“კანდიდატი უნდა წარადგინოს იმ გუნდმა და პარტიამ, რომელსაც დაეღუპა ადამიანი”
ირმა ცეცხლაძე: 27 48 93 –
baTumis sakrebuloSi opoziciis mier daanonsebul meore sxdomazec ar Sedga kvorumi fraqcia `qarTuli ocnebis~ gamoucxadeblobis gamo. ras fiqroben am Temaze opoziciis warmomadgenlebi? `aWarasTan~ sakrebulos Tavmjdomaris postze wardgenili `lelos~ politsabWos wevri, deputati irakli kupraZe saubrobs.
– rogor SeafasebT fraqcia `qarTuli ocnebis~ wevrebis boikots, samagiero gadagixades pirveli sxdomis datovebisTvis?
– sakmaod ucnauri iyo `qarTuli ocnebis~ mxridan sxdomis boikotireba. mosmenili maqvs Tengiz afxazavas argumentebi am Temaze da arcerTi ar mimaCnia seriozulad, ris gamoc SesaZlebeli iyo Tavis Sekaveba. Tu ar surdaT sakiTxebis gatana da damtkiceba, SeeZloT, ubralod, mosuliyvnen, sakuTari azri daefiqsirebinaT, kenWisyris momentSi Tavi SeekavebinaT da a.S. anu arsebobs SeTavazebul winadadebebze uaris Tqmis sxvadasxva berketi. sxdomaze xelisuflebis partiis dauswrebloba, romelic, faqtobrivad, qalaqis marTvaSia CarTuli, ufro gaugebari da miuRebelia, vidre opoziciis boikoti. amaze pasuxi ar gamaCnia, albaT, Tavad aqvT Tavis gasamarTlebeli mizezi.
– ki, Tengiz afxazavam ganacxada, rom am sxdomis erT-erT sakiTxad gadioda 2022 wlis biujetis aqtis baTilad cnobis sakiTxi da ar surdaT aqamde arnaxuli, uprecedento biujetis gabaTileba.
– diax, es moimizezes, magram rac Seexeba biujets, imitom gvindoda misi gabaTileba, rom masSi Semcirebulia yvelaze mniSvnelovani dafinansebebi. im qalaqSi, romelic yvela wvimis dros itboreba da udidesi finansuri zarali adgeba mosaxleobas, saniaRvre sistemebis movla-patronobis da reabilitaciis xarjebi 5 milioniTaa Semcirebuli. aseve moakles socialurad SeWirvebulTa daxmarebis Tanxebs maSin, rodesac gazrdilia umweo adamianebis raodenoba, ufaso sasadiloebis dafinansebas da sxva.
– rogorc Tqves, piriqiT, momatebulia yvela programis dafinanseba.
– ara, es ase ar aris, momatebuli aqvT xelfasebi, maT Soris sakrebulos deputatebis, fraqciebis Tavmjdomareebis. ucnauria, rodesac baTumelTa keTildReobaze saubrobs Tengiz afxazava, vinc pirvelive sxdomaze aregistrirebs fraqcias sakuTari TavmjdomareobiT da iniSnavs 5 moadgiles, romelsac ianvridan daaxloebiT 2 aTas laramde gaezrdeba xelfasi.
– mas xom hqonda am fraqciis Seqmnis iuridiuli ufleba?
– maSin, rodesac sakrebulo fizikurad ver Sedga da ver axorcielebs uflebamosilebas, romeli fraqciis registraciazea saubari?! aqedan gamomdinare vaskvniT, rom fraqciis Seqmnis daCqarebis erTaderTi motivaciaa maRali xelfasebi. amitom vTvli, rom aseT viTarebaSi saxalxo interesebze saubari, rbilad rom vTqvaT, didi uxerxulobaa `qarTuli ocnebis~ deputaciis mxridan.
– `qarTuli ocnebis~ wevrebi Tvlian, rom maTi TaosnobiT stabiluroba iqneba qalaqSic da qveyanaSic.
