ჯონდი ბაღათურია: მართებული, ფრთხილი, გონივრული და სახელმწიფოებრივი პოზიცია უჭირავს საქართველოს მთავრობას
ხატია იაშვილი: 27 48 93 –
`qarTuli dasis~ lideri jondi baRaTuria `aWarasTan~ mimdinare sagareo da saSinao politikur procesebze saubrobs, ganixilavs saqarTvelos ekonomikis mdgomareobas da molodinebs.
– rogor SeafasebT ukraina-ruseTis oms?
– es ar aris ruseT-ukrainis omi, ukrainis teritoriaze mimdinareobs natosa da ruseTis samxedro konfliqti, rac Zalian samwuxaroa. erTi mxridan aris rusuli armia da SeiaraReba, meore mxridan – natos qveynebis SeiaraReba, ZiriTadad – aSS-is oficroba, xolo sazarbazne xorcad gamoiyeneben ukrainelebs.
– es sakmaod seriozuli gancxadebaa, vgulisxmob oficrobas . . .
– es ukve cnobili ambavia, axlaxan gadmosca `si-en-enma~, rom erayis omis 180 veterani gaanadgures rusebma poloneTis sazRvarTan ganlagebul lvovis erT-erT samxedro bazaze, romlebic Cavidnen iq amerikis SeerTebuli Statebidan. rusebma `kalibris~ tipis raketebi gauSves da mTeli baza nangrevebad iqca. axla aCvenebdnen, iq aRaraferia darCenili. Zalian saxifaTo omi mimdinareobs, romelic zegavlenas axdens msoflioze, Seexo yvela qveyanas. gadaxedeT fasebs saqarTvelos bazarze. mosaxleoba panikaSia, SimSilobis moaxloebas prognozireben, ris gamoc imarageben brinjs, wiwiburas, makarons, fqvils, Saqars . . . analogiuri situaciaa yvelgan – evropis qveynebsa Tu amerikis kontinentze. evropis savaWro qselebSi Seiqmna deficiti, radgan gazmomaragebis 40% ruseTis segmentia da misi fasi 230-idan 3200 dolaramde gaizarda – 15-jer gaZvirda, es jerarnaxuli fasia, romelic, cxadia, artyams am qveynebis ekonomikas. navTobze fasebi samjeraa gazrdili. dRes erTi litri benzinis fasi ukve ornaxevari evroa, es 10 laria. SeerTebul StatebSic avarda benzinze fasebi, radgan iq rusul navTobs miwodebis bazris 30% ukavia. xedavT, sad gadawvda? okeanis gaRma. yvelas egona, rom aSS calke kontinentzeao, arada, iqac miswvda omis Sedegebi. aqedan gamomdinare, Zalian frTxili da erovnuli politika unda gavataroT qarTvelebma, zedmeti Sextoma-SefrTxialebis gareSe, rac xSirad gvaxasiaTebs.
– rogor SeafasebT zelenskis rols am omSi, romelSic, eqspertebis varaudiT, natos mxardaWeris imediT Caeba.
– ar vfiqrob, rom natoa damnaSave, swored zelenskis da mis korumpirebul politikosebs edebaT brali omis ukrainis teritoriaze gaCaRebisTvis, radganac maT SeeZloT am sisxlisRvris Tavidan acileba. es ori giganti saxelmwifo, uzarmazari ekonomikuri da samxedro resursebiT, erTmaneTs ar unda dajaxeboda ukrainaSi. sadac surdaT, iq eomaT, raRa sakuTari xalxi gaswira ambiciebis dasakmayofileblad?!
– nuTu zelenskim es ar icoda?
– rogor ar icoda, mimaCnia, rom es Segnebuli Ralati iyo. amas adasturebs, rom man, Zalian mwvave dapirispirebis fonze, miunxenis konferenciaze atomur iaraRze gaakeTa ganacxadi. amiT moaxdina ukrainaSi natosa da ruseTis omis pirdapiri provocireba maSin, rodesac natos lideri qveynebi, safrangeTi da germania, yvela Rones xmarobdnen am konfliqtis Tavidan asacileblad. pirvel rigSi, omma daartya evropis qveynebis ekonomikas, gansakuTrebiT, safrangeTsa da germanias. am omis gaCaReba braldeba ukrainis moRalate politikur istebliSments, zelenskis meTaurobiT. bolo akordi iyo miunxenSi birTvuli iaraRis moTxovna. gesmiT, ra xdeba, rogorc ki axseneben atoms, egreve bombaven im qveynebs.
