ჟუჟუნა შაინიძე: ყველა შემოქმედი უცხოპლანეტელია
ლაშა ხომერიკი: 593 50 82 69 –
JuJuna SainiZe – bunebisgan mravalmxrivi niWiT dajildoebuli es baTumeli qalbatoni inteleqtiT, erudiciiT, gonierebiTa da sulierebiT gamorCeuli mwerali da mecnieria. mkiTxvels moswons misi leqsebi, prozauli nawarmoebebi, publicisturi werilebi da mecnieruli gamokvlevebi (monografiebi zurab gorgilaZesa da lado seidiSvilze), romlebSic mkiTxvels SesaZlebloba aqvs, kidev erTxel gaiazros da gaiTavisos brZenTagan Tqmuli: `poezia sagrZnobel ars da ara sacnobel~. es azri ufro gagimyardebaT, Tu am intervius gaecnobiT.
– warmatebuli poeti, prozaikosi, publicisti, literaturis mklevari xarT . . . mainc, romel sferos aniWebT upiratesobas, TviTrealizacia sad ukeT SeZeliT?
– upirvelesad, didi madloba interviusTvis. gulwrfelad minda giTxraT, rom me ar/ver miviCnev Tavs warmatebul adamianad, miT umetes, Semoqmedad ara mxolod imitom, rom bunebiT perfeqcionisti var, aramed Tundac imitom, rom sxvadasxva garemoebis gamo, mTlianad ver mivuZRveni Tavi SemoqmedebiT muSaobas. xSirad iseT wvrilmanebs miaqvs udidesi dro da energia, rom aRar xerxdeba CaRrmaveba, koncentrireba, SemoqmedebiTi ganmartoeba Tundac. vfiqrob, TviTrealizacia saerTod ver SevZeli.
– `droni icvlebian da maTTan erTad vicvlebiT Cvenc~ – es laTinuri andaza sul gvaxsenebs Tavs . . . ra Seicvala TqvenSi?
– zogjer maRizianebs sakuTari Tavi, rom ver Sevicvale. ver gavxdi gulgrili, isev ise maSfoTebs yvelaferi umsgavso da uferuli, isev ise gamWvirvaled vkiTxulob adamianTa sulebs, niRbebis SigniT miCqmalul saxeebs da ganwyobilebebs. adamiani erTs rom ambobs da meores fiqrobs, imasac vgrZnob. ufro gamZafrebulad SevigrZnob samyaros uaryofiT vibraciebs da TiTqos daucveli var, mudmivad daucveli am SegrZnebebisgan, ris gamoc metia tkivili da naklebi – sixaruli.
– roca ganvlil gzas gascqeriT . . . anu uyvars suls tivtivi mogonebaTa Soris?
– Zalianac rom gvindodes, warsuls ver wavSliT. vcdilob, mxolod kargi, sasiamovno mogonebebi amovativtivo, sasiamovno ganwyobilebebi gadavitano teqstebSi, magram is maradmoucilebeli sevda, iqneb umizezoc da mizezianic, mainc Jonavs yoveli striqonidan.
– Tqveni monografiebi zurab gorgilaZesa da lado seidiSvilze imdenad sainteresoa, rom mkiTxveli dRiTi dRe matulobs, magram . . . wignebs veRar naxuloben mcire tiraJis gamo. vin unda izrunos maT gamocemaze?
– rTuli kiTxvaa. pasuxi ar maqvs. ufro gulwrfeli viqnebi, Tu vityvi, rom me aRar msurs, vinmes TxovniT mivmarTo, es imdenad did uxerxulobas qmnis. gamosacemi maqvs sxva monografiebic, romlebzec erTdroulad axla vmuSaob, `literaturuli werilebic~, wlobiT rom vwerdi da jerjerobiT erT wignad akinZva ver SevZeli.
– Tqvens bolodroindel poetur krebulebze visaubroT. `gramatika TevzebisaTvis~ gansakuTrebul yuradRebas ipyrobs Tavisi saxismetyvelebiT, saTauris qaragma saCinovdeba leqsebSi. Sinaarsi da forma inovaciuria, STagoneba – uRrmesi . . . Tavad rogor daakvalianebT mkiTxvels?
– `gramatika TevzebisaTvis~ dumilis enis metaforaa. vidre Tevzebi dumilis did saidumloSi Sesaxldebodnen da pirSi wyals Caigubebdnen, CvensaviT iyvnen sityvauxvni – xsovnamdel droSi amodiodnen okeanis siRrmeebidan da mzis Casvlamde kacTa Soris xmamaRla bWobdnen . . . axlandel droSi gawyvetilia kavSiri adamianebsa da Tevzebs Soris. Cven aRar gvesmis dumilis ena. leqsebis am ciklSi dakarguli sixarulisa da silamazis povnas vcdilob. mwams, rom qriste rabia, xolo gza – metaforaa, romelmac dakarguli sulieri silamaze unda gvapovninos.
