ლევან ანთაძე: ჯართის პირველ იმპორტიორად იქცა რუსეთი უკრაინაში
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 93 –
gTavazobT intervius aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputat levan anTaZesTan, romelic Tvlis, rom saqarTvelos mTavrobis politika miuRebelia qarTuli sazogadoebisTvis, radgan ukraina-ruseTis omis Sefasebisas ver iCens saTanado gambedaobas. misi TqmiT, sasworze devs qveynis suvereniteti, Rirseba. Tu msgavsi politika gagrZeldeba, male Cveni xelisufleba neitralitets daTanxmdeba da afxazeTisa da oseTis damoukideblobasac aRiarebs
– batono levan, samwuxarod, opozicia negatiur imijs uqmnis saqarTvelos mTavrobas saerTaSoriso sarbielze.
– Cveni pozicia saqarTvelos mTavrobis qmedebebidan gamomdinareobs – Znelia ar gagiCndes protesti qveynis pirveli pirebis mimarT. ra Sefaseba SeiZleba mivceT imas, rom agresori qveynis warmomadgenlebi gaqeben, xolo problema gaqvs TavisuflebisaTvis mebrZoli qveynis xelisuflebasTan, romelsac mTeli gonieri kacobrioba uWers mxars.
– Cveni mTavrobac xom uWers mxars?
– es sityvierad, Torem gadaxedeT, ra xdeba realurad. ubralod rom vTqvaT, Cveni mTavroba sakuTari mosaxleobis ganwyobasac ver gamoxatavs. kargad iciT, rogoria xalxis damokidebuleba ruseT-ukrainis omis mimarT da amaSia problemac.
– mTavroba gonier, frTxil politikas atarebs. . .
– diax, sifrTxile da SiSi gasagebia, aravis unda ruseTTan omi. msgavss aravin sTavazobs.
– ras ambobT, bevri adamiani opozicias abralebs, rom saqarTvelos omSi CaTreva surs.
– araviTar SemTxvevaSi, es ar aris marTali. is, rasac gvabraleben, mTavrobis ideologiis nawilia, rom cudad gamogvaCinon sakuTari xalxis TvalSi. kargad gakeTebuli piaria, mxolod ase axerxeben mosaxleobis gaRizianebas Cvens mimarT da zedmeti qulebis daweras.
– igive teqstebs Tqvens mimarT `qarTuli ocnebis~ warmomadgenlebisgan vismenT.
– sxva ra unda Tqvan Tavis gasamarTleblad. brma unda iyo, ver dainaxo, realurad rac Cveni qveynis irgvliv xdeba. rodesac opozicia iTxovs ukrainas davuWiroT mxari, amiT omSi CarTvisken aravis ubiZgebs, piriqiT, mSvidoba gvinda da gvinda ar davrCeT ganapiras, rodesac civilizebuli samyaro borotebis imperiis damxobas izeimebs. dRes visac surs omi, kargad Cans – putins da mis garemocvas. ruseTTan TamaSiT, bolo 10 wlis ganmavlobaSi veraferi miviReT mcocavi okupaciis, gatacebuli adamianebis da mokluli mSvidobiani moqalaqeebis garda. mesmis, frTxilad rom unda viyoT, magram es ar niSnavs, rom yvelaferze davTanxmdeT da davuwveT putins. omi ukrainaSia da ara ruseTSi, amitom, rbilad rom vTqvaT, gaugebaria `ocnebis~ mTavari ideologis kobaxiZis gafrTxileba, aq Camosuli rusebi ar SevaviwrovoTo. arc amaze gvaqvs garTuleba, magram pirvel rigSi, rusebis mier dabombili da dangreuli qalaqebidan gamoqceul ukrainel devnilebs ar unda mivxedoT? am adamianebma ojaxis wevrebi dakarges, saxli Tavze CamoeqcaT, amxela SiSi, gaWirveba da tkivili gadaitanes. maTi mamakacebi mtris tyvias mkerds uSveren da agresorebs mamacurad igerieben. am fonze, sabanko operaciebisa da komfortis ZebnaSi aq mozRvavebul rus turistebze zrunva, uxerxulad mimaCnia. imas ar vambob, Tavs davesxaT da gavdevnoT, magram xmamaRla nu acxadeben mainc, gaufrTxildiTo.
