,,ერთი მილიონი ადამიანი ამბობს, უნდა დავიჭიროთო, მეორე მილიონი – გავათავისუფლოთო, გამოსავალს რაში ხედავთ?!”
õïüòï òïøâòäò 27 48 93 –
Serigebisa da SemorigebisTvis nabiji bevrjer gadavdgiT, maT Soris, 2012 wels kohabitaciiT, romelic Cveni dasavleli partniorebis rekomendaciiT da gverdSi dgomiT SevZeliT~, – amis Sesaxeb saparlamento umravlesobis wevrma, irakli zarquam ganacxada. misive TqmiT, Serigeba ar unda niSnavdes imas, rom damnaSaves danaSauli epatios:
`prezidentis iniciativa misasalmebeli, keTilSobiluri da amaRlebulia, qarTvelisTvis, qristianisTvis amaze ukeTesi ra unda iyos? Cven ar varT winaaRmdegi. SemorigebisTvis Zalian bevri nabiji gadavdgiT, maT Soris, 2012 wels kohabitaciis nawiliT, romelic iyo Cveni dasavleli partniorebis rekomendaciiTa da gverdSi dgomiT, magram CvenTvis mniSvnelovania isic, rom Serigeba ar niSnavdes im adamianebisTvis mitevebas, romlebic awamebdnen, klavdnen, aterorebdnen bizness, axalgazrdebs xocavdnen da a.S. eseni cixidan ar unda gamovuSvaT. Tu amas gulisxmoben am SerigebaSi, maSin procesi miuRebelia rogorc CemTvis, rigiTi politikosisTvis, aseve gundisTvisac. `nacmoZraobas~ surs, rom patimar saakaSvils mivutevoT da gareT gamovuSvaT, rac ar aris swori definicia. Tu Serigeba ar dgas samarTlianobaze, is fuWia~.
ras fiqrobs am Temaze skandaluri gamosvlebiT cnobili politikosi murman dumbaZe, amaze `aWarasTan~ interviuSi saubrobs.
– batono murman, erovnuli Serigebis ideaze ras gvetyviT?
– yvelafers Tavisi saxeli unda daerqvas. aq araviTar erovnul Serigebaze arc aris laparaki da arc unda iyos, radgan RmerTs madloba, aravin aravisze ar aris seriozulad gabrazebuli da arc Tofi gavardnila Cvens Soris, rogorc es moxda 30 wlis win, 90-ianebSi. es sircxvili qarTvelebma vWameT da mixaria, rom dRes ase ar gvaqvs saqme. modi, SevTanxmdeT terminze da Serigeba ki ara, daTqma, wesis Sedgena da masze daTanxmeba vuwodoT.
– wesi, rigi da kanoni xom isedac arsebobs, batono murman?
– ki, arsebobs, magram samwuxarod, ar sruldeba. amitom erTxel kidev, calke furcelze davweroT. or-sampunqtiani SeTanxmebac ki sakmarisi iqneba, raTa dasruldes politikuri polarizacia.
– iqneb isic gviTxraT, ra CavweroT am punqtebSi?
– pirvel rigSi, unda Caiweros, rom saqarTveloSi politikuri patimrebi ar unda arsebobdes. meore – vaRiaroT, rom qveyana politikur krizisSia.
– mmarTveli gundi amtkicebs, rom araviTari politikuri krizisi ar aris. . .
– Tavad am Serigebis idea adasturebs amas. Tanac, salome zurabiSvilma sajarod ganacxada, rom qveyana politikur krizisSia. geTanxmebiT, aqamde mmarTveli gundi amas ar aRiarebda, es pirvelad gaJRerda oficiozis piriT. Zalian mniSvnelovania, rom xelisuflebis erTi Sto, misi saprezidento xelisufleba acxadebs, rom qveyana moeqca seriozul ekonomikur, socialur da politikur CixSi, saidanac gamosavali mxolod molaparakeba-dalaparakeba-SeTanxmebaSia. – rom aucileblad unda Catardes vadamdeli arCevnebi. Tuki am sam sakiTxze SevTanxmdebiT, iqneba kargi. danarCeni, ukve, teqnikuri problemebis mogvarebis gzebis Zieba da dafiqsirebaa. amas kargad moaxerxebs orive mxare.