– `varskvlavebi bgerebis grafikuli niSnebia, miriadi niSnidan mxolod erTSi gacxadda sityvis dabadebis saidumlo~, – ase ambobT. naTelxilvas hgavs.
– samyaro wignia, dawerili faruli niSnebiT. pirveli adami iyo, romelic am niSnebis mixedviT sagnebs saxelebs arqmevda. Cven davkargeT am niSnebis amocnobis unari. Cven aRar gvaqvs pirveladi enis SegrZneba. CvenTvis erTxel gacxadda zeca, romelmac sityvis dabadebis saidumlo gvamcno da ver miviReT is didi naTeli . . . sixaruli ki mxolod sinaTles moaqvs, sibnele usixaruloa. axla samyaro srul sibneleSia. Cven usixarulo epoqaSi vcxovrobT.
– `Cven dRemde sizmrebis enaze vlaparakobT~. mxolod poetebi Tu . . . ?
– ratomRac miiCneven, rom poetebi sizmrebis eniT laparakoben. piriqiT, didi poetebi yovelTvis gamofxizlebisaken, gaRviZebisaken mogviwodeben (`oh, RmerTo, Cemo! sul Zili, Zili . . .~), magram dRemde yvelani sizmrebis eniT vlaparakobT, radgan yvela bgera, romelic Cvenamde aRwevs, im sizmrebis arazusti anareklia, galaqtikis miRma kupriviT Savi mzeebi rom xedaven, oRond xmamaRal sizmrebs. Cveni samyaro im sizmrebis eqoa, aslia, iluziaa. Cven rom am sizmrebidan gamovfxizldeT, sakuTar arsebobas sxva TvaliT SevxedavdiT, sxvanairebi viqnebodiT, Cven ki iluziebSi yofna gvirCevnia da miwier arsebobas vebRauWebiT.
– `am wignSi vyvebi Seni yofnis ucnaur ambavs~ – werT krebulis anotaciaSi. leqsebis lirikuli gmiris monologebi amaSi gvarwmunebs. am wigns gamgebi, inteleqtualuri mkiTxveli sWirdeba . . . samwuxarod, CvenSi gadamkiTxvelebi sWarboben.
– poetisaTvis erTi mkiTxvelic ki didi bednierebaa, romelic ise aRiqvams `metyveli subieqtis~ gzavnils, rogorc es adresats hqonda Cafiqrebuli. magram poezia iseTi mouxelTebeli fenomenia, zogjer poetsac ar esmis sakuTari naTqvamis mniSvneloba, an ise didia `intencialuri cdomileba~ nagulisxmevsa da naTqvams Soris, erTi ginda Tqva da sxva gamodis. ase rom, poeziis interpretireba Zalze rTulia. umjobesia, esTetikur siamovnebaze gadavitanoT aqcenti, magram realurad, ai, ra xdeba – mkiTxvelTa garkveul nawils yvela sityva Tu fraza pirdapir esmis an uSualod avtoris pirad cxovrebas ukavSirebs, `lirikuli me~ ki xSirad warmosaxuls `gviyveba~ da ara realurs.
– `veravin miuaxlovdeba Cems leqsebs, vinc daJinebiT moindomebs ganixilos isini~ – ase ambobda uolt uitmeni. cxadia, mxolod Tavis `balaxis foTlebs~ ar gulisxmobda… axla rogorc pedagogsa da literaturaTmcodnes gekiTxebiT: poetis gasagebad da SegrZnebisaTvis umTavresi ra aris da rogor unda amaRldes axalgazrdebis, saerTod, mkiTxvelis gemovneba?
– diax, es kiTxva uSualod ukavSirdeba poeziis gagebis Tu vergagebis an gagebis SeuZleblobis problemas. poetisa da mkiTxvelis Sexvedra emociur velSi unda moxdes da ara logikur gaazrebaSi. gancda da Tanagancda, leqsis mTlianobis esTetikuri aRqma aris mTavari. leqsi Cveulebrivi teqsti ar aris, rom gaaSinaarso. misi arseba arc furcelzea, arc asoniSnebSia da arc calkeul frazebSi, leqsi emociuri muxtia, energiaa da Tu aRmqmels aqvs misi miRebis, Sesrutvis unari, daimuxteba am saocari ZaliT, Tu arada `gaugebari~ darCeba.
– Tqvenma saiubileo poeturma krebulma `vin-me ara-vin~ mravalTa mowoneba daimsaxura. es Tavisufali adamianis ganacxadia lirikul mozaikaSi, me ase aRviqvi, Tavad ras ityviT?