– ra unda gaakeTon, ar SemouSvan rusi erovnebis moqalaqeebi?
– dRes Cven ruseTTan hibridul omSi vimyofebiT. uSiSroeba, kontrdazverva da saTanado organoebi fxizlad unda iyos, rom ar Semogveparos ruseTis xelisuflebis agresiuli interesebis gasatareblad specjgufebi. aqamde ar daukavebiaT arcerTi agenti, ar ician, vin Camodis, ra interesi aqvs. es omi mxolod ukrainis xom ar aris, Cvenicaa.
– Cveni ratomaa?
– pirvelive ultimatumi, romelic gaaJRera putinma, exeboda ukrainas da saqarTvelos neitralitets da warTmeuli teritoriebis aRiarebas. Cven, opozicias, ar gvinda am omSi CarTva, ruseTs unda da isev marto rom ar davrCeT, unda gavaZlieroT kontaqtebi sxva mowinave qveynebTan, mokavSireebTan. vis gverdiT varT, unda davafiqsiroT, anu rasac Cven viTxovT, ar niSnavs oms, es niSnavs saqarTvelos gadarCenas.
– saqarTvelos mTavrobam xom dauWira mxari mTel rig rezoluciebs?
– ar aris sakmarisi is, rasac saqarTvelos xelisufleba akeTebs. SiSma ar unda dagZlios, roca saqme sakuTari qveynis momavals exeba. axla moiTxova ruseTma neitraliteti, xval moiTxovs afxazeTis da oseTis respublikebis aRiarebas, mzad varT amisTvis? Cven xom ar dagviyenebia es ultimatumi, putinma daayena, Tan orive qveyana, saqarTveloc da ukrainac gverdigverd axsena pirvelive werilSi. anu es niSnavs, dRes ukrainas daesxa Tavs, xval saqarTveloSi Semova.
– ruseTi ukve Semosulia saqarTveloSi, omi rom daiwyos, gavuwevT winaaRmdegobas?
– aba ra vqnaT, vaRiaroT afxazeTi da oseTi?
– ara, amaze vin wava?!
– Cven ki ar varT darwmunebuli, rom saqarTvelos amJamindeli xelisufleba ar wava amaze, arada, faqtia, rom es ultimatumi devs Cvens winaSe. Tanac samxreT oseTze rom saubroben, aba hkiTxeT separatistebs da rusebs ra sazRvrebSi moiazreben am teritorias. borjomis xeobas gulisxmoben. me ar var mzad amisTvis, saqme saqmeze rom midges, iaraRs aviReb xelSi da davicav saqarTvelos sazRvrebs. ase rom, ritorika `omi undaT~, ar aris marTali, omi Cven ar gvinda, putins unda. warmatebas Tu miaRweven ukrainaSi (darwmunebuli var, es ar iqneba), eWvi xom ar geparebaT, rom saqarTveloSic `Semigvivlian~ da im ultimatumis Sesrulebas mogvTxoven. moldovac ar SeuerTda sanqciebs, magram iq myofi ukrainis elCi aravis gauwvevia. mxolod Cveni elCi gaiyvanes demonstraciulad. xom SeeZlo, ar gaecxadebia kobaxiZes specialurad mowveul brifingze, rom ar uerTdebian sanqciebs? es gaakeTa ruseTis gasagonad, Tqvensken varT da ar gegonoT, ukrainas vuWerT mxarso. anu ra gvinda qarTvelebs, sibnelis mxares vidgeT, rkinis fardas amovefaroT da kadirovi dagviniSnon rusuli reJimis mmarTvelad, Tu Tavisuflebis, demokratiis, qveynis suverenitetis dasacavad unda davdgeT?
