,,ტერიტორიები კი არა, საკუთარი მოძმე ერები გვყავს დასაბრუნებელი, იარაღი ვერ გადაწყვეტს კონტლიქტს”
ხატია იაშვილი 591 98 24 26 –
baTumis TviTmmarTvelobis Sualedur arCevnebze, radikaluri opoziciis araadekvatur braldebebsa da ukrainis daxmarebaze gvesaubreba aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputati daviT bacikaZe. is Tvlis, rom mosaxleobam swori gadawyvetileba miiRo, rodesac baTumisa da rusTavis olqebSi `qarTuli ocnebis~ kandidatebs dauWira mxari da amiT xelisuflebis mier gatarebuli sagareo Tu saSinao politika gaamarTla.
– gilocavT, batono daviT – Sualedur arCevnebSi Tqvenma kandidatma gaimarjva im olqSi, sadac Tavis droze opoziciis kandidats misces xma.
– Tavidanve darwmunebuli viyavi am gamarjvebaSi, iseve rogorc Cemi gundis yvela wevri, radgan vicodiT mosaxleobis ganwyoba.
– Tqven TvliT, rom baTumelTa umetesoba giWerT mxars?
– ar vamtkiceb, rom es aris absoluturi umravlesoba, radgan gvaqvs sxavadasxva xarvezi, magram imasac vityvi, rom ar gavurbivarT problemebze saubars – imaze, rasac vakeTebT, magram ar gamogvdis da arc imas viviwyebT, rac gasakeTebelia. sazogadoeba Cvens gakeTebulsac kargad xedavs da icis, ris miRwevas vcdilobT. sxvadasxva obieqturi garemoebis gamo, SesaZloa, ekonomika ver viTardeba saTanado tempebiT, magram mTavroba yvelafers akeTebs adamianebis dasaxmareblad im mwiri biujetiT, rac gagvaCnia. isic saTqmelia, rom aravis vCagravT, ar vaxorcielebT zewolas aravis politikur Tu sxvagvar Sexedulebebze, vicavT adamianis uflebebsa da Tavisuflebas.
– swored adamianis uflebebis SezRudvasa da sxva darRvevebze saubrobs opozicia.
– imaT imaze ilaparakon, rac 2012 wlamde xdeboda, axla sul sxva situaciaa – aravin zRudavs Tavisufal sityvas da demokratias. SesaZloa, yvelafers zedmiwevniT kargad ver vakeTebT, magram gulze xelebi rom ar gvaqvs dawyobili da vmoZraobT, esec Cans.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– nebismieri krizisis dros maqsimalurs vakeTebT mosaxleobisTvis, yovelTvis mobilizebulebi varT da arasodes vdgamT daufiqrebel, ambiciebiT nakarnaxev nabijebs, rac qveyanas daazaralebs. yvelaferi es erTad gaaanaliza Cvenma mosaxleobam am arCevnebzec, miT umetes, rom msoflios Tvalwin datrialda tragedia ukrainaSi, Cvens partnior qveyanaSi. isic dainaxes, saiTken eqaCeboda is partia, romlis kandidatic iyo ramaz jinWaraZis konkurenti da Zalian iolad, yovelgvari yoymanis gareSe gakeTda arCevani. am SemTxvevaSi omma katalizatoris roli Seasrula da mkveTrad gamoCnda, vin risi gamkeTebeli iyo.
– Tqven paralels avlebT qveyanaSi mimdinare Sida da gare politikur procesebs Soris?
