გია ხუხაშვილი: დაიბნა ხალხი, თუ მკვლელი, სადისტი და მანიაკია, რატომ ასამართლებენ არამიზნობრივი ხარჯებისთვის?
ირმა ცეცხლაძ 27 48 93 –
mimdinare politikur procesebsa da eqsprezidentis sasamarTlo procesze `aWarasTan~ eqskluziur interviuSi politologi gia xuxaSvili saubrobs.
– rogor SeafasebT TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebs? opozicia amtkicebs, gayalbdao. . .
– principSi, TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi Catarda iseve, rogorc sxva arCevnebi, sadac iyenebdnen yvela saxis mamaZaRlobas – organizaciuls Tu administraciuls. xelisuflebam finansuri resursebis marTvis monopoliuri mdgomareoba amjeradac warmatebiT gamoiyena. propagandistuli manqanac muSaobda sruli datvirTviT da aqedan gamomdinare, SeiZleba Tamamad vTqvaT, rom es arCevnebi ar iyo konkurentuli da arc samarTliani. Sesabamisad, miviReT is mocemuloba, rac miviReT. garda amisa, jer kidev arCevnebis sawyis etapze opozicia aqtiurad akeTebda prognozs mosalodnel gayalbebaze, Tumca araferi gaukeTebia amis dasamtkiceblad. iseTi STabeWdileba rCeba, TiTqos ezarebodaT muSaoba da aseTi zepiri, verbaluri gancxadebebiT surdaT miznis miRweva.
– swored amaze akeTebs aqcents `qarTuli ocneba~, rodesac gayalbebis Temas exeba.
– diax, swored amaSia saqme, opozicias aqvs iluzia, rom mxolod yviriliT, deklarirebiTaa SesaZlebeli Sedegis miReba, rac politikaSi ar xdeba, Sedegi mxolod SromiT da brZoliT moipoveba.
– risi imedi aqvT am SemTxvevaSi?
– ufro garedan daxmarebaze arian orientirebulebi. ras fiqrobs opozicia, gaugebaria – Sarl miSels unda daeqnia TiTi biZinasTvis da amaTTvis gadaebarebina xelisufleba, Tu ar elodnen, rom `ocneba~ am arCevnebze yvela berkets gamoiyenebda?
– ras ityviT baTumis municipalitetis axali sakrebulos wevris nugzar futkaraZis uecar gardacvalebaze, raSic opozicia mmarTvel gunds adanaSaulebs?
– mZime faqtia, udavod, magram aq gardacvalebasTan iribad Sexebac ki, miT umetes, mkvlelobaSi dadanaSauleba, gamoricxulia. isic viciT, rom mmarTveli gundi yvelgan cdilobda da axlac ecdeba sxvadasxva meTodiT zegavlena moaxdinos konkretul deputatze. amisTvis ras gamoiyenebs: SantaJs, mosyidvas, daSinebas Tu sxvas, ara aqvs arsebiTi mniSvneloba. samwuxarod, es xdeba imitom, rom xelisuflebisTvis saxifaToa municipalitetebis sakrebuloebSi umravlesobis dakargvis precedentis daSvebac ki.
– ras gulisxmobT, Tu SeiZleba ganmarteT?
– maTi Zalauflebis konstruqcia agebulia garkveul absolutze. adgilebze balansis gaCena ori raRacis gamo gaxdeba problematuri: 1 – am tipis kontrolis pirobebSi gauWirdebaT xelis faTuri (korufcia) biujetis aTvisebisas Tu sxva dros; 2 – strategiuli problemaa garkveuli balansis gaCena sakrebulosa da aRmasrulebel xelisuflebas Soris anu sakrebulom Tu realurad itvirTa meris kontroli, maSin im regionebSi, sadac es moxdeba, gacilebiT ukeTesi mdgomareoba iqneba, vidre iq, sadac xelisuflebas mTlianad flobs `qarTuli ocneba~. es Seqmnis garkveul kontrasts, rac momaval arCevnebze gaxdeba mmarTveli gundisTvis problematuri.
– Tqven acxadebT, rom im municipalitetebSi, sadac `qarTuli ocneba~ umravlesobiT ar aris warmodgenili, gacilebiT ukeTesad icxovrebs mosaxleoba?
– modiT, walenjixis magaliTs mogiyvanT. iq rom mkveTrad gaizardos cxovrebis done, radgan meri opoziciis warmomadgenelia, ra daskvnebsac gaakeTebs amomrCeveli, vfiqrob, xvdebiT.
– Tqven marTla gjeraT, rom msgavsi ram moxdeba?
