როცა იცი, ვისი გორისა ხარ…
oTar cinariZe 27 48 93 –
meri diasamiZe istoriul sofel zendididanaa. igi rusuli enisa da literaturis maswavlebeli iyo. mandaturadac imuSava. axla TurqeTis respublikis qalaq stambolSi beikoz-baTumis qarTuli asociaciis bazaze arsebul dedaenis sakvirao skolaSi 35 msmenels qarTul enas aswavlis. meri `aWaris~ stumaria.
– qalbatono meri,zendideli da gulebeli diasamiZeebis roli aWaris istoriaSi gamorCeulia. agrZelebT winaprebis saqmeebs?
– saqarTvelos istoriaSi Cemi winaprebis Rvawli kargad vici, wavikiTxe uamravi istoriuli dokumenti amis Taobaze. profesor biWiko diasamiZisgan movismine saintereso ambebi. gvarSi sami patriarqi gvyavda, es cota namdvilad araa. diasamiZeebi yovelTvis idgnen samSoblos sadarajoze, usamarTlobas ebrZodnen. mevlud diasamiZis cxovreba amis naTeli magaliTia. roca ici, visi gorisa xar, es didi pasuxismgeblobaa, yovelTvis cdilob, ise icxovro, araferi SegeSalos. uflis wyalobiT vaxerxeb, Tumca uneblie Secdomebsac vuSvebT mokvdavebi da kargi saqmiT unda gamovasworoT. Zalian minda, Cemi gvaris kargi Svilis saxeliT davtovo es wuTisofeli.
– gulebis karibWesTan xaraCoebs ixsnis wminda evdemoz diasamiZis saxelobis taZari. . .
– gulebis wminda evdemozis (diasamiZe) saxelobis mSenebare taZari, romlis samSeneblo Stabis wevric var, Cemi cxovrebis yvelaze mniSvnelovani nawilia. wlebis win dawyebuli mSenebloba dasasruls uaxlovdeba. Cemi gvaris sasaxelo adamianebTan erTad da megobrebis Semowiruli TanxebiT, male kidev erTi RvTis saxli Seemateba Cvens samSoblos, Tanac iseT adgilas, sadac yvela adamians SeeZleba Sevla, sanTlis danTeba da molocva. Cemi Semosavlidan garkveul Tanxas vricxav taZris mSeneblobis fondSi. minda visargeblo SemTxveviT da yvela im adamians, vinc miiRo monawileoba mSeneblobaSi, didi madloba gadavuxado.
– ojaxs adreul asakSi moekideT. 33 wlisam umaRlesi saswavlebeli daamTavreT. rusuli enisa da literaturis maswavleblad imuSaveT. ra iyo mizezi, pedagogobas mandaturoba rom amjobineT?
– adre Sevqmeni ojaxi, mamas gulis problemebi Seeqmna da Zalian undoda, erTi Svilis bednierebas mainc moswreboda, Cemi ocneba – Camebarebina universitetSi, gverdze gadavde da ojaxs movekide. mudam vfiqrobdi, rom mamis gaxarebisTvis ufali aucileblad damexmareboda da ocnebasac avixdendi. ase aRmovCndi ukve ori vaJis deda universitetSi. xuTi wlis Semdeg momeniWa magistris diplomi filologis, rusuli enisa da literaturis maswavleblis kvalifikaciiT. 4 weli vimuSave vaxuSti bagrationis saxelobis mravaldargobriv kolejSi pedagogad, aseve, kuratorad. 2006 wlidan sasamarTlo sistemaSi mandaturis samsaxuri Camoyalibda. pedagogiuri gamocdileba xels miwyobda, konkursSi mimeRo monawileoba. policiis forma yovelTvis mizidavda da Sansi meZleoda, uniforma momergo. ase Cavanacvle pedagogoba mandaturobiT. 8 weli vemsaxure saqarTvelos sasamarTlo sistemasa da sazogadoebas. dasavleT saqarTveloSi pirveli qali mandaturi aRmovCndi. madloba minda gadavuxado saqarTvelos antikorufciuli palatis Tavmjdomares, baton paata SavaZes, romelmac patiosnebisa da kanonmorCilebis sigeliT damajildova, aseve, sasamarTlos Tavmjdomareebs – madlobis sigelebisTvis.
– sruliad SemTxveviT aRmoCndiT stambolis prestiJul ubanSi. . .
– 2013 wels wavedi TurqeTis respublikaSi. movikiTxe da movZebne iqauri qarTvelebi. gavicani isini da maTTan urTierTobebi Camovayalibe, veswrebodi yvela RonisZiebas, rasac isini awyobdnen. dReisTvis TurqeTSi arsebul TiTqmis yvela saTvistomos vicnob, vTanamSromlob da vstumrob kidec qarTuli saCuqrebiT xeldamSvenebuli.
