,,ქართული ოცნების” ,,ბოსები” ვერ გაგვიჩენენ რომელიმე პოლიტიკურ ძალასთან თანამშრომლობის კომპლექსს”
ხატია იაშვილი 591 98 24 26 –
`ar vapirebT, `qarTuli ocnebisTvis~ an `nacionaluri moZraobisTvis~ viyoT e.w. maSveli rgoli. Cveni mizania dambalanseblis roli SevasruloT,~ – ambobs baTumis sakrebulos deputati, partiis – `saqarTvelosTvis~ wevri akaki gvianiZe
Tu rogor afasebs sakrebuloSi Seqmnil rTul viTarebas, ras apirebs Tavad da ra perspeqtivebs xedavs gaxarias partiaSi, amas Cveni interviudan gaigebT.
– batono akaki, 12 aprils CaniSnul baTumis sakrebulos sxdomas ra mizeziT gamoucxadeT protesti opoziciurma flangma?
– sxva opoziciuri partiebis warmomadgenlebis saxeliT ver visaubreb, radgan pirvelebma gavaJRereT, rom ar vapirebdiT daswrebas, radgan ar gamarTula winaswari konsultaciebi, amavdroulad, Tavad sxdoma procedurebis darRvevis gamo, vadebSi ar iyo sworad gawerili. aqve vityvi sxva municipalitetebSi mimdinare procesebzec, ramac iqonia piradad Cvens partiaze zegavlena. marTalia, rogorc baTumis sakrebulos wevrs, sakuTari qalaqis mimarT maqvs pasuxismgebloba aRebuli, magram Cemi partia, saqarTvelos farglebSi funqcionirebs da Sesabamisad, sxva regionebzec unda vifiqroT. walenjixaSi uaRresad cudi faqti dafiqsirda, gela abulaZe, kaci, romelic mTel municipalitets Zalian uyvars da romelmac orjer meti xmiT mougo oponents, daakaves da absurdul saqmeze misces sisxlis samarTlis pasuxisgebaSi, 80 wlis dedasTan erTad.
– Tuki daaSava, saqme ar unda aReZraT?
– imdenad SeTiTxnili braldebaa, rom gare TvaliTac kargad Cans, TeTri ZafiT romaa es saqme Sekerili. erTaderTi mizezi, ris gamoc sinamdvileSi daakaves, iyo walenjixis sakrebuloSi Zalauflebis xelSi Cagdeba. baTumis sakrebuloSic sxvadasxva maqinacias mimarTes. Sualedur arCevnebamde Cven araerTxel moviwvieT sxdoma, romelzec ar cxaddebodnen mmarTveli partiis wevrebi da boikotis reJimSi iyvnen mTeli oTxi Tvis ganmavlobaSi. am sakiTxebis erTobliobam ar momca imis moraluri ufleba, sakrebulos sxdomas winapirobebis gareSe davswrebodi. ar vici, apirebs `qarTuli ocneba~ realur TanamSromlobas, Tu isev sakuTar, viwro partiuli interesebis gatarebas daiwyebs.
– partia `saqarTvelosTvis~ sami wevriT iyo sakrebuloSi warmodgenili, erT-erTi, damoukidebeli wevri gaxda. rogor fiqrobT, is axla vis mxares daikavebs?
– araviTari `damoukidebeli wevri~ ar arsebobs, simarTles Tvali unda gavusworoT. es subieqti teleeTeriT adasturebs, rom mmarTveli partiis warmomadgenelia da mxars uWers `qarTuli ocnebis~ kandidat ramaz jinWaraZes sakrebulos Tavmjdomaris postze. Sesabamisad, arc sakuTari Tavi unda movityuoT da arc mosaxleoba SeviyvanoT SecdomaSi.
– rodemde unda gagrZeldes qalaqis boikotireba?
