შემოედინება თუ არა რუსების დიდი ნაკადი ბათუმში?
მარიამ ხითარიშვილი 27 48 93 –
ruseTidan wamosulma turistebis didma nakadma SeaSina baTumelebi. Wor-marTali erTmaneTSi airia, yvelas ainteresebs, ra mizniT Semodian aWaraSi rusebi da ra surT sabolood
mavanni amboben, rom es yvelaferi droebiTia, sxvebi amtkiceben – biznesis awyoba surT, radgan dasavleTma finansebi daublokao, bevri imasac acxadebs, ruseTi aq mexuTe kolonas ayalibebs da ukrainis Semdeg saqarTvelos daartyamso. asea Tu ise, ekonomikuri suraTi sul ufro mZimdeba. fuliT Camosuli ucxoelebi iwveven fasebis stiqiur zrdas, rac negatiurad aisaxeba adgilobriv mosaxleobaze. manamde gamyarebuli lari uprecedentod ecema, rac, isev da isev, Cvens msyidvelunarianobaze iqoniebs uaryofiT gavlenas.
am da sxva sakiTxebze gvesaubreba aWaris umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomaris moadgile tite aroSiZe.
– mTelma samyarom naxa, ras iwvevs ori didi saxelmwifos omi, rogor erTveba am brZolaSi msoflios sxvadasxva qveyana sxvadasxva formiT. aq saubaria ara mxolod fizikur da materialur dapirispirebebze, aramed ekonomikis uZlieres ryevebze, ris Sedegebsac uaxloes momavalSi mwared viwvnevT. darwmunebuli var, Zalian gagviWirdeba im krizisis daZleva, rac gvelodeba. ruseT-ukrainis oms, romelsac putini jiutad eZaxis specoperacias, gamarTleba ar aqvs arc erTi iuridiuli samarTliT. faqtia, rom mSvidobiani mosaxleoba iRupeba, qalaqebi, soflebi ingreva, nadgurdeba infrastruqtura. yvelaferi es did gavlenas moaxdens ara mxolod ukrainaze, aramed mTel evropasa da mosazRvre qveynebze, romelTanac ukrainas mWidro ekonomikuri TanamSromloba hqonda.
– ras ityviT ruseTisTvis dawesebul sanqciebze?
– evropisa da civilizebuli samyaros gaerTianeba omis SesaCereblad da ukrainis mxardasaWerad uaRresad mniSvnelovania. am mxriv gatarebuli sanqciebi udides dartymas ayenebs ruseTis ekonomikas. saqarTveloc aqtiurad TanamSromlobda evrokavSiris rezoluciebis miRebis procesSi da maqsimums akeTebda agresiis SesaCereblad, ruseTisTvis ama Tu im saerTaSoriso organizaciebis statusebis gasauqmeblad.
– Sedegs jerjerobiT ver vxedavT. . .
– darwmunebuli var, aucileblad davinaxavT, romelic gavlenas iqoniebs omis xangrZlivobaze. imeds vitoveb, rom ruseTi male moegeba gons da Sewyvets samxedro militarizacias ukrainaSi.
– Tqven ambobT, rom mTeli civilizebuli samyaro exmareba ukrainas, magram faqtia, rom mtrebTan pirispir swored ukrainelebi darCnen da arcerTi qveyana ar udgas mxarSi iaraRiTa da cocxali ZaliT. ras ufrTxis evropa?
– am qcevas vxsniT sifrTxiliT, ruseTis araprognozirebadi reaqciebiT da putinis araordinaruli gadawyvetilebebiT. yvelas gvaxsovs 2008 weli, rodesac aRSfoTeba-SeSfoTebiT akritikebdnen ruseTs da gmobdnen mis agresias saqarTveloSi, magram isic davinaxeT, konkretulad riT Semoifargla ruseTis mimarT naxevari msoflio. axlaxan didi britaneTis premier-ministrma boris jonsonma `niu-iork TaimsTan~ interviuSi ganacxada: `Cven ver viswavleT rusuli agresiis gakveTilebi. Zalian didi xania, meore loya mivuSvireT. veravin ityvis, rom ar gagvafrTxiles. vnaxeT, ra gaakeTa ruseTma saqarTveloSi 2008 wels, ukrainaSi 2014 wels da, Tundac, solsberis quCebSi~. anu mainc aRiares, rom swored saqarTvelo iyo gangaSis pirveli zari mTeli msofliosTvis, gansakuTrebiT ki evropis ganviTarebuli nawilisTvis, romelmac Tavi ar aitkiva patara qveynis problemebiT.
