რა ადგილს დაიჭერს საქართველო მსოფლიოს ახალი წესრიგის პირობებში?
äïøï õëèåîòêò 593 50 82 69 –
axals arafers vityvi, Tu aRvniSnav, rom msoflio Tanamegobroba kanonis uzenaesobis dacvasa da demokratiuli reformebis gatarebaSi mxolod dapirebebs didxans ar Seegueba. arc isaa dasamali, rom gza evroatlantikuri struqturebisken warmatebuli qveynis xvedria. swored am mimarTulebiT dasavleTi, meoTxedi saukunea, saqarTvelos xelisuflebebs rCevebs aZlevs da finansuradac exmareba, raTa qveyanaSi stabiluri politikuri garemo da saxarbielo ekonomikuri mdgomareoba iyos, am mxriv xelisuflebas, rogorc viciT, opozicia akritikebs. maTi TqmiT, saqarTvelos arsebuli realoba maTi kritikis marTebulobis argumentia. raa is aspeqtebi da orientiri, romelic uTuod unda davinaxoT, rom progresis gzas davadgeT. amis Taobaze `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erT lider vaJa darCias vesaubreT
– Tavdapirvelad, saqarTvelos Sida politikaze visaubroT, ra TaviseburebebiT xasiaTdeba bolodroindeli periodi?
– saqarTvelos Sida politikaze araerTxel gvisaubria, maT Soris TqvenTan da am mimarTulebiT gansakuTrebuli siaxleebi, Cemi azriT, ar gvaqvs. vxedavT isev maqsimalurad polarizebul mediasivrces da politikur dRis wesrigs, sadac moqalaqeebi sakuTar Tavs ver xedaven, es aris mTavari problema. yvela kvlevaSi Cans, rom sazogadoebas uWirs, ekonomikuri mdgomareoba aris qarTveli xalxis pirveli sazrunavi da dRes, am mimarTulebiT sazogadoeba aris kritikuli, rogorc poziciis, ise opoziciis mimarTac, raSic didwilad veTanxmebi, Tumca imaze, rom Sromisunariani mosaxleobis 20%-ze meti am qveyanaSi umuSevaria, ra Tqma unda, xelisuflebam unda agos pasuxi, imis Tqma, rom opozicia am pirveladi aucileblobis sakiTxebze ar muSaobs, ar mimaCnia sworad, vsaubrob `leloze~, romlis saparlamento gundi sworedac, am sakiTxebze muSaobs. garda amisa, Cvens gunds hyavs sakrebulos 25 wevri sxvadasxva municipalitetSi, romlebic CarTulebi arian problemebis identificirebisa da mogvarebis procesSi, Tumca, rogorc aRvniSne, polarizebuli sivrce am procesebs faravs.
– Tqven ramdenime sakiTxze gaamaxvileT yuradReba da xelisuflebis pasuxismgeblobac axseneT, mmarTveli gundi ki acxadebs, rom opoziciis braldebebi usafuZvloa. . .
– opozicias ar surs situaciis gabuqva, Cven vambobT imas, rac aris. yvela bolodroindelma kvlevam aCvena, rom sazogadoebis umetesoba ibrZvis gadarCenisTvis, aris mZime ekonomikuri foni, am fonze ki inflacia, faqtobrivad, rekordul niSnulzea. larma bolo periodSi mcirediT daiwyo gamyareba, Tumca erTi Tvis win isic rekordulad gaufasurebuli iyo. vxedavT, ra Rirs sawvavi, romelic avtomaturad aZvirebs yovelgvar momsaxurebas. Sesabamisad, ar mgonia xelisuflebis mimarT kritika usafuZvlo iyos, es aris samwuxaro realoba, romlis momgvarebelic unda iyos xelisufleba, Tumca vxedavT, rom am mimarTlebiT procesebi mxolod uaresdeba da dRiTi dRe izrdeba Cveni qveynidan emigraciaSi wasulTa ricxvi.
– ras fiqrobT nika gvaramias dakavebaze?