– stabiluroba ver iqneba, rodesac sakrebulos wevrebs biujetSi cvlilebis Setanis elementaruli SesaZlebloba ar gaaCniaT. cvlilebebis aucilebloba, darwmunebuli var, gaCndeba ukve ianvridan, rac iTxovs sakrebulos aqtiur muSaobas. naTelia, rom `qarTul ocnebas~ miznad aqvs dasaxuli ori gza: pirveli – maisamde am procesis gaWianureba da gonio-kvariaTSi (gardacvlili nugzar futkaraZis olqi) arCevnebis mogebiT myife da msxvrevadi umravlesobis Seqmna; meore gzaa individualuri konsultaciebis gagrZeleba rig opozicioner deputatTan. amaSi igulisxmeba: SantaJi, muqara, qrTamis SeTavazeba. SegaxsenebT deputat nugzar futkaraZesTan konsultaciebs, romlis Canawerebic gavasajaroveT. maSin usamarTloba da ukanonoba daatexes Tavs baTums `qarTuli ocnebis~ warmomadgenlebma, amitom risi molodini unda mqondes am etapze, amis gansazRvra ar SemiZlia.
– anu ar apirebT `qarTul ocnebasTan~ molaparakebas?
– vTvli, rom raRac tipis komunikacia, SeTanxmeba aucilebelia, amis safuZveli ki unda gaxdes samarTlianoba – maTi mxridan baTumis sakrebulos opoziciurad aRiareba. es asec iyo. centraluri saarCevno komisiis oqmis mixedviT 16/19-ze TanafardobiT daiwyo aTvla, saidanac erTi deputati irakli TavdgiriZe – neitraluri gaxda, meore adamiani ki, vinc uari Tqva neitralur poziciaze – gardaicvala. aq mniSvnelovani iqneba damoukidebeli gamoZiebis nawili, risi imedic, ra Tqma unda, ar gvaqvs. nugzaris partiis mxridan am saqmeSi figurantebad moxseniebuli arian daviT da Tornike riJvaZeebi. radganac daviT riJvaZe ikavebs araformalurad xelmZRvanelis da formalurad moadgilis pozicias Zalovan uwyebaSi, SeuZlebelia gvqondes samarTliani gamoZiebis molodini.
– qalaqis biujeti 100 milioniTaa gazrdili . . .
– yvela qalaqis da municipalitetis biujeti yovelwliurad izrdeba. es bunebrivi procesia. `qarTuli ocneba~ rom ara, garantiis mocema SemiZlia, rom gacilebiT didi biujeti gveqneboda.
– amis garantiis mocemas rogor SeZlebT?
– elementarulad! qalaqSi rom gaiaroT, naxavT, rom pantapuntiT iketeba rigi komerciuli obieqtebi. lamis yvela Senobis vitrinas aweria – qiravdeba, iyideba. aseTi ekonomikuri kolafsi karga xania Cvens regions ar axsovs.
– ekonomikuri krizisi mTel msoflioSia pandemiis gamo.
– pandemiis arseboba Cvenc viciT, amanac daazarala biznesi, magram xelisuflebis mier ekonomikuri marTvis araefeqturobac naTelia, vxedavT, rogor muSaoben meriis Sps-ebi, a(a)ip-ebi, Sesabamisi samsaxurebi. vxedavT aramiznobriv xarjebs, romelic TvalsaCino, xelisgulze dadebuliviTaa. viciT Seusrulebeli tenderebis Sesaxeb, romelzec ar arsebobs monitoringis daskvnebi da aranairi kontrolis meqanizmebi. yvelafer amas martivad unda SevxedoT da vTqvaT, saxelmwifo uwyebis nawili, romelic xelisuflebisgan gamijnulia, magram sajaro samsaxurs warmoadgens (auditis samsaxurs vgulisxmob), maT daskvnebSi Caxedva da mxolod saTaurebis, im Tavebis, baTumis, aWaris nawilze romaa warmodgenili, wakiTxva, SemaZrwunebeli iqneba nebismieri baTumelisTvis.
– Tu SeiZleba, daakonkreteT.
– magaliTad, 10 milionis qoneba ar aris aRricxuli baTumSi. Sesabamisi tenderebiT gamovlenili kompaniebis mier Sesrulebuli samuSaoebi uxarisxod tardeboda, Tumca amaze aranairi kontroli ar wesdeboda.