– Tqven fiqrobT, rom vadamdeli arCevnebi xels aZlevs opozicias, 2012 wlis Semdeg xom yvela waago?
– opozicias da pozicias xels aZlevs Tu ara vadamdeli arCevnebi, amaze ar dgas sakiTxi. saSualo statistikur moqalaqes awyobs, esaa mTavari. moqalaqes ar awyobs is, rom erTi tomara fqvili gaxda 100 lari, arc is, rom gaRviZebuls, puris fasi Secvlili xvdeba, sabanko kreditebze procentebi rom ezrdeba da arc is, qveyanas aranairi perspeqtiva rom ar gaaCnia. salome zurabiSvilis sityvebs gavimeoreb: `axalgazrdebs ra perspeqtivas vaZlevT Cvens qveyanaSi? isini garbian ucxoeTSi, esec ki sakmarisia, cxovrebis wesis Sesacvlelad~. amitom vacxadeb, rom proporciuli arCevnebi unda CavataroT, romelsac ar gavayalbebT, erTmaneTs xeli CamovarTvaT da erTad vmarToT Cveni ulamazesi saqarTvelo. unda SevTanxmdeT, rom viqnebiT dapirispirebulebi, opozicionerebi, magram arasodes gavxdebiT erTmaneTis mtrebi.
– rogor axsniT im faqts, rom pirvel Sexvedraze mividnen mcire partiebi, magram ar mivida opoziciis wamyvani politikuri Zala, romlis gulisTvisac Sedga Serigebis winasaaxalwlo zeimi?
– patara partiebis pozicia gasagebia, maT ar uWirT msgavsi gadawyvetilebis miReba, radgan didi eleqtorati ar hyavT. Tumca isic unda iTqvas, rom isini gavlenas axdenen sazogadoebis mcire nawilze da arcTu iSviaTad xdebian umravlesobis gadamwyveti Sualedi. igive situaciaSi, did partiebs, rogorc wesi, uWirT gadawyvetilebis miReba, magram Tu zeims ar daeswro, molaparakebis meore etapze xom mivida? anu es is SemTxvevaa, rodesac aravin unda gavamtyunoT. vinc mivida vaxSamze, RmerTma xeli moumarTos, vinc ar mivida, is ar lanZRavs imas, vinc mivida. esaa mTavari. anu vinc ar mivida, is ar aris winaaRmdegobaSi mosuli imasTan, vinc mivida da piriqiT, vinc mivida, is ar aris winaaRmdegobaSi misuli imasTan, vinc ar mivida.
– sakmaod rTulad gansazRvreT situacia, magram gasagebad. ramdeni laparaki gvWirdeba ubralo ram rom gaviTavisoT.
es mxolod Cven ar gvWirs, mTeli eri am dReSia. ramdenjerme abruneben erTi da igive umartives sakiTxsac ki. ver gaiges saakaSvilis sityvac, aTasgvari kudi gamoabes, arada, mimaCnia, rom is ar unda daepatimrebinaT. saakaSvilic amas ambobs, Tvlis, rom politikuri patimroba dauSvebelia, sxva mxriv ki pasuxismgeblobas, maT Soris samarTlebrivsac, aiRebs yvela im darRvevebze, raSic brali wauyenes.
– hoda, ratom ar iRebs pasuxismgeblobas, brali xom konkretul darRvevebze aqvs wayenebuli?
– pasuxs agebs saxelmwifos winaSe im SemTxvevaSi, Tuki iqneba samarTliani, damoukidebeli, miukerZoebeli sasamarTlo.
– es sasamarTlo xom misi Camoyalibebuli iyo?
– hoda, isic gavixsenoT, rom saakaSvilis mmarTvelobisas Sedga es sasamarTlo, romelsac 9 wlis ganmavlobaSi vaprotestebdiT, kategoriulad vewinaaRmdegebodiT mis gadawyvetilebebs. praqtikulad, iq araferi Secvlila arc sistemur da arc personificirebul doneze. aqedan gamomdinare, Tuki gvinda ar gavimeoroT im prezidentis Secdomebi, romelic axla sabraldebo skamze zis, unda gavasamarTloT samarTlianad.