– arasdros vyofilvar nika gvaramias gulSematkivari, arc misi politikuri warsulis da rogorc JurnalistiTac didad ar viyavi misiT aRfrTovanebuli, Tumca imas, rom mis garSemo mimdinare procesi sruliad politizebulia, mgoni didi politikuri cnobiereba ar sWirdeba. es aris klasikuri magaliTi imisa, Tu rogor cdilobs `qarTuli ocneba~ oponentebis dadumebas, rogoria misi kritikisadmi damokidebuleba, Sesabamisad, amitom vambob, rom misi xelisuflebis pirobebSi warmoudgenelia visaubroT dasavluri tipis demokratiul saxelmwifoze – isini kritikas pasuxoben politizebuli sasamarTloTi, ase cdiloben, rom daadumon kritikosebi. warmoudgenelia 3 wliTa da 6 TviT adamiani daiWiro imisTvis, rom kerZo kompaniis sakuTrebas iyenebda sakuTari interesebisTvis, maSin, roca dRes Cinovnikebis absoluturi umravlesoba biujetis fuls iyenebs da amas TiTqmis yvela saxelmwifo auditis daskvnis safuZvelze vxedavT, cota xnis win, magaliTad, baTumis maJoritarma, batonma konceliZem mobiluri telefoni SeiZina biujetis fuliT, aseve gvaxsovs moqmedi meris saqme sagzao departamentSi, sadac ramdenime milionzea saubari, es yvelaferi cxadyofs imas, rom nika gvaramias dakaveba mxolod politikuri procesia da ara aqvs samarTlebrivi safuZveli.
– mmarTveli partia imasac acxadebs, rom opozicia caitnotSia, rac, maTi TqmiT, gamovlinda Tundac amaswinandel arCevnebze baTumsa da rusTavSi. opoziciam ratom ver SeZlo amomrCevelis arCevnebze miyvana?
– Cveni xelisufleba dRes boroti xelmwifis rolSia, romelic mudmivad opozicias esxmis Tavs da es ase ukve wlebia grZeldeba, imis magivrad, rom saubrobdnen sakuTar warmatebebze, mudam ixseneben warsuls, maTTvis mTavaria mcdari sazogadoebrivi azris Seqmna da araerTxel vnaxeT Tu ra resurss xarjaven amisTvis, iqneba es jibis mediasaSualebebis gamoyenebiT, eqspertebiT, trol-botebiT Tu sxva. Sesabamisad, radgan xelisuflebis mTavari xazi am politikis SenarCunebaa, Znelia visaubroT opoziciaze ase damoukideblad – opoziciis diskreditacia aris am xazis mTavari nawili da rTulia brZola zRva kapitalisa da administraciuli resursis winaaRmdeg, `qarTuli ocneba~ gadasulia xelisuflebis nebismieri gziT SenarCunebaze da es naTlad dadasturda bolo kanoniT, romelic maT parlamentSi daainicires da faqtobrivad, moarges baTumis sakrebulos `qeiss~. xedavT, rom isini baTumis sakrebulos umravlesobasac ki ver Tmoben da yvelafers akeTeben imisTvis, rom cnon batoni ramaz jinWaraZis uflebamosileba.
– amas winaT `airaim~ morigi kvlevis Sedegebi gamoaqveyna: mmarTvel partias 31 procenti uWers mxars, `nacmoZraobas~ – 16, sxva partiebis maCvenebeli umniSvneloa, es risi maniSnebelia?
– siaxle araa is, rom arCevani Cvens qveyanaSi polarizebulia, Tumca 31%-is mxardaWera saxelisuflebo gundisTvis ramdenad kargia, es meore sakiTxia. arcerT demokratiul sazogadoebaSi partia, romelsac aqvs 31%-is mxardaWera, xelisuflebaSi ar iqneboda. swored es aris dRes `qarTuli ocnebis~ amomrCevlis realuri ricxvi, danarCeni ki aris daSinebis, mosyidvis da sxvadasxva manipulaciebis Sedegi da amas TviTonac kargad iazreben. Sesabamisad, am kvlevas sayuradRebod, swored amis gamo miviCnev, is, rom patara partiebi isedac SezRudul populaciaSi mcire procents aiRebdnen, es siaxle araa da yvelam kargad icis.
– dRes TiTqmis yvela aRiarebs, rom opozicia sustia, ra aris amis mizezi da aqve Tanmdevi kiTxva: Tqveni partia ras akeTebs imisTvis, rom orpolusianoba Secvalos, anu qveynaSi Camoyalibdes mZlavri mesame Zala?
– amaze met-naklebad visaubre. dRes opozicia yvelaze metad mravalferovania, rac saqarTveloSi odesme yofila, Sesabamisad, arsebobs sxvadasxva dRis wesrigi da sakiTxebisadmi araerTgvarovani damokidebuleba, rac mTavari winapirobaa demokratiisa. ar SeiZleba amis Seda-reba xelisuflebasTan, romelic dRes, samwuxarod, erTpartiulad marTavs procesebs. Cveni mTavari siZliere swored imaSia, rom viRebT kritikas, radgan vsaubrobT prodasavlurobaze, swored es mimaCnia mTavar dasavlur Rirebulebad – kritikis miReba SegeZlos. gvyavs vice-meri walenjixis municipalitetSi da albaT xedavT, ra procesebi midis iq – gaixsneba musikaluri centri, ufaso aitiskola, municipalitetSi Sedis kapitali, rac gaaCens met SesaZleblobas walenjixelebisTvis, Sesabamisad, es aris is, rasac `lelo~ akeTebs, sadac amis resursi arsebobs. walenjixis garda Cven, rogorc ukve aRvniSne, gvyavs deputati 25 municipalitetSi da yoveldRiurad vcdilobT, visaubroT mosaxleobasTan, davinaxoT arsebuli problemebi da maTi CarTulobiT visaubroT gadaWris gzebze.