– principSi, axlac mxolod ekonomikuri sanqciebiT da kritikiT Semoifarglebian.
– me mainc vfiqrob, rom evropis CarTva am konfliqtSi imaze uares Sedegebs mogvcems, vidre gvaqvs, radgan ramdenime qveynis brZola ukve mesame msoflio omis gamomwvevi iqneba, rac ubedurebiT dasruldeba msofliosTvis. amis mtkicebis safuZveli gvaqvs, radgan gavimeoreb – putini araprognozirebadia. msgavsi omis wamowyebas aucileblad mohyveba birTvuli iaraRis gamoyeneba, rac ara mxolod evropa-amerika-ruseTis, planetis arsebobas Seuqmnis safrTxes. cxadia, amis saSiSrobas da riskebs koleqtiuri dasavleTi iTvaliswinebs da amitom ikavebs Tavs omSi Cabmisgan. Tumca aqve aRvniSnav, rom ukrainis omze evropas imaze gacilebiT meti reaqcia hqonda, vidre Tavis droze – saqarTveloSi. man gaatara aqamde uprecedento sanqciebi, daexmara ukrainas iaraRiTac da, praqtikulad, ruseTi iseT ekonomikur izolaciaSi moaqcia, rogorsac aravin eloda. aqedan gamomdinare, ver vityviT, rom dasavleTi ar Caeria, ubralod, ar iyenebs samxedro Zalas, radgan ufrTxis mesame msoflio omis dawyebas.
– ramdenad swori iyo zelenskis mxridan ruseTis winaaRmdeg omSi Cabma? miT ufro, unda scodnoda, rom dasavleTi ar daexmareboda cocxali samxedro ZaliT.
– zelenskis kargad unda scodnoda, rom cocxali ZaliT ver daexmareboda verc nato da verc evrokavSiri. miT umetes, doqtrinebSi garkveviT uweriaT, rom ar aqvT jariT daxmarebis ufleba, Tuki safrTxe ar eqmneba maT sazRvrebSi moqceul qveynebs, magram, modiT, am SekiTxvis sruli pasuxisgan Tavs Sevikaveb, radgan ukrainis prezidenti saomar moqmedebebSia CarTuli, misi qveyana lamis nangrevebad iqca, aqedan gamomdinare, ar maqvs misi gansjis arc moraluri da arc samarTlebrivi ufleba. rogor iqceva da rogor unda moqceuliyo zelenski, amas uaxloes momavalSi eqspertebi Seafaseben, detalurad ganixilaven uaryofiTsac da dadebiTsac, magram faqti faqtad darCeba, rom ruseTma aSS-is da evrokavSiris saSualebiT, provokaciaze wamoago ukraina da xelhyo misi suvereniteti. Sedegs yvela vxedavT – ra viTarebaa da ra moTxovnebi gaaCnia ruseTis mxares. Tuki adre erTs iTxovda, axla gacilebiT meti moisurva.
– rogor SeafasebT RaribaSvilis pozicias?
