,,კოლეგის გარდაცვალებას იყენებენ, მისი შვილით აპელირებენ პოლიტიკური ქულების დასაწერად”
მარიამ ხითარიშვილი 27 48 93 –
gTavazobT intervius aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputatTan daviT bacikaZesTan, romelic Tvlis, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ kidev ufro gaZlierebulia da gadasulia qveynis ganviTarebis maRal tempebze. rac Seexeba Sualedur arCevnebs, batoni daviTi amtkicebs, rom gonio-kvariaTis saarCevno olqSi gaimarjvebs mmarTveli gundis kandidati ramaz jinWaraZe, romelsac aWaraSi did pativs scemen da afaseben.
– batono daviT, Tu SeiZleba mokled mimoixileT mimdinare politikuri procesebi. mainc ra xdeba?
– araferi gansakuTrebuli ar xdeba, rac iyo adre, axlac igive procesebi mimdinareobs. ukve ramdenime Tvea, yofili prezidenti cixeSi zis, misi aqtivistebi darbian, yvirian, kivian, magram qaravani mainc midis. Cven xeli ar gveSleba qveynis marTvaSi, erTaderTi, vnerviulobT ukraina-ruseTis konfliqts. Cvens ukrainel Zmebs mSvidobas vusurveb iseT farglebSi, rogoric es SesaZlebelia. mTeli samyaro axla daZabulia, omi Tu globaluri formebiT daiwyo, veRaravin gadarCeba.
– radgan yofili prezidenti axseneT, barem isic gviTxariT, rogor SeafasebT mis moTxovnas, mowmed aSS-is prezidentis, jo baidenis dayenebis Sesaxeb, romelmac 7 noembris sastiki aqcia, Turme, ruseTis hibridul oms gadaabrala.
– maSindel senator jo baidens msgavsi gancxadeba gaekeTebinos, arsad momismenia. ara mgonia, es simarTle iyos, radgan saakaSvils sCvevia tyuilebis Tqma. kargad maxsovs, 7 noemberTan dakavSirebiT, amerikis saxelmwifo departamentis braldeba Zalian mkveTri iyo da masTan erTad, msoflio sazogadoebriobam dagmo es tiranuli aqti. hibriduli omi aravis uxsenebia, piriqiT, Tqves, rom es iyo demokratiaze Tavdasxma. gaixseneT, rogor daarbies xalxi, demonstrantebi, Semdeg Sevardnen tv `imedSi~ da. . . kidev erTxel vimeoreb, msgavsi gancxadeba arc baidens gaukeTebia da arc sxva vinmes. miSas rom uyvars efemeruli gadabralebebi da mudmivad cruobs, es sazogadoebamac kargad icis, arc pirveli da albaT, arc ukanaskneli SemTxveva ar aris.
– parlamentidan gairicxa opoziciis sami deputati, manamde ki mandatebs maTi moTxovniTac ar uuqmebdnen. . .
– yvelafers aqvs Tavisi zRvari, vadebi. am adamianebs ar swamT kanonis, arc sakanonmdeblo organoSi siaruls aZleven did datvirTvas. es ufro naTelaSvils exeba, romelsac sul ar ainteresebda parlamentaroba manam, sanam ar mixvda, rom yovelgvari gonivruli vada amoiwura. leiboristTa liderma gaacdina parlamentis yvela sxdoma, sxvas ras an ratom eloda, gaugebaria. daiwyo TamaSebi, TiTqos asi aTasobiT adamiani apirebda parlamentSi Sevardnas da moiTxovda mis dabrunebas da sxv.
– ra xdeba am kuTxiT umaRles sabWoSi?
– CvenTan dausjelobis sindromi moxsnilia, radgan jarimdebian – boikotis gamo Cveni kolegebi did finansur zarals ganicdian. xmas nu amoiReben sxdomebze, magram komitetebSi aucileblad unda mobrZandnen. sxva SemTxvevaSi, kanonis darRveva iqneba. aseve iyo Salvas SemTxvevaSi da miiRo is, rac mas ekuTvnoda kanoniT. vinme ityvis, rom naTelaSvili Tundac erT sxdomas daeswro da mainc gaagdes? msgavsi araferi yofila da rogor ityvian?
