,,უკრაინელი ერის ასეთმა ბრძოლამ მსოფლიოს მაგალითი აჩვენა და აღაფრთოვანა”
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ruseTis ukrainisadmi agresia msoflioSi gulgrils aravis tovebs. civilizebuli samyaro gmobs kremlis destruqciul qmedebebs am qveynis mimarT da, amave dros, SeZlebisdagvarad exmareba saxelmwifoebriobis SenarCunebaSi. mizezi ara marto samarTlianobis gancdaa, aramed geopolitikuri da geoekonomikuri faqtorebi, sxvagvarad rom vTqvaT, ukrainaze didad aris damokidebuli evropis da, miT umetes, postsabWoTa qveynebis momavali. ismis kiTxva – mimdinareobs Tu ara msoflio wesrigisTvis brZola, ra cxadyo am omma da ramdenad Tanmimdevrulia dasavleTi ruseTTan mimarTebiT? am da sxva mniSvnelovan sakiTxebze gvesaubreba aWaris savaWro-samrwvelo palatis mrCeveli diplomatiur sakiTxebSi, axalgazrda biznesmenTa asociaciis Tavmjdomare, baTumis saxelmwifo universitetis doqtoranti (lingvistika-diplomatiur diskursSi) laSa bolqvaZe, romelic amave universitetSi mowveulia iaponuri enis leqtorad.
– axali msoflio wesrigi dResdReisobiT yvelaze aqtualuri terminia. amdenad, sainteresoa, mimdinareobs Tu ara msoflios xelaxali gadanawileba? am mimarTebiT ruseTis agresia ra daskvnis safuZvels iZleva?
– msoflio wesrigis erTi polusidan meoreze gadasvlis erT-erTi Suamavali omia. amis naTeli magaliTia ruseTis moqmedeba ukrainaSi. yoveli omis Semdgom, sxvadasxva viTarebis safuZvelze, xdeba globaluri wesrigis damyareba, kerZod ki, mTavari birTvis ekonomikuri sistemis da normebis safuZvelze. es iwvevs ganaxlebas globaluri masStabiT, dawyebuli yoveldRiuri cxovrebis wesiT – socializaciis procesamde. ra Tqma unda, iseTi kompleqsuri movlena, rogoric globaluri msoflo wesrigia, calsaxad dadebiTi an uaryofiTi ver iqneba yvela qveynisa Tu adamianisaTvis. es wesrigi iZleva SesaZleblobebs imisaTvis, rom konkretuli saxelmwifoebi an adamianebi iyenebdnen mas sargeblisTvis an mavneblurad.
– amJamad dasavleTis da ruseTis dapirispirebis areali ukrainaa. ra mizani amoZravebT maT?
– ruseTis mizania sakuTari Zalebis demonstrireba da gavlenebis SenarCuneba, xolo dasavleTi ecdeba, maqsimalurad SezRudos da Seasustos ruseTis resursebi.
– Tveze metia, rac ukrainaSi omi mimdinareobs. ra cxadyo am omma, elodiT Tu ara ukrainuli jaris aseT brZolisunarianobas da dasavleTis Tanadgoma ukrainasadmi ramdenad mniSvnelovania rusuli agresiis SesaCereblad?
– procesebma cxadyo, rom aRniSnulma geopolitikurma sakiTxma ukve globalur masStabebs miaRwia. ara marto ukrainuli jaris, aramed mTeli ukraineli eris aseTma brZolam msoflios magaliTi aCvena da aRafrTovana. Sedegad, meti simpaTia, pativiscema, mxardaWeris survili gauCina msoflios. yvela qveyana, Taviseburad, maqsimums akeTebs ruseTis agresiis SesaCereblad. am mizniT, dasavleTma aucileblad unda gazardos saWiro berketebi, politikuri zemoqmedebis saSualebebi, aseve gaafarToos ekonomikuri sanqciebi.
– rogorc cnobilia, ukraina TiTqmis yvela frontze utevs ruseTs, magaliTad, poloneTisa da baltiispireTis qveynebTan erTad, ruseTis winaaRmdeg haagaSi sarCeli Seitana. buCas tragediam msoflio SeZra. . .
– mwuxarebas da did gulistkivils gamovxatav buCaSi momxdari tragediis gamo. SeuZlebelia, nanaxma videom, fotoebma adamiani srulad ar SeZras. buCas tragedia Seicavs genocidis aSkara niSnebs, rasac saerTaSoriso masStabiT aucileblad unda mohyves umkacresi reagireba.
– sisxlis samarTlis saerTaSoriso sasamarTlos prokurorma karim xanma, 2008 wlis omis saqmis farglebSi, 10 marts okupirebuli cxinvalis sami yofili maRalCinosnis dakavebis orderi gasca. rogor afasebT amas?
– haagis sisxlis samarTlis saerTaSoriso sasamarTlos mier miRebuli gadawyvetleba umniSvnelovanesi winsvla, gamarjvebaa. samwuxarod, didi dro dasWirda am gadawyvetilebis miRebas, Tumca sjobs gvian, vidre – arasdros. danaSaulis Camdenebi aucileblad unda daisajon. Zalian mniSvnelovania es saqarTvelosaTvis. vulocav Cvens xalxs, Cvens qveyanas.
– rakiRa 2008 wlis omi gavixseneT, minda gkiTxoT: maSin dasavleTi da nato ufro principuli rom yofiliyo ruseTis mimarT, ukrainis tragediis momswre viqnebodiT?
