“სააკაშვილი არ გამოდგება გუნდური თამაშისთვის”
მარიამ ხითარიშვილი: 27 48 93 –
aWaris umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomaris moadgile tite aroSiZe `aWarasTan~ baTumis sakrebuloSi ganviTarebul procesebze, mimdinare politikur movlenebsa da `qarTuli ocnebis~ perspeqtivebze saubrobs.
– batono tite, ra xdeba dRes baTumis municipalitetis sakrebuloSi?
– rogorc iciT, arCevnebi Catarda, gadanawilda politikuri Zalebi. `qarTul ocnebas~ sakrebuloSi 16 deputati hyavs maJoritarebis CaTvliT, `nacionalur moZraobas~ – 15. sami deputatiT iyo warmodgenili gaxarias partia `saqarTvelosTvis~, aqedan erTma partia datova da damoukidebeli deputati gaxda. amis miuxedavad, ZalTa balansi gadanawilda opoziciis sasargeblod, Tumca, axlaxan moxda Zalian samwuxaro faqti, `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ maJoritari deputati gardaicvala da erTmaneTis pirispir darCa 17/17-ze, anu `qarTuli ocneba~ plus gaxarias partiis is erTi damoukidebeli kandidati.
– isic `qarTuli ocnebis~ momxre gaxda?
– ara, magram damoukidebeli pozicia uWiravs, Tanac `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ sastiki winaaRmdegia da Tuki qalaqisTvis sasicocxlo mniSvnelobis gadawyvetilebis miReba gaxdeba saWiro, darwmunebuli var, adekvatur arCevans gaakeTebs.
– `lelos~ ra pozicia aqvs?
-`lelo~ `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ satelitia, damoukidebel gadawyvetilebas ver miiRebs, rac daamtkica, rodesac es ukanaskneli misi kandidatis wamoyenebas apirebda sakrebulos Tavmjdomaris postze. amitom, rodesac sakrebulo pirvel jerze Seikriba, `erTianma nacionalurma moZraobam~ pirvel sesiaSi `lelosTan~ erTad miiRo monawileoba, xolo gaxarias partiam – ara. Sesabamisad, ver airCies Tavmjdomare, komisiis Tavmjdomareebi da wevrebi. mxolod `qarTulma ocnebam~ SeZlo fraqciis Camoyalibeba. aseTi tipis sakrebulo ver ifunqcionirebs, iqneba uunaro, rac xels aZlevs `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebs, raTa kidev erTxel aRaSfoTon Cveni moqalaqeebi da sakrebulos muSaobis SeCereba isev da isev, xelisuflebas gadmoabralon. maT arc is edardebaT, rom qalaqi gaCerdeba, rom viRac avariul saxlSi cxovrobs, sxvas – socialuri daxmareba sWirdeba, gza aris dasagebi, wyalia misayvani da a.S. Tavad iciT, ramden rames akeTebs municipaliteti, magram am xalxs mxolod ganwyobebi da Sefasebebi awuxebT, cdiloben, yvela gziT xalxi negatiurad ganawyon mmarTveli partiis mimarT.
– gardacvlili deputati nugzar futkaraZe vin da ra formiT unda Caanacvlos sakrebuloSi?
– batoni nugzaris gardacvalebis Semdeg, cxadia, dRis wesrigSi dadga ganmeorebiTi arCevnebis Catarebis sakiTxi, romelSic yvela politikuri partia sakuTari maJoritarobis kandidatiT miiRebs monawileobas.
– Tu gaqvT gamarjvebis imedi? am xalxma erTxel ukve misca xma `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ . . .
– cxadia, kidev erTi politikuri Widilis asparezi gvelis. rac Seexeba gamarjvebas, vfiqrob, gvaqvs sakmaod didi upiratesoba. aqve aRvniSnav, rom Zalian cudia da Zneli, rodesac pirovnebis gardacvalebis gamo tardeba arCevnebi, magram ra unda vqnaT, sicocxle grZeldeba . . . Tuki `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ kandidati gaimarjvebs, maSin ZalTa balansi opoziciis mxares iqneba da isini isev moaxerxeben SeaCeron qalaqis ganviTareba, magram Tuki Cveni kandidati gava, maSin baTumis municipaliteti gaagrZelebs muSaobas Cveul ritmSi da SevZlebT, srulyofilad vmarToT baTumi.