– ra gamosavali rCeba zelenskis, romelic iTxovs putinTan molaparakebas?
– ar vici, ramdenad daTanxmdeba moskovi, radgan putini iTxovs mxolod erTs – srul kapitulacias detalebis dazustebiT.
– ra detalebze iqneba saubari?
– pirovnulze, miscemen Tu ara zelenskis sicocxlis garantias, vis SeunarCuneben qonebas da ase Semdeg. sxva arafris ganxilvas rusuli mxare ar apirebs, amaze aRarc aris saubari. Tavad zelenskim Zalian binZuri sababi misca birTvuli iaraRis moTxovniT, rasac aravin apatiebs. rusebma es daixvies xelze da dRedaRam atrialeben, aqvea biologiuri iaraRis damzadebaze saubaric, romelic isev zelenskis braldeba. amas mxolod mteri Tu gaukeTebs sakuTar qveyanas.
– sakmaod ucnaurad JRers Tqveni sityvebi im fonze, rodesac zelenski gmirad hyavs Seracxuli ara mxolod sakuTar xalxs, mTel civilizebul samyaros.
– rogor SeiZleba gmirad Seracxo adamiani, romelmac gamoiwvia natos da ruseTis Sejaxeba sakuTari qveynis teritoriaze da Seakla mosaxleoba am oris interesebs?! axla iTxovs, ca gadamiketeTo. ras niSnavs cis gadaketva? eubneba natos qveynebs, rom, magaliTad, poloneTis teritoriidan an germaniidan Camoagdon ruseTis TviTmfrinavi. amas xom rusebis pasuxi mohyveba. TavisTavad dabombavs im qveyanas, saidanac gamofrindeba raketa. gamodis, daiwyeba mesame msoflio omi. anu lokalurad – ukrainaSi mimdinare brZolebi, moedeba msoflios, mTeli evropa cecxlSi gaexveva.
– ra finali unda mohyves yvelafer amas?
– mxolod da mxolod mSvidobiani, sxva gza ar gvaqvs, maSin planeta daiRupeba. am wuTebSic ukrainaSi mSvidobiani mosaxleoba iRupeba, rasac gamarTleba ar aqvs arc erTi mxridan. veravin daasabuTebs, ratom ixocebian ukrainelebi, is adamianebi, romlebsac ar surT omi da sikvdili. aqedan gamomdinare, omi unda dasruldes mSvidobianad da rogorme unda gaagebinon am provokator zelenskis da mis gunds, rom mesame msoflio omis provocireba principulad dauSvebelia.
– gavrcelda informacia, rom zelenski gaqceulia ukrainidan.
– msgavsi informacia adrec vrceldeboda. me Tvalyurs vadevneb dasavlur mediasac da rusulsac. simarTle rom yofiliyo, es aucileblad gamoJonavda da didi ambavi atydeboda. ruseTs yvelgan Tavisi Tvali da yuri aqvs, es ar gamoepareboda. principSi, arc dauSveben amas. mTeli ukrainis teritorias sahaero sivrciT akontroleben rusebi, amitom zelenskis gadaadgilebis saSualebas ar miscemen. rogorc vatyob, Zalian mZime Canafiqrebia.
– mainc?
– rusebi xSirad amboben, rom unda gaasamarTlon is ukrainelebi, romlebic 2014 wlidan dRemde adamianebs xocavdnen. vrceldeba informacia, rom bevri xalxi hyavT mokluli lugansksa da doneckSi maSin, rodesac am teritoriebs ukrainuli armia akontrolebda. es Tu dadasturda, vin apatiebs?!
– orive mxare TavisTvis sasargeblo informacias avrcelebs. mousmen ruseTs – moskovi imarjvebs, ukrainas – zelenski. sad aris simarTle?