– zogierTi opozicioneri Tvlis, rom ivaniSvilis mimarTac amoqmeddes sanqciebi, rac mmarTveli partiis daSlas gamoiwvevs, xolo xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebis TqmiT, es ararealuria, ras fiqrobT?
– sanqciebze saubari `qarTulma ocnebam~ Tavad daiwyo, erTgvari isteria moawyves da aalaparakes yvela, vinc `qarTuli ocnebis~ valSia – vato SaqariSvili Tu sxva. vnaxeT warmoudgeneli gancxadebebi, rom Turme Tu sanqciebi dauwesdeba ivaniSvils, aqciebi moewyoba dasavleTis winaaRmdeg, vnaxeT am aqciebze misvlis msurveli deputatebic, es yvelaferi niSnavs mxolod imas, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ dasavleTs aRiqvams mtrad da ara mokavSired, swored es aris dRes `qarTuli ocnebis~ mTavari problema Tu Segnebuli politikuri xazi, nebismier SemTxvevaSi es ritorika vnebs Cvens dasavlur momavals da saubari dabalansebul politikaze aris mxolod am arCevanis kiTxvis niSnis qveS dayeneba da meti araferi.
– didi diskusiaa gaCaRebuli mesame prezidentis ucxoeTis saavadmyofoSi gadayvana-argadayvanaze. `nacmoZraobam~ mitingebi daaanonsa, Tqveni da partiis azri amis Taobaze?
– Cveni gundi srul ndobas ucxadebs saxalxo damcvelis mier Sekrebil medikosTa jgufs. vTvliT, rom eqimebma unda gadawyviton, ramdenad aucilebelia mixeil saakaSvilis sazRvargareT gadayvana, Tu es asea, ra Tqma unda, xelisufleba valdebulia, es gaakeTos da ar SeiZleba es procesi gadaiqces politikur angariSsworebad, `Tu Wkvianad iqneba, gadaviyvanT~ da msgavsi ritorikiT saubars mxolod araswori gziT mivyavarT. pirobas vdeb, rom Tu igive situaciaSi aRmoCndebian dRevandeli xelisuflebis liderebi, maSinac viqnebi maTi sicocxlis uflebis damcveli, es aris mTavari da ara politikuri Sexedulebebi.
– kvlav ar wydeba sja-baasi parlamentSi opoziciis yofnasTan dakavSirebiT, magaliTad, giga bokeria acxadebs, rom opoziciam unda datovos parlamenti, ras ityviT?
– diax, bolo periodSi isev gaaqtiurda saparlamento boikotis sakiTxic, me vTvli, rom es unda gadawydes SeTanxmebulad, Tu yvela is partia, romelic parlamentSi miSelis dokumentis xelmoweris Semdeg Sevida, datovebs parlaments, es SeiZleba Zalian mniSvnelovani procesebis dasawyisi gaxdes, mniSvnelovania is, rom xelisuflebam dainaxos, ra fasi aqvs sityvis arSesrulebas, magram Tu am sakiTxSi ver SeTanxmdnen xelmomweri partiebi, maSin es iqneba gaTelil gzaze dabruneba.
– arasaparlamento opoziciisgan gansxvavebiT, saparlamento opozicia riggareSe arCevnebis Catarebas aRar iTxovs, rac Salva naTelaSvilis TqmiT, saparlamento opoziciis xelisuflebasTan alianss cxadyofs, Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb?
– Salva naTelaSvilis mxridan ar gvikvirs aseTi radikaluri Sefasebebi, aliansebze saubari am momentSi araseriozulia. riggareSe arCevnebi mniSvnelovani sakiTxia, Tumca mimaCnia, rom am etapze es ver moxdeba, es aris piradad Cemi, rogorc politikiT dainteresebuli moqalaqis azri, metic – vadamdeli arCevnebi `qarTuli ocnebisTvis~ SeiZleba iyos gamosavali teqnikuri kuTxiT, radgan Tu es arCevnebi Catardeba, es moxdeba arsebuli wesiT, rac yovelTvis amartivebs xelisuflebis gamarjvebas, vgulisxmob maJ-oritarul arCevnebs, garda am detalebisa, es aris procesi, romelic unda daiwyos xalxma da ara politikosebma, dRes, samwuxarod, sazogadoebrivi mzaoba am sakiTxis irgvliv ar ikveTeba.
