ვინ და რა უშლის ხელს პოლიტიკურ სტაბილურობას საქართველოში ?
ანანო ტაბიძე: 27 48 93 –
ramdenime dRea `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ liderebma da mxardamWerebma sayovelTao SimSilobis aqcia daiwyes. mTavari opoziciuri Zalis mTavari moTxovna saqarTvelos mesame prezidentis gaTavisuflebaa. ra SedegiT dasruldeba sayovelTao SimSiloba, ra bedi eweva patimar mixeil saakaSvils da rogor ganviTardeba qveyanaSi dRes arsebuli daZabuli politikuri viTareba – am da sxva saintereso sakiTxebze mixeil saakaSvilis reJimis yofilma patimarma, uflebadamcvelma Tamaz bakuriZem `aWarasTan~ isaubra.
– sayovelTao SimSilobas win uZRoda mixeil saakaSvilis biZis, Temur alasanias viziti saqarTveloSi. araoficialuri informaciiT, swored biZasTan Sexvedris Semdeg daavala qveynis yofilma prezidentma Tanapartielebs SimSilobis dawyeba, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, dafinansebas ara mxolod partias, aramed `mTavar arxsac~ Seuwyvetda.
– zogadad, saqarTveloSi arsebuli viTareba politikuri, socialuri Tu ekonomikuri, bevrad aris damokidebuli im procesebze, rac mTlianobaSi xdeba qveyanaSi. samarTali urmiT dadiso, naTqvamia da dRes bevri ambobs, rom mixeil saakaSvili ar SeiZleba iyos cixeSi, rom is aris prezidenti da saqarTvelos damaarsebeli. Tqven warmoidgineT, sazogadoebis garkveuli nawili amas ijerebs. daviT aRmaSeneblis, Tamar mefis qveyanaSi gveubnebian, rom mixeil saakaSvilma Seqmna da daaarsa saqarTvelo. Tqveni gazeTis mkiTxvelma, visac Cemi pozicia moewoneba, ar minda Tqvas, rom `qocia~ Tamaz bakuriZe, an visac ar moewoneba, `nacoba~ damabralos. gverdze gadavdoT Cemi politikuri gemovneba da rogorc rigiTi moqalaqe da ara – uflebadamcveli, vityvi, rom qveynis mTavarsardalma dakarga saqarTvelos teritoriis 20 procenti. rogor dakarga an dakargvas win ra procesebi uswrebda, sxva Temaa, Tumca faqtia, rom swored mixeil saakaSvilis prezidentobis dros davkargeT teritoriebi. mTavarsardlis miRwevad rac SeiZleba CaiTvalos, es teritoriebis dacva da SenarCunebaa. amasTan, Tavisi prezidentobis dros, asze meti strategiuli obieqti gadasca rusebs. vsvam kiTxvas: rogoraa mixeil saakaSvili Cveni qveynis damaarsebeli? Tu imis gamo unda mivaniWoT es statusi, rom quCebi gakeTda, Senoba-nagebobebi gadaReba? komunistebis drosac gvqonda mowesrigebuli quCebi da ganaTeba, gazi, wyali, deni, gazeTic da televiziac. maSin davbrundeT komunistur wyobaSi. Cven sanam ar viswavliT movlenebis swor Sefasebas, manamde araferi gveSveleba, vidre mxdal politikosebs da brZolis velidan gaqceulebs gmirebad ar warmogviCenen.
– faqtia da 2021 wlis adgilobrivi TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebmac gvaCvena, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ qarTul politikur velze kvlavac rCeba mTavar opoziciur Zalad da es aris is politikuri Zala, romlis drosac irRveoda adamianis uflebebi, iyo wameba, mosyidva, ukanono daWerebi, qonebis CamorTmeva da sxva. Tqvenc xom wina reJimis erT-erTi dazaralebuli xarT. mainc ratom dauWira mosaxleobis arc Tu cota raodenobam mxari am partias? adamianebs warsuli daaviwydaT?
– ara, warsuli ki ar daaviwyda xalxs, daaviwyebines. vfiqrob, arCevnebis dros da, zogadad, politikaSi mTavari piaria. arCevnebis bedic didwiladaa damokidebuli winasaarCevno propagandaze. Cven rom gamovacaloT `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ ramdenime televizia, romlebic am partiis interesebis gamtareblebi arian, Tqven warmoidgineT, ar eqneba is mxardaWera, rac aqvs. medias, iciT, rom meoTxe xelisuflebas uwodeben da didi Zalac aqvs. erTxel erTma opozicionerma Tqva, hitlers `rusTavi 2~ rom hqonoda, dResac msoflios egoneboda, rom omi man moigoo. amitom, ara partiis, aramed mediis damsaxurebaa is Sedegi, rac `erTianma nacionalurma moZraobam~ dado, swored media acocxlebs am partias da kidev erTxel vityvi, is ramdenime mediasaSualeba rom gamovacaloT, ver miiRebs mosaxleobis 10 procentze metis mxardaWeras. bevrma SeiZleba Tqvas da xSiradac meubnebian, rom demokratiuli sazogadoebis ganviTarebisTvis saWiroa `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ arsebobdes, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, erTpirovnuli mmarTveli iqneba `qarTuli ocnebao~. ratom unda iyos mTavari opoziciuri Zala `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~? modiT, mivceT sxva partiebs, axal saxeebs, liderebs, kargi warsulis mqone adamianebs SesaZlebloba, rom movidnen opoziciaSi da Semdeg xelisuflebaSic ki.
