“სუიციდური ჟინით განმსჭვალული ბევრი ადამიანი გვყავს ქვეყანაში”
მარიამ ხითარიშვილი: 27 48 93 –
gTavazobT intervius politmimomxilvel soso manjaviZesTan (Cawerilia 17 marts).
– urTierTgamomricxavi informaciebi modis frontis wina xazidan. Tu gaqvT zusti cnobebi, ra xdeba ukrainaSi, saiTkenaa gadaxrili omis saswori?
– araTanabaria es omi, rac gasagebi unda iyos yvelasTvis. faqtia, rom ukrainis SeiaraRebis didi nawili ganadgurebulia. aq igulisxmeba aviacia, sazenito, saartilerio kompleqsebi, im sawarmoebis didi wili, sadac uSvebdnen, magaliTad, tank `oplots~ (xarkovSi), an xdeboda samxedro teqnikis SekeTeba. es im periodSi xdeba, rodesac ruseTis bombdamSenebi ukrainis Tavze batonobs. pirveli Sokis Semdeg, rogorc ki gonze moegnen ukrainelebi, Zalian didi winaaRmdegoba gauwies ruseTis armias. ruseTis mxridan es Seteva cudad iyo dagegmili, radgan agebuli aRmoCnda araswor warmodgenebze da, teqnikuri upiratesoba rom ara, SesaZloa, pirveli kraxic ganecada, Tumca, vxedavT, rom ukve aiRes xersoni, mariupoli, sadac yvelaze mZlavri samxedro dajgufeba `azovi~ iyo alyaSemortymuli. axla aq Tavmoyril Zalebs moxsnian rusebi da mimarTaven sxva samizneebisken. nela, magram mizanmimarTulad mimdinareobs ukrainis yvelaze brZolisunariani samxedro danayofebis alyis Semortymis procesi. mogexsenebaT, ukrainelTa yvelaze kargad gamagrebuli SeiaraRebuli nawilebi ganlagebulia doneckis da luganskis saxalxo respublikebis gaswvriv maSin, rodesac ruseTi haeridan akontrolebs, ukrainelebs am jaris deblokadirebis anu blokadidan moxsnis da teritoriidan gayvanis Sansic ar eZlevaT. ukrainelebi maqsimalurad cdiloben Setevebis ganxorcielebas, aseTi iyo xersonis olqSi aerodromis dabombva, ris Sedegadac ruseTis bevri samxedro teqnika ganadgurda da dazianda, Tumca es epizoduri warmateba ver cvlis ukrainaSi mimdinare omis xasiaTs, radgan brZolebi ZalTa im gaTvaliswinebiT mimdinareobs, romelic arsebobs, anu nato am omSi fizikurad ar ereva, garda imisa, rom axdens moxaliseebis mobilizacias, iaraRis miwodebas, ruseTis winaaRmdeg awarmoebs sanqciur oms, romelic azianebs rogorc ruseTis SeiaraRebul Zalebs, ise ekonomikasac, magram ver axdens gavlenas omis Sedegebze. vgulisxmob, nel-nela, magram mtkiced win miiwevs ruseTis armia da erTimeores miyolebiT blokavs ukrainis sajariso nawilebs, agrZelebs gzas, TandaTan ikavebs ukrainis teritorias da sul ufro axal rezervebs rTavs brZolebSi. es maSin, rodesac ukrainas ar aqvs saSualeba, aRidginos samxedro potenciali am katastrofuli danakargebis Semdeg . . . aseTia mimdinare omSi arsebuli realuri viTareba. rac Seexeba propagandas, yovelTvis iyo da iqneba, gansakuTrebiT omebis warmoebis procesSi. mowinaaRmdegeebi erTmaneTis danakargebs amravleben 5-7-8-jerac ki, Tavisas amcireben statistikisTvis. amas yvela vxedavT. aseve Cans `feik niusebis~ ganusazRvreli raodenoba. isic unda aRiniSnos, rom dasavleTis qveynebis ritorika da mowodebebis – `ukrainelebo, gamagrdiT, gaagrZeleT brZola~ – zneobrioba, Zneli Sesafasebeli ar aris. amerikis vice-prezidentma kamala harisma, romelic arakompetenturobiT da komikurobiT gamoirCeva, poloneTSi saocari sityva Tqva: rom is mxars uWers ukrainel xalxs, romelic icavs natos ruseTisgano. es aRniSna msoflio presam. isic simptomaturia, rom TeTri saxli swored mas uSvebs dedamiwis urTulesi krizisis gansamuxtad imis miuxedavad, rom am qalbatons ar aqvs sagareo politikaSi araviTari wona.
– prezident zelenskis yvela CarTvas aRfrTovanebiT da ovaciiT xvdebian, magram man jerjerobiT isev ver miaRwia mTavar mizans – cis Caketvas rusuli TviTmfrinavebisTvis. mis sityvas usmenen, magram ar esmiT.