– Cven ar vimyofebiT boikotis reJimSi, `qarTul ocnebas~ hqonda saSualeba, Caetarebina sxdoma ise, rogorc es gavakeTeT senakSi. realurad krizisi daiwyo mas Semdeg, rac `qarTulma ocnebam~ gadawyvita boikotis reJimSi gadasvla. Teoriulad, es procesi SeiZleba gagrZeldes 3 ivnisamde. swored am dRes gadis
6-Tviani vada, rac sakrebulo ar Sekrebila. amis Semdeg, kanoniT es sakrebulo unda daiSalos, Semodis pirdapiri saxelmwifo mmarTveloba da qalaqis meri da qveynis centraluri mTavroba miiReben im gadawyvetilebebs, rac aucilebeli iqneba qalaqis funqcionirebisTvis. Semdeg ki, oqtomberSi, dainiSneba riggareSe arCevnebi.
– ramdenad gaZlevT Tqven xels msgavsi scenari?
– Cven ar varT riggareSe arCevnebiT dainteresebuli, piriqiT, vcdilobT meore mxaresTan komunikacias, magram rodesac ar gvTanxmdebian arc konsultaciebze, arc winaswari SeTanxmebebis gaformebaze da mxolod sakuTari, viwropartiuli interesebiT moqmedeben, maTi es pozicia absoluturad miuRebelia. Cven vasrulebT baTumelTa SekveTas, romelmac opozicias mianiWa prioriteti. amitom verafriT davuSvebT, `qarTulma ocnebam~ isev moaxdinos xelisuflebis uzurpireba.
– isic faqtia, rom am etapze `ocnebam~ moipova umravlesoba, Sualedur arCevnebSi didi gansxvavebiT rom mougo enm-is kandidats.
– ra xerxebiTac moipoves es umravlesoba, viciT, magram axla is unda vicodeT, rom borotad ar gamoiyeneben am Zalauflebas. amisTvis gvWirdeba is meqanizmebi, romlis meSveobiTac baTumis sakrebuloSi SevZlebT procesebis demokratiulad marTvas. yvelafer amas gansakuTrebuli datvirTva eZleva, verokavSiris kiTxvars Tu gavixsenebT. mis Sevsebas vapirebT da paralelurad, aseTi arademokratiuli procesebis monawile vxdebiT. ucnaurad xom ar geCvenebaT yvelaferi es? Cven araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar davTanxmdebiT notariusis rols da ver mivcemT legitimacias process, romelic CanasaxSive ara mxolod usamarTlo, aramed – ukanonoa, radgan ukanonod miiRes is mandati, romelic umravlesobisTvis dasWirdaT.
– raRac etapze, partia `saqarTvelosTvis~ pasiuri gaxda, `gaCerda~. bevrma isic Tqva, daiSlebao. . .
– arc gavCerebulvarT da arc gavCumebulvarT. mesmis, rom Cveni lideria partiis ganmsazRvreli saxe da giorgi gaxarias sainformacio velidan gauCinareba aRiqmeboda partiis saqmianobis SeCerebad, magram ar SevCerebulvarT, piriqiT, Cveni liderebi yJveldRiur reJimSi xvdebodnen da esaubrebodnen moqalaqeebs rogorc piradad, ise mediis saSualebiT. rac Seexeba baton giorgis, igi dakavebuli iyo Sidapartiuli saqmianobiT da misi gaZlierebiT, axla isev gamoCnda teleekranebze da aqtiurad afiqsirebs sakuTar pozicias yvela mniSvnelovan sakiTxze.
– sakrebulos davubrundeT, ras apirebT uaxloes momavalSi?
– erTi ram cxadia, pasuxismgebeli varT municipalitetis, zogadad, qveynis winaSe da Cven mier miRebuli yvela gadawyvetileba unda emsaxurebodes mosaxleobis interesebs. ar gvaqvs am gzidan gadaxvevis da im dapirebebis daviwyebis ufleba, rac xalxs winasaarCevnod miveciT. Cveni mTavari mesiji ki iyo: SevaCeroT `qarTuli ocnebac~ da `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobac~, anu wina da amJamindeli xelisuflebebi, romlebic avtoritarizmisken arian midrekili da yvelaferze wavlen sruli Zalauflebis mosapoveblad.
– isini xom dapirispirebulebi arian?