– sakrebulos sxdomaze ukmayofileba gamoTqva opoziciam, rom `qarTulma ocnebam~ ukve daiwyo qalaqis am ubanSi winasaarCevno kampania.
– ratom arian ukmayofilo, ver gavige. piradad vaxldi qalaqis mers, vikvlevdiT, ras iTxovs xalxi, magram es ar xdeba qulebis dasawerad. Cven muSaobas arCevnebiT ar viwyebT da ar vasrulebT. batoni nugzari cocxali brZandeboda, piradad me rom davdiodi da vxvdebodi mosaxleobas. amis TviTmxilvelebi xom arseboben, Tu amazec ityvian, rom vicodi ra tragediac moxdeboda? or ukiduresobaSi ar unda Cavardes adamiani.
– rogor SeafasebdiT saakaSvilis sityvas sasamarTloze?
– martivad rom vTqvaT, saakaSvils axlac kovzi nacarSi Cauvarda da mixvda, rom xelisufleba arc ise sustia, rogorc mas warmoedgina – saxelmwifo institutebi da samarTaldamcavi sistema gamarTulad muSaobs. is Seecada emociuri datvirTviT esaubra da amiT amomrCevlis guli moego, magram yvelam kargad dainaxa, rom mis mimarTvaSi fantazia realur faqtebze gacilebiT meti iyo. gandidebis maniiT Sepyrobili, fsiqoziT daavadebuli adamianis sityvaze ra unda vTqva, aRar vici. me mrcxvenia, rom Cems qveyanas hyavda fsiqikurad gauwonasworebeli prezidenti. mixeil saakaSvilis mmarTvelobis dros saqarTveloSi xdeboda uamravi danaSauli, romelsac Tavad mmarTveli gundi Cadioda. saakaSvils amaze pasuxismgeblobac ar auRia da bodiSic ar mouxdia im adamianebisTvis, romlebic awama, gaZarcva, demoralizebuli da gaubedurebuli datova.
– moulodneli iyo saakaSvilis mxridan Serigebaze saubaric.
– me ar mjera arc misi monaniebis da arc Serigebis survilis. aqac TamaSobs raRac absurdul TamaSs, romlis wesebsac Tavad adgens da Tavad arRvevs. vis sjera misi aRmSeneblobis, vis unda mis mier `ayvavebuli~ qveyana. Turme cixidan unda gamoviyvanoT mxolod imis gamo, qveynis mesame prezidenti rom iyo.
– mis am gancxadebebs saqarTvelos mosaxleobis sakmaod didi nawili eTanxmeba, rac arCevnebSic gamoikveTa.
– garwmunebT, sul male rigiTi moqalaqeebi ki ara, sakuTari gundis wevrebi gaunawyendebian saakaSvils. ukve ikveTeba `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ liderebis ukmayofileba am kuTxiT. kaci sityviT rom gamoxval, sakuTar Tavs utifrad iqeb da Senive gundis wamyvan wevrebs arsad asaxeleb, sxva Tu araferi, gandidebis maniiT xar Sepyrobili. Cvenc kargad viciT, rom misi xelisuflebaSi mosvlis dRidan bevri ram gakeTda, saxelmwifo institutebi gaimarTa garkveulwilad, magram adamiani mourideblad rom iZaxis, mxolod Cemi damsaxurebaa es yvelaferi, mxolod me gavakeTeo da amiT sakuTari egos win wamowevas cdilobs, ver gamodgeba gunduri TamaSisTvis. es daadastura kidec mmarTvelobis diqtaturiT. axla miSa CixSia moqceuli da sxvebze gadabralebiT apirebs Tavis daZvrenas. mxolod susti nebisyofis adamiani akeTebs amas, iseTi, romelsac sakuTari Tavis garda aravin adardebs. an ra iyo, rodesac bavSviviT gajiutebuli acxadebda: ar vimkurnaleb, ar SevWam Tu televizori ar Semomitaneso da sxv. miTxariT erTi, msgavsi qceva Seefereba qveynis prezidentad namyof adamians? aqac Cans, vin edga Cvens qveyanas saTaveSi da ra dReSi iyo mosaxleoba misi mmarTvelobis dros.