– Semdeg xom daiwyo siaruli?
– es ar exeba am etapze parlamentSi Semosvlas, weliwadze metia, am kacs ar uvlia da axla gaaxsenda sakuTari deputatoba da ufleba-movaleoba? sami sasesio periodi aqvs gacdenili da dro iyo, gaeSvaT.
– rac Seexeba xoStarias?
– mas Tavad hqonda dawerili gancxadeba, romelic daakmayofiles. es misi gadawyvetileba iyo. rac Seexeba badri jafariZes, sasamarTlo gadawyvetilebaSi revizias ver movaxden, radgan sasamarTlos gadawyvetileba uzaenaesia am qveyanaSi. parlamentis reglamentSi da rac mTavaria, konstituciaSi, pirdapir weria, gamamtyunebeli ganaCenis gamo parlamentis wevrs avtomaturad uwydeba uflebamosileba. badri jafariZe cnes damnaSved, TaRliTad, aqedan gamomdinare, parlaments ufleba ar hqonda, ar ganexila es sakiTxi da saTanado gadawyvetileba ar mieRo. Sesabamisad, umravlesoba daemorCila kanonis moTxovnas da badri jafariZes CamoerTva mandati.
– Tuki es kanonis moTxovnaa, rogor dauSves, igive badri jafariZis kandidaturis wardgena TviTmmarTvelobis Sualedur arCevnebSi, rusTavSi. rom gaimarjvos, xom isev parlamentari gaxdeba?
– ara, aq sxvagvaradaa saqme: rodesac arsebul situaciaSi xdeboda ganxilva, miiRes is gadawyvetileba, rasac reglamenti iTxovda. axla ukve msjavri daedo da SeuZlia am konkretuli saqmis miuxedavad, iyaros kenWi.
– cota ar iyos, davibeni, batono daviT. . .
– aris sisxlis samarTlis garkveuli saqmeebi, romelSic weria, rom ekrZaleba kenWisyra da sxv. msgavsi aq ar yofila da adamians aqvs ufleba, Tavidan iyaros kenWi nebismier olqSi, Tundac Sualedur arCevnebSi.
– saqarTveloSi evrokavSiris elCi karl harceli opozicioneri deputatebisTvis saparlamento mandatis SewyvetasTan dakavSirebiT acxadebs: `parlamentSi rac ufro naklebia aTvisebuli mandatebi, naklebia pluralizmi.~
– daveTanxmebi baton elCs, magram aqve davamateb, rom konstitucia aris qveynis uzenaesi kanoni, romlis darRveva ar SeiZleba aravisTvis, pozicia iqneba es Tu opozicia. aqedan gamomdinare, karl harcelis SeniSvna sworia, rac naklebia opoziciis deputati, naklebi gansxvavebuli azria, magram Tuki es deputatebi ar iTvaliswineben kanonis moTxovnebs, ar dadian parlamentSi an Tavad surT gasvla, Cven araviTari ufleba ar gagvaCnia, ar ganvixiloT es saqme da ar miviRoT Sesabamisi gadawyvetileba. Cvenc gvsurs parlamentSi konstruqciuli opozicia, magram sam-wuxarod, mxolod saprotesto aqciebs, performansebs da boikotirebas vawydebiT, rac miuRebelia qveynis sakanonmdeblo organosTvis. amitom batonma karlma pasuxi mosTxovos Tavad xoStarias, TaRliT jafariZes da. . . naTelaSvils (aRar davaxasiaTeb).
– rogorc TqviT, aWaris umaRles sabWoSic boikots acxadebs opoziciis zogierTi deputati. Tu apirebT maTTvis, parlamentis msgavsad, mandatebis CamorTmevas?
– sagazafxulo sesia martSi gaixsneba da ver getyviT, ivlian Tu ara. rogorc aRvniSne, jarimebi moqmedebs, magram piradad Cemi azria, vinc ar dadis da ar eswreba sxdomebs, CamoerTvas mandatebi. Tuki kanons arRveven, keTili inebon da amaze pasuxi agon. vfiqrob, reglamentSi unda Sevides cvlileba, Caiweros, boikotis reJimSi myofi adamianebi Tuki gaacdenen komitetis sxdomebs, maTi pasuxismgeblobis sakiTxi dadges da umaRlesi sabWos wevrobis uflebamosileba SeuCerdeT.
