeuli sityvis, yovelgvari dasabuTebis gareSe.
– Tu gaqvT informacia baTumis sakrebulos Sesaxeb, opoziciuri iqneba Tu . . .
– informacia ar maqvs. dajda xmebis is raodenoba, rac dajda, es cocxali procesia. daiwyeba SeTanxmebebi, molaparakebebi, yvela mxare wamowevs sakuTar SeTavazebebs, Cven pirvel adgilze gavediT mandatebis raodenobiT da yvelaze meti deputati rom gvyavs, es naTelia, magram rogor gadajgufdebian da rogor Camoyalibdeba sabolood sakrebulo, jer veravin getyviT. SesaZloa, dRes erTi gadawyvetileba iyos, xval – meore. vnaxoT, ra iqneba saboloo Sedegi. demokratias axasiaTebs msgavsi viTareba. es normaluria da kidev erTxel adasturebs, rom aranairi gayalbeba ar yofila da TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi Catarda Ria, gamWvirvale da Tavisufal garemoSi.
– rogor SeafasebT saakaSvilis irgvliv atexil informaciul qariSxals?
– amaT Tavxedobas xom sazRvari ar aqvs. geubnebian: minda, gaakeTo ise, rogorc me minda, imitom, rom avrio qveyana. rogor SeiZleba yvelam migiTiTos is, rac azrad mouva. ras niSnavs, yofili prezidenti? mxolod imas, rom is yofilia da araviTari privilegia ar aqvs sxva patimrebTan mimarTebaSi. saakaSvili msjavrdebulia da ixdis sasjels iq, sadac gadawyvita sasamarTlom. CvenTan saxelmwifo institutebi gamarTulad muSaobs, amitom aravis aqvs ufleba, Caerios mis kompetenciaSi. demagogia urCevniaT, raTa ufro advilad arion qveyana. mas Semdeg, rac gavimarjveT da qveynis saTaveSi movediT, yvela patimars Tanabari uflebebi aqvs.
– amiT saakaSvilis mmarTvelobis periodze migviTiTebT?
– diax, misi gundis mmarTvelobidan CamoSorebis gadawyvetileba amitom momwifda. misive momxreebi Sezara im viTarebis gamomzeurebam, rac maSin xdeboda cixeebSi. araadamianurad epyrobodnen tusaRebs, mudmivi wamebiT, cemiT da damcirebiT ixdidnen sasjels, RamRamobiT gahqondaT maTi gvamebi, vinc ver gauZlo tanjvas. miTxariT, ra sindisiT, ra TavxedobiT iTxovs axla saakaSvili privilegiebs?! miT umetes, rom marTlac Zalian kargi pirobebi aqvs Seqmnili. aRar aris is simaxinjeebi, adre rom hqondaT dakanonebuli sasjelaRsrulebiT dawesebulebebSi. dRes iq mobilizebulia samedicino personali, rom droulad aRmouCinon daxmareba, visac es sWirdeba da maT Soris msjavrdebul saakaSvils. Cveni eqimebi Tvalyurs adevneben mis mdgomareobas, raTa ver moaxerxos sakuTari janmrTelobis dazianeba da es ar gaxdes morigi skandalis da areulobis mizezi.
– saubaria kerZo klinikaSi mis gadayvanaze.
– ho, magram misi janmrTeloba ar moiTxovda radikalur Carevas, is, rac aucilebeli iyo, gaukeTes da araferi emuqreba. gadayvana mas da mis momxreebs isev da isev areulobis mosawyobad sWirdebaT da meti araferi.
– saakaSvilis sakiTxi wamoayena zelenskim . . .
– mxolod moikiTxa, rogor grZnobs Tavs, meti araferi. Cvenma premierma gasca pasuxi, rom yofili prezidentis janmrTelobas araferi emuqreba, radgan ar akleben kvalificiur daxmarebas.
– fiqrobT, rom evroparlamentarebi ar Caerevian?
– aqac ar unda mivceT saakaSvils da mis momxreebs manipulirebis saSualeba. ki, akeTeben evroparlamentarebi rig gancxadebebs, magram arcerTSi usaSvelo araferia. saakaSvilis mimarT yvela qmedeba kanonieria, amitom yvela, vinc pativs scems qarTul saxelmwifos, unda moiqces Sesabamisad. evroparlamentarebi arasdros dauSveben mtkicebas – TeTrze Saviao. yvelas aqvs sakuTari azris dafiqsirebis ufleba.
– Tu SeiZleba, vaqcinirebis problemac ganvixiloT.
