მედეა ვასაძე: არასოდეს შემშინებია რუსის ჩექმის და არც ახლა შევუშინდები
ხატია იაშვილი 591 98 24 26 –
ukrainis prezidentma volodimir zelenskim saqarTvelodan elCi igor dolgovi gaiwvia, amis Sesaxeb man specialuri mimarTvisas ganacxada. `Cven dauyovnebliv viwvevT saqarTvelos elCs im moxaliseebisTvis dabrkolebebis gamo, romlebsac surT Cveni daxmareba, misi aramoraluri poziciisTvis sanqciebTan dakavSirebiT~, – ganacxada zelenskim
adre saqarTvelos premier-ministrma irakli RaribaSvilma aRniSna, rom qveyana ukrainaSi mimdinare specialuri samxedro moqmedebebis gamo, ruseTis winaaRmdeg sanqciebs ar daawesebs. misi TqmiT, sanqciebi yvelaze metad Tavad saqarTvelos daazianebs. premieris TqmiT, saqarTvelom ukrainas yvela saerTaSoriso formatis farglebSi mxardaWera gamoucxada. mxari dauWira evropis sabWos gadawyvetilebas organizaciaSi ruseTis warmomadgenlobis uflebis SeCerebis Sesaxeb, aseve – gaeros uSiSroebis sabWos rezolucias. amasTan, Tbilissa da sxva qalaqebSi yoveldRiurad imarTeba ukrainis mxardamWeri aqciebi.
amis miuxedavad, opoziciis udidesi nawili iTxovs ukrainaSi jaris gagzavnas da ar miiCnevs premieris gadawyvetilebas sworad. uTanxmoeba sakanonmdeblo organoebSi xSirad agresiul SetakebebSi gamoixateba. orive mxare cdilobs sakuTari simarTle daamtkicos. gansakuTrebuli yuradReba miipyro aWaris umaRles sabWoSi pozicia-opoziciis Cxubma. Selaparakebebi fizikur dapirispirebaSi gadaizarda.
am Temebze gTavazobT intervius aWaris umaRlesi sabWos opoziciuri frTis warmomadgenelTan medea vasaZesTan, romelsac uRirsad miaCnia msgavsi dapirispirebebi. misi gancxadebiT, sakanonmdeblo organos gaaCnia tribuna, arsebobs media da swored am saSualebebis gamoyenebiT unda afiqsirebdnen deputatebi sakuTar azrebs da ara Sexla-SemoxliT.
– qalbatono medea, umaRlesi sabWos sagazafxulo sezoni ukve gaixsna, apirebT Tu ara mTeli datvirTviT muSaobas?
– diax, gavxseniT biuros sxdomis CatarebiT. me yovelTvis vmuSaobdi da axlac imis momxre viyavi, maqsimaluri datvirTviT gvemuSava. arasodes, arsad amiRia xelfasi umuSevrad. ase var miCveuli. rodesac aq dgeba xelfasis aRebis dRe, vekiTxebi sakuTar Tavs, aris Tu ara Cem mier gaweuli Sroma anazRaurebis sapirwone? xandaxan maqvs uxerxuloba. vcdilob, maqsimalurad davixarjo. viReb Cvens amomrCevlebs, vuwev maT iuridiul Tu sxva saxis konsultaciebs, vayeneb gzaze da vexmarebi dasaxuli miznis miRwevasa da problemis mogvarebaSi, anu vakeTeb saqmes, rac me, rogorc iuridiul da sakonstitucio sakiTxTa komitetis Tavmjdomaris moadgiles mevaleba. am TveSi daaxloebiT 25 adamianis problema Seviswavle, davexmare yvelas da garkveulwilad vakontroleb maT mier miRweul Sedegs. Tuki ar aris sakmarisi Cemi Careva, veZeb sxva gzebs da vagrZeleb daxmarebas. mokled rom vTqva, vmuSaob mTeli datvirTviT.
– opozicias xom boikoti hqonda gamocxadebuli?