– ratom ar Txoven pasuxs?
– am tenderebis momgebi kompaniebis mflobelebi xelisuflebasTan kavSirSi imyofebian, anu 90%-iani maCvenebliT, arian `qarTuli ocnebis~ Semomwirvelebi. saarCevnod partiul yulabebSi ikribeba es resursebi, nawili oficialurad, nawili – araoficialurad. am mocemulobis gaazrebis, gaTvaliswinebis da gaanalizebis Semdeg, raime tipis swor menejmentze da marTvaze saubari usamarTlobaa. ramdenime kviris win TbilisSi giorgi kirTaZesa da mirdat qamadaZesTan erTad SevxvdiT 25 qveynis elCs an mis moadgiles. mivawodeT informacia aWarasa da baTumSi arsebuli mdgomareobis Sesaxeb. maT erTi SekiTxva dasves: imas, rasac axla gviyvebiT, rogor axerxeben `qarTuli ocnebis~ warmomadgenlebi? Cemi pasuxi iyo martivi – Tornike riJvaZe aris umaRlesi xelisufali aWaraSi. centraluri saarCevno komisiis Tavmjdomare aris misi mejvare. aseTive sanaTesao Tu sxva ojaxur-klanuri kavSirebia meriaSic.
– da ra Tqves elCebma?
– maTTvis gasagebi gaxda yvelaferi. rodesac am informacias vawvdi saelCoebs, did pasuxismgeblobas viReb sakuTar Tavze, rom ar Seilaxos Cemi, rogorc politikosis reputacia. isini xom yvela Cems sityvas gadaamowmeben.
– igive da uaresi viTareba iyo saakaSvilis dros, aseve aslan abaSiZis, SevardnaZis mmarTvelobisas . . .
– amitom gadaagdo aWaris sazogadoebam aslan abaSiZe. gauSva xelisuflebidan SevardnaZe da `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~. 2012 wels me – 17 wlis studenti videqi quCis aqciebze xelisuflebis winaaRmdeg, viTxovdi samarTlianobas, uflebebis dacvas, moqalaqeebs Soris Tanasworobas da . . . ra moxda? vis winaaRmdegac videqi, is damxvda sasamarTlo-saxelisuflebo sistemaSi. isev darCnen murusiZe, CinCalaZe, igive prokurorebi arian. ris gamoc ar momwonda `nacionaluri moZraoba~, swored igives akeTebs `qarTuli ocneba~.
– sakrebuloSi yvelaze mravalricxovanma opoziciurma partiam ratom waradgina sakrebulos Tavmjdomared `lelos~ anu Tqveni kandidatura – gaerTiandiT?
– Cven ar gaverTianebulvarT, gvaqvs droebiTi SeTanxmeba am konkretul arCevnebze. SevTanxmdiT da warvadgineT saerTo maJoritarebis, meris da Tavmjdomaris kandidatebi. am SeTanxmebaSi monawileobdnen `lelo~, `evropuli saqarTvelo~, `strategia aRmaSenebeli~, merab kostavas sazogadoeba, `emsaxure saqarTvelos~, burjanaZis partia, adgilobrivi aqtivistebi genri doliZis, goCa gugunavas saxiT da sxvebi. es iyo mravalpartiuli opoziciuri SeTanxmeba, romelic konkretulad am erT arCevnebs exeboda da isic am konkretul regionSi, mxolod baTumSi da ara sxvagan. rac Seexeba opozicias, am etapze sakrebuloSi Cems kandidaturas mxars uWers ori partia: `lelo~ da `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~. amasTan, urTierTSeTanxmebis safuZvelze mxars miWeren is partiebic, romlebmac, samwuxarod, ver aiRes mandati, anu es aris mravalpartiuli SeTanxmeba am mocemulobaSi. rom gasuliyvnen es adamianebic sakrebuloSi, qalaqs eyoleboda mravalpartiuli mmarTvelobis organo, romelic gaakontrolebda aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebis yvela qmedebas da yvela sxdomaze ganxilvis da sja-baasis Semdeg, miiRebda qalaqis da qalaqelebis sasikeTo gadawyvetilebas.