– ucnaurad mogveCvena yvelas, rodesac saakaSvilma sakuTari meuRlis dadanaSaulebac moiTxova.
– diax, marTlac saSineli mosasmeni iyo. Cven varT qarTvelebi, ojaxs da tradiciebs did pativs vcemT, misi erTgulebiT gamovirCeviT. kaci, romelic misabaZad miaCnia mis momxreebs da gamoacxadebs, Cems pirvel cols meti aqvs gaxarjulio, rogor unda miiRon seriozulad, aRar vici. amas, Jargonze rom vTqvaT, arc kai biWobaSi gapatieben da arc elitarul sazogadoebaSi. an is rad Rirs, feisbuqiT rom amcno cols, axali meuRle myavso. evropas rom edreba, kargad moikiTxos, iq rogor aRiqvamen msgavs Temebs. Tanamdebobis pirebs aseT skandalebs aravin patiobs, Tema sruldeba an impiCmentiT an sxva sadamsjelo meqanizmebis CarTviT. rodesac pirs eris Tavkacobaze gaqvs pretenzia, acxadeb, rom pirveli qarTuli saxelmwifo Sen Seqmeni da lamis mesiad mogvevline, unda icode, rom Seni piradi cxovreba ukve sajaroa da yvela interesdeba, ra mdgomareoba gaqvs ojaxSi. aseTi adamiani ojaxis tradiciebs, mis siwmindes unda icavdes da pirSi ar unda gvaxlides yovelgvar sisaZagles. saakaSvilma uari ganacxada saqarTvelos moqalaqeobaze imis SiSiT, ar damiWirono, acxadebda, ukrainis moqalaqe varo, ukrainis himnze gulze xels idebda da cremlebs iwmendda, maSin ar unda gasCenoda pretenziebi saqarTvelos prezidentobisTvis politikur brZolaze. CamosvliT, man gaakeTa arCevani – misi adgilia cixeSi, anu iq, sadac axla imyofeba. sasamarTlos ganaCenSi veravin Caereva, magram vimedovnebT, rom is miiRebs sakadris sasjels, miusjian Tavisuflebis aRkveTas imdeni xniT, ramdenic daimsaxura.
– didi vnebaTRelva mohyva istoriis saxelmZRvaneloSi biZina ivaniSvilis, rogorc qvelmoqmedisa da mecenatis Sesaxeb informaciis Setanas. ra komentars gaakeTebT amaze?
– saqarTveloSi gvyavda, gvyavs da gveyoleba gamoCenili adamianebi, maT Soris iyvnen iseTebi, romelTac rogorc cud, aseve karg konteqstSi moixsenieben. ra Tqma unda, mixeil saakaSvilic unda Sesuliyo da Sevida kidec istoriis saxelmZRvaneloSi, rogorc 2003 wlis vardebis revoluciis Semoqmedi. man xalxs moutana realuri imedi, rom uZraobis Savbneli xana dasruldeboda da winsvla gveqneboda. daiwyo kidec aRmSeneblobis procesi, magram sakuTarma egom sZlia da piradi interesebis relsebze gadaiyvana. axla ganvixiloT ivaniSvili. es adamiani iyo da rCeba im pirovnebad, romelmac Zalian bevri sasikeTo saqme gaakeTa rogorc erisTvis, ise qveynisTvis. Tavi davaneboT politikas, ramdeni qvelmoqmedeba gaswia batonma biZinam saqarTvelosTvis? yvelaze uxeSi gaTvliT, 4 miliardze meti Tanxa Cado sxvadasxva proeqtSi. rodesac vsaubrobT saganZuris dabrunebaze, samebis eklesiis aSenebaze da uamrav sxva saqmeze, xom viciT, rom es yvelaferi ivaniSvilis damsaxurebaa. Cven gvyavda ilia WavWavaZe, eqvTime TayaiSvili . . . gvyavda saxelmwifoebrivad moazrovne adamianebi, saqmis mkeTeblebi. amasTan, gvyavda moRalateebi, garewrebi, mkvlelebi, jalaTebi – isinic Sevidnen istoriaSi. warsuli unda vicodeT, ar daviviwyoT. momavali Taoba yvelas miuzRavs sakadriss. aqedan gamomdinare, Cemi subieqturi da obieqturi azria, rom biZina ivaniSvili unda Sevides istoriaSi. erTaderTi protesti miCndeba am mimarTulebiT, rom batoni biZinas yvela damsaxureba iq ar aris saTanadod mocemuli, Zalian mcire, zogadi doziT Seitanes misi qvelmoqmedeba. darwmunebuli var, saukuneebi gava da ivaniSvilis Rvawls sul sxvagvarad, gacilebiT ukeT Seafaseben, iseve, rogorc zviad gamsaxurdias, merab kostavas da a.S. Cven patara saxelmwifo varT, sadac saukunis ganmavlobaSi ibadeba erisTvis Tavganwiruli ramdenime adamiani. maT Soris moviazreb biZina ivaniSvilsac, romelmac gadado sakuTari kapitali, biznesi, ojaxuri interesebi da Tavi gaswira saqarTvelos keTildReobisTvis. ase mwams da vfiqrob. politikuri sarCuli rom ara, arc sxvas eqneboda gansxvavebuli mosazreba.