– samwuxarod, patara partiebs ar undaT an ver bedaven calke TamaSi iTamaSon da urCevniaT, `erTian nacionalur moZraobasTan~ erTad iyvnen. Tqven rogor fiqrobT, ratom ar midian calke?
– imitom, rom bevradaa damokidebuli Tavis damkvidreba imaze, Tu visTvisaa mediasivrce gaxsnili. ar eZlevaT sxva partiebs gamoCenis SesaZlebloba. elementarul magaliTs moviyvan, ramdenime dRis win Cven gvqonda saxalxo socialuri protesti da imis gamo, rom iq ar iyvnen `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebi, televiziebma ar gaaSuqes. xalxic kiTxulobda, ratom ar movidneno da iqve pasuxic gasces TavianT kiTxvas – ar movidnen televiziebi imitom, rom taSs ar vukravT `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ da xelisuflebas ar vaginebTo. xalxs, xSir SemTxvevaSi, sulac ar ainteresebs politika, ainteresebs Tavisi socialuri mdgomareoba.
– gindaT TqvaT, rom saqarTveloSi damoukidebeli media ar arsebobs?
– samwuxarod, Cvens qveyanaSi ar arsebobs srulad damoukidebeli media. mediac unda gasufTavdes da politikac, ramdeni dro dasWirdeba amas, Zneli saTqmelia. Tumca dRes arsebuli viTareba, rac gvaqvs yofili prezidentis dakavebasTan dakavSirebiT, misi patimroba, aseve is, rom ar unda ijdes cixeSi, radgan prezidenti iyo, arasworia. me Tu danaSauls Caviden, saxelmwifo momTxovs pasuxs da Camsvams cixeSi, ratom ar unda ijdes cixeSi mixeil saakaSvili? damisaxeleT msoflioSi precedenti, rodesac maRali rangis Cinosans danaSauli daumtkicda da sasjeli ar moixada. magaliTad, italiaSi, safrangeTSi, avstriaSi da sxva qveynebSi prezidentebsac akaveben da premier-ministrebsac. Cven sanam ar miveCveviT imas, rom damnaSavem pasuxi unda agos, manamde samarTlebrivi saxelmwifo ar gveqneba.
– ara rogorc saakaSvilis reJimisdroindel ukanono patimars, rogorc uflebadamcvels minda gkiTxoT, ra momentSi Seilaxa patimar mixeil saakaSvilis uflebebi?
– Zalian kargad maxsovs is pirobebi, moTxovnebi, kanonebi da damokidebulebebi, rac Tavad mixeil saakaSvilma Seqmna Tavisi mmarTvelobisas. `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ xelisuflebaSi yofnis dros, roca daiwyo gaxmaurebuli saqmeebis ganxilvebi, girgvlianis, molaSvilis, maT Soris, Tundac Cemi saqmisac da televiziebiT gadaicemoda procesebi, bokeriam, saakaSvilma da adeiSvilma gadawyvites sasamarTlo sxdomebi daxuruliyo da ici, ra qnes? kanonSi cvlileba Seitanes da televiziis kamerebis Sesvla da procesebis gadaReba akrZales. aseve, gamoacxades nulovani tolerantoba, rac niSnavda imas, rom ar moqmedebda vadaze adre gaTavisufleba. bevri adamiani sikvdilis piras rom iyo misuli, ramdenime saaTiT adre gadahyavdaT samoqalaqo saavadmyofoSi, rom misi gardacvaleba cixeSi ar dafiqsirebuliyo. aRarafers vambob imaze, rom morgebi gadavsebuli iyo. gauqmda moklevadiani da grZelvadiani paemnebi da yvelaferi, riTac ki SeiZleboda patimars esargebla. dRes mixeil saakaSvilis araadamianur mopyrobaSi da wamebaSi ras gulisxmoben ver vxvdebi, dakavebis momentidan davinaxeT, rom Zvirad Rirebuli jipebiT da didi pativiT SeabrZanes cixeSi. iZaxes, SimSilobso da yvelam vnaxeT, arc Tafls ar iklebda da arc fafebs. roca patimari erTi dawesebulebidan meoreSi gadahyavdaT, iciT, ra xdeboda? me xom arc zRapars vyvebi da arc sxvis monaTxrobs. TiTo patimari arasdros mihyavdaT, xdeboda jgufurad gadayvana, moamzadebdnen maT da cixidan gasvlis dros, yvela gadioda `zmeikas~ – anu cixidan gasvlisas patimrebs ayenebdnen sityvier da fizikur Seuracxyofas da axal dawesebulebaSi Sesvlisas igive xdeboda. umowyalod eqceodnen msjavrdebulebs, gadahyavdaT karantinSi. mixeil saakaSvili karantinSi gaatares? miT