– rom mkiTxoT, vin aris es `vin-me ara-vin~, ver agixsniT. is aris da arc aris, yvelafericaa da araferic, saCinoc aris da uCinaric. ver vxedav da vgrZnob, rom aris. man Semacnobina Sinagani Tavisufleba, poeturi Tavisufleba, Cemi warmosaxuli mec misiTaa savse da es maZlebinebs am gausaZlis yofaSi. gansxvavebuli stilic da leqsis arqiteqtonikac man moitana. amave dros am wignSi vertikaluri svlebi metia, vidre horizontaluri. ver vityvi, rom am cdam srulyofileba Semata Cems saTqmels, magram yoveli cda saqmis naxevaria.
– amave krebulSi Tqvens mcire poemaSi `cxad-sizmrisa~ galaktionis TvaliT danaxul mzesa da baTumur wvimas ucxo, irealuri SaravandediT mosavT . . . galaktioni cocxldeba . . . am ciklis gagrZelebas xom ar apirebT?
– es poema wlebis win Seqmnili leqsis (`mRvrie sizmari~) gagrZelebaa. mis Sesaxeb batonma soso siguam gazeT `literaturul saqarTveloSi~ gamoqveynebul statiaSi aRniSna, rom `teqnika kargia, magram galaktionis xmaao~. aman STamagona `galaktionis xmiT~ mesaubra am poemaSi da misi TvaliT nanaxi samyaro warmomesaxa. ase gadavedi realuridan irealur samyaroSi da Seiqmna legenda galaktionze.
– `netavi~ romel yvavilnarSi ganvmeordebi, amovizrdebi romel yvavilad? Tqveni lirikuli gmiris es fiqri sicocxlis siyvaruls aZlierebs, anu yvavilis mSveniereba aRviZebs sikeTes, xom?
– diax. adreul bavSvobaSi, yvavilebs vesaubrebodi da mosawyvetad ver vimetebdi. pirveli leqsebic yvavilebze davwere. yvavilebiani mindori varskvlaviani cis analogiaao, ambobs erTi mecnieri. marTlacda, caze varskvlavebisa da miwaze yvavilebis gareSe, warmoidgineT, ra bneli iqneboda samyaro. mzec xom didi varskvlavia, varskvlavyvavili. iqneb yvavilebTan saubris unaric davkargeT, aRar/veRar gvaxarebs maTi silamaze?! es kiTxvac silamaziT, sikeTiT, yvavilebiTa da mziT aRtacebis, maTTan saubris idumali gancdis dabrunebis survilia. mxolod im yvavilad ganmeorebas vinatrebdi, romelic sikeTisaken Semoabrunebs kacobriobas.
– buneba yvelaze didi poetia, ara?
– makro da mikrosamyaroebi erTnairi konstruqtebia. Cven vbaZavT makrosamyaros, massaviT vRelavT, vSfoTavT, mdinareebad gantotvili sisxlZarRvebiT vxazavT did da mcire wreebs, avi dariviT vmrisxanebT da mzesaviT gamovidarebT, magram buneba am yvelafers imdenad didi ostatobiT, imdenad ucdomeli kanonzomierebiT akeTebs, rom Tavis pirvandel saxes ar kargavs, `mainc ki lamazi aris, mainc siturfiT hyvavisa!~, RvTis saxedakarguli adamiani ki aRar aris lamazi. es unda viswavloT bunebisagan
– cifruli revolucia, teqnikuri progresi da literatura, rogor gesaxebaT momavali am kuTxiT?
– civilizacia da kultura xSirad urTierTsawinaaRmdego cnebebia, magram rogorc garsia markesi aRniSnavs, adre, xeliT sabeWd manqanaze rom vwvalobdiT, axla gacilebiT ukeT gadagvaqvs eleqtronul, cifrul samyaroSi Cveni naazrevi. Tu teqnikur progress kulturis ganviTarebis sasargeblod gamoiyeneb, amaSi ra aris cudi, magram Tu informaciis okeaneSi mxatvruli sityva zedmet warmonaqmnad CavTvaleT (risi niSnebic aris), maSin? . . magram me mainc mwams, rom adamians Zalian gauWirdeba mxatvruli sityvis gareSe, gamocarieldeba, gamoifiteba da moinatrebs.
– warmoidgineT, rom ucxoplaneteli xarT, Tqveni gzavnili – dedamiwelebs.
– me isedac mimaCnia, rom yvela Semoqmedi ucxoplanetelia, ucxoa, miuRebelia, sxvaa Tavisi drois, epoqis cxovrebisaTvis. xolo yoveli ucxo Tvali ukeT xedavs kacTa modgmis mankierebebs. Cemi gzavnilia: adamianebo, xeli CahkideT erTmaneTs da gadaarCineT kacobrioba! nurasodes daiviwyebT: `odesRac mamam yvavilebiT moCiTul velze, sizmris mindorSi rom xatad Tvisad . . . ra lamazi xar Sen am xsovniT, adamiano!~.