– Cvens SemTxvevaSi Sida da gare politika imdenad gadaixlarTa erTmaneTSi, rom yvela aRmovCndiT omis dawyebis safrTxis winaSe. radikalurma opoziciam xelze daixvia Cveni partniori qveynis ubedureba da Sida moxmarebisTvis daiwyo am tragikuli movlenebis gamoyeneba. vxedavT, rogorc iqcevian, isic gvaxsovs, rogor iqceodnen 2008 wlis omSi, rogor miatoves Cveni jariskacebi rusis armiis pirispir, ase arian miCveulebi. Tavis droze, jer kidev 2003 wels, gamoacales skami SevardnaZis Zirmompal xelisuflebas, daixmares gamocdili politikosebi, moipoves xalxis ndoba, Semdeg ki gabatondnen, moiciles gverdiT myofi adamianebi da diqtatura daamyares. daiwyes biznesis dateroreba, udanaSaulo mosaxleobis cixeSi Casma da iq wamebis meqanizmebis SemuSaveba, raTa azrad aravis mosvloda, maTTvis winaaRmdegobis gaweva. xalxi amas xedavs, aravis araferi aviwydeba. SesaZloa, 18-19 wlis axalgazrdebs, romlebic im dros patarebi iyvnen, ar axsovdeT, ra saSineleba trialebda, magram xalxma xom icis, visTan aqvs saqme?! `nacionalebi~ mzad arian nangrevebad aqcion qveyana, oRondac xelisuflebaSi movidnen.
– Tqven TvliT, rom swored amitom gaimarjva `qarTulma ocnebam~ aseTi didi gansxvavebiT?
– diax, swored aman gamoiwvia Sualeduri arCevnebis mogeba rogorc baTumSi, ise rusTavSi. sxvaTa Soris, arc `nacionalebs~ da arc sxva partias rusTavSi kandidati ar hyolia, oTxi damoukidebeli piri iyrida kenWs, romlebmac xmebis saerTo raodenobis 10 procenti moagroves. cxadia, Cvens kandidats gamarjveba ar gauWirdeboda, magram sxva rames vambob – 35 aTasi xma miiRo `qarTulma ocnebam~! amdeni xma ar mougrovebia rusTavSi arc TviTmmarTvelobis da arc saparlamento arCevnebze.
– albaT SeSindnen. . .
– ra Tqma unda. mixvdnen, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ da masTan mitmasnili partiebi qveyanas omis ufskrulisken miaqanebdnen. `omis partias~ eZaxian ukve, Tumca rani arian da rogor ibrZvian, vnaxeT ukve da viRas aqvs maTi imedi. igive moxda baTumSic, 40-procentiani kleba hqondaT, 2000 xmaze naklebi miiRes, vidre wina turSi.
– amas xom mosyidvebiT da sajaro reestris mier Cawerili adamianebiT xsnian?
– isaa saqme, rom verc amiT xsnian, moigones aTasi sisulele, TiTqos viRacebi CavwereT, arada, sajaro reestrSi imaze gacilebiT naklebi Caewera, vidre analogiur periodSi, Tanac gonio-adliaSi, aeroportis midamoebSi korpusebi Sendeba. iciT, ra masStabebis mSeneblobebic mimdinareobs da Caewereba kaci sakuTar binaSi, aba, ras izams? Tanac aTas kacze saubrobdnen. rom gadavamowmeT, 400-ic ar aRmoCnda. arc gagvkvirvebia, radgan yvelaze didi matebaa am raionSi.
– isini amboben, `muyaos qalaqSi~ aSenebul korpusSi droze adre Caweres mobinadreebio.
– maTTvis aSenda es korpusi da ar unda Caweriliyvnen? kargi, davuSvaT, davujereT da marTali aRmoCndnen, isic vTqvaT, rom 400 ki ara, aTasi iyo, Tanac aTasive Cven gvaZlevda xmas (es rogor daadgines, ar vici), magram oTxi aTasi xmiT movugeT, ra gamodis, sami aTasi xma saidan movida? Tavadac kargad ician, ratomac waages, magram xmamaRla xom ver gaaJRereben. es arCevnebia maTi reitingis zusti maCvenebeli. yvelas amouvida yelSi maTi gamoxdomebi, araadekvaturi gancxadebebi, dausrulebeli boikotebi da protestebi. daiRala xalxi maTgan da maTi ambiciebisgan, moklevadiani populisturi gancxadebebisgan, yvelafers ebRauWebian, oRondac wyali aamRvrion da iq Tevzi daiWiron.