– Tu SeiZleba agvixsnaT, ratom maincdamainc Tqvens kandidaturaze SeTanxmdnen?
– imitom, rom am etapze, baTumis municipalitetis sakrebulos Tavmjdomares ekisreba deputaciis gamaerTianeblis roli. imis miuxedavad, vinc unda iyos sakiTxis iniciatori – `qarTuli ocneba~, `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~, gaxarias `saqarTvelosTvis~, yovelTvis davdgebi qalaqis saWiroebebis mxareze, mxars davuWer yvela sakiTxs, romelic baTums waadgeba. yvela SemoTavazebas kbilebiT davicav, Tuki iqneba qalaqis sakeTildReod mimarTuli. magaliTisTvis getyviT: riggareSe sxdomebze e. w. vadagasulma sakrebulom suliko TebiZis TavmjdomareobiT gaitana sakiTxebi, romelTa mixedviTac 100-mde municipaluri qoneba (miwis farTebi, obieqtebi) gadasca aWaris mTavrobas. Tu am binebs an miwis nakveTebs aZlevdnen mravalSvilian ojaxebs, avariul saxlebSi mcxovrebT, ekomigrantebs da a. S. ratom ar moisurves gansasjelad daetovebinaT baTumis merisTvis da axali sakrebulosTvis? rodesac meri msgavs gadawyvetilebas iRebs, dasamtkiceblad warudgens sakrebulos, romelic, Tuki mravalpartiulia da aqvs monitoringis, kontrolis valdebuleba da uflebamosileba, adgens ganawilebis Sesabamis samarTlian kriteriumebs. msgavsi procesi ar Catarebula, usasyidlod gadasces baTumis qoneba Tornike riJvaZes, romelsac calke, Tavis mxriv, aRebuli aqvs politikuri pasuxismgebloba rig jgufebTan, maT Soris, kriminalebTan.
– kriminalebTan ra kavSirebze saubrobT?
– im xalxs vgulisxmob, saarCevno ubnebTan rom iyvnen mobilizebuli da saqmeebs arCevdnen. me ar minda, am qalaqis qoneba ganiavdes, rodesac arseboben socialurad SeWirvebuli, mravalSviliani ojaxebi, oblebi, SSm pirebi da sxva tipis umweo adamianebi, romlebic daxmarebas elian qalaqis mesveurTagan.
– SeiZleba SeeSindaT, rom ar daamtkicebdiT, radgan opoziciuri ganwyoba gaqvT.
– es sakiTxi rom gamoetanaT samsjavroze swori kriteriumebiT, 100%-iT darwmunebuli var, arcerTi deputati ar daixevda ukan da orive xels awevda. amas daadgenda swori qiSpobiT da msjelobiT mravalpartiuli sakrebulo. yvela sakadastro kodi amowerili maqvs da rodesac dro gava, SegexmianebiT, getyviT, rogor usamarTlod gaanawileben am qonebas. amitom SevewinaaRmdegeT maSin im sxdomas. moviTxoveT biujetis baTilad cnoba, radgan viciT, rom yvelaferi usamarTlodaa ganawilebuli. am etapze baTumis sakrebulo paralizebulia. Cven moviwvieT damatebiTi sxdoma, sadac igive sakiTxebia CaniSnuli. Cemi prognoziT, 30 dekembers unda gaimarTos rigiT mesame sxdoma. imedi maqvs, rom Catardeba, `qarTuli ocnebis~ deputatebi movlen da CaerTvebian am procesSi.
– Tqveni varaudiT, gonio-kvariaTis olqSi Sualedur arCevnebze visi kandidati gava?
– Tu iqamde mivediT da gonio-kvariaTSi Catarda Sualeduri arCevnebi, kandidati unda waradginos im gundma da partiam, romelsac daeRupa adamiani. Tavis droze es olqi didi upiratesobiT moigo nugzar futkaraZem. imxela avtoriteti darCa mas sikvdilis Semdeg, darwmunebuli var, misi partia axlac moigebs, Tumca aravis vurCev aq sakuTari kandidatis dayenebas – es moralis sakiTxia.
