,,ბუჩაში ყოფნისას დავრწმუნდი, რომ რუსეთს ძალიან გაუჭირდება ამ ერის დაჩოქება”
ხატია იშვილი 27 48 93 –
`rusma samxedroebma mokles yoveli mexuTe mcxovrebi, romelic okupirebul buCaSi darCa~ – am frazam dazafra msoflio, istoriaSi CarCenili sisastikis Tanamedrove variaciebi rTuli gadasaxarSi gaxda 21-e saukuneSi da mTeli gonieri kacobrioba gaerTianda barbarosebad qceuli rusi jariskacebis winaaRmdeg. buCas tragediam SeaZrwuna civilizebuli samyaro da yvela qveynidan daiZra delegaciebi, raTa sakuTari TvaliT exilaT rusi samxedroebis mier kacobriobis winaaRmdeg Cadenili danaSauli. delegacia Cavida aWaridanac – humanitarul tvirTs gahyva, romelic baTumelebma Seagroves ukrainelTa dasaxmareblad.
gTavazobT intervius aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputatTan levan anTaZesTan, romelic omis dawyebis pirvelive dReebidan, megobrebTan erTad, saTaveSi Caudga baTumSi humanitaruli tvirTis Segrovebis da ukrainel ltolvilTa daxmarebis centrs. is axlaxan Camovida ukrainidan. misi TqmiT, yvelaze metad SeZrwunda yofili rusuli Stabis ukan aRmarTul kedelze Semxmari sisxliT, romelic aq daxvretil ukrainelebs ekuTvnodaT.
– batono levan, rodis waxvediT ukrainaSi da vin gaxldaT?
– wavediT 14 aprils, umaRlesi sabWos deputatebi: elguja bagrationi, giorgi kirTaZe, gia abulaZe da me. gavyeviT satvirTo manqanas, e.w. furas, romelic datvirTuli iyo ukrainis daxmarebis centrSi motanili, baTumelebis SemowirulobebiT. humanitaruli daxmarebis es nawili baTumTan damegobrebul qalaq ternopolSi waviReT. Tavadac gavemgzavreT, radgan gadavwyviteT, erTia, rodesac aqedan, mSvidobiani adgilidan exmarebi da meore – Cadixar, da piradad ucxadeb Tanadgomas. ternopoli – ukrainis dasavleTiT mdebare, sididiT meoTxe qalaqia, mdinare seretze, istoriuli regionis galiciis, axla – ternopolis olqis politikur-administraciuli, ekonomikuri da kulturuli centri, iq sadac ikveTeba sarkinigzo da saavtomobilo magistralebi. kievidan daSorebulia TiTqmis 500 kilometriT.
– oficialuri Sexvedrebi Tu gqondaT. . .
– iq yvelas oficialurad xvdebian, radgan did pativiscemad da Tanadgomad miaCniaT nebismieris Casvla, miT umetes, rodesac damegobrebuli kuTxis warmomadgeneli xar. Segvxvda ternopolis meri sergei nadali, romelic ukve 10 welia marTavs qalaqs da sakrebulos Tavmjdomare. pirvel rigSi, CavabareT humanitaruli tvirTi – medikamentebi, produqtebi, tansacmeli da sxva saWiro nivTebi. madloba gadagvixades yvelafrisTvis, magram aRniSnes, rom Cveni viziti gacilebiT metis mTqmeli iyo maTTvis da aseT mZime wuTebSi Cveni iq yofniT gamowveul emociebs, veranairi madlierebiT ver gadmoscemen.
– humanitaruli tvirTi konkretulad vin Seagrova? Tqven mier CamoTvlili deputatebi `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ warmomadgenlebi arian.