– aba, rogor unda gegonoT, rom ukraina imarjvebs, miTxariT!
– isic xom faqtia, rom siriidan da cimbiridan gadmohyavs jari putins.
– luganskis da doneckis olqebi ruseTis jars ukavia, rac ukve aris ukrainis mesamedi. didi qalaqebi blokirebulia, Sig ar Sedian, raTa mSvidobiani mosaxleobis msxverpli airidon. qalaqebSi Sesvlas aucileblad mohyveba Setakebebi, radgan ukrainelebi gamagrebulni arian sacxovrebel korpusebSi. kievic blokirebulia. axla poloneTis sazRvarTan arsebuli samxedro bazac gaanadgures . . . mets ras niSnavs gamarjveba, aRar vici.
– rogor SeafasebT saqarTvelos mTavrobis pozicias?
– absoluturad marTebuli, frTxili, gonivruli da saxelmwifoebrivi pozicia uWiravs saqarTvelos mTavrobas. rac axla davinaxe, CemTvis namdvilad gasakviri aRmoCnda. arc patriotizmi aklia maT gadawyvetilebebs da arc sibrZne.
– gansakuTrebiT, romeli gadawyvetileba mogewonaT?
– rom ar SeuerTdnen sanqciebs. rodesac mesmis amis gamo protesti, isterika da pranWva-grexa, mikvirs. maxsendeba, 80-iani wlebis bolos samtrediaSi rkinigza rom gadavketeT, ruseTs blokada gamovucxadeT da . . . meore dRes puri da produqtebi gaqra CvenTan da ara – ruseTSi. meorec, saqarTvelos mTavrobam dabloka `boevikebis~ rekrutireba, saqarTvelodan mebrZolebis gatareba ukrainisken. es Zalian seriozuli gadawyvetileba iyo. mesamec is, rom ar ahyva `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ da misi namsxvrevebis qsenofobiur gamoxtomebs, rom yvirodnen rusi turisti aRar SemovuSvaT qveyanaSio.
– rusebis masobrivad Semosvlaze ras ityviT rogorc ekonomisti? ra zegavlenas moaxdens es qveynis ekonomikaze?
– Tqven xom baTumeli xarT? modiT, ganvixiloT Tqveni qalaqis magaliTze. Cems erT megobars hqonda ori erToTaxiani bina, romlebsac turistebze aqiravebda. 15 aTasi laris `javSani~ hqonda, rodesac `gavrilovis Ramis~ provokaciis Semdeg ruseTma gaauqma frenebi, 13 aTas rvaasi laris `javSani~ avtomaturad gauuqmda, anu amdens ixdidnen rusi turistebi. ekonomikis maCveneblebisTvis, mxolod am faqtis ganzogadebac gveyofa. TvalnaTliv Cans, rogori dartymac SeiZleba miviRoT. Tu SevxedavT energomatareblebis fasebs, aqac araferi gvrCeba saTqmeli. Cven 260-dan 300 dolaramde vixdiT gazSi. saqarTvelo daaxloebiT moixmars 2 milion kubur metr gazs. aqedan 1 milions vyidulobT Zalian momgebian fasSi azerbaijanisa da ruseTisgan, xolo naxevar milions viRebT ruseTisgan ufasod somxeTze gazis gatarebis safasurad, meore naxevars ki azerbaijanSi, baqo-jeihanis milsadenze gatarebis safasurad. am sqemebis darRveva da ruseTisTvis sanqciebis daweseba xom sakuTari xalxis gawirvas niSnavs? katastrofis winaSe aRmovCndebiT, uceb rom gviTxras ruseTma, sami aTasi dolari gadaixadeT gazSio, gamoirTveba saqarTvelo saerTod, imave wams Caqreba Suqi.
– fiqrobT, aqamde ar miva saqme?
– radgan xelT gvaqvs saqarTvelos mTavrobis sami gonivruli gadawyvetileba, vfiqrob, sityvas aRar gadaTqvamen. sxvaTa Soris, kidev erTi dadebiTi simptomia am damokidebulebaSi, romelsac ar axseneben: rodesac ruseTma misTvis aramegobruli qveynebis sia gamoaqveyna, masSi saqarTvelo ar moixsenia.