– ra Tqma unda, zelenskis aqvs Tavisi funqcia Sesasrulebeli. imis iqiT misi azri da mimarTvebi aravis ainteresebs. mimdinareobs geopolitikuri omi, romlis mizanic mowinaaRmdegis dasusteba da, Tu gamouvaT, ise ganadgurebaa, rom ar miiRon sapasuxo dartyma da ziani. es strategiaSi uweriaT amerikelebs da axorcieleben. gamovaqveyne statia, korporacia rendis kvleva, `anakondis maryuJis Tanamedrove variaciebi~. eqvsi strategiaa da yvelas wiTel xazad gasdevs, rogor unda gaaRiziano da axarjvino resursebi ruseTs ise, rom ar miadges ziani aSS-s, mis mokavSireebs da konfliqti ar mivides birTvul omamde. cxadia, inicacitiva dasavleTis xelSia, ruseTi ki Tavisi imperiuli Zlierebis aRdgenas cdilobs. swored es aris geopolitikuri omi, romelic arasdros Cerdeba, radgan am politikis sastiki kanonebis mixedviT, risTvisac ar ibrZvi, imas kargav. ukraina aRmosavleT evropaa, razedac dasavlur geopolitikur skolis fuZemdeblebs helford jon makinders, nikolas spikmens da sxvebs hqondaT gansakuTrebuli gaTvlebi. sxvaTa Soris, makinders ekuTvnis gamonaTqvami: `is, vinc akontrolebs aRmosavleT evropas, akontrolebs msoflio kunZuls, xolo is, vinc akontrolebs msoflio kunZuls (igulisxmeba evrazia), is akontrolebs msoflios~. amas xSirad imeorebda bJezinskic, is imasac ambobda, rom `ruseTi ukrainasTan erTad aris globaluri imperia, mis gareSe ki regionaluri saxelmwifo~. amas vambob, rom gvesmodes, ratom aris aseTi gaafTrebuli brZola. imTaviTve gasagebi iyo, rom am geopolitikuri xazis gadmoweva ukrainisken da iq Tanamedrove SeiaraRebis ganlageba, ruseTs aiZulebda exmara kontrzomebi. manamdec vwerdi, rom es daayenebda kacobriobas atomuri omis safrTxis winaSe, rac Sesrulda kidec. datrialda omis morevi, romelic met da met qveynebs iTrevs. Tu droze ar SeCerda, miviRebT umarTav procesebs, rogorc xSirad xdeboda istoriaSi – aqtorebs egonaT, situacias akontrolebdnen, magram Semdeg veRarafers axerxebdnen mis SesaCereblad.
– molaparakebebi grZeldeba. amJamad ruseTisa da ukrainis delegaciebi TavianT poziciebze dganan. sadavo punqtebze SeTanxmebas SesaZloa, ramdenime dRidan kviranaxevramde vada dasWirdeso, ganacxada ukrainis prezidentis aparatis ufrosis mrCevelma mixail podoliakma.
– verc erTi mxare daTmobebze ver wava, sanam brZolebi mimdinareobs. cxadia, ruseTs Tamasa maRla aqvs aweuli da kidec rom undodes, ver moaxerxebs daTmobebze wasvlas, Tundac minskis SeTanxmebis msgavsad. putins Seurigebeli pozicia uWiravs, iseTi moTxovnebi aqvs, romelTa Sesrulebis SemTxvevaSi ukrainis verc erTi xelisufali adgilze ver SenarCundeba. realuri molaparakebebi Sedgeba mxolod maSin, rodesac romelime mxare gadamwyvet samxedro upiratesobas moipovebs. msgavsi Sansi dRes ukrainas ar aqvs. zelenski imedovnebs, propagandis meSveobiT, mosaxleobas imedi misces, amasTan, miiRos SeiaraReba da iseTi ziani miayenos rusul jars, rom veRar gaagrZelos brZola, Tan maqsimalurad gawelos dro. ramdenad realisturia gaTvla, amis Sefaseba mkiTxvelisTvis mimindvia. gaTvla, rom Sig ruseTSi moxdeboda destabilizacia, ar gamarTlda, piriqiTi procesi wavida, uamravi moxalise Caewera ukrainaSi saomrad. mogvwons Tu ara, faqtia, rom aseTi mentalitetis mosaxleoba hyavs ruseTs. samwuxarod, Cvens sazogadoebas dasCemda fsiqikuri avadmyofoba – faqtebs ebrZvian. rodesac realur analizs akeTeb, hgonia, viRacis mxares xar. arada, vcdilob, obieqturad warmovaCino realoba. urCevniaT, usminon gordons, romelic Tvlis, rom moskovTan arian da putini mkvdaria. maxsendeba istoriuli magaliTebi, rodesac propagandistebma bevri xalxi daRupes. raRa Sors wavideT, 2008-Si televiziiT uyurebdnen, rom javasTan ibrZoda Cveni jari da am dros kazakebi daadgnen saxlebSi. axla cekva-TamaSze aRarafers vityvi. saqarTvelo pataraa, yvelaferi uceb gairkva, ukraina didia. eraySi hyavdaT `marTali ali~, mTavrobis pressamsaxuris ufrosi. telegadacemebic mihyavda. acxadebda, amerikelebi buzebiviT ixocebian udabnoSi, ukve damarcxdneno, TviTmfrinavebi CamovyareT, gemebi CavZireTo da . . . am dros studiaSi waadgnen amerikeli samxedroebi.