– dRes saqarTvelos hyavs xelisufleba, romelic mxolod sakuTar qveyanaze, xalxze fiqrobs da, aqedan gamomdinare, iRebs saerTaSoriso masStabis gadawyvetilebebs. eqspertebi Tavis droze, iseve rogorc zelenskis qmedebebs, Seafaseben mTavrobis mier gadadgmul nabijebs da mxolod amis Semdeg mixvdeba yvela, ramxela ngrevas da sikvdilianobas gadaurCa Cveni qveyana. saqarTvelo ar gamoaklda ruseTis winaaRmdeg mimarTul arcerT rezolucias, mxari dauWira civilizebuli samyaros mier miRebul gadawyvetilebebs. evrokavSiri da ukrainis wamyvani elitac aRiarebs, rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba maqsimalurad exmareba rigi sakiTxebis mogvarebaSi, madlobas gvixdian TanadgomisTvis. keli degnani acxadebs, rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba ukraineli xalxis gverdiT dgas da yvelafers akeTebs omis SesaCereblado. yovelive amis gaTvaliswinebiT, rogorc xelisuflebis gundis warmomadgeneli, vacxadeb, rom Cveni xelisufleba absoluturad sworad moiqca da iqceva am urTules, daZabul viTarebaSi. mesmis, rom emociuri foni Zalian maRalia, mesmis, rom gulgrili ver viqnebiT mimdinare usamarTlo omis Sefasebisas da gamovxatavT da unda gamovxatoT kidec protesti. axalgazrdebi arian gansakuTrebiT SeSfoTebulni, magram arc is dagvaviwydes, rom bevri maTgani Sors dgas politikisgan. zogierTs arc unaxavs an ar axsovs 2008 wlis omi, afxazeTsa da oseTSi mimdinare umowyalo brZolebze aRarafers vambob. verc ki warmoudgeniaT, ras niSnavs omi. Cven patara qveyana varT da gonieri gadawyvetilebebis miReba gvmarTebs. SesaZleblobis farglebSi vakeTebT, rac SegviZlia da upirobod vdgavarT ukraineli xalxis gverdiT. aqve aRvniSnav, rom ar miviCnev `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebis da maTi mimdevrebis pozicias gamarTlebulad. ar mindoda maTi xseneba, magram rodesac qveyanaSi arsebul situacias ajameb, ar gamodis. Cveni qveynis 20 procenti ukve okupirebulia. visi da risi brali iyo, amas mniSvneloba ar aqvs. viciT, rom ruseTi aris okupanti da vmoqmedebT im gadawyvetilebebis mixedviT, romelic saqarTvelos momavlis, misi mosaxleobis keTildReobisTvis iqneba mniSvnelovani.
– baTumSi Semovida rusi turistebis didi nakadi. omis fonze maTi aq Camosvla baTumelebis SeSfoTebas iwvevs.
– aJiotaJi, romelic rusi erovnebis xalxis Semosvlam gamoiwvia, gaumarTlebelia. Tu vacxadebT, rom varT qveyana, romelic xelgaSlilad vmaspinZlobT turistebs, nu dagvaviwydeba stumarTmoyvareoba. maT mimarT uaryofiTi damokidebuleba azianebs, pirvel rigSi, qveynis interesebs da nebismier seqtors rogorc ekonomikurad, ise sxva mimarTulebiT. aqve minda, movuwodo Cvens Tanaqalaqelebs, araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar gamoavlinon agresia CamosulTa mimarT. msgavsi ram, ubralod, ar SegvSvenis. bevri acxadebs uars servisis miwodebaze mxolod da mxolod imitom, rom rusi erovnebis klienti midis masTan.
– ras gvirCevT, rogor moviqceT?
– amisTvis arsebobs Sesabamisi uwyebebi, samsaxurebi, romlebic filtravs, vin megobaria da vin – mteri. daufiqrebelma qmedebebma da gaumarTlebelma emociebma SesaZloa, gamoiwvios is viTareba, rac, araswori politikis gatarebis gamo, ukve viwvnieT warsulSi. vgulisxmob, aqciebs, rodesac ruseTidan gamodevnes iq dasaqmebuli Cveni moqalaqeebi, romlebic asi aTasobiT ojaxs arCendnen saqarTveloSi. es foriaqi cud Sedegebs gamoiRebs isev da isev qarTvelebisTvis, SesaZloa, yvelaferi iseT masStabebze gavides, rogoric veravis warmoudgenia.
– rac Seexeba ukrainis moqalaqeebs. . .
– Cven vRebulobT da kidevac miviRebT ukrainelebs turistis rangSi Tu ltolvilis statusiT. axla turistuli marSrutebiT, cxadia, ar interesdebian ukrainelebi, magram iciT, rom bevri CarCa da veRar brundeba samSobloSi. maT yovelgvar daxmarebas vuwevT rogorc ufaso sastumroebiT, ise sakvebiT, maTTvis saWiro aqsesuarebiTa Tu nivTebiT.