– saakaSvili da misi gundi sul sxvagvarad fiqrobs . . .
– rodesac dafinanseba sWirdeboda, maSin xom edga gverdiT batoni biZina da ufinansebda sxvadasxva Zvirian proeqts? mis dros ganxorcielebuli TiTqmis yvela mniSvnelovani reforma ivaniSvilma daafinansa. biZina wamovida miSasgan, rodesac dainaxa, am kacis gaumaZRroba, rom qveynisa da erisTvis ukve ar akeTebda arafers. ismis kiTxva, Tuki maSin iyo biZina miSasTvis qvelmoqmedi da didi biznesmeni, axla ratom gaxda miuRebeli misi TanagundelebisTvis, miTumetes, rom gacilebiT meti gaakeTa imis Semdeg. saxelmZRvaneloSi xom ar weria, RmerTi da mesiaao, weria is realuri qmedebebi, rac ganaxorciela saqarTvelosTvis. Tavis droze eqvTime TayaiSvils abuCad igdebdnen aqedan Casuli prezidenti da misi gundi, ra sisuleles akeTeb, gayide da icxovre im saganZuriT, Txaze rom xar damkidebulio . . . axla xom daufasda amagi, wmindanad Seracxes. me ar migulisxmia cocxali adamianis wmindanad Seracxva, magram elementaruli madlierebis grZnoba Tu ar gagaCnia misi amxela qvelmoqmedebis mimarT, nuRa lanZRav da nu awer im danaSauls, rac ar arsebobs.
– Tu SeiZleba, isev baTumis sakrebulos perspeqtivebs davubrundeT. rodis airCeven axal wevrs? gaJRerda, rom lamis maisamde gaiweleba sakrebulos funqcionirebis dawyeba.
– ara, aq sxva procedurebia gasaTvaliswinebeli – sakrebulos pirveli sxdomidan, romelzec Tavmjdomare ver airCies, 10 dRis ganmavlobaSi rogorc pozicias, ise opozicias SeuZlia waradginon Tavmjdomareobis kandidati da Sesabamisad, isev Caataron kenWisyra. Cven jer ar viciT, rodisaa CaniSnuli Semdegi sxdoma, magram qalaqisTvis sasikeTo gadawyvetilebebi rom miiRon da baTumis sakrebulom gamarTulad imuSaos, mzad varT dialogisTvis. movuwodebT sakrebulos yvela deputats, maT Soris damoukideblebsac, dafiqrdnen, sanam qalaqis funqcionirebisTvis safrTxis Semcvel gadawyvetilebas miiReben. aravis ainteresebs, ra ambicia gaqvs, qalaqs sWirdeba movla. Tuki muSaobas gavaCerebT, mosaxleoba uceb moisvris amaSi damnaSaves politikur sanagveze. CvenTvis amosavali wertilia baTumelTa momsaxureba, unda SevamciroT umweoTa raodenoba, gavzardoT ekonomikuri maCvenebeli da qalaqs mivceT amosunTqvis saSualeba.