– raa mTavari, rom ucxoeTSi myofma qarTvelma erovnuli suliskveTeba SeinarCunos, sxvas gverdiT daudges?
– saamisod yvela nabiji unda gaTvalo. pativi unda sce im qveynis wesebs, sadac imyofebi. Tuki SegeSala, veRar daibruneb pativiscemas da arc Sen gverdiT dgomas miiReben, es ise gamoCndeba, rogorc TeTr qaRalze – Savi laqa, romlis moSoreba ukvalod SeuZlebelia.
– ramdenime welia, dedaenis sakvirao kursebs uZRvebiT. rogoria msmenelebis damokidebuleba?
– ukve xuTi welia, beikozis raionis dedaenis sakvirao kursebis maswavlebeli var. qarTuli wera-kiTxvis Seswavlis survili didia da es Zalian maxarebs. stambolSi ramdenime adgilas aris kursebi gaxsnili. ixsneba sxva raionebsa da qalaqebSic. sul axlaxans gaixsna orxangazSi, sadac 60 moswavlea. es ukve didi warmatebaa. Zalian minda, dRemde motanili ena ar daikargos da yvela regionSi gaixsnas kursebi. mTavari am saqmeSi axalgazrdobis CarTulobaa, rac unda SevZloT.
– yvelafers gasamrjelos gareSe akeTebT. qarTuli diaspora, asociaciebi muSaobas rogor gifaseben?
– Zalian bednieri var, rom gasamrjeloze uari vTqvi, oRond iqarTvelon, ra kargia, rom `ar gadagvqarTulda~ (poet mzia salvariZis sityvebs davisesxeb) dRemde da me ra Semazarebs, usasyidlod movemsaxuro maT. Tumca ramdenad swori gadawyvetilebaa, ar vici. erTxel vTqvi da azrs aRar Sevicvli, aseTi var. rac Seexeba dafasebas, mxolod erTs vityvi: iq maswavlebels ise afaseben, rogorc prezidents. sadme rom Sedixar da darbazi RimiliT fexze dgeba, es sakmarisia, iyo bednieri.
– im qvelmoqmedebazec gviTxariT, rasac mSobliur qedasa da qveynis sxva kuTxeebSi eweviT. . .
– roca sikeTes uangarod akeTeb, ufali mudam gverdiT gidgas. vcdilob, gavaxaro isini, visac es sWirdeba an waadgeba. gakeTebul sikeTeze ar visaubreb. vecdebi, sazRvris orive mxares Tanabrad gavanawilo siTbo, siyvaruli da mxardaWera. 2021 wlidan `sapatio qedelis~ wodeba momeniWa, madloba Cemi raionis yvela mkvidrs. es mets mavaldebulebs da mec mudam ZiebaSi var, riTi davudge raions gverdiT.
– ojaxs – meuRles, Svilebs daxmarebis xels uwvdiT. or frontze giwevT muSaoba. ase saqmianobas ra dromde apirebT?
– ojaxi yvelaze wmindaa CemTvis. vicav tradiciebs. minda SviliSvilebi, SvilebiviT sikeTiT savse adamianebad gaizardon. madloba ufals, dRemde ase movediT. albaT pensiaSi gasvlamde vimuSaveb, rom gamovadge ojaxsa da qveyanas. Semdeg ki bednieri siberiT davtkbebi.
– qarTveli yvelgan qarTvelobs. rogoria stamboleli qarTvelebis damokidebuleba erisa da qveynis tradiciebisadmi?
– stambolis (da aramarto stambolis) qarTveloba ise qarTvelobs, netavi ase vqarTvelobdeT aq. arsad ikrZaleba qarTuli kulturuli saqmianoba. es didi miRwevaa. yovelwliurad aRniSnaven saqarTvelos damoukideblobis, dedaenisa Tu sxva mniSvnelovan dReebs. iq yvelgan qarTuli droSiT davdivar da amis gamo problema arsad Semqmnia. gaxsnilia qarTuli kafeebi da qarTul samzareulos popularizacia eweva – uyvarT qarTuli kerZebi. am bolo dros momravlda turebi saqarTveloSi, amas xeli Seuwyo qarTuli literaturis Targmanebma, romelSic aRwerilia Cveni kultura da cxovreba. madlieri var im 9 wlis da male wignsac ixilavT `stambolis stumris mogonebebi~, sadac saintereso ambebTan erTad iqneba fotomasala Cems saqmianobaze TurqeTis respublikaSi.
– ra dros atarebT saqarTveloSi?
