,,მსოფლიოს უდიდესი ნაწილისთვის მიუღებელია მშვიდობიანი მოსახლეობის სამიზნედ ქცევა”
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 93 –
gaerTianebuli erebis organizaciis cnobiT, omis dawyebidan erTi Tvis SedegebiT, ukrainelTa ojaxebis 45%-s sakvebis mopovebis problema awuxebs: `yoveli mexuTe iZulebulia, mimarTos SimSilis daZlevis sxvadasxva xerxs, maT Soris – amcirebs miRebuli sakvebis ulufas, anda iSviaTad iRebs sakvebs. zrdasruli adamianebi amcireben sakvebis miRebas imisTvis, rom meti SexvdeT bavSvebs~
gaeros msoflio sursaTis programis mier tviteriT gavrcelebuli cnobiT, yvelaferi keTdeba, rom organizacia `miswvdes 3 milionze met adamians ukrainaSi da aseve daexmaros ltolvilebsa da im ojaxebs, romlebmac isini Seifares~.
generaluri mdivnis antoniu gutereSis mier gamoqveynebuli bolo informaciiT, gaerom gadaudebeli daxmareba gauwia 700 000 ojaxs ukrainaSi da kvlavac farTovdeba daxmarebis masStabebi. . .
Tveze meti gavida mas Semdeg, rac ruseTi ukrainaSi SeiWra da saomar moqmedebebs awarmoebs. ruseTis armia daundoblad utevs mSvidobian moqalaqeebs, maT Soris, qalebsa da bavSvebs. milionobiT adamiani iZulebuli gaxda, daetovebina qveyana.
am da sxva sakiTxebze gTavazobT intervius yofil parlamentarTan, politikos svetlana kudbasTan, romelic aqtiurad muSaobs saxalxo diplomatiis gamoyenebiT afxaz xalxTan daaxloebisTvis.
– qalbatono svetlana, rogorc vici, raRac etapze saxalxo diplomatiis kuTxiT muSaoba Senelda.
– saxalxo diplomatia Zveleburad muSaobs. pandemiis gamo Zalian SeizRuda rigi RonisZiebebi da Sexvedrebi, romelsac vaxorcielebdiT manamde. darwmunebul var, male pandemia miileva da am mimarTulebiT isev gavaqtiurdebiT, radgan saqarTvelo arasdros dakargavs kontaqtebs sakuTar afxaz ZmebTan. axla moqmedebs afxazi mosaxleobis ufaso mkurnalobis programa, maTTvis gamiznuli efeqturi socialuri programebi da sxva.
– rogorc vici, naTesavebi gyavT ukrainaSi.
– ki, deda myavda ukraineli. Cemi deidaSvil-biZaSvilebi axla iq imyofebian da xom warmogidgeniaT, ra dReSi var. Cemi meuRlis – anzor kudbas ZmisSvili kievSi cxovrobda, axla datova iqauroba dabombvebis gamo da poloneTSi gadavida. saSineli viTarebaa, aravin icis, rodis dasruldeba es Semzaravi omi da rodis moeReba bolo putinis da misi damqaSebis agresias. vin ifiqrebda, rom 21-e saukuneSi aseTi omis momswre gavxdebodiT.
– swored 21-e saukuneSi daiwyo ruseTma agresiuli qmedebebi.
– diax, CvenTanac iyo omi 2008 wels, magram aseTi srulmasStabiani ara, radgan aravin dagvidga mxarSi realurad. maSin rom apaties ruseTs, imitom gabeda Semdeg yirimis aReba, doneckis da luganskis olqebis saxalxo respublikebad gamocxadeba da Tavad ukrainis suverenitetis xelyofa. moindoma yvelaferi erTad da swrafad. es imitom, Tavis droze rom ar daisaja saqarTvelos teritoriebis okupirebisTvis. maSin CvenTan uamravi axalgazrda daixoca, iyo msxverpli mSvidobian mosaxleobaSic, magram mxolod aRSfoTebiT Semoifargla dasavleTi. marTalia, TanxiT dagvexmarnen, magram, ruseTs arc ki mosTxoves pasuxi. piriqiT, Cvenze Seitana ruseTma uamravi sarCeli omis mimdinareobis dros, TiTqosda adamianTa uflebebis darRvevebis gamo. Tavis droze imis mesamedic rom gakeTebuliyo, rac axla, msoflio birTvuli omis saSiSroebis winaSe ar dadgeboda.
– Tqven gaqvT kontaqtebi ukrainelebTan. rogori ganwyobaa xalxSi?