– Zalian gTxovT politikuri poziciis dafiqsirebas moeridoT. rogorc ukve aRvniSne, humanitaruli tvirTi Seagroves baTumelebma da yovelgvari partiuli kuTvnilebis Tu simpaTia-antipaTiis gareSe moitanes. swored es procesi SeiZleba CavTvaloT eris erTad dgomis safuZvlad. ase rom, madloba SemouTvales mTel baTums, aWaras da qarTvels xalxs. yvelaze metad SemZra am omiT gaubedurebuli xalxis Rimilma da keTilma survilebma, romliTac gvxvdebodnen quCebSi da gvacilebdnen.
davaTvaliereT dangreuli qalaqebi, gzebi. viyaviT hospitalSi da movinaxuleT daWrili meomrebi `azovis batalionidan~. CavediT kievSi, sadac SevxvdiT baTumis municipalitetis sakrebulos wevrs irakli zoiZes, romelic omis dawyebis pirvelive dReebidan gaemgzavra ukrainaSi da dRemde iq ibrZvis. vnaxeT koba xabazi, gia baramiZe, xulos mkvidri avTo surmaniZe, romelic aseve, aqtiurad iyo CarTuli `Tavisuflebis kvartalSi~. bevr sxva qarTvel mebrZolsac SevxvdiT. isini didi avtoritetiT sargebloben ukrainelebSi, siamayiT vambob, rom maT gamorCeulad scemen pativs. minda Tqveni gazeTiT Cvens am mamac Tanamoqalaqeebs madloba gadavuxado da ukve baTumidan movikiTxo.
– buCaSic iyaviT?
– diax, viyaviT da SegvZra iqaurobam. aSkarad davinaxeT ruseTis imperiis maxinji, sisxliani saxe. aq yovel mexuTes cxrilavdnen, rac buCaSi gardacvlilTa cxedrebis eqshumaciis Sedegad gaxda cnobili. mogexsenebaT, amis Sesaxeb informacias buCas meri anatoli fedoruki avrcelebs. vnaxeT dangreuli, miwasTan gasworebuli qalaqi, rusebis Stabi, saidanac aSkarad gaiqcnen da ara – gavidnen rusebi, rogorc Tavad acxadebdnen. ise iyo iqauroba areul-dareuli, saidumlo dokumentacia dayrili, tansacmeli da nivTebi mimobneuli, cxadad Canda, rom ukanmouxedavad garbodnen, Torem ras daTmobdnen iqaurobas. sakuTari danaSaulis kvalis miCqmalvac ver moaxerxes, ise dayrili datoves quCebSi xel-fexSekruli, daxvretili mSvidobiani moqalaqeebi. gansakuTrebiT Semzara am Stabis ukana ezoSi, kedelze Semxmarma sisxlma, sadac Turme xvretdnen udanaSaulo adamianebs. imdenad mZime suraTi iyo, xmis amoRebac ver movaxerxeT, aseT sisastikesTan pirispir darCena ar yofila ioli. erTia, rodesac fotoebs uyureb da sul sxvaa, faqtebis naxva. verc ki gadmogcemT, ra ganwyoba dagveufla yvelas. garda amisa, minda aRvniSno, rom bolomde ar mjeroda, rodesac gadmoscemdnen rusuli teqnikis ganadgurebis cifrebs. aq ki sakuTari TvaliT vnaxeT jarTad qceuli rusuli mZime teqnikis gorebi – ar vaWarbeb, Zalian didi raodenoba iyo. sxva uamravi ram davafiqsireT, magram yvelafers erTad ver gadmogcemT, radgan absoluturad sxvagvaria iq yvela sityva, moqmedeba, yofa. . .
– buCaSi vis SexvdiT?