– dRes sad dgas nato?
– amerikis SeerTebuli Statebi, evropa, civilizebuli samyaro, nato dgas ukrainis gverdiT.
– dgas mxolod sityvierad da mxurvale taSiT, Tumca arc cocxali ZaliT, arc iaraRiT exmareba da arc ca dauketa, amdeni Txovnis miuxedavad. esec xom `ocnebis~ mogonili ar aris, zelenskis sityvebia. yovel cismare dRes evedreba yvelas, Tumca uSedegod.
– modiT, ase vTqvaT, meomar mxares eqneba amis moTxovna, imitom, rom Tavad ibrZvis da mosaxleoba exoceba. amerika ukrainis mxaresaa. ager, oriod dRis win gaaJRera baidenma, Tuki ruseTi gabedavs qimiuri Tu birTvuli iaraRis gamoyenebas, miiRebs adekvatur pasuxso. es gafrTxileba ruseTis Semakavebeli berketia, iseve, rogorc sanqciebi. Tqven xom gjeraT, rom arc evropas waadgeba es sanqciebi, sakmaod izaraleben, magram isic ician, rom agresoris dasamarcxeblad da dasasusteblad aris aucilebeli. evropa did danakargze midis imisTvis, rom ruseTs ar misces omis dafinansebis saSualeba.
– jer isev ver moaxerxes ruseTis agresiis SeCereba da ar mgonia, rom baidenis sityva iRos yurad putinma.
– ar aris ase. ukve yvelam dainaxa, rom daimsxvra ruseTis uZlevelobis miTi. imdenad dazaralda rusuli ekonomika, rom ver uzrunvelyofs sakuTari moqalaqeebis moTxovnilebebs. jari absoluturad gaZarcvuli aRmoCnda. msgavss araTu evropa, Tavad putinic ar eloda. mas egona, elvis siswrafiT moipovebda ukrainaze gamarjvebas, magram ukve Tve gavida da realuri winsvla ar aqvs. SemorCenilia ukrainis teritoriaze da veRarc gareT gamodis da verc win midis. ukrainam daanaxa kacobriobas, rom SesaZlebelia agresoris SeCereba, amitom Tvlis mTeli msoflio, rom TavisuflebisTvis mebrZol am qveyanas gverdiT unda davudgeT riTac SevZlebT, iqneba es humanitaruli daxmareba, devnilebis miReba-gansaxleba Tu mebrZolebis gagzavna.
– sergeenkos gancxadebiT, arc erT opozicioner parlamentars erTi TeTri ar gadauricxavs ukrainelTa daxmarebis fondSi. amaze ras fiqrobT?
– Cven ar vfiqrobT, omis dawyebis pirveli dRidan vmoqmedebT. 24 Tebervals CavatareT brifingi da me TviTon vesaubre aWaris umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomare daviT gabaiZes, xelisuflebis sxva warmomadgenlebs humanitaruli daxmarebis ofisis gamoyofaze. pasuxi ar migviRia. `lelos~ daxmarebiT ra saxsrebic gvqonda, movawyveT ofisi, romelic dRemde aqtiurad moqmedebs da uwevs koordinirebas ukrainis daxmarebis msurvelebs. ukve 3 marts, saelCos daxmarebiT, gavagzavneT ukrainaSi humanitaruli daxmarebis pirveli tvirTi. 11 marts gavagzavneT 20 tona tvirTi odesaSi. orive adgilzea Casuli. 27 marts mikroavtobusiT gavagzavneT humanitaruli daxmareba isev odesaSi, oriod dReSi, kidev 20 tonas gavgzavniT. garda amisa, Zalian bevri devnili miviReT ukrainidan. saxelmwifom, mxolod omamde Camosul da aq CarCenil ukrainelebs misca sastumro ufasod. 300-mde adamiani baTumelebis TanadgomiT davasaxleT, maTive mowodebuli sursaT-sanovagiT davexmareT. ramdenime kafea baTumSi, sadac 200 adamians kvebaven absoluturad usasyidlod. am ambebSi varT CarTuli, amiT vexmarebi Cems qveyanas, im adamianebs, ukrainis da Cemi saqarTvelos momavlisTvisac rom ibrZvian.