– ornairi. nuravin Seiqmnis iluzias, rom yvela ruseTis winaaRmdegia, radgan ukrainaSi Zalian didi raodenobis rusulenovani mosaxleobaa, romelsac ar surs omi sakuTar xalxTan. Tanac, iqauri politikuri istebliSmenti sakmaod bevrs ar moswons da axla xelze aqvT daxveuli amxela msxverpli da infrastruqturuli zarali. erTia ura-patriotizmi, romelsac yvela telearxi gadmoscems lurj-yviTeli ferebis fonze da meore – realoba, romelic iq sufevs da uamravi mSvidobiani moqalaqis sicocxles iwiravs. omi aris SimSili, sikvdili, tkivili, Seuracxyofa, araadamianuroba. . . rogor SeiZleba, es vinmes moswondes? Sens Tvalwin vardeba bombebi, gengreva saxli, geRupeba uaxloesi adamianebi. .. Znelia, am tkivilis gaZleba.
– qalebi da bavSvebi ratom ar gamodian?
– ukrainis teritoriis datovebis ufleba ar aqvT kacebs, romlebic ibrZvian an SesaZloa CaerTon sabrZolo moqmedebebSi, colebi ki maT ar toveben. Tanac zogan iseTi viTarebaa, rom ver gamodian – ruseTis jars gadaketili aqvs qalaqebidan gasasvlelebi.
– Tqven ambobT, rom bevria omis winaaRmdegi, magram ukrainelebi sakmaod mxurvale, patriotul mowodebebs avrceleben.
– es axalgazrda Taobaa, romelic Tavisufal, demokratiul garemoSia aRzrdili da saamayodac ki miaCnia samSoblosTvis Tavis gawirva, omis mowinaaRmdegeebi ki sabWouri mentalitetis adamianebi arian. ufrosi Taoba ar Tvlis am oms gamosavlad da ar uWers mxars natos mier waqezebuli zelenskis maqsimalizms. ver getyviT statistikas, magram faqtia, rom mosaxleobis pozicia gaorebulia, ufro sworad – gasamebuli.
– mesame romelia?
– masSi moviazreb neitralurad ganwyobil adamianebs, oqros Sualeds, romlebic Tavs ikaveben sakuTari poziciis gamoxatvisgan. isini xan erTs usmenen, xan meores da arc erTs ar emxrobian, Tavis gadarCenis instiqts ufro emorCilebian, magram romelimes am samidan omi moswondes, ar mgonia. rac axla iq xdeba, sruli jojoxeTia, romelic putinis agresiam daatriala.
– axla ukve zelenski Tanaxmaa neitralitetze. Tavis droze rom daTanxmebuliyo, amdeni xalxi xom ar daiRupeboda?
– Cemi azriT, zelenskis Zalian cudi mrCevlebi hyavda da kidev ufro cudi – garemocva. masze bevri iyo damokidebuli, Tumca imdenad zedapirulad moiqca, ise iolad gawira sakuTari xalxi, romelic endo da prezidentad airCia, rom aRarc vici. ra vTqva. eriskacoba mxolod xmamaRali sityvebi xom ar aris? yvelam kargad viciT, vin aris putini, is kidev ufro ukeT viciT, ras warmoadgens ruseTi. zelenskim es Tu ar icoda, ratom ar auxsnes, ratom ar gaaCeres, aseT nabijs rom dgamda da mSvidobian cxovrebasTan damakavSirebel xidebs wvavda?
– ras fiqrobT, ra unda eqna?
– rasac vlaparakob, Cemi subieqtiuri azria, SeiZleba miRebul Tvalsazrisze cotaTi gansxvavebuli, rac ar niSnavs, rom ar veTanxmebi demokratiuli faseulobebis, saxelmwifos Tavisuflebis da suverenitetis dacvas, magram rodesac pasuxismgebloba gakisria eris da RvTis winaSe, yovelmxriv unda ecado, sakuTar xalxs sisxlisRvra aacilo. kargad viciT, ras niSnavs mokluli biWebi, aoxrebuli qalaqebi, dangreuli, miwasTan gasworebuli soflebi. . . diplomatia unda exmara ukrainis mTavrobas, saxalxo diplomatia. sxvadasxva doneze unda ewarmoebina molaparakebebi. albaT, Seityues, ase Cans garedan. axla prezidentia da rogor unda vaswavlo Wkua, magram aqedan am gaumarTlebel oms sxva axsnas ver mouZebni. zelenskim Tavad aRiara, rom natom imedi gaucrua. ramdenjer mimarTa evropas, CaeketaT ca, magram isini acxadeben, rom ar surT mesame msoflio omis wamowyeba da ver exmarebian ukrainas cocxali ZaliT da cis gadaketviT. mas rom ar hqonoda dasavleTis imedi, vfiqrob, ar wavidoda omze.
– eqspertebis didi nawili Tvlis, rom mimdinareobs geopolitikuri gadanawileba da natom ruseTis dasasusteblad ukraina gamoiyena.