– cxadia, gverds ver avuvliT kompania `borjoms~, xom ar kargavs saqarTvelo am brends? misi dabrunebisTvis ra unda gaakeTos xelisuflebam?
– Cvenma liderebma `borjomi~ aqcies saqarTvelos elCad, produqtad, romelic iyo identobis markeri qarTvelebisTvis, arada, vnaxeT, rom `qarTulma ocnebam~ Cveni liderebis diskreditacia swored am sakiTxiT scada, sazogadoebas kargad axsovs `borjomis~ irgvliv ganviTarebuli movlenebi da racionaluri xelisufleba iTanamSromlebda Cvens liderebTan, Tumca msgavsi sastarto poziciiT, ra Tqma unda, isini gamoricxaven yvelanair TanamSromlobas.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT, ras ityviT evrokavSiris kiTxvarTan dakavSirebiT da aqve Tanmdevi kiTxva: ra aCvena msoflios ukraina-ruseTis omis mesame Tvem?
– `qarTul ocnebas~ msoflioSi mimdinare geopolitikurma procesebma misca Sansi imisa, rom naTlad daanaxos msoflios, romel mxares dgas, Tumca araTu Cveni saerTaSoriso megobrebi, moqalaqeebic ki ver dagvarwmunes imaSi, rom isini namdvilad arian qveynis dasavluri arCevanis erTgulni. mimdinare procesebisadmi im damokidebulebiT, rasac dRes Cveni xelisufleba gamoxatavs, warmoudgenelia, visaubroT xelSesaxeb Sedegze evrointegraciis mimarTulebiT. dRes ukrainaSi mimdinare samxedro danaSaulma daanaxa mTel msoflios, rogoria putinis ruseTi d boroteba, romelic TiTqos yvelam icoda, magram rigi mizezebis gamo ver saubrobdnen amaze, dRes ki civilizebuli samyaro Riad upirispirdeba mas da sabolood aucileblad daamarcxebs kidec.
– yvela msoflio omis Semdeg iqmneba usafrTxoebis axali arqiteqtura, Cvenma qveyanam am axal wesrigSi rom Rirseuli adgili daikavos, xelisuflebam ra nabijebi unda gadadgas?
– es aris dRes erT-erTi mTavari kiTxva Cveni xelisuflebis mimarT, mimaCnda da dRemde vfiqrob, rom saerTaSoriso dRis wesrigSi saqarTvelosa da ukrainis sakiTxi erTad unda damdgariyo da amis realuri Sansic arsebobda, is ki ara, praqtikuladac xorcieldeboda, Tumca Cveni xelisuflebis gaugebarma argaRizi-anebis politikam migviyvana iqamde, rom dRes ukraineli maRalCinosnebi saqarTvelos Sav siaSi myof qveynad moixsenieben, sadac rusebi cdiloben sanqciebis Tavis aridebas. saerTaSoriso sazogadoeba unda davarwmunoT imaSi, rom ukraina ar aris mxolod ukraina da Semdegi SeiZleba Cven viyoT, iseve, rogorc Cvens Semdeg gaxda agresiis samizne ukraina. es unda iyos politikis mTavari xazi da ara is, rom Turme Tu sanqciebs ar SevuerTdebiT da rZes da vaSls gavyidiT ruseTSi, putini Tavs ar dagvesxmeba. ukrainam aCvena msoflios, rom ruseTs ar sWirdeba sababi da mizezi revizionistuli politikisTvis, radgan sabWoTa kavSiris aRdgena aqvs miznad dasaxuli.
– dabolos, kvlav saSinao politikas davubrundeT, pasuxgaucemeli kiTxvebi ramdenad iwvevs sazogadoebis gaRiziane-bas xelisuflebisa da aseve, opoziciisadmi?
– imedgacrueba da nihilizmi swored pasuxgaucemeli kiTxvebis damsaxurebaa. es didwilad, exeba xelisuflebas, Tumca opoziciasac aqvs problema xalxTan komunikaciisa da es samwuxaro mocemulobaa. opozicia unda elaparakos yvelas, gasces kiTxvebs pasuxi, xSirad im kiTxvebsac, romlebze pasuxic xelisuflebas ar aqvs. mudmivi komunikacia da yoveldRiuri ukukavSiri xalxTan aris gamosavali, romelic dRevandeli politikuri dRis wesrigis pirobebSi rTulia, Tumca faqtia, rom am qveyanaSi odesRac unda daiwyos is periodi, roca politika iqneba qvemodan zemoT procesi da ara piriqiT.