– rogor gesaxebaT momavlis saqarTvelo, baTumi?
– momavlis saqarTvelo maSin Sedgeba, roca Cven sizmrebis eniT aRar vilaparakebT, roca Tavs davaRwevT iluziebs da realobas pirdapir CavxedavT TvalebSi. `ra cotas niSnavs, davibade saqarTveloSi, saqarTvelosTvis davibade, umTavresia~. rac Seexeba baTums, me Zveli baTumi menatreba. axla mgonia, rom ucxo qalaqSi davdivar da `sxva xalxis ismis aq Jriamuli~ . . .
– `am wigns vwer Senze, vinc gabede am jambaz droSi, ara ubralod arseboba, aramed yofna~ – es amonaridia Tqveni leqsidan, SeiZleba iTqvas, literaturuli manifestia. savaraudod, albaT momaval wignebSic gansxeuldeba es suliskveTeba?
– diax. es fraza Cemi cxovrebis mTavar princips gamoxatavs: adamiani yovelTvis unda dadges droze maRla . . .
– modiT, leqsiT daasruleT es interviu . . .
– maSin, barem im leqsiT davasruloT es dialogi, romelSic grZeldeba droze maRla dadgomis suliskveTeba.
sali kldisaTvis
`risTvis arian saWiro poetebi arSemdgar droSi~
holderlini
daRdasmulia es epoqa gonis
sibneliT,
da gulic xrColavs sibnelis
daRiT,
samagierod, CaxCaxebs WaRi,
samagierod, zimzimebs daxli,
zimzimebs daxli da izniqeba,
zimzimebs daxli da izriqneba,
gazizinebul-gazinTuli
tkbili SxamebiT.
daxlad qceulo kacobriobav,
riT gamokvebav gaZvalebul, damSeul sulebs?!
ra saWiroa poezia arSemdgar
droSi . . .
mTvaris
jurRmulebSi
C
a
k
a
r
guli
ymuilia
Cveni sityvebi . . .
mwuxarebaTa
Z
e
g
l
e
b
ia
Cveni leqsebi . . .
ra saWiroa poezia arSemdgar
droSi . . .
ar Semdgaria dro yvela droSi,
sul erTnairad msrbolavia
luwi da kenti,
miiflexveba, miimxleva gzebi
rioSi,
miWixvineben kentavrebi,
lagamebs kvneten,
Rrma ZiliT sZinavT namdvil
vefxvebs da namdvil lomebs,
vis moswrebia dro Semdgari an
mefes romels
ar edga mxrebze qvis borbali,
bediviT mrume,
arc romSi midis yvela gza da
arc axal romebs
ar eRirsebaT warmarTuli
yiJinis grgvinva
cas miawvdinon, radgan caSi
axla RmerTia,
romelmac ivno da romelmac
macnoba, vin var,
romelsac Cemad ufalad da
patronad vuxmev,
Tavis ufleba vinc mommadla,
maswavla vinac,
ar SeudgeTo kvlav monobis
sazarel uRels.
ra saWiroa poezia arSemdgar
droSi . . .
magram, Sexede, aq miwaze xdeba
sxvagvarad,
Caxede ufskruls, Sav
ufskrulebs Cahyefe Tvali,
Rrma aris wyali da arc iklebs
da arc ifonebs,
tartarosebSi, aleqtosTan da
sxvebTan erTad,
isev Rmuian megera da is
tisifone,
romelTa sunTqvac savsea SxamiT
da sulSi Rame, kupriani,
Savbneli Rame,
arc gaTendeba arasodes,
Tu ar iyivle,
Tu ar iRmuvle,
ar iymuvle,
ar iRriale,
Tu ar dadeqi droze maRla,
ufskrulze maRla,
Savbneli wyali Savbnel kuprSi
CagiTrevs vidre.
ra saWiroa poezia arSemdgar
droSi . . .
vnaxe am diliT, mze Semodga
karCxalis Tavze
da mzekabani gadahfina kaxabris
mindvrebs.
yvela droSi, yvela adamiani
poetia,
vinc iswrafvis sinaTlisaken.
radgan maradiulia `fakundos~
kiTxva:
`barbarosoba Tu
civilizacia?~
kultura Tu gamoqvabuli?
kbili kbilis wil,
Tu miteveba da sinanuli?
arSemdgaria dro yovel droSi,
miedineba zaTqiT,
ngreviT,
aurzauriT,
da Tu ar dadeq droze maRla,
ufskrulze maRla,
igi yovelTvis daRs dagasvams
Tavisi niSniT:
aTive TiTze wamogacvams
dacemis beWeds.