– batono daviT, Tevzis daWeris mcdelobas ar hgavs omSi CaTrevis aSkara mowodebebi.
– maT ar ainteresebT arc saqarTvelo da arc qarTvelebi. xelisuflebaSi mosvla da omis dawyebaa maTi mTavari mizani.
– dangreuli da miwasTan gasworebuli qveynis xelisuflebaSi mosvla raSi sWirdebaT?
– rogor Tu raSi?! moxvetavdnen yvelafers da gaiqceodnen, qveyanas ki rusis jars Seatovebdnen. gvaxsovs, 2008 wels ramdeni deputati, ministri Tu maRalCinosani gadaipara sazRvarze, danarCenebi ki idgnen sarfis sabaJosTan rigSi. ubedureba kidev raa, iciT? nikanor melia, romelic maTi generaluri mdivania da dRes partiis Tavmjdomaris movaleobas asrulebs, baTumSi iyo Camosuli da gareT saseirnodac ar gamosula. rom ar menaxa, ar davijerebdi. iyo aq da arCevnebzec aravis unaxavs misuli.
– `ocnebas~ rusul Zalad moiazreben, amis gamo zelenskim elCic ki gaiwvia.
– yvelam icis, es ambavi vin da ra mizniT Caawoda zelenskis. koba nayofia moikiTxon, romelsac ormagi moqalaqeoba aqvs da ruseTSi arsebuli biznesi sakuTar Svilze gadaaforma. axla aqeT biZina ivaniSvils eZaxian prorusul Zalas, romelsac erTi aqtivic ar aqvs iq, yvelaferi dasavleTSi gadmoitana. esec kargad icis sazogadoebam, aravisze uaresi eri ar varT da aravisze ukeTesi, magram politikurad azrovneba da Sedarebis gakeTeba SegviZlia. uZvelesi saukuneebidan movdivarT, uZvelesi civilizaciis matarebeli xalxi varT da kargad viciT, rodis raze unda gavakeToT aqcenti.
– mainc rom dagvartyas ruseTma?
– arc esaa gamoricxuli, iseTi daujerebeli ambebi xdeba samyaroSi, rom yvelaferi dasaSvebia. Tuki putinis avadmyof gonebaSi moixarSeba saqarTveloSi SemoWris gadawyvetileba, mzad unda davxvdeT. partnior qveynebTan erTad ganvixilavT kidec aseT variants, magram, `nacionalebisgan~ gansxvavebiT, afiSirebas ar vakeTebT, wivil-kivils ar vtexT, garegnul simSvides vinarCunebT, stabilurad mivdivarT evrokavSirisken da, vfiqrob, es yvelaferi male gamoiRebs Sedegs – gavxdebiT evropis ojaxis sruluflebiani wevri. iqneb ise male ar moxdes es, rogorc gvinda, muSaobaa saWiro, magram darwmunebuli var, dasaxul mizans aucileblad mivaRwevT.
– opozicia simxdaled miiCnevs mTavrobis sifrTxiles. . .
– es ar aris arc simxdale da arc sifrTxile, mTavrobis mier gadagmuli nabiji gonierebaze miuTiTebs. simxdale da SiSi swored Cvens oponentebSi vnaxeT, rodesac buCqeb-buCqeb gamorbodnen brZolis velidan da teritoriebi Seatoves ruseTs.
– oseTsa da afxazeTze ras gvetyviT?
– es Cveni tkivilia, magram am etapze verafers vizamT. `nacionalebs~ rom movusminoT, avtomatebi unda aviRoT xelSi da gavemarToT Cveni Zmebis dasaxocad. es aris Serigeba da SeerTeba? igive gavimeoroT, rac rusebma gaakeTes doneckis, luganskis da yirimis `gaTavisuflebisTvis~?!
– ra gamosavals xedavT?