– ras ambobT, rogor ar laparakoben, amas Ralatad da ruseTTan kavSirad Tvlis bevri. axalgazrdobam Zalian emociurad gamoxata protesti.
– mesmis maTi ganwyoba. mec viyavi maTi toli da kargad maxsovs sakuTari radikalizmi, isic, ra formiT gamovxatavdi uaryofiT emociebs. axalgazrdobas ara aqvs swori informacia faqtobriv mdgomareobaze, ruseTis ekonomikaze, mis samxedro SeiaraRebaze, ris safuZvelzec daskvnas gaakeTeben. 30 weliwadia mimdinareobs maTi gonebis gamorecxva. cxadia, ar ician, rasTan da visTan aqvT saqme. Cven axla unda gavuZloT maT gamosvlebs. 50-milioniani qveyana, praqtikulad, or kviraSi gaanadgures. mTeli dedamiwa ebrZvis ruseTs ukrainis teritoriaze da axla saqarTvelo aklia iq?! vfiqrob, mTavrobis es frTxili nabijebi Tavis Sedegs gamoiRebs. erT rames getyviT, imis miuxedavad, rom araviTari panikis safuZveli saqarTveloSi ar iyo, adamianebma daiwyes im produqtebis momarageba, rac ruseTidan Semodis. iciT, ras gegmavs moskovi? Seamciros produqciis gatana aramegobrul qveynebSi. marto veropis bazrebze rusul xorbals uWiravs 30%. amas alternativa ar aqvs. ruseTi aris msoflios umsxvilesi importiori. xorblis 40%-s msoflios awvdis ruseTi. amis Canacvlebas saidan SeZleben, kompiuterSi xom ver moiyvan purs? omis dros ufasurdeba valuta da oqroc ki. fasi edeba xorbals, mtknar wyals, navTobs, gazs da rkinas, anu fundamentur resursebs. Cvenc rom Segviyvanon im siaSi, sad mivdivarT mere?! xorbali iqidan Semogvaqvs.
– rogor fiqrobT, produqciaze fasebis zrda aRar gagrZeldeba?
– xalxma maragis keTeba daiwyo, moTxovna izrdeba, fasebi matulobs. amas emateba Cveni biznesis arakeTilsindisieri warmomadgenlebic, romlebic qafaven mogebas adamianebis SiSis fonze. erTianad Seqmnes deficiti da fuli akeTes. omis dros aseTi, sabotaJis magvari saqcieli unda isjebodes da imedi maqvs, mTavroba SeZlebs am procesis gakontrolebas.
– eqspertebis azriT, ruseTi yvela variantSi `gamogvivlis~.
– ruseTSic arian antiqarTvelebi da Cveni qveynis momxreebi. saqarTvelos mTavrobis saqcielma, praqtikulad, ganaiaraRa es adamianebi da seriozuli argumentebi misca proqarTulad ganwyobil rus Cinovnikebs, romlebic Seecdebian saqarTvelosTvis sasicocxlod aucilebeli sakiTxebis uaxloes xanebSi ganxilvas da Cvens sasargeblod gadawyvetas. moskovTan dialogs CvenTvis alternativa ara aqvs. ruseTze Tavdasxma erTxel napoleonma scada da damTavrda parizis aRebiT. meored – hitlerma, dasrulda berlinis aRebiT. sxvaTa Soris, berlini orjer aiRes. simarTle giTxraT, mizezsac ver vxedav, ratom unda gadavitexoT joxi Tavze?! amerikis SeerTebuli Statebis prezidenti gamodis da acxadebs, Cemi qveynis dabombvis provocirebas ver davuSvebo da Cven ratom viklavT Tavs, ver gavige. axla ise unda moviqceT, ruseTs ar SevewiroT, imis miuxedavad, gaimarjvebs Tu damarcxdeba. Cveni mTavroba yvelafers kargad uZRveba, jvari eweros da, imedi maqvs, avicilebT saqarTvelos damangrevel oms Tavidan.