– SevxvdiT buCas mers da sakrebulos Tavmjdomares, iqac didi madloba gadagvixades, Tumca isic gviTxres, rom produqtebis deficits ar ganicdian, mxolod medikamentebi uWirT. rogorc ki CamovediT, gadavagzavneT is wamlebi, rac gvTxoves. gzad uamravi daxvretili samoqalaqo piris manqanebi vnaxeT, romlebic albaT, trasaze xvdebodnen tankebs. bevri maTgani gadavlili iyo `beteerebiT~, arc moridebian. axlaxan aRmoaCines 900 adamianze gaTxrili saflavi. buCas meris anatoli fedorukis informaciiT, gansakuTrebiT mZime danaSaulebi samoqalaqo pirebis winaaRmdeg dafiqsirda buCasa da vorzelSi – jgufuri gaupatiureba da bavSvTa mkvleloba. marTlac saSinelebebi moxda da xdeba ukrainaSi, daixoca uamravi adamiani, dasaxiCrebulia kidev ufro meti, magram yvelaze mTavari da xazgasasmelia is, rac ki ar waarTva, SesZina omma am medgar xalxs – erTianoba da vaJkacuri, gautexeli suli, simamace da optimizmi. manamde mravalpolusiani ukraina gaerTianda erT xorc da erT sul, aRar arCeven arc religias, arc enas, arc warmomavlobas, yvela erTad ibrZvis rusi okupantebis winaaRmdeg da darwmunebuli arian gamarjvebaSi. aRar aris is mravalwaxnagovani ukraina, rac iyo, axla Sekruli, gaerTianebuli eri Camoyalibda da win aRudga ruseTis sisxlian reJims. yvelaferi es rom vnaxe da aRviqvi, buCaSi yofnisas davrwmundi, rom ruseTs Zalian gauWirdeba am eris daCoqeba, miT umetes, mas mTeli civilizebuli msoflio, gonieri kacobrioba uWers mxars.
– yvelaze metad ram miipyro Tqveni yuradReba?
– 8 saaTze CavediT da ukve moxaliseebi Sekrebilni iyvnen, yvela muSaobda, aravin rCeboda usaqmod. Tqven warmoidgineT, ramdenime quCa ukve mwyobrSi Caayenes, gatanili iyo jarTad qceuli teqnika Tu sxva nagavi, anu ibrZvian sasaxelod da Sromoben – dauzareblad. ukrainelebis ganwyoba albaT, is fenomenia, ramac Cemze yvelaze didi STabeWdileba moaxdina.
– Tu bombavdnen qalaqs, sadac iyaviT?
– oTxi Rame davrCiT iq da Ramis ganmavlobaSi ramdenjerme CairTo gangaSis zari, magram xalxic SeeCvia da Cvenc aRar vaqcevdiT did yuradRebas. yvela STabeWdileba axla mniSvnelovnad mimaCnia, yvela emocia – yuradRebis da damaxsovrebis Rirsad. amitom, kidev erTxel minda madloba gadavuxado Cems baTumelebs, rom 50-60 tonamde tvirTi Sekribes da ar darCnen ganze maSin, rodesac megobar qveyanaSi usamarTlo, wesebis gareSe omi mimdinareobs.
– ramdeni ukrainelia gasuli qveynidan?
– zusti cifri aravin icis, radgan warmoudgenelia amis daTvla. mxolod is SemiZlia giTxraT, rom aq Semosul ltolvilTa dabinavebis seriozuli problema Seiqmna. CvenTan erTad am sakiTxze turizmis departamentic muSaobda, magram, rogorc vici, maT amoewuraT finansuri SesaZlebloba da albaT aucilebeli gaxdeba saqmeSi aWaris mTavrobis CarTva. 1500-mde adamiani ganvasaxleT Cven – 90% ufasod. baTumelebi, qobuleTelebi da xelvaCaurelebi uTmoben oTaxebs. rac Seexeba im xalxs, sastumroebSi rom arian, vinaidan turizmis departaments amoewura Tanxa, albaT, gamouSveben. aqedan gamomdinare, vacxadeb, rom saWiroa samTavrobo daxmareba.
– ukrainidan wamosulebi ar iReben aranair daxmarebas?
– ara, Tu valantiorebis (moxaliseebis) daxmarebas ar CavTvliT. saxelmwifosgan ras unda dalodebodnen, gamoeqcnen oms da sikvdils, samSvidobos gamoiyvanes bavSvebi.
– ukrainis mTavroba mamakacebis sisxlis samarTlebriv devnas iwyebs. am xalxs ra eSveleba?