– amis simptomatika ukve arsebobs – ori investori seriozul aqtivobebs apirebs iq da sxva ra giTxraT? Tuki walenjixa gaxda erTgvari keTildReobis zona, dasaqmebis Tu socialuri kuTxiT, saqarTvelos sxva kuTxeebSic gadawyveten, rom adgilobriv TviTmmarTvelobebSi gaamarTla opoziciam. TavisTavad CaTvlian, rom centralur xelisuflebaSi es politikuri Zala kidev ufro metis gakeTebas SeZlebs sakuTari qveynisa da moqalaqeebisTvis. aqedan gamomdinare, Semdeg arCevnebze es yvelaferi Zviri daujdeba pozicias. cxadia, es maTTvis marTlac principuli sakiTxia. amitom cdiloben deputatebis gadabirebas sakuTari miznis misaRwevad.
– baTumis municipalitetze ras gvetyviT, aq gaxarias partiis wevrebis arCevanzea damokidebuli sakrebuloSi mmarTveli gundis umravlesobiT warmodgena?
– TqvenTan gaxarias gundis wevrebis gareSec pariteti dgeba, 17-17-zea nugzar futkaraZis gardacvalebis Semdeg. rodis da rogor Sedgeba kvorumi, jer aravin icis. rTuli mdgomareobaa rusTavSic da quTaisSic, jamurad opozicias aqac prioriteti aqvs. amitom cdilobs xelisufleba, viRaca moisyidos, viRac – SeaSinos. gaxarias partiis wevrebis mdgomareobac ar aris martivi da standartuli, maTi ideologiidan, winaaRmdegobebidan gamomdinare. maTTvis Znelia seriozul oponentTan – `erTian nacionalur moZraobasTan~ kavSiris Sekvra.
– Tqveni azriT, rogor unda moiqces gaxaria am viTarebaSi?
– Tuki saxelmwifo interesebidan gamomdinare, `nacionalebi~ mxars dauWerdnen gaxarias kandidatebs, koaliciis Sekvras – ara, erTjeradi TanamSromlobis farglebSi vurCevdi sakiTxis ganxilvas. `nacionaluri moZraobisTvis~ sakrebulos Tavmjdomaris postebi ar aris imdenad mniSvnelovani, ramdenadac sakrebulos Semadgenlobis opoziciuroba.
– `nacionaluri moZraoba~ acxadebs, rom gaxaria ivaniSvilis satelitia da ar Tvlis opoziciad.
– amaSia saqme. iciT, rom gaxarias partiam waradgina sakuTari kandidaturebi sakrebuloebis Tavmjdomaris postebze, `nacionalur moZraobas~ taqtikuri TvalsazrisiT mxari rom daeWira maTTvis, es iqneboda momavali politikuri ganviTarebisTvis damaintrigebeli.
– batono gia, moigo Tu waago opoziciam saakaSvilis CamosvliT?
– ariTmetikuli gaTvliT, opoziciam – waago. SesaZloa, `erTianma nacionalurma moZraobam~ meti momxreebis da Sesabamisad, meti xmebis mobilizeba SeZlo (principSi maTi amomrCeveli isedac maqsimalurad aris mobilizebuli), magram gaerTianebulma opoziciam, orpolusianobis kidev ufro gaRrmavebis fonze, namdvilad waago – daaxloebiT, 5-7% gadaiqaCa. rogorc ki Sualeduri amomrCevlis gakrefa moxda da isev miSa da biZina darCnen pirispir, aman aSkarad daazarala rogorc gaxarias partia, ise sxva mcire partiebi. jamSi daikarga kritikulad aucilebeli is procentebi, romelic gadamwyveti iyo saboloo Sedegis misaRebad. anu saakaSvili rom ar Camosuliyo da es 5-7% opozicias mieRo, xelisufleba qaRaldzec ver daafiqsirebda 43%-iani barieris gadalaxvas da dRes sul sxva politikur realobaSi aRmovCndebodiT. kerZod, mmarTvel gunds Riad mouwevda e.w. miSelis dokumentiT gawerili valdebulebis darRveva. amis gamo, TavisTavad Camoyalibdeboda absoluturad gansxvavebuli dRis wesrigi.
– mainc ra dRis wesrigs gulisxmobT?
– mimdinares, rodesac viRviZebT da viZinebT miSas ambebiT da saxelmwifoebrivi saqmeebi aRaravis axsovs. arada, xelisufleba sul sxva problemebis mogvarebaze unda zrunavdes, mxolod saakaSvilis Tema xom ar unda musirebdes yvelgan.
– Tqven TvliT, rom saakaSvilis saqmis aJitirebiT xelisufleba sakuTar problemebs igvarebs, anu xels aZlevs miSas irgvliv arsebuli qaosi?
– erTis mxriv, miSa problemaa `qarTuli ocnebisTvis~, magram garkveul sargebelsac poulobs misgan.
– ramdenad adekvaturad mogeCvenaT sasamarTlo procesze saakaSvilis gamosvla?
– movismineT sxvadasxva Sefaseba da rogorc irkveva, aravis Seucvlia azri, yvela rCeba sakuTar poziciaze. anu – momxreebs moswonT, xolo mowinaaRmdegeebi eZeben negativs da minusebs, razec apelireben kidec.