– diax, opoziciis did nawils marTlac hqonda gamocxadebuli boikoti. axla CaverTeT muSaobaSi da xmauric, Sesabamisad, Tan gvdevs.
– ar SeiZleba ar vaxseno axlaxans momxdari incidenti, rodesac fizikurad daupirispirdnen erTmaneTs pozicia-opoziciis warmomadgenlebi.
– me raionSi viyavi, damagvianda misvla, Tumca, ra Tqma unda, saqmis kursSi var. meore dRes gamarTul sxdomaze orive mxarem, gaerTianebuli opoziciis da umravlesobis warmomadgenlebma, romlebic CarTulni iyvnen am incidentSi, erTmaneTs bodiSi mouxades. Tavadve ganacxades, rom wuxan emociebis gaSiSvlebisTvis da arcerTi ar apirebs msgavsi paeqrobis kvlav daSvebas. uaryofiTad Seafases sakuTari qmedebebi da me CavTvale – es sakmarisia, radgan bodiSis moxda pozitiuri gadawyvetilebaa im daZabul viTarebaSi, rogorSic dRes vimyofebiT.
– elguja bagrationma moRalate uwoda tite aroSiZes, rasac mohyva Sexla-Semoxla. migaCniaT, rom gamarTlebuli iyo misi es replika?
– xdeba xolme, rom zogadi sakiTxebis ganxilvisas piradulSi gadadis erTi mxarec da meorec. yvelaferi es garedan Zalian cudad gamoiyureba. giTxariT, rom mogvianebiT SevuerTdi am areulobas, magram mqonda `CvenebTan~ saubari. minda giTxraT, rom Tavadac ukmayofilo iyvnen am incidentiT. Cven kanonSemoqmedebiT organos warmovadgenT da xelCarTuli brZola ar Segvefereba. tribuna swored imisTvis arsebobs, rom Cveni saTqmelis, gadawyvetilebis Tqma movaxerxoT. ra Tqma unda, amaSi Tqven, Jurnalistebic gvexmarebiT. aucileblobis SemTxvevaSi, es saSualebebi unda gamoviyenoT da ar davZaboT viTareba ise, rom CaSlis piras mivides sxdoma. aseTi areulobiT vkargavT avtoritets da kanoniT moniWebul sityvis Tqmis uflebas, normalurad ver ganvumartavT amomrCevels Cvens pozicias.
– isic iTqva, gareT mSvenieri urTierTobebi aqvT pozicia-opoziciis warmomadgenlebs, magram kamerebis win, ratomRac, xelCarTul brZolaze gadadiano. . .
– Zalian mixaria, rom piradulSi ar gadadis Cveni politikuri dapirispireba, magram arc asea saqme. sxdomaze Sesvlamde madloba gadavuxade umravlesobis warmomadgenels Cemi mwuxarebis gaziarebisTvis, SesaZloa, garedan es sxvagvarad aReqvaT. aqedan gamomdinare, ar minda, ifiqroT, TiTqos Cven speqtaklebs vdgamT. msgavss aravin akeTebs. nebismieri uTanxmoeba warmoiqmneba erT konkretul sakiTxze, azvirTdeba da dapirispirebaSi naxulobs gamosavals.
– rogor SeafasebT ukraina-ruseTis oms?