– amisTvis ras gvTavazobT?
– CavataroT vadamdeli arCevnebi. pirvelive proeqtiT davakompleqtoT damoukidebeli, samarTliani sasamarTlo, risi ganxorcielebac ar gagviWirdeba, radgan recepti ukve gamowerilia. politikurma partiebma, 2020 wlamdec ki, saparlamento arCevnebamde, xeli movawereT imas, rom sasamarTlos suverenitets davTmobT da meore, mesame instanciaSi ucxoel mosamarTleebs CamoviyvanT meoTxedi saukuniT. raRac drois ganmavlobaSi ucxoelebma unda gaarCion Cveni saqmeebi, sxva gamosavali ar gvaqvs. vaRiaroT, rom qarTvelebma damoukidebeli sasamarTlo sistemis Seqmna ver uzrunvelvyaviT da mxolod xelisuflebis brali es namdvilad ar aris.
– Tqven ambobT, rom mTeli am procesebis Catarebis Semdeg unda gasamarTldes saakaSvili?
– diax, mxolod damoukidebeli sasamarTlos winaSe unda warsdges qveynis mesame prezidenti, sadac ganixileba is saeWvo garemoebebi, romelic saakaSvilsac exeba. eWvi didia, erTi milioni adamiani ambobs, unda daviWiroTo, meore milioni – unda gavaTavisufloTo. gamosavals raSi xedavT? Tuki Camoyalibdeba samarTliani sasamarTlo, mis winaSe Tamamad warsdgeba piri, romelic darwmunebulia sakuTar simarTleSi. amas acxadebs miSac, sxvas arafers.
– piradad Tqven misaRebad TvliT saakaSvilis dapatimrebas?
– ara, misi dapatimreba ar mimaCnia samarTlianad. kaci, 9 wlis ganmavlobaSi marTavda Cvens qveyanas. erTxel da samudamod unda movaxerxoT, rom SurisZiebiT ar vixelmZRvaneloT yoveli mTavrobis cvlilebisas. 2012 wlis 1 oqtombris ambebis monawile var. am brZolaSi saakaSvilis winaaRmdegi viyavi, magram arc erT SeTanxmebaSi ar Cagviweria, rom qveynis maSindel pirvel pirebs daviWerdiT, Tuki raime seriozuli sisxlis samarTlis danaSauli ar eqneboda Cadenili piradad mas.
– arada, xom iyo es yvelaferi, sakuTar Tavzec ki iwvnieT.
– is, rom sistema moqmedebda reJimis qveS, sruliadac ar adasturebs, rom girgvliani mokla uSualod mixeil saakaSvilma. arc me vucemivar maSindel prezidents da arc valeri gelaSvili. ver dasturdeba es, xolo Tu dadasturdeba, maSin pasuxs agebs samarTliani sasamarTlos winaSe. radgan msgavsi sasamarTlo ar gvyavs, gamodis `Sekerili saqme~. sanam marTlmsajuleba aseTi iqneba, yovelTvis ase vilaparakeb. igive muxlebiT SegveZlo SevardnaZec dagveWira, magram ar dagviWeria. arc aslan abaSiZe dauWeria saakaSvils, aravis mouTxovia misi eqstradireba da Zebnac ar gamoucxadebiaT.
– ramdenad marTebulad migaCniaT es mavne praqtika, rom ar vTxovdiT pasuxs, Tundac gaflangul biujetze?
– modiT, garCeva daviwyoT Semsruleblebidan, romlebic iyvnen aslanis, eduardis Tu miSas dros. girgvlianis saqmeze 6-wliani muxli aqvs wayenebuli mas, vinc damnaSaved miiCnies, magram valeri gelaSvili vinc awama da cema, is policieli siraZe, ivaniSvilis premierobis dros araTu dasajes, 2013 wels daawinaures saqalaqo sammarTvelos ufrosis moadgiled. rodesac siraZes awinaureb da saakaSvils iWer, maSin vityvi, rom marTlmsajuleba politikuria.