– principSi, isic xom faqtia, rom omis pirvel etapze rusebma bevri jariskaci dakarges?
– ki, rusebi Tavidan daibnen, magram Semdeg azrze movidnen, uzarmazari resursebi aqvT, rogorc samxedro, ise adamianuri, 1941 wels milionobiT Cavarda tyved, magram Semdeg rac moxda, isic viciT. napoleonma xom, saerTod, moskovi aiRo, magram . . . aRar gavagrZeleb. aqvT didi omebis warmoebis gamocdileba da ra ginda, rom qna? ramdenjer aiRes evropis dedaqalaqebi, vin moTvlis. am tradiciebis qveyanaa da ar SeiZleba misi ugulebelyofa.
– qalaqebs ratom ar iReben?
– rodesac qalaqs iReb, iq ixoceba adgilobrivi mosaxleoba, bevri msxverplia, Tanac rTulia mZime teqnikis, saartilerio da sxva operaciebis warmoeba. maSin sul unda gadaasworo Senobebi, rasac, albaT, eridebian. cdiloben, blokirebiT gadawyviton saqme. mariupolSi Sevidnen, sxvagvarad warimarTa saqme. mokled, mimdinareobs sastiki omi dasavleTsa da ruseTs Soris ukrainis teritoriaze.
– saqarTvelos mTavrobis poziciaze ras gvetyviT?
– saqarTvelos mTavroba cdilobs, humanitaruli daxmareba gauwios ukrainelebs, SeuerTda yvela saerTaSoriso rezolucias, romelic am oms gmobs, magram Tavi Seikava im sanqciebisgan, romelmac SesaZloa, qveyanas fataluri Sedegebi moutanos, anu gamoiwvios ruseTis umarTavi reaqcia. mxolod idiots ZaluZs amis gauTvaliswinebloba.
– bevri ar dageTanxmebaT am gamoTqmaSi, batono soso . . .
– samwuxarod, suiciduri JiniT ganmsWvaluli marTlac bevri adamiani gvyavs qveyanaSi. isini aRgznebuli arian im propagandiT, romelic moedineba mediis saSualebiT, raSic lideroben `nacebis~ ideologiis qveS moqceuli telearxebi. saocari araadekvaturi ritorikis tyveobaSi moqceuli xalxi cdilobs, rom arsebuli omi gadaiyvanon gabedulebis, simamacis zneobriv kategoriaSi. yvelaze didi komedia is aris, rom zneobasa da samSoblos dacvaze alaparakdnen is adamianebi, romlebic amas ebrZvian mTeli cxovreba. Tundac usufaSvili, `girCi~ da sxvebi aqeT gvamunaTeben, rogor ar gindaT CaerToT omSio, arada, Tavad ebrZodnen erovnuli saxelmwifos ideas da erovnul narativs. davaleba aqvs miRebuli dasavleTidan am mexuTe kolonas.
– principSi, swored dasavleTma moaxvia ukrainas Tavs omi, putini vincaa, viciT, magram amaTi SeSfoTeba-aRSfoTeba ukve gamaRizianebelia.
– ki, asea, gvavaleben maTTvis brZolas. rodesac gamozrdi mTavrobebs, reJimebs, is unda gamoiyeno nebismier geopolitikur brZolaSi rogorc modaraje ZaRli, romelsac amisTvis apureb da gyavs.
– ruseTidan moqalaqeebis saqarTveloSi Semosvlaze ras gvetyviT?
– did saSiSroebas isini ar warmoadgenen. sxvadasxva mizeziT wamovidnen ruseTidan. aq didxans ar gaCerdebian. umjobesia, Tu maT mimarT ar gavamJRavnebT agresiul, mtrul damokidebulebas. mSvidad unda davicvaT Cveni interesebi. xizani unda daapuro, Seifaro, magram ar unda misce mas, qveyanaSi darCenis da aq eTnikur-religiuri balansis Secvlis saSualeba, risi safrTxec am SemTxvevaSi ar gaqvs. amave dros, unda gaviTvaliswinoT, rom ukrainaSi sabrZolo moqmedebebis dasrulebis Semdeg, miT umetes, Tu ruseTma miaRwia mizans, postsabWoTa sivrceSi radikalurad Seicvleba viTareba. amisTvis, mentalurad unda viyoT mzad. maqsimalurad SevecadoT, rom geopolitikuri Zalebis gadalageba-gadajgufeba Cvens xarjze ar moxdes. es aris dRes qarTveli xalxis amocana da ara gare Zalebis dakveTiT gapatriotebuli subieqtebis aqeT-iqiT wanwali da maTi piari.