– jarimebi xom gaqvT dawesebuli?
– ki, rogorc aRvniSne, finansur zarals ganicdian, magram amis miuxedavad, soliduri xelfasi rCebaT, mainc. Tavis droze, politikuri gadawyvetilebis gamo, ar SeuCeres ufle-bamosileba, amaze orjer iyo msjeloba. pirvel SemTxvevaSi, mec vambobdi, rom Tuki eseni ar scemen pativs sakuTar amomrCevels, Cven meti pasuxismgebloba gvaqvs da unda vitvirToT maTi aq datovebiT maTive saqme, magram rogorc xedavT, ar gaamarTla. meored winaaRmdegi viyavi, magram radgan umravlesoba amaze SeTanxmda, ra unda meqna. es is adamianebi arian, romlebsac sakuTari lideri `pufs~ uwodebda. Tu gaxsovT, erTxel `pufic~ ki mivitane sxdomaze da davdgi maT nacvlad. ar gaaCniaT araviTari pasuxismgebloba, principebi da yovelTvis erTi da igives akeTeben, fantaziis unaric ar aqvT, rame mainc rom Secvalon. erT dRes erTs amboben, meore dRes – meores. maTi prezidentic, araJnebTan erTad rom Semoipara saqarTveloSi, ar gamoirCeva sityvis simtkiciT da moraliT. axlac ityueba, rac misgan mosalodneli iyo.
– baTumis sakrebulos Sualedur arCevnebSi monawileobs gardacvlili deputatis Svili maTe futkaraZe. rogor fiqrobT, mogcemT Tu ara am olqis amomrCeveli xmas maSin, rodesac wina arCevnebis pirvelive turSi enm-is wevrma gaimarjva?
– Zalian kargad Cans, ra mxardaWera aqvs enm-s sazogadoebaSi. arCevnebis dros, opozicias saerTo kandidatebi hyavda da cxonebulma nugzar futkaraZemac ramdenime xmiT mougo Cvens kandidats. esec imitom moxda, rom mobilizacia gamoacxades – miSa Camovida, revolucias moaxdens da isev gaxdeba prezidentio. maSin bevrma gamoamJRavna Tavi da albaT, SiSis gamo gadaxeda sakuTar politikur arCevans. Tumca sadaa dRes miSa da kidev 5 weli sadac iqneba, yvela kargad xedavs. aqedan gamomdinare, ar mgonia, rom maT isev moaxerxon Tavisi amomrCevlis mobilizeba. aqve gasaTvaliswinebelia yofili premieris momxreebis `SeTxelebis~ ambavic. winasaarCevno periodSi gaxarias gundi dadioda da acxadebda yvelgan, Cven varT biZinas proeqtio. bevrma dauWira maSin mxari, zogierTma Cvenma momxremac ki icvala gezi, ifiqres, rasac Cven, `ocneba~ ver vakeTebdiT, gaxaria moaxerxebda. drom yvelaferi Tav-Tavis adgilze ganalaga. yvelam dainaxa, vin visi proeqtia. amis gamo datoves partia `saqarTvelosTvis~ misma damfuZneblebmac ki. jer erTi, gaugebaria, amxela tyuils rogor kadrulobda adamiani, romelsac politikaSi surda zurgis gamagreba. mokled rom vTqvaT, maT is mxadamWerebic CamoSordnen, Tavis droze sicruiT rom miizides. mTeli es ambavi imitom davakonkrete, rom amexsna, maSindeli Cveni kandidatis marcxi ram gamoiwvia. axla yvelaferi garkveulia, xalxi arCevs mtyuan-marTals da kenWisyrac amas daamtkicebs.
– rogor daaxasiaTebdiT ramaz jinWaraZes?