– aq, marTlac, savalalodaa saqme. minda, isev da isev mivmarTo mosaxleobas da gavagebino, rom vaqcinacia erTaderTi gzaa sazogadoebisTvis, saxelmwifosTvis, raTa aRdges ekonomika da davubrundeT cxovrebis normalur ritms. es problema dadebiTad gadawyda rig mowinave qveynebSi, ukve arsebobs amis didi gamocdileba da ar viTvisebT yamirs. unda gavikeToT yvelam acra, miT umetes, rom arsebobs qveyanaSi sxvadasxva tipis vaqcinis sakmarisi raodenoba.
– aWaraSi 60% ukve aicra, magram isev dgas inficirebis problema . . .
– vaqcina gvicavs kovidis garTulebebisa da sikvdilisgan. rac metia acrili, naklebia virusis gavrcelebis areali. Tuki sakuTari janmrTeloba ar gvadardebs, unda gamoviCinoT maRali moqalaqeobrivi pasuxismgebloba garSemo myofTa mimarT, momavali Taobebis keTildReobisTvis. pandemia safrTxes uqmnis ara mxolod adamianebis janmrTelobas da sicocxles, aramed ganaTlebis sferos, turizms, Sesabamisad, biznesis ganviTarebas, sabiujeto Semosavlebs da a. S. virusis gamo paralizebulia qveyana. imata umuSevrobam, siRaribem, gaWirvebam, ar gvaqvs imodena biujeti, rom did xans gastanos daxmarebebma. amis miuxedavad, mTavroba yvelafers akeTebs, raTa maqsimalurad daexmaros mosaxleobis farTo fenebs, pensionerebs, socialurad SeWirvebulebs da sxvebs.
– avarda dolaris kursi, gaZvirda cxovreba, saarsebo minimumi ukve aRar Seesabameba realobas. inflaciis gamo mosaxleoba ver axerxebs normalurad kvebas.
– asea msoflios TiTqmis yvela qveyanaSi. msoflio ekonomika Cavarda urTules situaciaSi. amitom vacxadebT, rom aqedan gamosavali isev da isev vaqcinaciaze gadis. krizisSia CaTreuli mTeli kacobrioba. iseTi daxmarebebi, rogoric Cvens qveyanaSia, garwmunebT, bevrgan ar aris. mTavroba realurad cdilobs, rac SeiZleba Seamsubuqos pandemiis gavlena qveyanaze. gvinda pandemiis Seneleba da swrafad dasruleba, raTa Semdeg SevZloT ekonomikis aRdgena da gajansaReba. lamis ori weliwadia, rac vebrZviT viruss. amas emateba xelovnurad gamowveuli politikuri areuloba, romelsac iwvevs destruqciuli opozicia. kargad ician, ra krizisSia saxelmwifo, magram ar eridebian aqtiur negatiur qmedebebs, rom kidev ufro gamogvacalon resursi. maTTvis mTavaria ara mosaxleoba, misi keTildReoba da janmrTeloba, aramed gza, romelic xelisuflebamde miiyvanT da amisTvis arafers eridebian. xalxma unda gaigos erTxel da samudamod, rom vaqcinacia umniSvnelovanesi proceduraa qveynis gadasarCenad da rogorc ki mivalT 80-85%-ian niSnulamde, iklebs davirusebis raodenoba. Tuki am niSnuls gazafxulamde mivaRwevT, zafxulis pirvelive TveSi vigrZnobT Svebas. radgan ekonomikuri zrda Tavis pirvel Sedegs gamoiRebs.
– vadamdel arCevnebs iTxovs opozicia. xom ar uSvebT, rom aqciebiT aiZuleben mTavrobas am nabijze wasvlas?
– araviTari vadamdeli arCevnebi ar iqneba. es aris swori, samarTliani da kanonieri. arCevnebi Catardeba 2024 wels, ise, rogorc konstituciiTaa gansazRvruli. erTxel da samudamod unda viswavloT kanonis CarCoebSi cxovreba. ar SeiZleba qveynis areva mxolod imisTvis, rom opozicia ar aRiarebs damarcxebas. wagebulma unda miiRos wageba da arCevnebamde darCenili dro moaxmaros sakuTari partiis gaZlierebas, ukeTesi saarCevno programis momzadebas. sazogadoebam, praqtikulad, es ukve Tqva da Tavisi qmedebebiT, destruqciul aqciebSi CaurTvelobiT opozicioner politikosebs miuTiTa, rom civilizebuli politikuri procesi maTTvis prioritetulia.