– erTaderTi gza gvaqvs – mSvidobiani gziT davibrunoT Cveni moZme erebi. Zalian momwons kviprosis modeli, vgulisxmob saberZneTis da TurqeTis kvipross, romlis erTi mxare evrokavSiris wevria da sargeblobs yvela im komfortuli SeRavaTebiT, im TavisuflebiT da moqnili politikiT, rasac dasavleTi awarmoebs. namyofi var orive mxares da kargad vici, iq ra xdeba, umravlesobas unda erT saxelmwifod gaerTianeba da evropasTan SeerTeba. iq raRac barierebi arsebobs, romlebic amas aferxebs, magram darwmunebuli var, male kviprosi gaerTiandeba. dainaxes kviproselebma, rom demokratiasa da ganaTlebul, civilizebul samyaroSi cxovreba ukeTesia, vidre sibnelis, CamorCenilobisa da uvicobis zeimis Tanamonawileoba.
– imedi gaqvT, Tuki evrokavSiris wevri qveyana gavxdebiT, afxazebi da osebi CvenTan SemoerTebas moisurveben?
– ra Tqma unda, evropas airCevs yvela. afxazeTs axlac ar surs ruseTis SemadgenlobaSi Sesvla, radgan kargad xedavs, rac elis iq. isic faqtia, rom evropa-amerikis mier dawesebuli sanqciebi sabolood Tu ar daSlis, mTlianad moSlis ruseTis ekonomikas da am `respublikebisTvis~ ki ara, sakuTari mosaxleobisTvis veRar ivargebs. aqedan gamomdinare, rodesac arCevani eqnebaT osebs bnel, putinis ruseTsa da evropuli RirebulebebiT mcxovreb saqarTvelos Soris, Cvens sasargeblod gaakeTeben arCevans. erTxel da samudamod unda gavaTvicnobieroT, rom teritoriebi ki ara, sakuTari moZme erebi gvyavs dasabrunebeli. iaraRi ver gadawyvets konfliqts, mxolod da mxolod siyvaruliT, TanadgomiT da Tavisufali arCevanis SeTavazebiT dagvibrundebian osebic da afxazebic. es aris demokratiuli saxelmwifo politikis amosavali wertili da yvelaze Zlieri berketi. magaliTad mohyavT istoriuli faqtebi, amtkiceben, rom mxolod iaraRiT SevZlebT dakargulis dabrunebas, magram imas Tu uyureben, ras akeTebs iaraRi? miuRebelia, rac Tavis droze ruseTma Caidina – asi aTasobiT moqalaqe gamoyara afxazeTidan da samaCablodan. ramdeni daxoca da daasaxiCra? mas Semdeg welSic veRar gaimarTa es regionebi, dRemde ver aawyves normaluri cxovreba. es teritoriebi am xalxTan erTad unda davibrunoT, mxolod am SemTxvevaSi viqnebiT marTalni erisa da beris winaSe. Tanac, ra oms gaiZaxian, rodesac 2 milioniRa varT darCenili – am raodenobis armia hyavs ruseTs. aqve imasac vityvi, rom aravin eloda sabWoTa kavSiris daSlas, magram daingra, aseve daingreva ruseTis imperia da sul sxva realoba dagvidgeba. axla ukraina ibrZvis, Cven yovelmxriv vexmarebiT, vgulSematkivrobT, sakuTari mwiri biujetis miuxedavad, vagzavniT didi moculobis humanitarul tvirTs, vabinavebT ltolvilad qceul ukrainelebs. mixaria, rom mTeli baTumia CarTuli am procesSi – materialurad Tu moralurad dganan aq myofi ukrainelebis gverdiT. yovelTvis gamoirCeoda saqarTvelo stumarmaspinZlobiT da arc axla vuRalatebT tradiciebs – xelgaSlili SevxvdebiT, davapurebT da mzrunvelobas ar movaklebT gasaWirSi aRmoCenil adamianebs.