– miSas mimarTvidan ramdenime fragmentma, rbilad rom vTqvaT, misi momxreebic ki gaaoca.
– merwmuneT, miSa amas yvelafers ar akeTebs tyuilad, mas aqvs garkveuli gegma, romelsac dinjad mihyveba. misi qceva, yvela sityva gaTvlilia. mxolod am gamosvlebiT nu vimsjelebT.
– fiqrobT, rom sandras sabraldebo skamze dasmis `SeTavazeba~ an Svilis ganaTlebis biujetidan dafinansebis aRiareba gegmazomieri nabijia?
– dReis mdgomareobiT, misi amocanaa, ar misces xelisuflebas misi sasamarTlo procesebidan CamoSorebis safuZveli. surs daaSoSminos is xalxi, romelsac swamda, rom miSa Camovidoda da quCaSi xalxisTvis Tavebis daclas daiwyebda. aqve imasac davamateb, rom metwilad man es mSvenivrad moaxerxa. garda amisa, meTodurad muSaobs im mimarTulebiT, rom mis mimarT aRZruli siZulvili da zizRi nel-nela gadaiyvanos sxva grZnobebSi, SeiZleba, arcTu dadebiTSi, magram mis mimarT agresia rom gaaneitralos, amas moaxerxebs. yvelaze ucnauri ki isaa, rom misdauneburad, xelisuflebac xels uwyobs.
– cota gaugebaria es mtkiceba, `imedis~ arxze dilidan Ramemde trialebs sxvadasxva aqciis darbevis sisxliani kadrebi.
– esaa saqme. ra gamodis – verbalurad saakaSvils adanaSauleben mkvlelobaSi, sadizmSi, biznesebis dayaCaRebaSi. daibna xalxi, Tu mkvlelia, sadisti da maniaki, ratom asamarTleben aramiznobrivi xarjebisTvis? Sesabamisad, nel-nela farsad iqceva es yvelaferi. swored amas akeTebs miSa, TandaTanobiT kinZavs saqmes, raTa mosaxleobis ndoba daibrunos da mis mimarT arsebuli SiSi, agresia da zizRi, Tu ver gaaqrobs, Seasustos mainc.
– Tqven migaCniaT, rom sazogadoeba mas warsuls apatiebs?
– SesaZloa, raRac kiTxvebi darCes sazogadoebas. pretenziebi, cxadia, mainc iqneba misi mmarTvelobisdroindel sakiTxebze, magram monstris damRa, romelic daasva xelisuflebam, nel-nela idRabneba da iSleba. rogorc ki moaxerxebs amas raRac etapze, vfiqrob, saakaSvili gadava ufro aqtiur moqmedebebze. dRes ki cdilobs, maqsimalurad akademiuri iyos.
– ramdenad SeZlebs opozicia, xelisufleba aiZulos, daniSnos vadamdeli arCevnebi da Tu aZlevs es mas xels, radgan 2012 wlis Semdeg Catarebul vercerT arCevnebze ver gaimarjva?
– dRes amis niSnebi ar Cans, aqtualuri safuZveli TiTqmis ar arsebobs. Sesabamisad, es aris mxolod politikuri ritorika da meti araferi. riggareSe arCevnebi iniSneba krizisis gavliT, xolo kriziss sWirdeba raRac Tema. gayalbebis sakiTxi wamoswies, magram ver daamtkices. ubralod, riggareSe arCevnebi gvinda – araseriozuli moTxovnaa.
– ra dros iniSneba vadamdeli arCevnebi?
– politikuri procesis Sedegad. sad aris es Sedegi? ar aris.
– `qarTuli ocneba~ 2024 wlis saparlamento arCevnebsac ki mogebulad acxadebs.
– es gasagebia, yvela xelisufleba yvela arCevnebis win amas amtkicebs da ibrZvis kidec amisTvis, magram ramdenad miaRwevs mizans, aravin icis.
– vis ekisreba pasuxismgebloba saqarTveloSi pandemiis gamZafrebis da amdeni adamianis daRupvisaTvis? mmarTveli gundi opoziciis aqciebs abralebs, xolo opozicia – xelisuflebis uunarobas.
– vinc ra unda amtkicos, faqtia, rom pandemiis mZimed mimdinareobis gamo pasuxismgebloba xelisuflebas ekisreba. mova dro, rodesac konkretuli saqmeebic aRiZvreba, radgan pandemiis marTvis TvalsazrisiT, xelisufleba arafers akeTebda Tveebis ganmavlobaSi. Sedegad miviReT Zalian dramatuli viTareba. metsac getyviT: is regulaciebic ki, romlebic dRes TiTqos arsebobs, ar sruldeba. vaqcinacia rom Caagdes subieqturi mizezebiT, esec cnobilia. xelisuflebas, ubralod, ar ecala amisTvis da dRemde, samwuxarod, ar scalia – qveynis marTvis sadaveebis SenarCunebaze fiqriTaa dakavebuli.