– Tqven warmoidgineT, saerTo saqmes akeTeben da erTmaneTs aZliereben, rac dadasturda saakaSvilis saqarTveloSi CamosvliT. miSam polarizacia kidev ufro gaamZafra, rac gavSifreT, rogorc amomrCevlis winaaRmdeg mimarTuli specoperacia. SeuZlebelia, romelime partia mogvwondes, radgan gaWrili vaSliviT gvanan erTmaneTs. dakavebuli arian mxolod Zalauflebis mopoveba-SenarCunebiT da revanSiT. aqedan gamomdinare, vercerT maTgans ver SevuqmniT sistemur koalicias, mxolod konkretuli sakiTxebis garSemo TanamSromlobaze varT Tanaxma, romelsac gadavwyvetT mosaxleobis neba-survilis gaTvaliswinebiT. anu Cven am ori maxinji partiuli warmonaqmnis sastiki mowinaaRmdegeebi varT da ar davuSvebT arc erT maTganTan mWidro kavSirs.
– principSi, axla enm-is momxre gamodixarT.
– yvela im oTx municipalitetSi, sadac Cveni partiis warmomadgenlebi airCies sakrebulos Tavmjdomareebad, winaswari SeTanxmeba ar yofila, ubralod `nacionalebs~ ar awyobdaT vadamdeli arCevnebis daniSvna da amitom dauWires mxari Cvens kandidats. Cven mzad viyaviT, rom `qarTuli ocnebis~ wevrebi agverCia sxvadasxva Tanamdebobaze, Tumca isini ar gamocxaddnen da Sesabamisad, darCenili wevrebiT dakompleqtda sakrebulo.
– amiT imis Tqma gindaT, rom `oqros Sualedi~ gaqvT da SegiZliaT pirobebi ukarnaxoT orive mxares?
– diax, am SemTxvevaSi ara – raodenoba, aramed principia gadamwyveti. strategiul reJimSi yofnam mogvca prioriteti. enm iZulebuli gaxda, CvenTvis daeWira mxari. Sesabamisad, vatarebT kidec Cvens xazs. magaliTad, israelSi, 120 deputatisgan Semdgar parlamentSi, premieri gaxda im partiis wevri, romelic maT sakanonmdeblo organoSi 7 wevriT iyo warmodgenili. am SemTxvevaSic, mTavari iyo, ra xazs da rogori principebiT atarebs esa Tu is partia.
– Tqven TvliT, rom Tqveni partiis wevri unda gavides Tavmjdomaris postze?
– Tu am analogiT isargebleben da gagvikeTeben msgavs SemoTavazebas, madlobeli davrCebiT, Tumca aqve imasac davamateb, rom arc erTxel ar gadagvixvevia im principebisa da gacxadebuli dRis wesrigisTvis, romelsac mivyvebiT arCevnebis dRidan. es yvelaferi gvaZlevs imis saSualebas, sakuTari uryevi neba gavataroT. rac Seexeba Tavmjdomareobas, baTumSi es SeuZlebelia, magram im municipalitetebSi, romlis sakrebuloebs Cveni partiis wevrebi xelmZRvaneloben, sruli demokratiaa. Tavmjdomareebi araTu Seekvrnen enm-s, romlis mxardaWeriTac miiRes es posti, aramed mZafr diskusiebSic ki Sedian maTTan da iWeren im mxares, romlis iniciativac sasargeblo iqneba mosaxleobisTvis. Cven mxars vuWerT im partias, romelic xalxisTvis sasikeTo winadadebas wamoayenebs da veravin, gansakuTrebiT, `qarTuli ocnebis~ `bosebi~ ver gagviCenen romelime politikur ZalasTan TanamSromlobis kompleqss.
– Tqveni partiidan sakmaod bevri wevri gavida, riTi axsniT kadrebis gadinebis process?