– 2008 wlis omi ar aRmoCnda seriozulad aRqmuli, gaanalizebuli samomavlo safrTxis da riskebis TvalsazrisiT, rac naTlad Cans natos generalur mdivan iens stoltenbergis axlaxan gaJRerebul gancxadebaSi: `vfiqrob, erT-erTi gakveTili, romelic ruseTis ukrainaSi SeWris Semdeg viswavleT, aris is, rom yvelam, visac sjera demokratiisa da kanonis uzenaesobis, unda uzrunvelyos mxardaWera iseTi axlo da Rirebuli partniorebis, rogoric saqarTveloa. umjobesia, maT adreve davexmaroT, vidre gvian~. gancxadebaSi igrZnoba sinanuli da amiT maT mier daSvebuli Secdomebi, romlebic aisaxa jer saqarTveloze, Semdeg ki ukrainaze. vfiqrob, es gancxadeba dagvianebulic ki aris, Tumca imeds vitoveb, rom samomavlo usafrTxoebis diskursSi iqneba sasargeblo da progresirebadi, rac Cvens qveynebs moutans mSvidobas, gaamyarebs Tavdacvis ideas da process.
– egreT wodebuli samxreT oseTis prezidentma bibilovma daaanonsa, rom uaxloes momavalSi Catardeba referendumi `samxreT oseTis~ ruseTTan SeerTebis Taobaze. . .
– yvelas kargad moexseneba, rom saqarTvelos teritoriebi okupirebulia da referendumebze saubari zedmetia. maT kargad ician, rom araRiarebuli samxreT oseTis regioni saqarTvelos Semadgeneli nawilia da ar aqvT ufleba, aseTi Seusabamo gadawyvetilebebi miiRon, rasac amyarebs saerTaSoriso sazogadoebis uryevi mxardaWera saqarTvelos teritoriuli mTlianobisadmi. maTgan yvelaferia mosalodneli, ecdebian saqarTvelo dayon, Tumca msoflio amas ar aRiarebs. kargad aqvT gaazrebuli da ician, Tu ra faqtorebis winaSe aRmoCndebian da vimedovneb, am nabijs ar gadadgamen.
– kvlav ukrainas davubrundeT. dawesebuli sanqciebi ruseTis mimarT marTlac mravlismTqmelia, Tumca, jerjerobiT, kremli ukan ar ixevs. am mxriv dasavleTs TadarigSi ra berketebi rCeba?
– dasavleTis mier dawesebuli sanqciebi grZelvadian perspeqtivaSi ruseTis ekonomikisTvis rTuli procesebis momtania, rac dReis mdgomareobiTac naTlad Cans. aRniSnuli sanqciebi jerjerobiT ver aCerebs saomar moqmedebebs ukrainaSi. rTuli saTqmelia, Secvlis Tu ara kremli politikas dawesebuli SezRudvebidan gamomdinare. sanqciebis srulad amoqmedebis SemTxvevaSi, ruseTs gauWirdeba saerTaSoriso masStabiT alternatiuli gzebis monaxva, Sesabamisad, adre Tu gvian, mouwevs daTmobebze wasvla.
– opozicia xelisuflebas ukrainis arasaTanado mxardaWeraSi adanaSaulebs, mmarTveli partia ki opoziciis destruqciulobaze saubrobs. . .
– msgavsad Seqspiris gamonaTqvamisa: `araferia imaze gavrcelebuli, rogorc survili, rom gamorCeuli iyo~.
– msoflio movlenebis fonze, rogor gesaxebaT aSS-ruseTis samomavlo urTierTobebi, miT ufro, rom baidenma putins mkvleli uwoda.
– diplomatiuri urTierTobebi ruseTsa da aSS-s Soris CixSia Sesuli. rTulad prognozirebadia, ra procesebi warimarTeba momavalSi, Tumca mjera, rom gamoinaxeba resursebi mSvidobis damyarebisa da saerTaSoriso stabilurobisaTvis.
– natos yofilma sardalma amas winaT ganacxada, rom ukrainis da saqarTvelos SeiaraRebuli Zalebi akmayofileben aRniSnuli aliansis standartebs. bolos da bolos, rodis gaiReba CvenTvis natos kari?
– Cven natos wevrobas ar unda velodoT uaxloes wlebSi da amis didi imedi ar unda gvqondes. ar unda SeviqmnaT iluzia da movityuoT Tavi, vinaidan am process mosdevs Zalian didi da rTuli gza, romelic gasavleli aqvs Cvens qveyanas. varT gzaSi da am gzas warmatebiT mivyvebiT. saqarTvelos mier gadadgmuli TiToeuli nabiji aris nayofieri, rac mniSvnelovania, rom finiSamde droulad, uproblemod, winaaRmdegobis gareSe da mSvidobianad mivideT. Cveni aliansSi xilva gardauvalia da es aucileblad moxdeba. natos rigis ministerialze saqarTvelosa da ukrainis sagareo saqmeTa ministrebis miwveva da maTTan erTad Crdiloatlantikuri sabWos sxdomis farglebSi usafrTxoebis mTavar gamowvevebze saubari mianiSnebs, rom aliansisaTvis orive saxelmwifo Rirebuli partnioria.
– dRevandel ukrainasa da, zogadad, msoflioSi arsebuli rTuli viTarebidan gamomdinare, rogoria saqarTvelos momavali?
– saqarTvelo mZime gansacdelSi imyofeba, vinaidan qveynis gareT da gansakuTrebiT SigniT Zalian bevri mteri hyavs, rac zegavlenas axdens mis sagareo da saSinao politikur, diplomatiur, ekonomikur urTierTobebze, amitom Zalze mniSvnelovania, sifrTxiliT, gare da Sida faqtorebze meti dakvirvebiT, swori diplomatiuri svlebiT gagrZeldes saerTaSoriso urTierTobebi.