– swored ase Cans, sxvisi xeliT nakverCxlis aReba moisurva amerikam da is veRar gansazRvra, rom evropas, mTel kacobriobas emuqreba am etapze realuri safrTxe. axla gavlenis sferoebis gadanawileba mimdinareobs da Cveni qveynebi meorexarisxovan rols asruleben Zlieri saxelmwifoebisTvis. imdeni sxvadasxva sakiTxia mosagvarebeli, rac SeuiaraRebeli TvaliT ar Cans da TiTqos am konfliqtTanac arafer kavSirSia, rom ver CamogiTvliT. axla msoflio politika sruliad sxva doneze wydeba, rac rigiTi adamianisTvis miuwvdomelia. amitom vambob, mTavaria, omi Sewydes da dasruldes es gauTavebeli tragedia, ukve erTi Tvis ganmavlobaSi rom trialebs. dRes sasworze devs principebi, Rirebulebebi, cxovrebis wesi, is, rasac vaSenebT bolo 30 welia da riTac izrdeboda Cveni ekonomika, Cveni qveyana, riTac viTardeboda Cveni sazogadoeba.
– saqarTvelos mTavrobis poziciaze ras ityviT?
– Zalian gonivrulad da mizanmimarTulad iqceva. yvela nabiji gaTvlili aqvs RaribaSvils da cdilobs, kacobriobisTvis am urTules periodSi sakuTar qveyanas aacilos omis mosalodneli safrTxe. imdenad saintereso, moqnil sagareo politikas atarebs, rom ganaiaraRa putinic ki da ruseTSi moqmed antiqarTul Zalebs ar misca saqarTvelos mimarT negatiuri damokidebulebis gamoxatvis arc erTi sababi.
– kargad iciT, rom swored amis gamo aumxedrda mas opozicia.
– ras ambobT, axla aumxedrda da manamde mxars uWerda? rac `qarTuli ocneba~ Camoyalibda, mas Semdeg ebrZvian `nacionalebi~ da arasodes hqondaT adekvaturi damokidebuleba. axlac erTaderTi mizani amoZravebT – isargeblon ukrainis omiT da saqarTvelo analogiur konfliqtSi CaiTrion. aqac erTaderTi mizani aqvT – Camoagdon arsebuli xelisufleba da Tavad moeqcnen saTaveSi, Semdeg ki, albaT, kvlav miscemen rusebs qarTul teritoriebs da daamkvidreben sakuTar mmarTvelobas. darwmunebuli var, kidev erTxel Tu movidnen mTavrobaSi, veRar movereviT, radgan srul diqtaturas daamyareben. marTla surT `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ wevrebs Cveni omSi CaTreva, magram ar gamouvaT. me nacionalebs kastas veZaxi. ase rogor sZulT adamianebi, qarTvelebi, mSvidoba da demokratia, ar vici. megona, Seicvlebodnen, Sexedulebebs gadaafasebdnen, magram araferi eSvelaT – faqtia!
– amboben, koaliciur mTavrobas Camoayalibeben. . .
– es mxolod axla amboben ase, rom patar-patara, maT satelitebad qceuli partiebi gaabiTuron da damatebiT xmebi aiRon, sakuTari xmardamWerebi moakldaT, ar momatebiaT. egonaT, CamobrZandeboda maTi yofili prezidenti saqarTveloSi da yvela TviTmmarTvelobis organo opoziciiT dakompleqtdeboda. araferi gamouvidaT, miSa cixeSi aRmoCnda, isini ki aqamde cdiloben sakuTari xazi gaataron, romelic aSkarad gadis saqarTvelos saerTaSoriso imijis Selaxvaze.
– maTi gancxadebiT, saqarTvelo mxars ar uWers ukrainas ruseTis winaaRmdeg brZolaSi.
– ratom?! humanitarul tvirTebs vagzavniT, Cveni meomrebi iRupebian ukrainis miwaze, ukrainis suverenitetisaTvis brZolaSi. saqarTvelo im rezoluciis iniciatoricaa, gaeroSi, 141-ma saxelmwifom rom miiRo ruseTis agresiis dasagmobad. Cveni qveyana Zalian mkafio gzavnilis Tanaavtoria, rom msoflios udidesi umravlesoba ar uWers mxars suverenul saxelmwifoSi aseT SeWras. aqve vamtkicebT, msoflios udidesi nawilisTvis miuRebelia mSvidobiani mosaxleobis samizned qceva, qalaqebis dabombva, ganadgureba da Zalis usafuZvlod gamoyeneba, anu yvelafers vakeTebT putinis agresiis SesaCereblad da saqarTvelos dasacavad. win urTulesi dReebi gvelis, aravin icis, ra moxdeba. mTavaria, rwmena ar davkargoT, erTad davdgeT omis dasrulebisa da msoflioSi mSvidobis SenarCunebisTvis.