– es ar vici, albaT gamoiZebneba raRac gza, magram axla vdgavarT faqtis winaSe, rom konkretulad aWaraSi myof ukrainel ltolvilebs mTavrobam gauwodos daxmarebis xeli.
– Tqven ratom miiCnieT rom mTavroba ar exmareba?
– imitom, rom CvenTan modian, daxmarebas gvTxoven. sastumros mepatroneebi sTxoven, gavidnen da moZebnon sakuTari saxsrebiT sacxovrebeli binebi, arada, araviTari saSualeba ar aqvT. gasagebia, rom turistuli sezoni iwyeba da pandemiis gamo miRebuli zaralis asanazRaureblad sastumros mflobelebi ver aCereben ltolvilebs. sxva gza unda gamoiZebnos am xalxis dasabinaveblad, radgan maTgan bevrs, araviTari finansuri saSualeba ar gaaCnia, arc kvebis da arc binis qiraobis. Cvens centrSi dReSi 20-25 ojaxi modis, romelic iTxovs produqtebiT daxmarebas. aqedan 10-15 ojaxs Cven yoveldRiurad vaZlevT Ramis gasaTev binas. es procesi ukve Tvenaxevris ganmavlobaSi mimdinareobs. 10 martis Semdeg daiwyo CvenTan momarTvianoba dasaxlebasTan dakavSirebiT. Zalian mZime suraTia, aWaris mTavrobis valdebulebac aris am adamianebis daxmareba.
– doneckis mimarTulebiT brZolis Sesaxeb xom araferi uTqvamT?
– Cveni iq yofnis dros, daiwyo es didi Setakebebi. rusebma xma gaavrceles, TiTqos datoves kievi da gadaisroles Zalebi doneckSi, Tumca, araferi magdagvari ar yofila, maTi dajgufeba sruliad ganadgurebuli iyo da gadarCenili mcire nawili, ukve giTxariT, ki ar gadioda CrdiloeT ukrainidan – garboda, raTa Tavi gadaerCina. jer kidev 16 aprilidan daiwyo es didi Setakebebi da rogorc iqaurebi amboben, warmateba ruseTis jars ar aqvs. Tu axla iaraRsac miawvdian ukrainelebs, vfiqrob, am xalxs veRaraferi SeaCerebs. maTi damarcxeba, praqtikulad, SeuZlebelia. mxolod is awuxebs mTel msoflios, rom mSvidobiani moqalaqeebi iRupebian.
– rogor SeafasebT ukrainis mTavrobis udier momarTvebs Cveni xelisuflebis mimarT?
– igive teqstebiT ratom ar esaubrebian azerbaijans, poloneTs, bulgareTs da sxvebs? adamianebi brZolis velze, frontis wina xazze imyofebian, samkvdro-sasicocxlod ebrZvian borotebis imperias, Cveni premieri ki xmamaRla acxadebs, rom sanqciebs ver SeuerTdeba. bevri sxvac ar SeuerTda sanqciebs, magram amis afiSirebas ar akeTebs. Tanac acxadebs, meore fronts ar gavxsnio. damisaxeleT nebismieri ukraineli an qarTveli politikosi, romelic iTxovdes meore frontis gaxsnas. am sakiTxs sakmaod didi SeTanxmeba da gaanalizeba sWirdeba. rac Seexeba im hipoTetur SesaZleblobas, rom saqarTvelos gaerTianeba moxdes, ra Tqma unda, es varianti unda ganvixiloT, magram ara sazogadoebis, specsamsaxurebis da xelisuflebis maRalCinosnebis doneze. saubari imaze, rom viRac oms apirebs da omi unda, araviTar logikas ar emorCileba. rac Seexeba imas, varT Tu ara mzad davicvaT sakuTari damoukidebloba, es kiTxva legitimuria da mimaCnia, arsebul geostrategiul situaciaSi, swored amaze unda muSaobdes saqarTvelos mTavroba da ar unda Sediodes polemikaSi mebrZol saxelmwifosTan.