– iqneb dagvizustoT: rusebi sakuTari saxsrebiT Camodian, xolo ukrainelebs vRebulobT ltolvilis statusiT?
– SesaZloa, ukrainelebsac hqondeT fuli, magram maT vexmarebiT rogorc omis msxverplT, ukraina Cveni partniori qveyanaa da davexmarebiT yovelmxriv. ruseTidan Semosul moqalaqeebs ki sakuTari gza da angariSi aqvT. Cven ar gvaqvs ufleba, maT uari vuTxraT saqarTveloSi Semosvlaze, vRebulobT rogorc stumrebs, cxadia, vinc keTili ganzraxviT aris Camosuli.
– finansuri mxarec Zalian ainteresebs xalxs, dolari `avarda~, aq Camosuli rusebi xarjaven imaze mets, vidre adgilobrivi mosaxleoba. TavisTavad cxadia, izrdeba fasebi maSin, rodesac Cveni anazRaureba igive rCeba.
– axla ganvixiloT am viTarebis fiskaluri nawili, romelic SesaZloa daetyos Cvens erovnul valutas. me statistikasac gadavxede, Tan movusmine saqarTvelos ekonomikis ministr levan daviTaSvils. misi gancxadebiT, axla ucxoeTidan aris Semosuli 15-dan 20 aTasamde adamiani, xolo SarSan am dros saqarTveloSi Semovida 30 aTasi, anu am mxriv didi dawola ar momxdara, ubralod, maTi raodenoba TvalSi sacemia omis fonze. veTanxmebi ekonomikis eqsperts lado papavas, rom am dros qveyanaSi xdeba didi odenobis ucxouri valutis Semodineba, Tumca, radgan es xalxi qiraobs, giraobs uZrav qonebas, maTi aq yofna did ryevebs ar gamoiwvevs ekonomikaSi. misive rCeviT, Tavis dasazRvevad, SesaZlebelia limitirebuli procedurebi davawesoT sabanko operaciebis kuTxiT. kerZod, erT adamianze, dRis ganmavlobaSi, garkveuli Tanxis gacema iyos nebadarTuli. amiT xelovnur zRudes SevqmniT, rom rac SeiZleba maqsimaluri Tanxis Semodineba da maqsimaluri dartyma ar moxdes erovnul valutaze.
– mainc ratom wamovidnen rusebi saqarTveloSi, sanqciebs gamoeqcnen?
– albaT sxvadasxva mizeziT. viRac gamoeqca evropis mier dawesebul sanqciebs, radgan iq veRar axerxebs finansuri operaciebis Catarebas da ver axorcielebs bizness. sxvas ar moswons putinis politika da aqeT wamovida, radgan am saomar periodSi aRar daedgomeboda ruseTSi. arian iseTebic, romlebsac miaCniaT, ruseTs didi xnis ganmavlobaSi ar moexsneba evropuli sanqciebi da saqarTveloSi arCia cxovreba. am etapze, ruseTidan SemomsvlelTa didi nawili molodinis reJimSia, elodeba situaciis dalagebas. maTTvis yvelaze xelsayrelia saqarTveloSi dabinaveba, Tundac droebiT, radgan zRvispira regionia, evropa-aRmosavleTis habi, rac gamoadgebaT msxvil biznesmenebs sakuTari saqmeebis warmatebulad gansaxorcieleblad. Tanac, aqedan martivia komunikacia evropasTan, rasac ver vityviT kavkasiis sxva qveynebze. azerbaijani, irani – aziaa, somxeTi ki SuaSia moqceuli da mas mxolod ruseTi esazRvreba. cxadia, unda gavTvaloT, rom Cvenze ar iqonios uaryofiTi gavlena am procesebma. jerjerobiT, gangaSis da panikis safuZveli ar gvaqvs. mivyveT movlenebs. me mainc imeds vitoveb, rom omi male dasruldeba, yvelas da yvelafers gaecema pasuxi da savaraudod, msoflio imsjelebs omis Sedegebis gamosworebasa da sanqciebis Semsubuqeba-moxsnaze.