– me is var, vinc gamoiara saqarTvelos erovnuli damoukideblobisTvis brZola. vici, ras niSnavs qveynis Tavisuflebis xelyofa. Znelia sakuTari wvlilis gansazRvra am saqmeSi, radgan didi mokrZalebiT vekidebi am sakiTxs. mTeli Cemi ojaxi viyaviT erovnul-ganmaTavisuflebeli moZraobis aqtiuri monawile. aqve minda aRvniSno, rom es moZraoba rTulad Semovida aWaraSi, iseve, rogorc yvela sxva axali procesi fexs ikidebs mZimed – aWareli kaci bunebiT kanonmorCilia da bevri Sromaa saWiro, gansxvavebul azrSi rom daarwmuno. aqedan gamomdinare, vambob, rom aq gansakuTrebulad mZime iyo es brZola, represiebic gamoiara ojaxma. . . axla aRar CavuRrmavdebi am sakiTxs, radgan Sors wagviyvans. ukrainis Tema amitomacaa CemTvis sensitiuri, mTlianad var CaZiruli am procesSi da ukiduresad gaRizianebuli arsebuli viTarebiT. ukrainelTa brZola aris samarTliani, ra unda maTgan ruseTs, mainc ver gavige. Tbilisidan wamosulma muxaTgverdSi gamoviare – Cveni biWebis saflavebTan da iq vTqvi saTqmeli, sxvagan ar gvaZleven emociebis daxarjvis saSualebas.
– Tqven premier-ministris gadawyvetilebas gulisxmobT?
– ar vici, ras vgulisxmob. . . Cveni xelisufleba sakuTar pozicias eZaxis sifrTxiles, Cven – simxdales. me ar minda cxovreba mxdalTa qveyanaSi, mxdali adamianebis gverdiT. ususurobis gamoxatva, ara mgonia, sifrTxile iyos. Cven mebrZoli, raindebis qveyana varT, qarTvelebi varT, romlebsac istoriulad mogvdevs siamaye, Tavganwirva, sisxlis Rvra simarTlisTvis da TavisuflebisTvis.
– Tqven migaCniaT, rom sakmarisi simamace ver gamoviCineT?
– mgonia, Cveni sifrTxile ar aris sakmarisi rusebisgan Tavdasacavad. Tuki raime surT an moesurvilebaT ukrainidan wamosulebs, mainc dagvartyamen da ar Sexedaven, davudeqiT Tu ara ukrainas mxarSi. albaT, naxeT, ra ironiuli Sefasebebi gaakeTes rusebma: gamoirecxa qarTvelebis tvini 2008 wlis omSio. axla, rom vuyureb mimdinare movlenebs, vxvdebi, ramxela brZola gadautania Cvens maSindel prezidents, romelic axla cixeSi hyavT gamomwyvdeuli. asea Tu ise, xom SeCerda maSin ruseTis agresia?
– axlac iTxovs mixeil saakaSvili ukrainaSi gaSvebas. . .
– diax, axlac iTxovs da rom gauSvan, aucileblad wava, amaSi eWvic ar mepareba. modiT, ganvsajoT – am kacis energia igive ukrainisTvis, saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis qveynebisTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania. mas iq SeuZlia realuri saqmeebis keTeba. mkveTrad gamoxatuli poziciebi aqvs. imis droa, axla mixeil saakaSvili oTx kedelSi iyos Caketili? me vityodi, es aris danaSauli – ar jdeba aranair konteqstSi, aranair realobaSi.
– Tqven TvliT, rom unda gauSvan?
– aba, ra unda qnan, unda gaaTavisuflon msjavrisgan da gauSvan, xeli Seuwyon mis moTxovnebs da daaxmaron ukrainas misi uSreti energia. axlaxan gamovaqveyne Cems feisbuq-gverdze 2013 wels saakaSvilis gamosvla. gaecaniT da SeadareT axlandel liders. rom movusmine, aRfrTovanebuli davrCi, 10 wuTi gonze ver movedi. Tu ra SeiZleba momxdariyo da ra safrTxis win videqiT, yvela mosazreba aqvs Cadebuli am sityvaSi. amiT kidev erTxel avxseni, ratom gadmovedi opoziciaSi da ratom var iq, sadac es kaci idga. naxeT, mousmineT Tavad da mixvdebiT, risi Tqmac minda.
– qalbatono medea, premieris sityvebiT rom vTqvaT, 40 km-Si dgas rusis jari da nebismieri provocirebac sakmarisi iqneba saqarTvelos asatrialeblado. Tqven migaCniaT, rom mzad varT gavumklavdeT moskovs?