– yovel sam TveSi erTxel erTi kviriT mainc Camovdivar, pandemiis periods Tu gamovaklebT. axla zafxulis gatareba aq gadavwyvite, erTi kvira Zalian cotaa. minda movisiyvarulo samSoblo, ojaxi.
– yvelaze metad vin da ra genatrebaT?
– SviliSvilebi menatreba yvelaze metad. roca mesmoda, maTi siyvaruli Svilebis siyvaruls gadafaravso, ar vijerebdi. marTali yofila. rac Seexeba imas, Tu ra menatreba: fxaleulis asorti da cxeli mWadi. roca Camovdivar, yvelgan asorts vukveTav xolme.
– amas winaT aWaris mweralTa saxlSi gamarTul RonisZiebaze sityviT gamoxvediT.
– im RonisZiebaze batonma daviT TedoraZem ise Seafasa Cemi saqmianoba, rom irgvliv mimovixede, visze laparakobs-meTqi. bednierebaa amis mosmena, madlobis meti ra meTqmis, magram isev gavimeoreb – Cemi saqmianoba mokrZalebulia im adamianebis saqmianobasTan SedarebiT, romlebic wlebia emsaxurebian qarTuli kulturis aRorZinebas ucxoeTSi. zogjer merideba kidec, roca Cemze vinme saubrobs. didi emociebiT gamovedi RonisZiebidan. erTi kia – sazogadoeba CemTvis yvelaferia. mis gareSe ver viarsebeb da yvela jildoze win vayeneb sazogadoebis siyvaruls.
– mamulis, enis, mrwamsis siyvaruls da erTgulebas rogor axerxebT ucxoeTSi?
– mudam vcdilob, Cemi lamazi saqmeebiT vuerTgulo maT. Zalian rTulia marTlac, magram Tuki siyvaruliT da uflis saxeliT wamoiwyeb saqmes, yvelaferi gamogiva. iq, mxolod sakuTar Tavs ar ekuTvni, im qveynis saxe xar, saidanac Camoxvedi. ase rom, yvela nabiji unda gaTvalo, raTa ar Searcxvino samSoblo, gvari da ojaxi.
– stambolSi prestiJuli ojaxis wevrad iTvlebiT. raa mTavari ojaxis simtkicisTvis?
– radganac gasamrjelos arsad viReb, sadme unda memuSava, rom mecxovra ucxoeTSi. amitom erTi Zalian cnobili da warmatebuli ojaxis wevrad viTvlebi wlebia. ojaxSi yvela iuristia da mivaRwie imasac, rom Cemi dafasebiT isini Cems samSoblosac afaseben, es ki cota araa.
– win didi gza gaqvT. isev ucxoeTSi gaagrZelebT muSaobas Tu. .
– sakmaod rTulia pasuxis gacema. ra Tqma unda, minda davbrunde samSobloSi. aqac SevZleb raime sasargeblos gakeTebas, magram dedaenis kursebis mitoveba miWirs, vfiqrob, pensiamde darCenili dro kvlav am saqmes movaxmaro.
– mizani yovelTvis amarTlebs?
– ki, Tu sworad dagegmav.
– ucxoeTSi ra barierebis daZleva mogixdaT?
– cxovrebas yovelTvis axlavs raRac problemebi. ver veguebi usamarTlobas, araswor saqmes, tyuilebs. albaT, es genetikurad maqvs, zogjer amis gamo miwevs axsna-ganmarteba. sul esaa, am cxra wlis ganmavlobaSi seriozuli ram ar SemmTxvevia, ufals madloba.
– vis TvliT idealur qalad?
– albaT dedas. me mas vgavar. is sazogadoebis samsaxurSi iyo yovelTvis. yvelas gverdiT edga. bevris atana SeeZlo. erTnairad daiRleboda bavSvisTvisac da didisTvisac.
– gvarSi vis Tanadgomas gaixsenebT?
– profesor biWiko diasamiZis, rusudan diasamiZis, rezo diasamiZis, mixeil (miSa) diasamiZis, neriman diasamiZis… diasamiZeTa sagvareulo kavSiris gamgeobis yvela wevris. me isini maZlierebdnen, meimedebodnen da maxsenebdnen, rom diasamiZis qali viyavi, es ki bevrs mavaldebulebda.
– eklesiaSi sanTlebs visTvis anTebT?
– eklesiaSi pirvel sanTels Cvens saqarTvelos vunTeb, mere – gvars, ojaxs da aucileblad stambolis im lamaz ojaxs, sadac 9 welia daculad vcxovrob da romelic Cems samSoblos bevrjer daudga gverdiT.
– madloba saintereso saubrisTvis.
– madloba gazeT `aWaras~, rom dainteresdiT Cemi saqmianobiT.