ufro ucxoeTidan iyo Semosuli. Tma gadaparses? – ara! piriqiT, mas Seuqmnes gansakuTrebuli pirobebi. me marTla ar mesiamovna im kadrebis yureba, roca mas badragi miaTrevda. SesaZlebeli iyo sxva formiT SeeyvanaT igi cixeSi, magram Cven isic vnaxeT, Tu rogor moeqca patimari mixeil saakaSvili cixis TanamSromlebs, rogor uZaxa monebi, moRalateebi, is adamianebi ki mixeil saakaSvils bodiSs uxdidnen da batono prezidentoo, mimarTavdnen. mixeil saakaSvilis xelisuflebis dros rom patimari ase moqceuliyo, iciT, ras uzamdnen? arc meti, arc naklebi – moklavdnen!
– Temur alasanias Camosvla ras ukavSirdeboda? SimSilobis brZaneba rom gaecaT, Tu is mesiji, romelic gaaJRera mixeil saakaSvilma, rom siamovnebiT dajdeboda gansajelis skamze sandrasTan erTad, cudad eniSna biZas?
– erT-erTi ucxouri telearxis warmomadgenlebi iyvnen Camosulebi baTumSi da mkiTxes mixeil saakaSvilze. vuTxari, rom fsiqikurad daavadebulia, sWirdeba mkurnaloba da ar SeiZleba mas dascino-meTqi. socialur qselSi atyda ambavi, rogor Tqva es Tamaz bakuriZemo, dRes ki misi eqimebi, ojaxis wevrebi gamodian da amboben, rom mixeil saakaSvils fsiqiatri sWirdeba. gamarTlda Cemi naTqvami. Temur alasanias Camosvla pirdapir kavSirSia mixeil saakaSvilis patimrobasTan. is CemTvis aranairi avtoriteti ar aris, is aris ucxouri specsamsaxurebis interesebis gamtarebeli. mas saqarTvelo da qarTveli xalxi ar uyvars. Temur alasanias garkveuli funqcia akisria Cveni qveynis sazianod. misTvis qarTvel xalxs aeroportSive unda mieyenebina Seuracxyofa, roca qarTul miwaze fexi dadga. yvelas gvaxsovs is Canaweri, sadac qarTvelebs Seuracxyofs da mas qarTveli xalxisganac unda mieRo samagiero. magram, sazogadoebis nawili gaborotebulia da sulac ar adardebs alasania da saakaSvili, nawili ki mimtevebelia. bevrma arc ki icoda, rom Camodioda. konkretulad Tu ratom iyo Camosuli, Tqma Znelia, magram albaT imitom Camovida, rom agrZnobina `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ da maT erT-erT mTavar sayrden telearxs, rom ver akeTebT imas, rac gasakeTebelia da miSa aqamde unda yofiliyo Tavisufalio.
– ra perspeqtiva aqvs mixeil saakaSvils, gaaTavisufleben? rogori mxardaWera aqvs ucxoeTidan?
– Cven ukve davinaxeT, rom mas ucxoeTis mxardaWera ar aqvs da es bunebrivicaa. Cveni megobari qveynebi mixeil saakaSvilTan ki ara, saqarTvelosTan megobroben da imegobreben momavalSic. maT gaakeTes arCevani, rom saqarTvelos da qarTvel xalxs dauWiron mxari evropul gzaze, evropuli ojaxis wevri gavxdeT da didi mniSvneloba ar aqvs saxel-gvarebs, Tu vin iqneba saTaveSi. mixeil saakaSvilis dakavebisas romelime qveynis saxelmwifo meTaurma an moqmedma liderma gaakeTa gancxadeba? – ara! SedarebisTvis vityvi, roca navalni daakaves, amerikis, germaniis da sxva qveynebis liderebma maSinve gaakeTes gancxadeba, rom ruseTis xelisuflebam dauyovnebliv unda gaaTavisuflos is. axla vsvam kiTxvas, romelma moqmedma liderma ganacxada, rom mixeil saakaSvili politikuri, ukanono patimaria da unda gaTavisufldes? ramdenime pensiaze gasulma liderma ki Tqva msgavsi ram . . . rac movimineT amerikis saxelmwifo departamentisgan, iyo is, rom patimar mixeil saakaSvils hqonoda samedicino mxardaWera. esec swori midgomaa, aravis aqvs ufleba Cveni qveynis samarTlebriv sivrceSi SemoiWras da gvibrZanos, vin daakavon da vin gaaTavisuflon. yvelam icis, rom mixeil saakaSvili iyo diqtatori, avtoritaruli mmarTveli, arastabiluri da araprognozirebadi lideri. man Tavis droze ar mousmina Statebs, evropas da mTeli msoflio kinaRam xifaTSi Caagdo. aseT adamians da mis partias aravin miscems xelisuflebaSi mobrunebis SesaZleblobas.