– SeiZleba gagviWirdes mogerieba. ukrainisgan gansxvavebiT, Cven ar varT mzad. ukraina momzadebuli Sexvda rogorc samxedro TvalsazrisiT, ise moralurad da sulierad. mTeli qveyana mzad iyo, rusebs vaJkacurad daxvedroda. vimeoreb, gagviWirdeba, magram es ar niSnavs imas, rom Tavi daviClungoT da monuri fsiqologia vadidoT. sulze uRels ver davidgam, arasodes SemSinebia rusis Ceqmis da axlac ar SevuSindebi. asakis miuxedavad, Tuki srolas maswavlis vinme, axlac mzad var, iaraRi avisxa da ukrainelebs davexmaro, riTac SevZleb. mesmis premieris, rom sakuTar ZalebSi eWvi epareba, rac ar aris safuZvels moklebuli, magram raRac sxva mainc xom unda gaakeTo, is, rac ZaluZs mTel ers.
– saqarTvelo xom akeTebs, rac SeuZlia?
– ras akeTebs, gamoTiSulia yvela im konteqstidan, riTac apelirebs civilizebuli samyaro putinis winaaRmdeg. ra dagvrCa, megobari qveynebic zurgs gvaqceven, vin gviSvelis saWiroebis SeTxvevaSi da vin dagvidgeba gverdSi, Tuki igive ruseTi ver daikmayofilebs madas da aqeT gadmodgams nabijs? xedavT, ra xdeba? gamodis, rom Tan mxdalebi varT, Tan megobrebic ar SegvrCa, zelenskimac gaiyvana elCi saqarTvelodan. vis unda Cveni daxmareba? sircxvilia, zelenski amas gvapatiebs? RaribaSvilma eqimebiT savse TviTmfrinavi ar gauSva, eqimebi gaaCera, romlebmac gadades Tavi da daWrilebis saSvelad gadawyvites Sua omSi, frontis wina xazze wasvla. premierma Tavi daimSvida, Cveni elCi rCeba ukrainaSi, ara uSavso. marTla urTules situaciaSi aRmovCndiT, me zneobriv mxares vgulisxmob, Torem yvelaze saSineli ambebi axla ukrainis omSi, TavisuflebisTvis brZolaSi trialebs. putini ukrainas ki ara, kacobriobas daesxa Tavs. am viTarebaSi maxsendeba meore msoflio omi, rodesac safrangeTis okupacia moxda. maSindelma prezidentma parizis dabombvas da Zeglebis ganadgurebas arCia qalaqis Cabareba. Semdegma mTavrobam ki is adamianebi, romlebmac parizi ubrZolvelad Caabara mters, daxvrita.
– rogor fiqrobT, rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi ukrainaSi?
– me mainc optimisturad vuyureb am ambavs, mgonia, rom ukraina saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis daxmarebiT daZlevs mters, radgan moskovs aSkarad uWirs. aravin eloda ukrainis aseT daxvedras da medgar winaaRmdegobas. ruseTis jansaRad moazrovne nawili ar dauSvebs am sisxlisRvris gagrZelebas, aujanydeba, radgan maTi Svilebi iRupebian (is biWebic mecodeba), maTi saxeli ukve faSistebis sinonimad iqca. maTi qveyana sul male ekonomikur kolafsSi Cavardeba. arc birTvuli iaraRis gamoyenebaa ruseTisTvis gamosavali, radgan amiT sakuTar xalxs da qveyanasac gaanadgurebs. es yvelam icis da amitomaa ase gamwarebuli, cdilobs evropis da koleqtiuri dasavleTis daSinebas birTvuli triadiT. evropam mis mimarT SiSi ukve gadalaxa. mixvda, rom ruseTi aSantaJebs maT maTive SiSiT. amitom vacxadeb, rom Cveni xelisuflebis simxdale aranairad ar aris gamarTlebuli. ruseT-ukrainis omi dasruldeba, adre Tu gvian yvelaferi sruldeba, saqarTvelo ki dakargavs amayi, mebrZoli da Seudrekeli eris Saravandeds.