– obieqturi ver viqnebi, radgan subieqturad Zalian miyvars. is Cemi mezobelicaa da megobaric. misi konkurentebic ki, masze cuds ver amboben, imaze apelireben, Turme Cven `vafuWebT biWs~. . . es sul sxva Temaa. mokled, wlebis ganmavlobaSi iyo ramazi sajaro moxele, politikuri Tanamdebobis piri ki Cveni xelisuflebis dros gaxda. vicodiT, ra SesaZleblobebic hqonda mas da davawinaureT. arc erT wina xelisuflebas misi Rvawli ar daufasebia. axlac gamovucxadeT ndoba, radgan viciT, rom gamoadgeba qalaqs. es ician misma mowinaaRmdegeebma da Zalianac ganicdian.
– maTe futkaraZis kandidaturam cxadyo, rom win wamoiwevs nugzar futkaraZis gardacvalebis sakiTxi. ramdenad eTanxmebiT azrs, rom is politikuri zewolis msxverplia?
– zemoTac vilaparake, ra moralis da zneobis xalxTan gvaqvs saqme. es isini arian, 26 maiss adamianebi rom mokles da Semdeg saxuravze Semodes gvamebi, vinc uaryofs girgvlianis saqmes, amtkicebs, rom tyeSi adamiani ar uwamebiaT da iqve ar daugdiaT, acxadeben, rom SavaZe yvela kidurSi ar daumtvreviaT. . . aRar minda CamonaTvalis gagrZeleba, yvelam yvelaferi icis, aqedan gamomdinare, arc gvikvirs, ras akeTeben, ras iTxoven. sakuTari kolegis gardacvalebas iyeneben, misi SviliT apelireben, sikvdiliT sargebloben politikuri qulebis dasawerad. es leSiWamia xalxia. ver naxavT saqarTveloSi momxdar vercerT tragikul SemTxvevas, romelsac politikur axsnas ar mouZebnian da Tavis sasikeTod ar warmarTaven. magaliTad SaqaraSvilis an baCaleiSvilis saqmeebic gveyofa. isini eZeben negativs, raTa ubedurebis morevi daatrialon saqarTveloSi. mxolod amiT interesdebian, sxva araferi awuxebT. ra gavakeToT, yvela maT ciliswamebaze Tavi vimarTloT?! sazogadoebis didma nawilma kargad icis, vinc varT da imitomac gviWers mxars. saakaSvili yviroda sasamarTloSi, gadavsebulia cixeebi patimrebiTo. mis dros 30 aTasi patimari iyo da 9 aTasze naklebia axla. aseTi tyuili gagonila? 300 aTasi probacioneri dadioda am qveyanaSi da dRes 10 aTasic aRaraa – yvelam icis. iyvireben, iwivleben da gaCerdebian. demokratiis xibli esaa, ar unda aukrZalo adamians Tqvas, rac unda. saakaSviliviT radikalizmSi xom ver gadavvardebiT? moswonT miSa da kargad iyvnen, es ar aris Cveni saqme, sabolood yvela yvelafers xedavs da afasebs ise, rogorc amas sindisi karnaxobs. xedavT, sanaia ras kadrulobs televiziiT – gardacvlil Zmas efareba.
– rogor SeafasebT ruseTis samxedro qmedebebs da irma inaSvilis werils, romelic putins miwera?
– ruseTi da misi bolo mmarTveli, stalinis Semdeg, saqarTvelos yvelaze didi mteria. am sakiTxze aravin kamaTobs irma inaSvilis da misnairebis garda. keTilmezobluri urTierTobebi yvelas gvinda, magram rodesac gvangrevs, miwas gvarTmevs, Zmebs mtrebad gviqcevs, ra urTierTobasa da ndobazea saubari. CemTvis putinia mteri, Torem rusi eri mteri ar aris. yvela erSia cudi da kargi. germanel ers putinze uaresi kaci hyavda liderad, magram dRes yvelaze meti demokratiaa iq. darwmunebuli var, rusi eric naxavs gamosavals am situaciidan, es mxolod drois sakiTxia, magram dRes, mimarTo putins, gviSvele, mTeli xalxi Sen gemxroba da Sen undixaro, eris Ralatad mimaCnia. . . da RmerTma Seargos viTom prodasavlur Zalas eSmakTan kavSiri, vgulisxmob, irma inaSvilis da badri jafariZis Sexvedrebs.