– Temur alasaniam maleve datova saqarTvelo . . .
– es mosalodnelic iyo. sxvaTa Soris, mixeil saakaSvilis prezidentobis dros bevri biznesmeni hyavs daterorebuli Temur alasanias. jer lobirebda da mere gadaagdebda xolme. baTumSic iyo erTi biznesmeni, romelsac levan varSalomiZem daureka erT dRes da uTxra, erT kacs unda Sexvde saswrafodo. es kaci Temur alasania iyo, romelmac biznesmens uTxra, rom 600 aTasi dolari sWirdeboda saswrafod. biznesmenma dro iTxova, bankidan Tanxis gamotanas Sesabamisi procedurebi sWirdebao, ramdenime dReSi ki Temur alasanias fuli gadauricxa. xdeba ise, rom am faqtidan male mixeil saakaSvili vertmfreniT wres artyams baTums da am biznesmenis 18-sarTulian sastumros, romlis mSeneblobac TiTqmis dasrulebuli iyo, vertmfreni kinaRam wamoedo. imdroindelma prezidentma ori sarTulis demontaJis brZaneba gasca. daurekes biznesmens da es is biznesmeni iyo, romelmac Temur alasanias 600 aTasi dolari gadauricxa. ifiqra, axla me vTxov Temur alasanias daxmarebaso. marTlac sTxova mas Suamdgomloba mixeil saakaSvilTan da isic dahpirda daxmarebas, magram ramdenimedRiani lodinis Semdeg, roca Seexmiana alasanias, pasuxad uari miiRo. ori sarTulic moaSlevines. xelisufleba rom Seicvala, biznesmenma Temur alasnias fulis dabruneba sTxova, magram . . . aseTi araerTi faqtia . . .
– Cven vnaxeT saparlamento arCevnebis Semdeg `erTianma nacionalurma moZraobam~ 6 Tve gaatara quCaSi da bolos mainc Sevida sakanonmdeblo organoSi. rogor dasruldeba amJamindeli situacia?
– vidre `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ iqneba mTavari opoziciuri Zala da eqneba mcdeloba xelisuflebaSi mobrunebis, manamde Cvens qveyanas mSvidoba da stabiluroba ar eRirseba. opoziciac unda arsebobdes da kritikac unda ismodes teleeTerebidan, magram xalxs ar unda amyofebde stresis qveS. koaliciur mTavrobaze rom saubroben, ras fiqrobT, `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ vinmes rames dauTmobs? ar vfiqrob, rom es partia unda gaqres qarTuli politikidan, ara, unda gasufTavdes arakonstruqciuli adamianebisgan. ver vityvi, rom iq yvela cudi adamiania. mixeil saakaSvili unda CavabaroT warsuls, isic da misi mxardamWerebic unda Seeguon imas, rom xelisuflebaSi ver mobrundebian – amas arc Cveni saerTaSoriso partniorebi dauSveben da arc sazogadoebis 70 procenti.
– dabolos, batono Tamaz, aslan abaSiZis qonebas ra bedi ewia?
– didZalia dakarguli. roca davsvi kiTxva, sad wavida es qoneba-meTqi, pasuxi veravin gamca. aWaras 25 vertmfreni hqonda, sad wavida?! 10 SesaZloa, gafuWda . . . yvela avtonomiuri respublikis balansze iyo. aseve, ori TviTmfrinavi sad gaqra? is Zvirad Rirebuli manqanebi – hamerebi, mersedesebi, romlebic saxelmwifo balansze iyo?! xalxs axsovs, stadionze rom gamofines avtomobilebi da mixeil saakaSvilis sityvebic – es avtomobilebi aslan abaSiZes emsaxureboda da dReidan Tqven mogemsaxurebaT, xalxoo. is manqanebi TbilisSi waiyvanes da gavleniani Tanamdebobis pirebis colebma da megobrebma moixmares. es ar aris saxelmwifo qonebis miTviseba da gaflangva?! moqmedi xelisuflebaa damnaSave, rom ar gamoiZia, sad wavida regionis qoneba!