– Cvens qveyanaSi gardamavali demokratiis procesebi mimdinareobs. mas axasiaTebs naxevrad avtoritaruli mTavrobebi, romlebic yvelafris fasad cdiloben Zalauflebis SenarCunebas, rac dagvianonses kidec. gaxsovT, albaT, irakli kobaxiZis gancxadeba Cvens partiaSi e.w. burWulaZizaciis procesis dawyebasTan dakavSirebiT. nagulisxmebia paata burWulaZis mier partiis Camoyalibeba, romelic Tavadve datova, iseT dReSi Caagdo uSiSroebis samsaxurma. Tuki is politikuri gaerTianeba ufro komikuri iyo da rogorc daiwyo, ise daasrula, Cvens SemTxvevaSi, gacilebiT mZime berketebi gamoiyenes. saarCevno siebis bolos, simbolurad Casmuli adamianebic ki aiZules, partiidan gasuliyvnen. yofili wevrebi modiodnen CvenTan, gvebodiSebodnen, ambobdnen, rom col-Svilic ki dauSines. es xalxi oficialurad ki gavida, magram bolomde darCa Cven gverdiT, saarCevno kampaniaSi. gvesmis, rom Zalauflebis SesanarCuneblad, politikuri miznebisTvis saxelmwifo uSiSroebis sistemas iyeneben, farulad usmenen politikosebs, cdiloben adamianebis gadabirebas, risTvisac iyeneben maT sust mxareebs. aqedan gamomdinare, arc erT am adamianze ar gavnawyenebulvarT, sakuTar Tavze mogvdis brazi, rom ar gveyo maT dasacavad Zala. aqve imasac vityvi, rom aseTebi erTeulia, 115 arCeuli deputatidan, mxolod samis gadabireba SeZles. imasac vityvi, rom male dadgeba dro, rodesac veravin moaxerxebs politikaSi CarTul adamians sakuTari sindisis da nebis sawinaaRmdegod gadaadgmevinos nabiji. yvelas gmirobas ver moTxov, es mec kargad maqvs Segnebuli da arc erT adamians ar gavkicxav arasodes.
– Tqveni partiidan wasuli adamianebi acxadebdnen, rom liderebi maTTan konsultaciebis gareSe awarmoebdnen garigebebs sakrebuloSi.
– araviTari diskomunikaciis problema partiaSi ar yofila. am xmamaRali sityvebis avtorTa karieruli zrda-ganviTarebis ambebi moikiTxeT da pasuxsac miiRebT.
– ratom airCieT gaxarias partia?
– jer kidev studentobidan aqtiurad viyavi CarTuli politikur procesebSi. `qarTuli ocnebis~ damfuZnebelic ki gaxldiT am qalaqSi. momwonda idea: saxelmwifos centrSi adamiani unda idges da adamianze orientirebuli unda iyos saxelmwifo. cudi emociebi makavSirebda `nacionalur moZraobasTan~, is darbevebi, dapatimrebebi, mkvlelobebi, rac maSin xdeboda, miuRebeli iyo CemTvis da swored `qarTuli ocneba~ miviCnie mxsnelad. misi pirveli nabijebi iZleoda am optimizmis safuZvels, Tumca jamSi, `ocnebam~ uRalata 2012 wlis ideas, ris gamoc davtove kidec. gaxaria iyo erTaderTi adamiani, romelic imedTan asocirdeboda. gagaxsenebT 2020 wlis Tebervals – pandemiis sawyisi etapi, SiSi, gaurkvevloba, panika. . . Cemi qveyana siamayis safuZvels arasodes maZlevda, an valebi hqonda, an omebi – wagebuli an sadRac humanitarul daxmarebas iTxovda. mxolod pandemiis sawyis etapze aRmovaCine, rom Cems cxovrebaSi pirvelad, gamiCnda saxelmwifos imedi, vigrZeni, rom saxelmwifo zrunavda Cemze da es simSvidis safuZvels maZlevda. evropaSi erT-erTi bolo viyaviT gardacvlil adamianTa raodenobiT da virusis gavrcelebis yvelaze dabali maCvenebelic gvqonda. gaxaria sistemurad uyurebs problemebs, erTjerad nabijebs ar dgams. magaliTad, is ar ebrZvis korufciis calkeul gamovlinebas, is cdilobda korufciis aRmosafxvrelad sistemuri brZolis meTodis Semotanas, mTlianad korufciis riskebisgan dasazRvevad da gasanadgureblad. misma qarizmamac iTamaSa roli da masSi davinaxe mesame Zala. gaxarias ZaluZs, gaxdes axali politikuri lideri axal erovnul moZraobaSi, romelic daamarcxebs im breJneviseul uZraobis xanas, romelic `ocnebam~ daamkvidra Cvens qveyanaSi.