– ras iTxovda alasania, ratom Camovida?
– alasania ukve wavida. misca Cveneba. is saqarTvelos moqalaqea, qarTvelia da sakuTar qveyanaSi Camosvlis ufleba aqvs. damnaSaved rom egrZno Tavi, daimaleboda. unda SeveSvaT politikur marTlmsajulebas. arc es xelisuflebaa mudmivi, Seicvleba. ra gamodis, momavalma amaTze unda iZios Suri? amasac kategoriulad SevewinaaRmdegebi. es aris da es.
– rodis unda dawynardes situacia sakrebuloebSi, `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ ar mSviddeba.
– me ver vityvi, rom areulobas `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebi qmnian. axlaxans viyavi baTumis sakrebulos win gamarTul brifingze da sakuTari TvaliT vnaxe, rac xdeboda. rodesac sakrebulos wevri midis sxdomaze da mas iq xvdeba policiis kordoni, romelic xels uSlis meriis foieSi gadaadgilebaSi, es niSnavs, rom qveyanaSi aris seriozuli politikuri krizisi, rasac safuZvlad udevs is, rom xelisufleba ar xorcieldeba, maT Soris, adgilobriv TviTmmarTvelobebSic. gamosavali isev da isev, vadamdel arCevnebSia. sxvagvarad, erovnuli Tanxmobis, axali parlamentis arCevis da damoukidebeli sasamarTlos Seqmnis gareSe, qveyanaSi mSvidoba ver daisadgurebs.
– ra gagrZeleba eqneba prezidentis ideas?
– konkretuli SeTanxmebis da qmedebebis gareSe, laparaki darCeba laparakad, meti araferi. me veTanxmebi prezidents, raRac unda viRonoT, radgan qveyana seriozuli safrTxeebis winaSea aRmoCenili rogorc politikurad, ise socialurad da ekonomikurad. did xans msgavsi cxovreba ver gagrZeldeba. am sakiTxis gadaWras mxolod da mxolod politikuri nebeloba sWirdeba. salome zurabiSvils, rogorc qveynis mexuTe prezidents, amis funqciuri datvirTva da realuri Zalauflebac aqvs. misi valia, am problemebis gadasaWrelad politikur speqtrSi Caerios da polarizebis daSla scados, raTa saqarTvelos moqalaqeebma erTmaneTisken nabijebi gadadgan. saakaSvili rom politikuri patimaria, amas adasturebs mTeli dedamiwa, ruseTis da saqarTvelos mTavrobebis garda.
– ukrainac xom eTanxmeba mis dapatimrebas?
– ara, ukrainasac politikur patimrad miaCnia.
– Tqven ar moismineT ras ambobdnen masze ukrainis oficiozis warmomadgenlebi, rom biznesebs aterorebda, korufciuli sqemebiT moqmedebda da sxv.
– iqac arian misi oponentebi, es politikuri Sefasebaa. me samarTlebriv Sefasebaze vlaparakob. Tuki miSa korufcioneri iyo, maSin mas qonebac unda hqondes dagrovili, rac ar Cans. mxolod erTsarTuliani saxli aqvs kaxeTSi da TbilisSi, pekinis quCaze, bebias datovebuli bina. kunZulebs, romelsac abraleben, dokumenturi dadastureba unda, Torem mec vityvi mdinaraZeze milioneriao, saTanado dokumentaciis gareSe vin damijerebs?
– Tqveni partia Tu miiRebs momaval arCevnebSi monawileobas da gyavT Tu ara sakmarisi mxardamWerebi?
– vici, rom es imaze adre moxdeba, vidre Tqven eliT. vadamdeli, proporciuli, dabalprocentiani arCevnebi aucileblad dainiSneba, es aris aqsioma, mTavrobas ar aqvs sxva gamosavali da saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi gadaanawileben xmebs. swored maTzea damokidebuli, rogori momavali gveqneba da rogori xelisufleba gveyoleba.