– mesmis omia, magram 2 aprilic axlovdeba, emzadebiT Tu ara Sualeduri arCevnebisTvis?
– ra Tqma unda, vemzadebiT. nugzar futkaraZis gardacvaleba `qarTuli ocnebis~ sindiszea. soliduri Tanxa SesTavazes, uari uTxra, magram mainc ar anebebdnen Tavs. piradad CemTvis ramdenjer uTqvams, rom Zalian nerviulobda amas da gardaicvala kidec. axla, misi Svili maTe futkaraZe iyris kenWs da Rirsebis saqmed migvaCnia misi im olqSi gamarjveba, sadac Tavad nugzarma pirvelive turSi gaimarjva.
– Sexvedrebs atarebT albaT, ras ambobs mosaxleoba, vis uWers mxars?
– vatarebT, rogor ara, yvela acxadebs, rom baTumma erTxel ukve airCia opoziciuri sakrebulo da axlac igives gaakeTebs. isinic gveTanxmebian, rom am etapze Rirsebis arCevnebi tardeba da aucileblad opoziciis sasargeblod miscemen xmebs. erT samarcxvino faqts getyviT, 1053 axali amomrCeveli Caweres im olqSi, maT Soris `ocnebis qalaqSi~, sadac es arCevnebi tardeba.
– xom gaaprotesteT, ra gipasuxes?
– ra unda Tqvan, araferi. es Cawera ganxorcielda 1 martidan 17 martamde. haerSi, umisamarTod Caweres walkidan da jumaTidan Camosuli adamianebi, romlebmac erTxel ukve misces xma sakuTar TviTmmarTvelobebs, axla meorejer mivlen saarCevno ubnebSi. cxadia, xvdebiT, vis miscemen xmas. xelisuflebis yvela Stoa amaSi CarTuli, maT Soris iusticiis saministro, iusticiis saxlebi, aWaris mTavroba, Tavad ramaz jinWaraZe, Cemi Tanaklaseli, romelic me davniSne ministris moadgiled. . . minda visargeblo SemTxveviT da ramazs mivmarTo, Tu Rirseba SerCa, ar miiRos monawileoba am arCevnebSi. `qarTuli ocneba~ wava, SeiZleba `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobac~ wavides, magram Rirseba da Rirseuli moqalaqeebi darCebian am qalaqSi.
– Tu SeiZleba, isev ukrainis Temas mivubrundeT? ra finals unda velodoT?
– erTaderTi, rac putins da ruseTs esmis, Zalismieri enaa. ukrainelebma sakuTari da civilizebuli msoflios Zliereba daanaxes mas. yvelam gaigo, rom misi gapiarebuli jari jarTad gadaiqca da jarTis pirvel importiorad iqca ruseTi ukrainaSi. rac ufro meti zewola iqneba ukrainaze, rac ufro mWidrod iqnebian evropa, aSS, saqarTvelo da msoflios mowinave qveynebi, miT ufro male dasruldeba omi da aRar daixocebian bavSvebi, qalebi, moxucebi da axalgazrda, jansaRi jariskacebi. jer kidev 2008 wels Searbiles putinis da ruseTis winaaRmdeg Sefasebebi, isic iTqva, miSa saakaSvili ar uyvarda da imitom Semovida saqarTveloSio. ra gaakeTa putinma? aiRo yirimi, Semdeg luganski da donbasi, axla ukrainaSia. mxolod maSin SeaCerebs svlas, rodesac Zalis winaaRmdeg daaxvedreb Zalas. gava dro da Cven madlobas vetyviT ukrainelebs, rom swored maTi daxmarebiT SevinarCuneT Tavisufleba, demokratia da qveynis suvereniteti.
